A perfect example of anti fun banditry

[Survivalist (DayZ) 0]

Today I went further inland than I usually do, reaching Stary after at least 90 minutes of running. While looting the market two survivors who were in the back come out and have their gun on me. So I figure since they're already in a group, they're survivors and there's two of them I should be fine. I greet them, say I'm friendly, no response. I inquire if either of them is hurt and offer blood packs eager to help fellow survivors out, one of them shoots me in the head. This won't happen every time, sure but it only takes one and you can play running simulator again.

To survive we are either required to kill everything on sight or steer clear of everyone altogether. I thought DayZ was about survival and cooperation, then why are the rules such that to survive we are forced to shy away from cooperation? Bandits are needed though, they provide great atmosphere and tension but there's a balance between bandits and survivors and in my opinion the bandit playstyle is too dominant.

If you play like jacky chan who don't want no trable you get less gear (because you need to avoid Cherno and Elektro) and have to walk more to get anywhere interesting. At the same time your progress is measured by how long you can survive or how far out inland you can get only to be shot and killed over a bloodbag unless you play like a hermit.

I don't want DayZ to be a handholding casual game where everyone takes turns camping loot spawns. Ofcourse mayor towns should always be killsites infested with bandits. However outside of these hotspots your first instinct on seeing another survivor should be something like "hey now there's two of us, we can try to loot X or find Y" instead of "he will kill me unless I kill him first" or "might as well kill him to see if he has anything". Getting killed for loot should always be a threat, but for gods sake not at the frequency it happens now.

I think the dev realised this, hence bandit skin. However humanity as it is now is not enough. There needs to be a serious consequence towards killing someone. When you take away someone's progress there should be a consequence reflecting the gravity of the action. A life outside of mayor cities/airfield (which are killzones) should have more worth to it than a few supplies.

There's a lot of possible solutions. For example if the sound of a gunshot plus the smell of a fresh corpse attracts a horde of zombies. Or low humanity players attracting more zombies. Or low humanity players becoming inexplicably addicted to other peoples beans, keep killing or suffer movement and vision penalties.

[capitol 2]

suck it up, if they dont reply just nail them.

[Survivalist (DayZ) 0]

suck it up' date=' if they dont reply just nail them.

[/quote']

Can't nail two of them at once while they're aiming at you. My point is that in the atmosphere of the mod they shouldn't have profited from taking a life and that for both gameplay purposes and immersion purposes this breaks the game. If you disagree I look forward to reading your reasons.

Alt F4 did cross my mind but I really don't want to play this game like a pussy.

[Leechman 8]

I thought DayZ was about survival and cooperation

You thought wrong. It's about survival. I guess one out 2 isn't that bad.

There needs to be a serious consequence towards killing someone. When you take away someone's progress there should be a consequence reflecting the gravity of the action

There already is a consequence. It's the loss of ammo you used to kill that person.

Like all other PvP complainers you are complaining about the playstyle' date=' not the fact that PvP is in the game. PvP is a feature, there does not need to be ramifications from killing other players, just because they choose a different playstyle to you. The game is designed so that players can make up their own rules in regards to things like this. Don't like someone killing other players? Form a group that hunts bandits and try to uphold some sense of law and justice, or stop playing. Don't come on the forums and complain about a the playstyles of others which are perfectly within the bounds, and theme, of the game.

My point is that in the atmosphere of the mod they shouldn't have profited from taking a life and that for both gameplay purposes and immersion purposes this breaks the game.

I don't even.

It's a Post-Apocalyptic, scarce resource, survival scenario. Are you actually, seriously saying that the idea of someone killing someone else to take their resources is immersion breaking?

[Francis (DayZ) 0]

The more inland I ever get the more hostile other people are, bandit skin or not.

