Civilian grade armory

[J0hnm13 15]

http://world.guns.ru...7/uzi-mini2.jpg

A non sidearm version of the Uzi. Basically a cloned MP5 with more recoil, more noise, and a tad less accuracy. Categorized as a primary, mainly used to give fresher spawned coast dwellers more firepower since 9mm is still such a low damage round in DayZ. Found in civilian and military loot tables.

Shares ammo with PDW, MP5, doesn't accept G17 or M9 mags.

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http://www.thefirear...sin-pistol.jpeg

Obrez Pistol, basically a saw'd off Mosin Nagant. Accuracy is low, about half the cone of the spread of shotgun pellets, with high damage and low attack speed. Categorized as a sidearm. Found in farm and civilian loot tables.

_________

Sawed off shotgun: Less damage per shot and way less accuracy than regular shotguns. 2 round slugs/pellets interchangeable from sidearm to primary ammo (add a right click and click "move to sidearm ammo pocket" or vice versa) for the normal double-barrel. Categorized as a sidearm. Found in farm loot tables.

_______

http://world.guns.ru...mg26/sa61-1.jpg

Skorpion pistol actually already exists in arma 2, doesn't share ammo with other weapons. Slightly higher damage than the Uzi, harder to find ammo. Less accurate than semi auto handguns. Same damage as 1911/Revolver. Found in civilian and military loot tables.

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I understand new weapon content like this isn't exactly priority 1, but it doesn't hurt to ask. I feel there should be less tactical as hell guns for more guerrilla style gunfights.

Edited May 26, 2013 by J0hnm13

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

I agree that there should definitely be more civilian weapons in the standalone.

[-Gews- 7443]

A non sidearm version of the Uzi. Basically a cloned MP5 with more recoil, more noise, and a tad less accuracy. Categorized as a primary, mainly used to give fresher spawned coast dwellers more firepower since 9mm is still such a low damage round in DayZ. Found in civilian and military loot tables.

Shares ammo with PDW, MP5, doesn't accept G17 or M9 mags.

Don't totally agree with the mini Uzi, would rather see full-size Uzi or Croatian ERO clone.

Obrez Pistol, basically a saw'd off Mosin Nagant. Accuracy is low, about half the cone of the spread of shotgun pellets, with high damage and low attack speed. Categorized as a sidearm. Found in farm and civilian loot tables.

Obrez is okay. The Obrez would not have anywhere near the power of a full-sized rifle, the barrel is too short for the powder to burn, therefore you don't get the full power (you also get massive muzzle flash since the rest of the powder burns outside of the barrel). Someone chronographed their Obrez and was getting 1,350 ft/s.

That would translate to either 2,000 damage or 3,800 damage (BIS damage formula has inconsistencies)

I was trying to make an Obrez...

Skorpion pistol actually already exists in arma 2, doesn't share ammo with other weapons. Slightly higher damage than the Uzi, harder to find ammo. Less accurate than semi auto handguns. Same damage as 1911/Revolver. Found in civilian and military loot tables.

I don't agree with your damage evaluation, the Skorpion does less damage than the other handguns, it fires a smaller, less powerful round.

Skorpion = 62gr, 1,050 ft/s = 152 ft-lbs energy (0.311 caliber)

vs

Makarov = 95 gr, 1,050 ft/s = 233 ft-lbs energy (0.365 caliber)

Glock, M9 = 115gr, 1,300 ft/s = 432 ft-lbs energy (0.355 caliber)

1911, Revolver = 230gr, 850 ft/s = 370 ft-lbs energy (0.452 caliber)

Also I don't think Uzis and vz.61s are really "civilian" weapons.

[colekern 1364]

Also I don't think Uzis and vz.61s are really "civilian" weapons.

There are civilian model Uzis with increased barrel size, they'd just be rare.

[-Gews- 7443]

There are civilian model Uzis with increased barrel size, they'd just be rare.

True, but those models are produced for the US market where you need a long barrel to avoid National Firearms Act regulations on short-barreled rifles.

I think even the regular, fully-automatic UZI would be more common in a place like Chernarus compared to models that have been produced specifically for the North American market.

[colekern 1364]

True, but those models are produced for the US market where you need a long barrel to avoid National Firearms Act regulations on short-barreled rifles.

I think even the regular, fully-automatic UZI would be more common in a place like Chernarus compared to models that have been produced specifically for the North American market.

True.

[Death_Dealer 3155]

I would like to see more shotguns in homes around Chernarus. Specifically hunting/sporting ones.

They pack a hell of a punch at the expense of accuracy and range, depending on if you use bird shot or buck shot.

[patriotabr 2]

Ok I Agree. But Include more .22 weapons , .38 revolvers, sawed off shotgun , .22 rifles and Police weapons.

