Poll: Remove Blood Bags From Mod

[Trizzo 632]

After endless topics on bloodbags and their effect on the game from, self healing, balance, imbalance, lets put it too vote...and end this!

I am for the removal of bloodbags for several reasons. These reasons concern realism, balance, reducing KOS and improving the overall experience. Less gimmicks, more surival, more stories.

If you can list arguements in favor that would be appreciated, because we could get a discussion going about whats good about bloodbags besides them being easy.

*Balance:

Squads vs Lone Wolf. Single players can't heal in a fair way. Squads can essentially roll around 100% health with little input. I am a lone wolf. I don't support nerfing the game. This will make it harder for everyone to heal (as a lone wolf i have held at gun point 3 people to force heal me, twice on video in channel).

Squads will still have the advantage when healing because whatever resource is used to heal players squads can gather more or specialise. Removing bloodbags makes squads work harder, incentivises team play outside of killing other players and all players heal equally.

Player Spread

If hospitals had less incentive to vist (for blood) and healing required animals players would spread across the map more evenly. Cities less clustered, more players in more dynamic locations. More a hypotheieis on player behavior.

KOS Potential Reduction:

I'm a big fan of KOS. I don't do it but the immediate and random potential for violence makes DayZ great. BUT as the mod has grown stale, zombies outwitted and guns are still the best loot and common KOS is the logical outcome. If bloodbags disappear players who KOS will need to careful consider gunfights if the option to instantly heal is no longer available. Minor wounds accumulate quicker than blood bags wisk them away. Major wounds will take players out of the game for hours if they are not prepared.

Trolling would be less vey fun when pea shooters can leave lingering wounds that put players in reach of 1 hit kills.

*Realism:

Arguing from realism is somewhat contentious but… this is DayZ dammit. Blood bags require storage to keep. Chernarus is a wrecked country. You would and could not inject luke warm tomato paste in your vein and expect to live.

Very Rare Spawn Option

Tweaking the spawn right could be a balabaced fix.

*Would suggest 0.0X spawn

*When blood bags spawn 1 not 5

Better healing solutions?

Food -> blood recovery makes sense. 20 steaks to full health does not. I would support passive blood regernation with several conidtions realated to levels of hunger/stamina/coldness.

*Keeping above going hungry level should regen your blood quicker. Players can only eat X amount before full. I think a bump of 1000-2000 blood per gouring session would not be unfair.

*Being full stomach but not in surplus slows the recovery level.

*Being at netural or hungry stops regen

*Starving makes it go down.

*Recovery of blood under strain of exerciseis slow

* Recovery of blood in rest is faster

*In cold it stops, in hypothermia it drops.

Happy to hear counter arguments...i think for the listed reason removal enchances gameplay....if you think otherwise...let us know

Edited May 10, 2013 by Trizzo

[beastoverlord 574]

This will be better dealt with in the SA as there isn't just a blood system. Overall health is almost as important as blood.

As for my opinion with the mod, I think taking them out would negatively impact the player base. It takes far too long to just eat food and is too much of a hassle for the everyday player. I like the fact that I don't have to spend hours just farming up food so I don't have a black and white screen. Just stop going lone wolf man... teams are way more fun. Plus, on a realism side, a solo person in an apocalypse would probably have a much lesser chance of survival than a band of individuals.

[Trizzo 632]

Just stop going lone wolf man... teams are way more fun.

Ahh if ever there was a convincing argument in their favor...and pretty much confirmed all my points.

*You don't like black and white? Becuase getting into gunfights should be a happy go lucky inconsiquential experience?

*Your right, it is a hassel. A clan/squad spreads out that hassel so its a non issue

Bloodbags are never a problem for me. I heal because I hunt and make a point of doing it, hold someone up, or just deal with it. If players were forced out of the cities because there were no blood bags the country side would come alive with players hunting game. Another good point.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Trizzo

[Josh225 129]

I'm sort of stuck on this. Some of the points you made actually make sense but I believe blood bags need to still have a presence in the mod, what if their spawn rate was decreased? Add that option to the poll?

[Trizzo 632]

I'm sort of stuck on this. Some of the points you made actually make sense but I believe blood bags need to still have a presence in the mod, what if their spawn rate was decreased? Add that option to the poll?