Honestly, I think direct voice chat is going to help a lot when it gets put back in. Right now standing and typing just gets you killed. Not everyone reads it and you can't assume everyone is friendly, bandit skin or not. Voice chat will get the message across right away and depending on how convincing your voice is, people might be more friendly. I know I would if some smooth British man rolled up and called us mates and asked where we were headed I'd think twice about blowing his head off with my AK.

It's unfortunate everyone can't be more accommodating, but I'm quite sure a large portion of us have had the same type of thing happen. It sucks balls running all the way out to to some military outpost only to get popped when you run into other survivors... but most people don't want to risk it, and I do not blame them.

[BlackAlpha 12]

Next time you meet someone at gunpoint, you shoot or you run like hell. Ask them from a safe distance if they are friendly or not.

[Sabre (DayZ) 4]

The far majority of the players here comes from the CoD/BF3 school, so you can forget all about immersion and mature playing!

All you can do is hope these .... people... ultimately gets bored with the ArmA pace and returns to their normal Run-Gun-Derping.

So yeah, unless I've played with you before and "know" you I'll just kill you in the name of survival. Untill rocket implements something that makes people think more than twice about smoking each other for the lulz.

[Leechman 8]

The far majority of the players here comes from the CoD/BF3 school' date=' so you can forget all about immersion and mature playing!

[/quote']

Where do these stats come from exactly?

[alienfreak 6]

I thought DayZ was about survival and cooperation

You thought wrong. It's about survival. I guess one out 2 isn't that bad.

Its 2 out of 2.

If you run around badly armed all alone you are an easy prey. If you run around alone and well armed you are a valuable prey.

3 People have 3 times the chance to see a threat. 3 times the firepowre. Can heal each other with bags. Can have one or two suppress the enemy and one flanks. Looking more powerful and thus making guys think about engaging (that is close combat guys mostly though)

[dallas 5195]

"DayZ - Average Life Expectancy: 4h 43m"

Survival is the name of the game, people cooperate to survive, but this doesn't mean they cooperate with everybody. You're already wise enough to stay clear of Cherno and Elektro, but you need to add Stary Sobor to that list.

[Leechman 8]

Its 2 out of 2.

Nope.

The game is about survival. Nothing more, nothing less. Co-operation is a playstyle that arises out of a need for survival. Much the same as Banditry is a playstyle that arises out of a need for survival. The way you might play is not the only way to survive.

If you run around badly armed all alone you are an easy prey. If you run around alone and well armed you are a valuable prey.

3 People have 3 times the chance to see a threat. 3 times the firepowre. Can heal each other with bags. Can have one or two suppress the enemy and one flanks. Looking more powerful and thus making guys think about engaging (that is close combat guys mostly though)

Just a side note from this that made me laugh. The only time I have died to a bandit is when I was in a group of 4.

The key thing with your 'prey' argument is the 'run'ning. Try stealth. I mean seriously try it, go all out stealth. You'll find that you become nobody's prey.

...except for maybe that dead silent crawler zombie that spawns right next to you... >.>

[Survivalist (DayZ) 0]

You thought wrong. It's about survival. I guess one out 2 isn't that bad.

In a zombie apocalypse situation cooperation would be absolutely essential to survival. Seeing another survivor or a group holed up in a church would realistically be a godsend. Unless they're severely under equipped in terms of ammo and food a survivor would not shoot on sight.

There already is a consequence. It's the loss of ammo you used to kill that person.

Like all other PvP complainers you are complaining about the playstyle' date=' not the fact that PvP is in the game. PvP is a feature, there does not need to be ramifications from killing other players, just because they choose a different playstyle to you. The game is designed so that players can make up their own rules in regards to things like this. Don't like someone killing other players? Form a group that hunts bandits and try to uphold some sense of law and justice, or stop playing. Don't come on the forums and complain about a the playstyles of others which are perfectly within the bounds, and theme, of the game.[/quote']

Ammo is too abundant for that to be a consequence. You are denying that a part of the gameplay is clearly anti fun. The gameplay is far more centric on PvP than it is on PvM. The zombies are a distraction from the pvp element. What I'm saying is that the PvP element is not in balance with the PvM. My problem with the shoot on sight playstyle is that it directly opposes all cooperation, essentially rooting it out unless you're playing with people you know.