[Trizzo 632]

I expect a 10/22 to be added to the game + attachements to find, or i will be very mad. I feel as though a 10/22 should be a god like find in the mod/SA if dayz was feeling like it was meant too.

Things like Mini 14, ex mil eg: SKS rifles, Benelli R1, Sauer 303...would be your rip AS-50 spawn equivalent for civilian areas. Sensbile and common civilian firearms, similar in function and design to military platforms but lacking high capacity magazines, military optics, attachments. Think a DMR with a less powerful scope, 5 round magazine.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Trizzo

[terminal_boy 860]

It all depends where the SA is set as a Ruger 10/22 is going to be a very rare piece of kit anywhere in Europe, especially the former Soviet satellite states.

[BSB Jimmy 360]

sawed of shotgun does less damage? it should be devastating at really close range but anything else is terrible.

[-Gews- 7443]

sawed of shotgun does less damage? it should be devastating at really close range but anything else is terrible.

Not any more devastating than a normal shotgun, if anything pellets / slugs would have less velocity / penetration.

[enforcer1975 1111]

I would expect a variety of AKs + your basic hunting rifle and shotgun variants. Primarily Shotguns because of the versatility even before handguns. Just think about the people not having a lot of money to buy more than one weapon and the weapon is a tool that has to defend your home and bring food on the table.

[-Gews- 7443]

I would expect a variety of AKs + your basic hunting rifle and shotgun variants. Primarily Shotguns because of the versatility even before handguns. Just think about the people not having a lot of money to buy more than one weapon and the weapon is a tool that has to defend your home and bring food on the table.

Exactly the right idea.

[patriotabr 2]

Dayz is not Walking Dead but look this db:

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Walking_Dead,_The_(TV_Series)

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I'd like something like this in the standalone where weapons aren't defined as primary or secondary weapons but rather can be carried based on weight and room.

[uweron1011 2]

My proposition:

Airguns cal. 4.5mm and 5.5 mm- quiet, effective at short distances (up to about 25 meters), the ease of finding pellets but are SingleShot and takes some time to reload.

Weapons from the period of the American Civil War and earlier- singleshot musket and six-shot revolvers, long load but it is easier to find the materials needed to fire (black powder is sold in large cans, percussion caps is sold in cartons in order to create enough Pb bullets, fire and kokila ), easy to repair

Pre-1890 guns- revolvers, double-barrel shotguns and singleshot rifle reliability and simple to repair, lever-action rifle magazines large but there may be problems with the repair (many small parts in gun)

I dont know too much about the service lever-action rifle to tell me more about them last point.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Do you know how "messy" a black powder weapon is? You gun will be scrap metal by noon if you fire the weapon in the morning and do not clean it properly. I doubt you will find more of the goods you need to produce a black powder load than you will find manufactured ammunition nowadays. That stuff is used where they are still in the stone age and even rarer by collectors.

[Sutinen 635]

I love it. The Mosin pistol is definitely my favorite. Why not make it craftable? You can cut the barrel + the stock with a hacksaw. < Or scratch that, I just noticed the other shortened parts, that would make a very nasty homemade mosin pistol

And as for the 10/22, I think some .22 Toz rifle would do. I'm a big fan of .22's too.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Sutinen

[uweron1011 2]

I know how problematic it is taking care of the guns using black powder (but it's just a game nothing else), but this is in my opinion using this type weapons in game is interesting (especially in SA, where survival in the forest to be more realistic and a map will be larger) for gamers playing survivalist. But I disagree with the opinion that no one uses black powder and black powder guns, because this weapon is one of the easier ones to get to Europe and the gun has a lot of fans (search the web how many in east europe forums dedicated to just this type of weapon for example bron.iweb in poland). Small digression, Black Powder production is simply but requires a lot of time, so I wrote that the gamer can find can of Black Powder

[J0hnm13 15]

Don't totally agree with the mini Uzi, would rather see full-size Uzi or Croatian ERO clone.

Something more like ?

A full sized uzi is actually what I was going for, I suppose I shoulda found a better picture.

Also have you seen wounds from an Obrez? Sure the science suggests otherwise but the things that gun does are insane.. I can't find any pictures, which is probably a good thing since I'm feeling kind of sick right now, but still. I'd say maybe ~4000 blood damage at least. Though that begs the question why have such an OP sidearm, and I do suppose that the more damage it does the less accuracy they'd have to factor into it. Thinking more like a videogame than I am real life, so bear with me.

Also the topic about the Skorpion, I do suppose you're right about the damage I suggested not making sense. I guess it'd do just under the 9mm damage, though as a full auto sidearm that'd be the balance for such low damage... Still at ~600 blood damage that would take 20 successful shots to kill someone and that seems rather faulty.

I'd say to buff the .45 weapons to 2000 or so blood, buff the 9mm to the 1200 or so that the .45 used to have, than give the skorpion the 889 or so the 9mm had. That then itself is a completely different topic though.

