More sandbox Pvp then survival?

[Ken Bean 174]

Yes, game has definitely become more PvP, which not good for us survivalists.

Re nights - the thing is, NVGs are so rare that only bandits and hackers ever manage to get them - so that makes night unpopular with those of us who don't fit into one of those two categories. That's why there are so many day-only servers.

Jep, NVGs are very rare. But really dark nights are quite fun. If the server is empty and the pvp dudes are gone, flares can be found in almost every corner. They do make a nice light which can be seen extremely far though. So running around with flares on growded server may not be advised. ^^

Edit

I'm for a mixture, like having bright nights and dark nights available. We shouldn't go and remove the dark nights just for ending up having everyone playing at night like it would be day. I'm more a night person, I wouldn't enjoy it.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Ken Bean

[nickm 10]

Play on the Public servers

I hope your kidding.

[GiesBeans 7]

I agree with the OP on the servers, (although I do enjoy having a few extra buildings - I cover more of the map, as do other players) I almost think of the "spawn with xxxx" as a completely different game. Arma with zombies. Everything is more available, therefore more disposable. That only leads to bad shit.

The zombies are a bit toothless, but if you get cocky, one of those zombies will knock you the fuck out, and eat your face. I lost my 32 day old character because I ran into a barracks not giving a shit, and never had enough ammo to deal with the entourage.

Night time is awesome.

[oxln 14]

Kinda recently got back to DayZ after a few months away. Happy to see that there seems to be less hackers now.

There are three main issues that kinda ruins things for me now.

1. Now when i try to find servers theres just so many servers with like "Spawn with sniper, extra loot, military loot everywhere blabla".

It kinda takes the survival part away. Going from town to town with a new character trying to find a extra mag for the pistol, that to me was the fun part. Feeling that your working your towards something and know that alerting some zombies or a player could be really risky.

Also if you spawn with no gear it encourage you to team up with other survivors, if you spawn with a m16 cco people just tend to become alot more trigger happy.

2. Ohh and the Zombies now...What the hell. They could basically be removed and it would barely be noticable.

I mean you run for a few meters and then they just stop chasing you. I know it was insane before when they never gave up, but atleast that made em challanging. Now when they are so useless, getting weapons for dealing with zombies just feels less important.

Many times i don't even try to stealth around them. I just run right past them knowing i will shake them off after like 10-30 sec.

3. Anyone more then me that miss the night time on servers? Yes they are dark as fuck, but the most memerable things for me has been happening during the night. So much more atmosphere and tension at night. I bet even the current shitty zombie would be scary on a night time server.

Played maybe 20-30 servers and haven't been able to find a server with night on it. Seems like most players just became so competative and there for don't want night.

I really hope the standalone fix these things. I hope they make sure there are mores stuff to do, more advantages of teaming up and most importantly more dangerous threats in the wild.

The BMRF Servers are pretty good they have nighttime and expert servers and you spawn with basically nothing except for the patrol pack and a bandage with a painkiller.

[Evilsausage 87]

Thanks for the replies all. Yes ill check out some the servers mentioned.

Play origins or breaking point if you want stronger zombie, or a cherna map with stronger zombies, less loots and AIs.

Cool what exactly makes them stronger? Atm im just all bummed by the current zombies i thought the old zombies where so much better. It actually became a problem if you alerted them. Atm this is just not the case, i run for 10-20 sec and i have lost all of them. When they are as scary as a old lady i just don't feel any tension or fear that i might die.

The whole zombie apocalypse becomes such a tiny part and everything just becomes about player vs player interaction.

[Saethkept 134]

Actually, it is not too hard on a private server to make zombies die by headshots only, do more damage, run much faster and spawn more rapidly and in greater numbers. It is also possible to spawn all zombies at once - though that seems to be quite buggy at the moment. With features such as these, the zombie factor comes back into play - big time. However, a player can still run forever and mostly avoid zeds, but listening to tales of players getting knocked unconscious while trying to lift off in a helicopter is quite satisfying.