Added...but barely...a very, very rare rate of spawn. 0.01% seems good. It only really effects squads and sqauds spread out and check multiple spawns...it would have to be very slim. And in boxes 1 at a time, not 5. 5 bags per box!...thats a squad covered with leftovers.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Trizzo

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

It's tricky. I've never liked the concept of pumping blood into someone to heal them but if it's to be removed it means the whole medical system needs to be looked at. As a mod DayZ will always be very restricted with this sort of thing. Just removing them seems a bit too simple. Very low spawns of bloodbags would be good but again, things like hunting ect. would have to be vastly improved to make everything work together, I'm just not sure the mod will ever achieve it within it's limits.

[Josh225 129]

5 bags per box!

That's the problem with them at the moment, I feel that their removal would be a bit extreme for most people but I think they do need to be taken down a notch.

[Timmymachine109 (DayZ) 235]

Or that instead of giving full health they gradually increased health but only up to a certain point...or they had a much lower blood increase and could only be given every so often?

[trichome (DayZ) 198]

Screw balance the mod got on fine without it when Rocket was in charge, now every attempt at "balance" by the community devs breaks something or worse. Ah realism yeah when it suits you. The game is not realistic or anything like it. It has realistic elements but thats about it.

I think blood needs to stay, as it currently stands blood values from animals are not good enough when your really low on blood and quite frankly I could not be arsed to spend my time hunting bloody animals in the woods just to keep my blood up.

[fluxley 2228]

In the next patch blood bags are a lot rarer and more importantly theres no more instant health, both food and bloodbags will regenerate blood over time.

If you want to check out the system for yourself you can get on the test server they are always looking for feedback on this and other changes.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/133235-looking-for-testers/

[disorder 344]

I put rare spawn. Also I think there should be different sizes. Maybe the smaller ones 3k ish spawn the same as now, full health ones about 1/10th of the current time.

Edited May 10, 2013 by disorder

[terminal_boy 860]

Make them a very rare spawn.

[Element47 2481]

first, let me say i dont see blood bags as literal blood bags. to me, they are symbolic representatives of the healing mechanic, like medpacks or healing potions in other games.

that said, i can see several possible venues for improvement. i disagree with you on two important points though:

1. i am absolutely in favor of the two-player mechanic, in which it needs another player to successfully apply a healing item and a healing procedure to the patient.

2. i am absolutely in favor of concentrating medical supplies in certain regions, thus effectively creating traffic to that points. military, medical and industrial loot spawns are beacons, waypoints of routes on the map.. spreading everything evenly will break the dynamic.. good multiplayer maps are not boringly equal in every place - they guide players on routes to create encounter dynamics - and thats an important function of the hospitals..

[tajjuk 65]

Keep, removing them is essentially a kick in the teeth for the casual player and removes a teamwork element.

Finding animals is too unreliable, I've travelled right across the map and barely seen one on other occasions seen 3 cows in a field.

Also keep realism out of this, it's a game so any arguments have to be made on a gameplay mechanic basis, why are bloodbags unrealistic yet morphine for a broken leg aren't? I've also never really seen them as blood bags as such but more blood transfusion kits.

[zhrike 264]

I'd love to see them gone or a very rare spawn. They are currently exploited and contribute to the KOS mentality. It is far too easy for a couple (or more) of bandits (or assholes) to grab a shit ton of blood bags (particularly with the way medical supply boxes are bugged), shoot at everyone (especially lone players) with little worry about getting shot themselves because they can just tea bag ... err, blood bag each other back to full health. If they had to worry about getting into a firefight, being shot and being brought to low blood, it would change their behavior/impact. Either they'd be more invested in careful assaults/gameplay, or they'd simply die easily and more often. I play lone wolf and have no problems hunting (since I no longer trust anyone, particularly on public hive) to regenerate blood. The only other mechanic that I think would help is sleep (as works well in Origins) and/or time. Your blood should regenerate very slowly over time - only time spent in game, however.

[-Gews- 7443]

Finding animals is too unreliable, I've travelled right across the map and barely seen one on other occasions seen 3 cows in a field.

Pusta is my favorite hunting ground, there always seem to be a silly amount of animals spawning there... last time I killed two cows and a goat, and I saw two rabbits and two sheep... all in 15-20 minutes.