I don't even.

It's a Post-Apocalyptic' date=' scarce resource, survival scenario. Are you actually, seriously saying that the idea of someone killing someone else to take their resources is immersion breaking?

[/quote']

I would agree with you if resources were actually scarce. They're not. Killing someone out of requiring food or water or even vastly superior gear you could not do without fits perfectly in how I see this game. Making players face these kind of dilemma's is amazing. Killings are often a "just because I can" or "if I won't he will" kind of deal, and that's because it's so easy to take a life regardless of what that life should be worth.

The problem is that in contrast to reality you often don't have an incentive not to kill someone. The idea behind humanity is pretty neat, kill in cold blood and you become a free target. Humanity is so easy to get back though that people without a bandit skin behave roughly the same. Survivors aren't unified enough to make bandits regret being a bandit.

I understand your point when it comes to your stance on the sandbox experience of DayZ. I understand why people feel like putting in rules reduces integrity of the game. I'm a big fan of sandbox games but in my opinion the sandbox on it's own can be made so much more interesting with the right set of rules.

[Macenzie 79]

Cooperation is fine, trying to cooperate with a random stranger is dangerous.

We (the group I play with) tend to go out of our way to avoid other survivor contact (stealth is the key) and if that fails shoot anyone who isn't in our teamspeak. It's just safer that way.

Assume everyone is hostile, you'll live longer.

[bayers 28]

Im a bandit. I kill anything that moves. I wasnt always like that though. I had to murder a nub who shot me once, he went back to the lobby and respawned right on his body 3 times. So i had to kill him 3 times more. That meant I was now a bandit.

Now people try to kill me everywhere I go, so I have to defend myself. The bandit skin gives self rightous nubs a license to try to kill me, so I have to kill them first. Meaning my humanity drops even more. I dont like killing, especailly if the guy has walked for hours, but I do it to survive. If I am in a town and I spot some survivors, I have to kill them befroe I lose sight of them. Otherwise they will get me sooner or later

[fox808 40]

While looting the market two survivors who were in the back come out and have their gun on me... I greet them' date=' say I'm friendly, no response...

[/quote']

You must be new here.

Also, Alpha.

[shemashko 2]

As most people tell you, this is a game of survival. Working with a partner is a major advantage of course, but it is also risky as hell. You never know when that buddy will shoot you in the back. You make decisions and these decisions will lead you to conclusions. Think carefully before hand.

Concerning having to avoid people = less loot is bullshit in my opinion. I've been able to roam around the north avoid people that are looting around and wait until they go away to another area. Sure its time-consuming, but you get the next loot that spawns. Once again a game of survival. Think of it that way and you'll enjoy it much more. Been surviving 12+ hours so far.

[savini 587]

What if...there was a reward for gaining humanity. If your humanity is at 8000 (hypothetically) Then you would perhaps acquire a military skin. Also, either when you pass the 8000 mark or on your next spawn, your default gear would be low end military weapons. Then say you start killing everyone and your humanity drops to 4000 (hypothetically) you lose the skin, and the default spawn weapons.

Just a thought that popped in my head. Honestly, I don't mind it the way it is. Either way, cheers.

[Grey2ham 1]

Today I went further inland than I usually do' date=' reaching Stary after at least 90 minutes of running. While looting the market two survivors who were in the back come out and have their gun on me. So I figure since they're already in a group, they're survivors and there's two of them I should be fine. I greet them, say I'm friendly, no response. I inquire if either of them is hurt and offer blood packs eager to help fellow survivors out, one of them shoots me in the head. This won't happen every time, sure but it only takes one and you can play running simulator again.

[/quote']

IMO you got shot because you had blood bags on you. Run for 60 mins to get them or kill the random guy in front of me?