Understandably, the DayZ mod devs are doing their best to implement features desired by the whole community and I salute them for that. On a private or test server, you've no one but yourself or your micro community to please, and so more drastic measures can be taken or experimented with. I do wish however, that much, much more focus would be placed on the zombies and the difficulty of hourly survival versus the environment. PvP is fun, exciting, and fits well enough in the genre but in my opinion it ought not have dominated it like it has. There have been times when I might as well have just reinstalled the original Unreal Tournament for the level of player on player combat I've seen. A symptom of the era I suppose.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Saethkept

[tajjuk 65]

Personally I think the zombies are fine, they shouldn't be doing more damage at the moment when they can do the crazy unpredictable stuff like aggro through walls or the completely random detection they have. They are still also a threat, like someone else above said if you don't pay them enough care you'll be knocked out with one eating your brains. I'm all for strong zombies that you shouldn't mess with but they are stupid creatures and therefore should have predictable behaivour, They currently don't and that's why they shouldn't be strong.

The game shouldn't really be about the zombies because then it's just a single player game and your relying too much on AI. The real fear in this game is the other players in my opinion because they are so unpredictable and variable, something the AI can never match well enough.

Some players will kill on sight, some will run, some will talk, some will do a combination of all 3, you never know where they are or what their intentions are. That is what makes the game, not the zombies.

If you focus too much on the Zombies then you will either end up with a situation of super zombies, rediculous OP AI that makes the game no fun and just a grind or for some people the zombies will always be too weak and not enough threat.

[Inception. 9443]

What I personally would like is for everything to be harsher and more cruel

and more zombies

[toxicsludge 406]

What I personally would like is for everything to be harsher and more cruel

and more zombies

Exactly. No abundance of canned food and soda. Make the axe, knife and matches the most prized possessions. No more finding 3 shotguns with ammo in a single barn, and so forth...

[terminal_boy 860]

I'd add the humble water bottle to the list of prized possessions if they weren't so common.

[Evilsausage 87]

Personally I think the zombies are fine, they shouldn't be doing more damage at the moment when they can do the crazy unpredictable stuff like aggro through walls or the completely random detection they have. They are still also a threat, like someone else above said if you don't pay them enough care you'll be knocked out with one eating your brains. I'm all for strong zombies that you shouldn't mess with but they are stupid creatures and therefore should have predictable behaivour, They currently don't and that's why they shouldn't be strong.

The game shouldn't really be about the zombies because then it's just a single player game and your relying too much on AI. The real fear in this game is the other players in my opinion because they are so unpredictable and variable, something the AI can never match well enough.

Some players will kill on sight, some will run, some will talk, some will do a combination of all 3, you never know where they are or what their intentions are. That is what makes the game, not the zombies.

If you focus too much on the Zombies then you will either end up with a situation of super zombies, rediculous OP AI that makes the game no fun and just a grind or for some people the zombies will always be too weak and not enough threat.

Im sorry but i don't fully agree. Yes zombies are very buggy which can cause problems, especially in tight areas when they are attacking through walls etc..I wouldn't mind special zombies aslong as they aren't over the top and got silly special abilities that makes no sense.

But the Zombies should be a noticable threat, atm when im going through a town i just run around if i know there is no players around. I remember before when you had to be ultra sneaky when you explore a town, this really isn't the case anymore because you can lose them so easily. All you have to do is run and they won't hit you and will after a short time stop chasing you.

It just doesn't feel like something people would do in a Zombie apocalypse, firepower or stealth should be key elements for scavaging towns not running around like a moffo picking loot as fast as possible.

I almost never even bother trying to kill zombies unless im stuck with them in a building or they are standing below a deer stand. I just don't see any major zombie threat anymore. I feel no tension at all, only the player vs player battles can offer this and that is why i think it has become so much PVP focused.

I would also like to see zombies in a bit less predictable places. like out in the woods etc..

Edited May 2, 2013 by Evilsausage

[tajjuk 65]

Im sorry but i don't fully agree. Yes zombies are very buggy which can cause problems, especially in tight areas when they are attacking through walls etc..

But the Zombies should be a noticable threat, atm when im going through a town i just run around if i know there is no players around. I remember before when you had to be ultra sneaky when you explore a town, this really isn't the case anymore because you can lose them so easily. All you have to do is run and they won't hit you and will after a short time stop chasing you.

It just doesn't feel like something people would do in a Zombie apocalypse, firepower or stealth should be key elements for scavaging towns not running around like a moffo picking loot as fast as possible.

I almost never even bother trying to kill zombies unless im stuck with them in a building or they are standing below a deer stand. I just don't see any major zombie threat anymore. I feel no tension at all, only the player vs player battles can offer this and that is why i think it has become so much PVP focused.

I would also like to see zombies in a bit less predictable places. like out in the woods etc..