Anyways I personally would like to see them removed, or made a very rare spawn... by very rare maybe 0.01%. I don't know how it would affect other's gameplay.

Being badly wounded should take a bit of time and effort to fully recover! I find cooked meat pretty easy even with the lower cooked meat values these days.

[Slartybartfast 76]

I really like alot of your pointsc, and as a lone wolf some very recognisable indeed.

And as said above, make them more rare, but also make it more risky to use them. Something like they already did by adding the chance of getting infected (increase that chance f.i.)

[-Gews- 7443]

And as said above, make them more rare, but also make it more risky to use them. Something like they already did by adding the chance of getting infected (increase that chance f.i.)

Perhaps they could assign each new spawn a blood type and spawn a few different kinds of bloodbags, as well as making them more rare... you get quite sick if you use the wrong one and it doesn't give you any blood back either. Heh.

[Trizzo 632]

1) Keep, removing them is essentially a kick in the teeth for the casual player and removes a teamwork element.

2) why are bloodbags unrealistic yet morphine for a broken leg aren't? I've also never really seen them as blood bags as such but more blood transfusion kits.

1) Aruging to include something in DayZ becuase it has casual appeal? ^_^ And removing BB from loot spawn does not oblierate any aspect of teamwork, it shifts the focus. We gravitate to what resource is easy exploit for its yield compared to the effort and put in. Blood is easier than animals. If blood was removed groups would shift to to hunting animals and cooperation is expanded that way.

"I've also never really seen them as blood bags as such but more blood transfusion kits" Beg yours?!

2) Blood bags can only be kept in refridgeration. Morphine, penthorx inhalers etc while not enough to make a person support full weight on compound fracture to their leg do suit as a tempory fix to many other broken bones/serious pain. As i have first hand experience (witnessing). Essentially moprine does not have a short used by date.

Currently leg bones are the only bones that break, not ideal.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Trizzo

[Zarniwoop 1193]

I say reduce spawn rate. Instead of finding 5 in a box you should be able to find 0,1 or 2 at the most. As it stands its like all the zombies pass by the hosptals of Chernaurus every day to give blood. Also adding a decay mechanic to them will make you think twice about having 7-8 in your pack for a 3 man squad.

Edit: If the whole medical system is not to be redone somehow for the mod then we need a little more wildlife. I want to be able to hit them damn birds for a start! :P

Edited May 10, 2013 by Zarniwoop

[trichome (DayZ) 198]

If blood was removed groups would shift to to hunting animals and cooperation is expanded that way.

I'm going to call you out on this point. As I think you couldent be further from what will actually happen. If blood is removed groups would not shift to hunting animals they'll just continue hunting players for there food because its easier and a lot more fun than shooting dumb animals that don't even try to get away from you!

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I think you're missing the point there.

Hunting other players may be a source of food, but without the "easy-mode" blood-bag option, attacking any other player comes at a HUGE risk.

[trichome (DayZ) 198]

I think you're missing the point there.

Hunting other players may be a source of food, but without the "easy-mode" blood-bag option, attacking any other player comes at a HUGE risk.

Well that depends what you call a huge risk. Attacking players may be a huge risk for you but to other players it could be part of their experience. If your in a group tbh dying is not a problem at all. Your group can pick you up get you regeared in no time and you can be back pretty easily.

[SaraMichelle 62]

I really like your better healing solutions :) really good ideas, and maybe not taking blood bags out all together, but making them more rare is a good idea. :)

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Well that depends what you call a huge risk. Attacking players may be a huge risk for you but to other players it could be part of their experience. If your in a group tbh dying is not a problem at all. Your group can pick you up get you regeared in no time and you can be back pretty easily.

Of course it's going to happen. It's part of the game. But if you're hunting players because you're in need of food (Whether to heal or just to stop you from starving), getting shot, even if you DO get the resources you wanted, could potentially leave you worse off than you started.

The more folk you have to provide for, the more often you need to take that risk.

You arent' even guaranteed to bump into a player, unless you just stalk high-traffic areas.

On the subject of group regearing. You might as well say "If you buy hacks and put on God Mode, you never have to worry about getting killed".

If your everyday tactic involves exploiting loopholes in the game, I don't think you can be a good judge of whether healing needs to be made more difficult.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Chabowski