[Jamesbiff 4]

Seriously, how on gods green earth are you guys playing to get killed so damned often? i mean shit, if you show even the tiniest amount of caution, you can usually evade being killed.

Stop complaining that everyone is killing each other and at the same time complaining because you sat in front of two guys pointing their guns at you, chances are if they havent typed anything in the next 10 seconds, they arent friendly, take the first shot.

Dont announce your position and dont wander into a town, circle it at LEAST once from the tree line then go in, get used to the layout of each town (play around with the map editor in vanilla) and go STRAIGHT for whatever it is you want. If you see people in the town, be prepared to either evade or kill them, dont ASK them, thats a stupid thing to do, why? simple...

Im actually Michael Jordan.

see what i did there? i lied, for all you know i might ACTUALLY be Michael Jordan, but if you covet your possessions that much, dont take the risk, being cautious and living for anythng longer than a few hours requires either friends youve made from outside the game, or being an unforgiving son of a gun.

if it REALLY bothers you that much, kill them, but dont loot them, give them a chance to find their way back and get their stuff. Youll end up a bandit, but if a skin change and being the 'bad guy' really bothers you that much, maybe you shouldnt be playing this.

[Raziel (DayZ) 0]

I'm just going to go ahead and ask: is there a way to play DayZ on single player? I'm seriously getting sick and tired of getting killed so cheaply. My latest death had someone chase me down while I'm running from a pack of zombies - he was running ALONG SIDE the pack of zombies while shooting me and didn't agro a single zed for himself. For me this mod isn't really fun - more likely it makes me want to hunt down these players in real life and stab them with a knife for 15 minutes. So for the sake of not hearing about another videogame fueled rampage from Fox news can someone tell me how to set up this mod for single player? I'd much rather spend hours looking for beans and killing zombies by myself than take two steps off the beach and get sniped by the guy camping in the trees with a sniper rifle.

[partybooper 2]

What if...there was a reward for gaining humanity. If your humanity is at 8000 (hypothetically) Then you would perhaps acquire a military skin. Also' date=' either when you pass the 8000 mark or on your next spawn, your default gear would be low end military weapons.[/quote']

Actually I like this idea pretty much. And it wouldn't be "unfair" to bandits since playing with the intention to not murder survivors is, in my opinion, the harder way. I chose this way myself since I don't want to be a bandit who's most likely killed by the first survivor he didn't see first. And for a good reason, if you ask me.

Restricting bandits for their behaviour isn't the right way, it's a decision they made and they got a right to do so. But rewarding a player for trying to reach a humanity of 8000 like in Rhodes' example could be an interesting idea. Besides, 8000 would take quite some time if you ask me. My humanity doesn't rise so fast because we're a group of two survivors, and guess what? We are mostly avoiding other survivors and hunt down bandits. As long as we don't get hurt, neither of us can rise their humanity, so it will definitely take some time.

Gave you a rep point Rhodes. There aren't many constructive posts around besides "whining" and "deal with it" posts. :)

[Leechman 8]

In a zombie apocalypse situation cooperation would be absolutely essential to survival.

For some, not for others. More people around you leads to greater numbers of unknown factors. Some may choose to avoid other people at any cost, even killing them on sight to avoid future complications.

Ammo is too abundant

Agreed, Non-Gucci Gun ammo is far too abundant and it would be nice to see alterations of loot spawn chances for things like that as well as food/drink. But this is early alpha, we're testing the systems.

You are denying that a part of the gameplay is clearly anti fun. The gameplay is far more centric on PvP than it is on PvM.

The game isn't supposed to be fun at the moment.

See:

Pretty much this was just developed as a rough proof of concept and a "fuck you" to all those video game exec's who told me the concept would never work.

It wasn't designed to be fun

Saying a playstyle is anti-fun is silly.

The problem is that in contrast to reality you often don't have an incentive not to kill someone.

Let's explore this.

