dayz evolution in SA: [1] the loot system

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

Following the insane idea to do something constructive, I would like to sum up what dayz is offering with reference to certain game design aspect and whar SA will offer instead. Being concerned about the lack of *details* related to the SA core, I hope also to collect more information and therefore make a service to the community.

[1] Loot System

Loot is what is found inside buildings and varies in term of which items can be found, where, with which probability and how loot is respawned once collected by players.

[1.1] Loot in dayz -as per 1.7.6.1-

- loot is generated according to loot tables per static building type (barn, red house, barrack, school, tent, ...)

- not all the buildings can be accessed (in fact, the vast majority is closed)

- there are 7 well known locations for military items (neaf, nwaf, balota, stary sobor, berezino, cherno, elektro)

- there are 3 well known locations for medical items (berezino, cherno, elektro)

- there are 3 well known locations for food/tools (berezino, cherno, elektro) + supermarkets in other cities (Polana, Zeleno, Stary, Pustoshka, Vybor, Krasnostav)

- all the other spawn points have a mix of everything (but not mil. weapons)

- loot is periodically re-gen

- on top, dynamic spawn points with high-grade mil. weapons and tools (heli crash sites)

Associated issues:

- loot farming exploits (go in, take everything useless out, go away, come back, repeat)

- fixed spawn points piles inside the buildings (quick check, grab, leave): no need to search

- 7 chokepoints/bottlenecks/pvp magnets: cherno, elektro, berezino, stary, neaf, nwaf, balota: especially the cities ridden with corpses and camping snipers

- vast majority of buildings useless (closed), just cosmetic placeholders

- low value loot (not worth the risk) in many towns

[1.1] Loot in SA

- many/all building will be accessible

- loot will be scattered (longer search time)

- loot also in vehicles

? how loot is defined (per building, 100% random)

? what about hospitals, supermarket, military/police areas

? what about respawn

? will be there in the Sa chokepoints thus with the same pattern of dayz (e.g. "mad rush to elektro, grab an AK-74 Kobra, two morphine injectors and run north")

Maybe I have missed it, but I have not seen or read a lot of details about looting in SA: if you have any information or precise reference it would be great.

_Anubis_

Edited April 23, 2013 by _Anubis_

[leviski 2152]

You forgot Stary Sobor, that is a Top notch place for tools, medical supplies and military weapons. along with industrial loot and such

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

Yes you are right! Fixing it now.

_Anubis_

[SmashT 10907]

I don't think they have talked about it much other then how you will need to scavenge cupboards, drawers, under beds, behind tv's, cars etc and that those spawn spots (inside) will be random. I assume it would still be defined per building though rather then 100% random otherwise there isn't much incentive to ever leave the coast.

They also mentioned in the dev blog video that loot will now spawn on the server at the start of the mission, when it gets cleaned out, the server will respawn loot as needed. I am curious if that is going to be on some sort of timer or what though and if the loot respawns in the same building or in another somewhere else on the map (I think that would be ideal and would make loot farming almost impossible)

Edited April 23, 2013 by smasht_AU

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

That's exactly one of the things which concern me about the SA: lack of details.

Yet loot is the key of dayz/SA because you will shape your survival strategy starting from that.

_Anubis_

[fluxley 2228]

Maybe they just dont want to give away too much before the release? do you really need to know every detail about how the loot system will work?

whats wrong with discovering this stuff when we actually start playing the game for the first time?

Not having a go at you, just think its not reason for concern, the system will probably continue to be refined after the game is released so talking about exact details now seems a bit pointless.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Fluxley

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

I understand your opinion, but everyone of us has the right to have a viewpoint.

I am very happy with dayz (despite its stupid bugs and shortcomings) so I have high hopes for the SA: the last thing I want to see is a SA that offers only cosmetic (textures, UI, more lootable buildings) improvements without tackling the core limitations and the basic fact that, in dayz, after 2-3 hours of playing you have reached endgame status (fully geared): and this is the result of the current loot system.

_Anubis_

Edited April 23, 2013 by _Anubis_

[fluxley 2228]

Well, totally agree that the current system needs a complete overhaul, but from what ive seen thats exactly what they are doing,

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I think info on how looting in the SA will be a different experience is fairly limited ATM but here's my interpretation of how things will change based in the little info we have.

