Will Snipers Be Removed Or At Least Tweaked In S.A?

[Saethkept 134]

@Op I both agree and disagree.

From where I hail, just about every eleven year old boy is trained from said age to zero a Tasco 3-9X optical sight attached to either a .30-30 lever action, a .25-06, .270 or .30-06 bolt action rifle, for good accuracy (hitting a whitetail deer's heart or spine) at 100 - 300 yards. Where I agree with you, is in the extreme difficulty of accurate fire at targets at extreme range. Even with modern tech and custom loads/rifles, one must be somewhat well trained and gifted to achieve that. For the make believe worlds of DayZ, I am fine with "just anyone" accurately shooting me down at up to 400 yards. As far as the anti-materiel rifles and specialist sniper rifles are concerned; no thank you.

[Heiduk 265]

so before you say the "Weight" is a problem or carrying more than one rifle is hard then you need to get out more.

Yes, and no, it depends on what kind of weapon you are talking about. Sure a DMR or SVD is comparable to that 30-06 you were humping (4-5 kg), but an AS-50 or M107 weighs three times as much (12-15 kg), and that's without ammo. Now add in a Mk 48 as a "backup" (8 kg) plus ammo, and yeah DayZ really needs a stamina system.

And those of you saying firing from a scoped weapon is "Difficult" one of the biggest issues is if you rifle is not zero'd to THAT SPECIFIC SHOOTER than yes you are going to miss horribly.

Again it depends on how you are defining difficult and what kind of ranges you are talking about. Its been a while since I've been directly involved in much hunting but most of the deer and elk hunters I know don't take shots at much over 200-300 m. This agrees with Saethkept's experience and is also pretty in-line with what is generally considered the maximum effective range of infantry. It would be interesting to know what the average sniper kill distance is in DayZ but I suspect it is significantly beyond 300 m.

One other addition to the OP's list of the problems with magnified optics.

• ARMA does a poor job of simulating concealment at range. Spotting a person, with or without camo, 500 m away in a forest is trivial in ARMA but extremely difficult in the real world. In this regard, semi-arid maps like Takistan are much more realistic.
  

[p4triot 207]

They don't have to be artificial things. They can be improvements in things like maintenance, scope sway, reload speed, or even something as simple as time to pull the bolt. It makes sense that somebody that is more familiar with a weapon would perform better in realistic ways. This gives your character much more of an identity.

As long as they're always done by the user im ok with this. Put for example the starting up protocol for helicopters in Take On Helicopters, expierience can make you turn on your heli in about 20 seconds, a lot less than an unexperienced player. Same with snipers would be cool, but it needs to be managed by the user, not the character. Skill has to be always userside.

[mitor 176]

Will Snipers Be Removed Or At Least Tweaked In S.A?

They should.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Mitor

[willey.erd@oundleschool.org.uk 506]

I think they've said that they are going to focus on hunting rifles in the SA, to replace military-grade NATO weapons which just wouldn't be in Chernarus.

[arkaeldren 53]

As for this thread, I try my best to activate my "brain to mouth filter", but I am just bruised from face palms concerning how many people actually agree with this solution. Their are so many ways to help improve, on the sniper class of player, in games today. So why on earth would anyone recommend removal of these type of weapons, when those improvements can be implemented? The ONLY reason I can see for removal, is from people that NEVER play as a sniper, and do not have the skill to evade them. I'm sorry guys, I know this is something that a lot of you are angry about, and if you take a bit of time, you will see, I do NOT play as a sniper. But we want as many "real world applications" as possible, as long as it does not jeopardize the quality of actual game play for "ALL" styles of play.

edit: On a last note, think about standing in front of Dean with this question. Dean, would you be willing to remove all types of sniper class/play style weapons from the SA?

Really, WTF do you think he would say to you?

That is if he didn't choose to call you a clot, then slap your mom for keeping you..... sorry was my filter malfunctioning again?

Edited April 8, 2013 by Arkael Dren

[CommodoreFrank 13]

As long as they're always done by the user im ok with this. Put for example the starting up protocol for helicopters in Take On Helicopters, expierience can make you turn on your heli in about 20 seconds, a lot less than an unexperienced player. Same with snipers would be cool, but it needs to be managed by the user, not the character. Skill has to be always userside.

I do agree that putting as much on the user as possible is a good thing, but there's only so much you can do when it comes to things like reload speed, bolt speed, etc. These are things that can only artificially become better as the character uses the weapon. There's nothing you can put on user for these, and a reloading minigame like Gears of War isn't the solution, so they either never improve or follow a simple progression.

[mitor 176]

I think they've said that they are going to focus on hunting rifles in the SA, to replace military-grade NATO weapons which just wouldn't be in Chernarus.

No, they haven't said that, or at least I have never seen that. And I'm glad they don't do that. Statements like shouldn't be in Chernarus are ridiculous, Chernarus is what Devs want it to be, and military weapons fit the world, because they are realistic and weapon variety and personalization is one of the things that makes these games great.

So no, that's not the solution. I like to have a wide variety of weapons to choose from, although I also want them to be very rare.

As for this thread, I try my best to activate my "brain to mouth filter", but I am just bruised from face palms concerning how many people actually agree with this solution. Their are so many ways to help improve, on the sniper class of player, in games today. So why on earth would anyone recommend removal of these type of weapons, when those improvements can be implemented? The ONLY reason I can see for removal, is from people that NEVER play as a sniper, and do not have the skill to evade them. I'm sorry guys, I know this is something that a lot of you are angry about, and if you take a bit of time, you will see, I do NOT play as a sniper. But we want as many "real world applications" as possible, as long as it does not jeopardize the quality of actual game play for "ALL" styles of play.