In real life you have incentives to not kill people. These stem from things like social stigma' date=' established legal deterrents and punishments, religious or moral beliefs and lack of means.

In this scenario: There are no legal deterrents/punishments, because there is no legal system in place. There is no social stigma surrounding murder because there is no society. There is no lack of means as weapons are readily available if you know where to look. The only thing remaining as an incentive not to kill someone here is personal morality and beliefs.

Your morality might tell you to co-operate, other's morality might tell them to be extreme in ensuring their survivability by killing everyone in sight, not just for resource gain.

Just because you don't believe in it, doesn't make it invalid. Try to be more open-minded.

My problem with the shoot on sight playstyle is that it directly opposes all cooperation

Have you thought this is because the player doesn't want to co-operate with others? Just because you don't believe in it, doesn't make it invalid.

Survivors aren't unified enough to make bandits regret being a bandit.

This is simply because no-one has tried to unify the survivors against the bandits. People have managed to control and lock down entire cities. It just takes the right attitude and some determination.

What if...there was a reward for gaining humanity.

Rewarding one playstyle but ignoring the other is the same as straight up punishing the other. This would only be a good idea if you rewarded in a balanced and fair manner all styles of gameplay.

But then we'd be back to square one and people would be complaining about getting killed by another player once more.

[Raziel (DayZ) 0]

I've got a crazy idea: how about more zombies? Eh?

When you log in and see there's only 18 zombies at the moment you're not really worried about them. Right now the biggest threat in the map isn't the infestation - it's the other players.

So instead of 18 make it 18,000, and put them all over the map - not just chilling in the towns. Put 50 zombies right next to the can of beans. So the only way to get fed is to bring in more people with guns - or have somebody play chicken and lure the corpses away. Force people to stop shooting each other and band together to survive.

Just my idea. Whatever. No one cares.

[alienfreak 6]

Ammo is too abundant

Agreed' date=' Non-Gucci Gun ammo is far too abundant and it would be nice to see alterations of loot spawn chances for things like that as well as food/drink. But this is early alpha, we're testing the systems.

[/quote']

There is by far too little ammo around in the game:

1. You usually carry around only a 4 mags for your weapons and have no real base. Most soldiers I know which were in Iraq had significantly more ammo on them.

2. You cannot use use ammo of the same calibre on other weapons even if you should be able to do so.

3. There simply is too little ammo. You raid an military installation and there are not thousands of rounds lying around but more like 100 rounds. If you are lucky.

4. Basic Ammunition is not so hard to manufacture by yourself. Yet you cannot do so with your clan/group/whatever.

Running around with barely 100 rounds of ammo and calling it ABUNDANT is a joke.

[desrat 4]

If you play like jacky chan who don't want no trable you get less gear (because you need to avoid Cherno and Elektro) and have to walk more to get anywhere interesting.

Without sounding too rude' date=' but that's complete bollocks..

I never enter any of the big towns simply because its such a bandits playground out there, and the only item I have been unable to acquire easily is blood packs which with the aid of the hunting knife and matches isn't even an issue..

I play with a select few friends that I've known for years and completely avoid all other players whenever possible and that's exactly what I would do if this was a real situation.

Desrat's List of No Go Areas:

1. Chernogorsk
   
2. Elecktrozavodsk
   
3. Stary Sobor
   
4. Novy Sobor
   
5. Solnichniy
   
6. Berezino
   
7. Nizhnoye
   
8. Kamyshovo
   
9. Prigorodky
   
10. Balota
    
11. Komarovo
    
12. Kamenka
    
13. Krasnostav
    
14. Airfields (yes all of them)
    

So instead of 18 make it 18' date='000, and put them all over the map - not just chilling in the towns. Put 50 zombies right next to the can of beans. So the only way to get fed is to bring in more people with guns - or have somebody play chicken and lure the corpses away. [/quote']

You do realise what the empty cans and bottles or for right? Throw em and watch the Zeds go after em, no need to use humans as live bait...