Increased threat posed by zombies...

[Sheepdog (DayZ) 14]

EDIT: New ideas as of 6/8 - please read entirely.

Positive Effects of Increased Zombie Threat

I was thinking earlier about potential ways to improve the DayZ SA in terms of trying to get less people KOSing and more people working together again.

Soooo...One idea I keep coming back to is that a great way to accomplish this would be by providing more incentives to group with other players, rather than simply trying to decentivize the act killing other players. One way to do this could be is by increasing the threat posed by zombies. For example, in the current system zombies are kind of a joke and provide little threat to no threat for an experienced player. But if you were to increase the effectiveness of those zombies in terms of their potential lethality (not necessarily harder hitting just - "smarter" and with better pathing) , you would make it considerably harder (and in some instance very likely impossible) for a single player to clear or search a sizable town/building group by himself. Therefore making it highly beneficial to group with other people in order to gather loot where solo players could not. It would also just make being by yourself a lot scarier and harder to manage if the zombies were more dangerous. Most importantly though, you wouldn't want to engage someone in combat unless you had to because the noise would (hopefully) attract any nearby zombies towards you. With improved zombies there would be no way to fight a player while simultaneously trying to stave off a group of zombies and make you considerably more concerned about whether engaging another player is really worth wasting ammo that you now genuinely need to defend yourself from the zombies

Thoughts?

DISCLAIMER: This is just one bored mans opinion. Just because I disagree with an idea or two, or have a suggestion of my own does not mean that I am bashing or hating on the game we are all so anxiously awaiting. Please only respond if you have something constructive to add.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Sheepdog

[Beck (DayZ) 1768]

It is very difficult for the developers to make the zombies "smarter" on the Arma 2 engine. One thing they showed in one of the development videos, was the new pathfinding system in stand alone, you will no longer have zombies running past you to reach a location you stood a few seconds ago. At this point, they only thing they can do to make the zombies pose more of a threat would be to increase the damage.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Beck

[Sheepdog (DayZ) 14]

Well I was under the impression they are now using a "modified" version of the Real Virtuality 3 engine. But whatever they are using, its clear from the footage we have seen so far that it is not the same engine we have all been used to. Or maybe it is and i'm just talking out of my ass. Regardless, perhaps the limitations we saw within the current form of DayZ aren't relate to the engine itself but rather the limitations from working within a simple mod? Iono

Edited June 8, 2013 by Sheepdog

[spinager 152]

I like the idea of the "hold key" to raise the weapon.

[methr1k2dop3 323]

from what i gather from official posts about the SA they are improving zombie pathing.

[Sheepdog (DayZ) 14]

from what i gather from official posts about the SA they are improving zombie pathing.

Yeah, there is a video on the devblog showing the improved pathing. Its a definite and welcome improvement but pathing is only part of the problem. But I feel like i'm coming across as overly critical right now and it's too late for me to articulate any sort of coherent and constructive response. So I guess i'll just say -

"IN ROCKET WE TRUST".

Edited June 8, 2013 by Sheepdog

[methr1k2dop3 323]

Yeah, there is a video on the devblog showing the improved pathing. Its a definite and welcome improvement but pathing is only part of the problem. But I feel like i'm coming across as overly critical right now and it's too late for me to articulate any sort of coherent and constructive response. So I guess i'll just say -

"IN ROCKET WE TRUST".

lol.

i can finally shoot zombies outside.

usually i kite into building before i kill.

rarely i kill zombies outside unless i know i can down them before they start buggin out

Edited June 8, 2013 by methr1k2dop3

[mat9813004 8]

By the way, evoking "In rocket we trust" as a slogan is somewhat of a straw man fallacy, as this is the internet after all and you cannot please every one. So this misrepresentation will lead/ provoke eventually to personal attacks when someones personal vision of what DayZ should be is not satisfied.

[methr1k2dop3 323]

Id like to see zombies chasing somebody into a building and if you close the door they can't open it but stay at door until something aggros them off!

might bring a whole new way to be a hero!

save someone thats trapped on top of a building or stuck in a house running low on food

Edited June 8, 2013 by methr1k2dop3

[Sheepdog (DayZ) 14]

By the way, evoking "In rocket we trust" as a slogan is somewhat of a straw man fallacy, as this is the internet after all and you cannot please every one. So this misrepresentation will lead/ provoke eventually to personal attacks when someones personal vision of what DayZ should be is not satisfied.