There is no real logic for Zombies to randomly appear in the woods, they are looking for food and unless they find a source of food or something of interest (such as noise, light etc.) they wouldn't be there. For them to be wandering around a forrest is a bit silly seeing as they should be working off essentially one or two basic thoughts.

As for their danger, well they are AI, they can never replicate the danger other players possess, so PVP should always be the reall threat to you, zombies should be respected but at the same time you shouldn't have to fight through a horde of them to pick up some beans.

Server options whould allow you to crank up things like Zombie strength etc and loot tables so you could have servers with extreme settings but is certainly shouldn;t be the default, especially at the moment. Zombies are far too glitchy and random. Once that's fixed then it's fine for them to be stronger but utnil then when they can attack you through a wall or randomly spawn on you or get hits on you when they are like 10 feet away they shouldn't be doing massive damage. The key anti-zombie strategy should be thought, Zombies don't think or plan, they just react so you should be able to plan your way around them. Current Zombie mechanics make this harder.

[Evilsausage 87]

I don't agree ofc all zombies would not be in towns, especially long after the infection incident started when there aren't any people left in the towns.

You also have to remember that people might have turned into zombies in the forest. Or zombies who maybe have chased survivors in there. There is nothing that would guarentee that a zombie would only hang around populated areas.

I remember how scared i was of the forest at night in DayZ when i was new, but then i realized its the safest place in the game.

I think it would be awsome if there was atleast some chance of encountering zombies outside towns.

As for their danger, well they are AI, they can never replicate the danger other players possess, so PVP should always be the reall threat to you, zombies should be respected but at the same time you shouldn't have to fight through a horde of them to pick up some beans.

Well atm they aren't really respected, they are a minimal part of the game. Im not saying people should fight their way through hordes of em.

But there should atleast be consquences if you run around like a retard alerting zombies. Atm there really isn't unless there is a player who notice you.

The key anti-zombie strategy should be thought, Zombies don't think or plan, they just react so you should be able to plan your way around them. Current Zombie mechanics make this harder.

I agree that they are a bit random. sometimes i run right past them and they don't notice anything other times they notice me miles away even though im not fully running.

But at the same time they should react more approprieate. Atm they spot a player they go all crazy and run after you, then you run 10 meters behind a pinetree and they give up there search. That just isn't right, if they are so hungry for flesh they shouldn't give up that easily.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Evilsausage

[tajjuk 65]

I don't agree ofc all zombies would not be in towns, especially long after the infection incident started when there aren't any people left in the towns.

You also have to remember that people might have turned into zombies in the forest. Or zombies who maybe have chased survivors in there. There is nothing that would guarentee that a zombie would only hang around populated areas.

I remember how scared i was of the forest at night in DayZ when i was new, but then i realized its the safest place in the game.

I think it would be awsome if there was atleast some chance of encountering zombies outside towns.

Well atm they aren't really respected, they are a minimal part of the game. Im not saying people should fight their way through hordes of em.

But there should atleast be consquences if you run around like a retard alerting zombies. Atm there really isn't unless there is a player who notice you.

I agree that they are a bit random. sometimes i run right past them and they don't notice anything other times they notice me miles away even though im not fully running.

But at the same time they should react more approprieate. Atm they spot a player they go all crazy and run after you, then you run 10 meters behind a pinetree and they give up there search. That just isn't right, if they are so hungry for flesh they shouldn't give up that easily.

I'm happy for them to be a bit stronger, I still don't think you can run around like a mad man in town without expecting a lot of them to trail you, or at least if I do that I seem to pick up a lot. We'll see how the 'double damage' zombies go along with the odd super strong zombie in the new patch. Again I just can't see them wandering aimlessy in a wood, if they are chasing an animal or something yes but the hordes of them that just randomly appear around some tiny shack make no real sense.

I think the tree thing is fair enough, the are half decayed humans after all they aren't suddenly going to get dog like smell or cat like vision. Ok maybe you shouldn't be able to run round a building and loose them. What they should actually do is keep running in the direction they thought you were going if they loose line of sight. Meaning you have to deviate/hide to loose them rather than have them suddenly just stop cos they've run into a tree.

They need to be stupid, predictable, relentless and aggressive.

[ImageCtrl 719]

There is no real logic for Zombies to randomly appear in the woods, they are looking for food ...

:P

[rudeboy (DayZ) 4]

I guess I just don't see the problem. Well I see problems but the pvp isn't very high on that list. There is a flavor for everyone really. I have a server that I use as my DayZ experience where I am a hero and have tents and lots of survival loot. I have a server I use for pvp where that is the goal and I rarely leave the shore. I also have a server that is spawn with a sniper rifle. I stalk the woods around towns and try to hone my skills at sneaking up and killing them or I hone my skills at counter sniping.