If I happened to say something stupid, it is like 5:30 in the morning and I'm typing this before I get ready for class so forgive me.

[-Gews- 7443]

Also have you seen wounds from an Obrez? Sure the science suggests otherwise but the things that gun does are insane.. I can't find any pictures, which is probably a good thing since I'm feeling kind of sick right now, but still. I'd say maybe ~4000 blood damage at least. Though that begs the question why have such an OP sidearm, and I do suppose that the more damage it does the less accuracy they'd have to factor into it. Thinking more like a videogame than I am real life, so bear with me.

Nope, where'd you come across a pic like that? :0

Depending where you cut it, the barrel may not be long enough to stabilize the bullet, in which case it could tumble end over end and hit the target backwards, sideways, etc.

A 148-gr bullet at any sort of speed is no joke, hitting the target sideways would be bad... most surplus bullets have a length of around 1.26 inches or more.

The bullet wouldn't fragment, however, not designed for that and much too slow at any rate. I assume the temporary "stretch" cavity would be much smaller than a higher-speed bullet would cause due to less energy being available to wound... I also bet the bullet would immediately curve either up or down...

There are a lot of improvised pistols made in India, frequently in rifle cartridges such as .303 British. These are well-known to cause severe wounds:

“There may be chances of surviving if you are shot by a pistol or a revolver, but if you are shot by a country-made gun, you cannot survive as the bullet, piercing through the body, will make a huge hole.”

I wonder how these keyhole wounds would compare to a hollow point, given these rounds have handgun-like energy from such short barrels... Your average pistol ball will essentially just poke a caliber-sized hole if it doesn't hit bone or other obstructions, but hollow points can expand quite a bit if they don't get clogged up by clothes, and will cause a fair-sized temporary cavity as well...

There's an Indian medical article I tried to get once which deals with the subject of keyhole wounds and how it relates to forensics (mistaking entrance for exit wounds), but I'm not gonna pay for that...

Still, when compared to the effects of fragmenting 5.56..........

Also the topic about the Skorpion, I do suppose you're right about the damage I suggested not making sense. I guess it'd do just under the 9mm damage, though as a full auto sidearm that'd be the balance for such low damage... Still at ~600 blood damage that would take 20 successful shots to kill someone and that seems rather faulty.

I'd say to buff the .45 weapons to 2000 or so blood, buff the 9mm to the 1200 or so that the .45 used to have, than give the skorpion the 889 or so the 9mm had. That then itself is a completely different topic though.

Agreed, they should all be buffed. I've said this before, part of the problem is BIS using muzzle energy to calculate damage, but then modifying that by velocity. Half velocity = half damage, etc.

That doesn't make sense, energy and velocity (by itself) are apples and oranges. You can end up with things like this:

Calculating damage for Mosin-Nagant M91/30:

148 gr, 2,840 ft/s = 8,000 blood

Calculating damage for "Obrez"

148 gr, 1,350 ft/s = 1,800 blood

Okay... the big problem is this:

Calculating damage for Mosin-Nagant M91/30:

148 gr, 2,840 ft/s = 8,000 blood

Calculating damage for M91/30 projectile at velocity of 1,350 ft/s (same weight and velocity as Obrez)

Damage scales to velocity loss, so:

(1,350 / 2,840) * 8,000 = 3,800 blood

The exact same projectile, the exact same speed, but one is doing a massive amount more damage... make sense? Nope...

When coming up with a base damage, only the bullet should be considered. Not the velocity, not the energy, just the bullet itself.

Of course that's not how it's done currently, and that's not how it should ideally be done, but that's the best solution possible with ArmA 2... every damage would need to be reworked. If you consider anything else than the bullet (what caliber, what weight, what construction, what type) you will introduce inconsistencies and flaws, which means every damage value currently has these flaws...

Hmph.

[Sutinen 635]

3,800 is enough for a concealable short barreled gun. If we can carry concealed weapons in the SA.

[-Gews- 7443]

3,800 is enough for a concealable short barreled gun. If we can carry concealed weapons in the SA.

True but that's kind of "beside the point" ^_^

I would switch it to a fully momentum based system... still definitely not perfect, but would make more sense than a mix of momentum for one thing and energy for another.

In that case an Obrez would do ~4000-4500 at the least, 9mm = 2,900, Skorpion = 1,570, .22 LR = 1,050.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Gews

[Trizzo 632]

3,800 is enough for a concealable short barreled gun. If we can carry concealed weapons in the SA.

3,800 how did you come to this?

It's not about "enough". DayZ should never be about enough. It's about whats right. I'm guessing a 125g 357 Bonded JHP would laugh at 3,800...but hey maybe gews says otherwise.

-edit- explain this momentum system...won't .45 ACP work out as the least powerful relying on speed? Or do i have it twisted?

Edited May 30, 2013 by Trizzo