I guess...my bad? I thought it was pretty obvious I was just making a light hearted comment trying to reflect my support. Maybe I just should've said "I" trust Rocket to make a good standalone game based on something he created in the first place. Thanks for your constructive feedback though.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Sheepdog

[whatsmynameagain 31]

It will wind up like borderlands. When you end your friends find awesome loot, you start killing each other for it.

[Sheepdog (DayZ) 14]

Not if you can't survive alone. Or if you didn't have enough ammo to kill your "friends" and the herd of improved zombies that now pose a serious threat to you. Or if there are benefits/perks you can reap from staying together that you otherwise wouldn't be able to obtain.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Sheepdog

[Quartermaine 34]

I don't see how harder/more intelligent zombies will increase the rate of strangers teaming up.

As with any suggestion that penalises solo players and forces co-operation, I am against it.

[Sheepdog (DayZ) 14]

As with any suggestion that penalises solo players and forces co-operation, I am against it.

Thanks for the feedback. I honestly had completely forgotten about what kind of impact this would have on someone who preferred to play alone, as many DayZ gamers do. Hmmm

Although being focused entirely on solo play, would you be opposed to an improved version of the zombie that would translate into a much more threatening and serious opponent? I guess i'm asking because in its current form the zombies honestly pose little to no challenge for someone who knows what they're doing. Very easy to dodge, escape, and not to mention exploit. So this new change would not provide a penalization to solo players as you suggest, but rather make the zombies much harder to deal with. So is it just the scavenging and survival aspect of the game you like? I'm asking because i'm trying to understand why you would be opposed to the change. Or is it not that you would be necessarily opposed to the new zombie threat itself but rather that you would be upset by the fact that that groups of players now have an advantage over you in certain scenarios? If thats the case think about this - someone in real life living alone in the woods and not having to deal with "bandits" would more than likely survive a lot long. But there are going to be a number of things this person cant do by themselves - it just a trade off.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Sheepdog

[Quartermaine 34]

Thanks for the feedback. I honestly had completely forgotten about what kind of impact this would have on someone who preferred to play alone, as many DayZ gamers do. Hmmm

OK, so at the moment, zombies are a minor problem. I agree.

The biggest issue with the mod is the ability to effectively deal with zombies.

Now the best example of an efficient AI zombie combat system is the normal (expert difficulty) zombies in the L4D series. In this game, 1 zombie? No problem. 5 zombies, an issue. 5+ if you're alone, you're gonna have a bad time.

Having harder zombies only fixes part of the problem. We ideally need a shove/mellee mechanism to silent(ishly) deal with them. Although I agree that some areas should have a higher concerntration of zombies, which greatly encourages team work in that area.

For example, if I agro zombies, should I automatically be handed a death sentence because 1 heard me and called his zombies buddies? What about if I run out of ammo and I'm trapped inside by a zombie in the doorway?

I dislike the solo penalty because I don't want to be forced to play only when my buddies are online (we have sometime differering schedules and other games).

Anything that involves other players concerns me not. If I'm playing solo I'll adjust my tactics accordingly, thus somewhat negating the effect of "bandit groups".

I hope that answers your well thought out reply, let me know if you need more clarification.

[Sheepdog (DayZ) 14]

Good questions Quartermarine.

I guess I didn't really explain the sort of "vision" that I had in mind when talking about increasing the threat provided by the zombies. What I was thinking was not necessarily that its hard to survive against just the zombies themselves - meaning that you could almost always simply turn and run away to survive. But making them enough of a threat so that you couldn't expect to run into a town full of them and come out with any loot unless you killed them all first. Essentially just making scavenging certain area's far more challenging than it currently is or even impossible in some circumstances depending on your group size/gear/ammo/ etc. This would also mean that you would think twice before shooting at another player (or anything for that matter) while there are zombies in the area. Basically upgrading them from the joke that they currently are, but not to the extent of say Left 4 Dead. Somewhere in the middle.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Sheepdog

[Sutinen 635]

Making them run indoors is a big improvement. You wont see any unarmed people running trough Cherno unless they want to die. Sneaking past zombies will actually have more advantages. Currently it's just to keep low profile and avoid getting spotted by other players.

[Fun With Flares 72]

>go into tiny-ass town

>50,000 zombies

>kite like a man

>run like hell and pray for a big barn/warehouse

>none

>mfw

Edited June 10, 2013 by Fun With Flares