Basically, I play to my mood and I must say that I play my DayZ experience less and less as I have everything I need and don't really have much more to do as far as survival. When I do play there lately, I find myself going pvp as I will watch a town from the outskirts while my brother is in town. I tell him where players are and we observe to see if anyone kos. If they do, we kill the offender and guard the loot of both until the player who was kos comes back and we let him have his loot and/or the offenders loot. That is all we can really find to do as we have become so efficient at gearing up ourselves and have 6 tents full of everything we could possibly need to survive scattered in strategic locations. We actually get excited when a tent is found and we need to loot again.

The fact that you can be fully geared to survive in an hour or 2 is more of an issue than the pvp in my opinion. Once geared, what else is there to do. We have become bored with the survival aspect. It is too easy. At times I wish there were 20 or so roaming AI bikers looking to rape and pillage that I could go against as killing players seems to make you an outcast. I did have fun the other day after killing a guy who was trying to sneak up on me and after I did he announced over side chat that I had just killed him moments after spawning even though he was sneaking up on me with an M4 in hand and a M40 sniper in his pack. Next thing I knew I was being hunted by half the server as they thought I was killing fresh spawns. I decided not to let everyone know that he was far from a fresh spawn and relished in the challenge. It got crazy at that point and I actually really enjoyed defending myself from the onslaught of players trying to find and kill me. I stayed right there in balota and just moved from one location to another killing them until someone got the better of me.

Basically, as a survival game, DayZ is extremely easy. Gear up, hide in the woods and live a long and prosperous life. If you do not want to kill others, what else is there to do? I have visited every spot on the map so there is nothing new to see. Yes, you can kill bandits and what not but that is still pvp which means you cannot complain if that is what you do. So what else is there to do. I can join a clan but why. The only purpose is to pvp or gather even more loot than I already have so I can sit and look at it while giving myself a good job pat on the back. Make survival harder and you will impact the amount of pvp I believe.

I guess I am just rambling. Carry on.

[Evilsausage 87]

They need to be stupid, predictable, relentless and aggressive.

Yup I agree sadly they are pretty much only stupid and predictable right now.

[Vanz0r 16]

how I'd like to see the Z's, notice the dates on the vids.

Edited May 2, 2013 by VanZ0r

[m.cab 83]

[...]Make survival harder and you will impact the amount of pvp I believe.

I guess I am just rambling. Carry on.

Listen to this man! :thumbsup:

[entspeak 374]

I have no problem with the idea of PvP, the problem is with balance. There are consequences in the world for avoiding PvP... chances are you won't get te really good loot, you will have a problem repairing and keeping possession of vehicles, you have to stay out of kill zone areas.

The consequences of engaging in PvP is that you risk getting killed a lot. But, if you talk to most PvP players, they will tell you that doesn't bother them. So, to add consequences, you have to make PvP harder... enter the zombies.

Zombies make PvP harder, they give away your position, they make it hard to keep on a target, they make it harder to gear up again when you die. If the zombies are not a threat, the balance between PvP and survival gets skewed in favor of PvP.

The zombies will never be perfect, but they are definitely improving. It won't be so easy to get away from them in the next release. They are more persistent. I've had problems where I've lost one set among some buildings only to run into another set. Yes, you can still run into buildings and lose them that way. But if you want freedom to loot, it will require planning a route and silently taking out zombies that are going to get in your way... or creating a distraction.

Unless you're a diehard PvP person who only wants to come on to a server to rack up as many kills in a couple hours as you can, the next build will be enjoyable, I think. Of course, server admins will also play a role in whether or not PvP is more balanced as a part of the game.

[Crazy one 124]

I virtually never experience PVP, i make it my sole purpose to stay out in the wilderness, and only occasionally enter danger area's i have all the stuff i need to survive for days etc etc on end, meds/guns/food and water, i see fleeting glances of players and do my up most to avoid them, sometimes i can't but that's DayZ survival wether it's against the elements,zombies or other players, i find it a thrill ride from start to finish.

[Mr Mouse 61]

yeah, since the game got so much press all the cod kiddies flocked and now there's really no sense of comradery at all. its just banditry everywhere. i really hope that the standalone ends this crap because as fun as the PVP element is, i am so fucking bored of having to shoot people on sight just because i KNOW that they will do the same to me.