Firstly, we know that items will spawn in much more interesting places (under beds, in cupboards ect.) which means searching for gear will be much more of a challenge than just running into a room and looking at the floor for 2 seconds. That in itself means that even searching one building thoroughly could take a lot more time meaning that you have to make the choice to search every corner of a building properly or run through quickly knowing that you may be missing valuable items. Combine that with the fact that 80% (ish) of the buildings now have multiple rooms in making both major cities feel much more complex and you already have a bigger challenge on your hands. Even running through the cities will be much more dangerous knowing that you can be shot at from the windows of the newly opened buildings, ATM that's rarely a concern.

Secondly we know that there's going to be a crafting system and MANY more potential items to scavenge. This means that many items that you find may be seemingly "junk" items, at least until you know what to do with them or have a need for them. Again, this will make looting for the things you want take longer, all the while meaning you are more vulnerable whilst doing so. It also means you'll be constantly weighing up what it's worth carrying and what you have to leave behind as there's no way you'll be able to just grab everything of value as you can now.

Thirdly (and this is pure speculation because nobody really knows how it will work) there will eventually be a complex disease/infection system in the SA, meaning that potentially, high traffic areas could become more dangerous because they will carry a higher risk of disease meaning that until you have the right gear you may want avoid high traffic areas like the cities altogether.

If you combine these new mechanics with the fact that zeds will now be able to run indoors I can already see how running through Cherno/Electro to get instantly geared is already going to be much more of a challenge, if not just plain impossible.

I personally hope that the way items spawn isn't completely random, it'll be interesting to see how they go about it. Rocket did mention that the new system will potentially make it almost impossible to generate loot maps (hopefully) but I guess we just have to wait and see if this is the case.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Fraggle

[m.cab 83]

IMO loot forming is one of the biggest problems this game has. Good Thread!

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Does this mean I'll find flares in car wrecks?

[DemonGroover 8836]

I personally don't have the patience for loot farming but i concede it is an issue.

The fact that most buildings and areas will be able to spawn loot should mean that there is actually less loot in one particular spot. And when it does spawn in a building it isn't in the same area all the time but spread out meaning searching and exploration becomes a necessity.

Ideally i would like a scenario where finding items is not common place and stumbling upon a gun is a real find.

[tansien 15]

Do keep in mind that in SA loot will be serverside-generated, which will solve many of the issues that DayZ currently suffers from when it comes to loot farming.

The transition from having a few "loot piles" in every building to spreading it out more evenly will also help, but I mean, if you've ever spent any time in any MMO, you know that eventually people will find a way...

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

So not so much information aside from the fact it will be server based (but that's a technicality and most likely, should help to reduce hacking on client side), loot is scattered and pseudo-random. Good that we admit now "not so much is known" despite devblogs from Mt. Everest (sorry I digress..)

Well if the statement of Rocket is true (no loot maps can be created/make sense) the loot is really 100% random, it means 'no more running to NWAF to get nice weapons' , which is good and bad at the same time: if finding any automatic weapon is an exercise of patience and luck (no known good spots) then people will automatically consider the option to hunt and kill better equipped players to get their rare gear and players with those weapons will be even more careful.. --> More PvP

Another thing that scares me a little bit is the nasty combo Z running inside/loot require time to search/slow hit animation with hatchet/no collision detection between Z: it means that if you have 5 Z running at you indoor you will always die: the hatchet will kill the first but the other 4 will run at you with bodies overlapped and hit you in no time. Now this is a minor risk as they walk, but if Z will run inside you will always be overrun.

_Anubis_

[Boshed 29]

I feel the same as Fluxley with regards to not really wanting to know every last detail. Learning, researching, exploring and experimenting is half the fun (for me at least) and the lack of knowledge will also add some fresh life to the experience.

I work in IT myself as a project and development manager (although this is probably true for all industries that 'create' something) and have to deal with this type of thing from customers all the time. You can't and shouldn't provide *details* on something that isn't yet finished and is still a work in progress. Providing information regarding the concept or what you are looking to achieve is fine, but giving full details of something that isn't yet complete and will likely change is just making a rod for your own back. Something I'm sure Rocket has learnt during his time as a developer

Edited April 24, 2013 by Boshed