That's my biggest gripe with how the game has evolved. I bought the game to play a survival role, helping others through the apocalypse.

Right now, it's FPS PvP with everyone shooting at you.

Can we blame modern games, making everyone crave kills and gear? Perhaps. but I personally think it's children of today and their mentality towards gaming. Sounds old-fashioned, but on-line gaming wasn't wasn't like this when I was young (gaming for close to two decades); every community I was a part of was far friendlier in game.

The only positive thing is the standalone should be full of melee weapons in the early stages. They need to introduce far more co-op elements. Rocket has said something about a skill based system that's a long long long way away. To explain very briefly: people can become great engineers, or great medics, giving them the ability to fix cars to a higher level/cure the worst diseases. You'll have to actively seek out these people and request their help. Why kill someone when you need them? It should help build camaraderie..

[Evilsausage 87]

I have no problem with the idea of PvP, the problem is with balance. There are consequences in the world for avoiding PvP... chances are you won't get te really good loot, you will have a problem repairing and keeping possession of vehicles, you have to stay out of kill zone areas.

The consequences of engaging in PvP is that you risk getting killed a lot. But, if you talk to most PvP players, they will tell you that doesn't bother them. So, to add consequences, you have to make PvP harder... enter the zombies.

Zombies make PvP harder, they give away your position, they make it hard to keep on a target, they make it harder to gear up again when you die. If the zombies are not a threat, the balance between PvP and survival gets skewed in favor of PvP.

The zombies will never be perfect, but they are definitely improving. It won't be so easy to get away from them in the next release. They are more persistent. I've had problems where I've lost one set among some buildings only to run into another set. Yes, you can still run into buildings and lose them that way. But if you want freedom to loot, it will require planning a route and silently taking out zombies that are going to get in your way... or creating a distraction.

Unless you're a diehard PvP person who only wants to come on to a server to rack up as many kills in a couple hours as you can, the next build will be enjoyable, I think. Of course, server admins will also play a role in whether or not PvP is more balanced as a part of the game.

I gave you my beans. Great post and nice to hear the zombies will improve.

Yeah agreed when the zombies become too easy PvP gets easier and there really isn't much of a point to team up. So everyone just shoot on sight.

If we get to see rougher survival elements this would change.

Problem is there will always be people who don't like too much survival elements in a surivival game. People get relived when they start with a weapon, don't have to experiance night, won't have to worry about dangerous zombies, can find tones of weapons and vehicles. Sadly that usually leads to the survival and teamwork aspect becomes less important. Most people want the flashy shit, to them less isn't more. More is more even if it completly goes against what the game is about.

Another problem is that once you got decent gear there really isn't that much to do.. The zombies can't offer anything, all you can do is go and pick up food and drink and then just keep on surviving i guess...So i can understand why more people once they get bored go look for players. Since only the pvp can offer tension and intressting battles.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Evilsausage

[elf cakes 559]

That's my biggest gripe with how the game has evolved. I bought the game to play a survival role, helping others through the apocalypse.

Right now, it's FPS PvP with everyone shooting at you.

Can we blame modern games, making everyone crave kills and gear? Perhaps. but I personally think it's children of today and their mentality towards gaming. Sounds old-fashioned, but on-line gaming wasn't wasn't like this when I was young (gaming for close to two decades); every community I was a part of was far friendlier in game.

The only positive thing is the standalone should be full of melee weapons in the early stages. They need to introduce far more co-op elements. Rocket has said something about a skill based system that's a long long long way away. To explain very briefly: people can become great engineers, or great medics, giving them the ability to fix cars to a higher level/cure the worst diseases. You'll have to actively seek out these people and request their help. Why kill someone when you need them? It should help build camaraderie..

i am all for anything that builds comraderie among players. that's what i started playing for. though i have found it very rarely, the amount of KoS is just silly atm. and to add to your point about how online gaming has developed badly over the years, i couldnt agree more. in all honesty, i believe it is games like CoD and Halo that have caused this, because they brought gaming to the immature, younger generation who constantly need to boost their ego's by trash talking etc. Its a shame to see dayZ become what it has become, and i can only hope that LoL and Hon players all stay the fuck away. the absolute worst communites out there.

[BongMcPuffin 8]

I gave you my beans. Great post and nice to hear the zombies will improve.

Yeah agreed when the zombies become too easy PvP gets easier and there really isn't much of a point to team up. So everyone just shoot on sight.

If we get to see rougher survival elements this would change.

Problem is there will always be people who don't like too much survival elements in a surivival game. People get relived when they start with a weapon, don't have to experiance night, won't have to worry about dangerous zombies, can find tones of weapons and vehicles. Sadly that usually leads to the survival and teamwork aspect becomes less important. Most people want the flashy shit, to them less isn't more. More is more even if it completly goes against what the game is about.

Another problem is that once you got decent gear there really isn't that much to do.. The zombies can't offer anything, all you can do is go and pick up food and drink and then just keep on surviving i guess...So i can understand why more people once they get bored go look for players. Since only the pvp can offer tension and intressting battles.

This pretty much sums up what I feel about this game... its a lot of fun for the first hour or two while you loot up, find a shitty gun, use it to upgrade to a nicer gun... but once you have a nice gun, some camo/ghillie suit action, and all the survival items, it pretty much loses that survival feel, and then you feel like Death personified.

The problem being that since there are absolutely zero boss-level zombies, or more dangerous lands/areas/bases to travel to, you pretty much become a full-out PvPer just for the challenge.

The zombies that are currently in-game are fine (liked them better in 1.7.5.1), but only for your riff-raff zombies.... there needs to be a 2nd set of zombies created that are rarer, bigger, stronger, muuuuuuch tougher to kill, and can run faster than you can run... this way there is no escaping this hell-beast once you confront it, or it confronts you... you have to stand and fight and make a big ol' scene... and it should take at LEAST two people working together to bring the beast down, or a well armed chopper. The fact is, if you can single-handedly kill every single thing in the game with a well-placed headshot, there isn't much challenge... especially against the riff-raff zombies that you can just walk-backwards from and shoot in the head at your leisure, like fish in a barrel.There are somethings in this game that seem great at first, but get boring REALLY fast (such as zombies, running from town-to-town without much trouble, and gearing up).

Thats pretty much game-play wise my two biggest gripes with the game... 1.) the zombies aren't varied enough... there needs to be strong zombies mixed in with the weak zombies every once in a while... and then there needs to be more variety on loot... more food items, more weapons, more junk items to help dilute the useful items in any given room... so you really have to dig through the trash and SEARCH each room for something useful, instead of just being able to sprint through a town and loot up before the zombies even get close to you.

Without the other players, as a stand-alone single-player Morrowind type game, this game would be incredibly weak... the zombies aren't scary at all, and the loot is too evenly spread out. Every town looks almost exactly the same, and there is no coherent objective, other than to loot items, and kill zombies with said items... which in and of itself is a simple and easy task, especially with the better rifles, which aren't very hard to get at all.

Without the zombies, if it was just a PvP survival game where you had to hunt animals and shoot other players that were also trying to hunt and survive... basically think of a collapsed country that has declared martial law and its everyone for themselves... you ALMOST have a good game in that regard, its just that the game is too easy. Its too easy to find food, starvation really isn't a problem, and it takes absolutely no time to cook your meat or boil your water, which means coming across a guy at a campfire is extremely rare... since if you're quick about it, you can light a fire, cook your meat, boil your water, and extinguish the fire in under a minute. This makes tracking someone down, or sneaking up on them while they are preparing something muuuuuuch harder than it is in real life. In Day-Z, you never see people being people, as in sleeping by/in their tents, preparing a camp, cooking food... because everything on this engine is instant refill... it takes no time to drink a soda and eat a can of beans, you basically inhale food and breath out empty cans........... what I mean by this is, its really easy to survive if you never have to look for a safe spot to hunker down for 20-30 minutes and prepare your food/drink, start a roaring campfire, and take the time to cook your food/boil water/warm up/etc.

If you want to see a game that got the whole "chop a tree down" thing right, look at WurmOnline. It takes multiple swings with your axe/hatchet to knock a tree down... then when its down, it takes several more swings to turn the felled tree into logs... then those logs into kindling... then those kindling get combined with flint/steel to create a campfire... it takes wood to keep the fire going, so you have to add more kindling/logs to the fire over time to keep it burning... once the fire is going, you can put food on the fire and create a low-quality meal, or you can combine it in a bowl or frying pan or big ol stew-kettle to make a better meal. The best part of it all, is that it took time for the tree to get chopped down, it took time to cut it up, it took time to light it, it took time to heat your food on it, and the fire required maintenance with more wood every once in a while to keep it nice and hot. For those of you unfamiliar with WurmOnline... its a game made by Notch Pearson, the guy that made MineCraft.