As I understand, OP says they should be removed or tweaked. Indeed, they should be tweaked a lot, because they are overpowered and very unrealistic.

[p4triot 207]

I still don't get why people keeps saying .50 cal weapons are overpowered because they kill you in one shot. Well, I say other rifles/shotguns/even pistols are underpowered because they don't! It is absolutely normal a weapon kills you in one shot, shoot yourself in your feet with a .50 cal weapon and enjoy your new leg 8 inches shorter, but not for long because you will bleed to death in a matter of seconds.

Have you ever seen a .50 bullet?

If this doesn't kill you in one shot, you must be terminator.

Isn't the damage or the weapon what needs to be tweaked (and imo, their damage needs to be tweaked to do MORE, for all guns, specially pistols). But what needs to be tweaked are the sniping mechanics. Bullet drop, wind, humidity, IGE OGE, even fucking colioris effect and you render those weapons useless without removing them. This would be nonsense ofc, it is just an example of what could happen just by adding all sniping mechanics. But a few ones are ok and sniping gets difficult enough for only 1/100 people to be able to do it. So no more whinnings on the forums about being sniped (Hahaha who I am kidding, of course they will keep crying even if they only die once per year due to snipers).

[Pandema 352]

Pretty sure they've been suggested but.

-Windage

-Weight

-And removing .50cals altogether (They make sense in ArmA2 not DayZ, Snipers=Bueno .50cals with scopes =No Bueno)

EDIT: Actually, how about we replace the AS50 and M107 with the KSVK? Makes more sense given the setting.

Hell, maybe take out the Page Up and Page Down zeroing style, make people actually move the scope to make the shot.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Pandema

[mmarionz 6]

Every single FPS game gets people moaning about snipers, I grow so weary.

Harden up and learn not be such an easy target..I welcome getting shot by snipers as I will not make the same mistake again.

Although I do agree with maybe more domestic hunting type rifles being about and less 50 cals.

[Faceman Peck 93]

As title says

• Unrealistically easy to use, try using one in real life (stance, breath, sway, rifle weight, barrel kick)
  
• Game breaking advantages, organised banditry have a monopoly over an entire area
  
• Extremely light weighted :o , no one can horse an .50 rifle and spare mags through a forest without an effort
  
• Scope does not sway as it would it real life when standing or crouching, especially just after performing physical tasks (1st point)- reference to a bandit that was running for the past 10 minutes nonstop sees you 1 klick away sttands and aims his sniper and taking you down in 1 shot before you can say 'friendly' in the chat.
  
• Atmospheric factors are insufficent (wind velocity, wind direction, humidity, weather)- I actally dont think this point should be included in the game to any degree greater than 'subtle'.
  

TDLR;

Sniper rifles are unrealistic in many ways, they are currently a game breaking feature of this mod.

Besides the points i mentioned, features like bullet damage, drop, recoil etc.. are working correctly. Tweak Sniper rifle mechanics in SA to be more realistic, this also happens to result in a slightly more evenly 'balanced' game.

so do you want them removed or tweaked? You only want automatic rifles then?

[Ioncannon 10]

This old thing again eh? There are many hunting rifles that they could put in that would still kill you in one shot if they approximate any sort of realism.

As far as who uses what and all that crap repeated over again, do a internet search, you'll find many utube videos and information on .50 cal sniper rifles in action. Much to the dismay of many of the vocal posters here, they still deploy .50 cal weapons on a regular basis, it's actually one of the Marines' most popular sniper weapons.

If Rocket takes them out, so be it, I'll still play it for a bit. But most likely the mod itself will outshine the SA then, after all without the mini gear grind all you have is a sandbox full of COD kiddies.

To tell the truth it's my opinion that if there were no ability to spawn in these weapons and no way for server owners to modify the gear loadouts you would see alot less grumbling about them...they were pretty damn rare in the real Vanilla version. Before the hackers hit.

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

I turned down a DMR for a CZ550. I'd rather use something that needed skill, not a long range bullet spammer. I hope the standalone has something to counteract the effectiveness of sniper rifles at all ranges, to maker a fairer playing ground for those of us who choose not to snipe.

[trichome (DayZ) 198]

I hope the standalone has something to counteract the effectiveness of sniper rifles at all ranges, to maker a fairer playing ground for those of us who choose not to snipe.

Oh excuse me so because you choose not to snipe, there should be something to counteract the effectiveness of sniper rifles? is that so! How about using your brain!

Well excuse me Lord Bullshit ofcourse there going to do that just because you don't like to snipe.

ROFL LMAO!

[thelonewarrior 886]

I like to snipe yet it's far too easy

I wouldn't even bother if they made it more difficult

[Pokerguy12 218]

Seriosuly? The OP is playing the realism card.....what about the errr zombies?

I get what your trying to say about the sniper rifles, i think they should take them out of the game in the standalone bar say one or two that are very rare but no 50. cals etc.

But if your going to go on about the ability to run with a gun on your back and aim etc. vs realism well then theres a lot more to take issue with than that, we should also have a bladder icon that dictates when we gotta take a shit and piss in the woods too, i mean imagine coming across a guy taking a shit in the woods and wasting him....that would be worth a screenshot surely?...plus there would then at least be a reason to carry toilet role around with you....cos no-one wants to see the 'dirty bum' meter rising to high! :)

Waste excrement features are confirmed for SA. Realism at its peak

[scaramoosh 162]

I don't like the really OP ones which tell you where people are like wall hacks.

I don't see a problem with them though, they're a goal to work towards, I think rifles like the CZ are perfectly balanced.

[tripmo 4]

As title says

• Unrealistically easy to use, try using one in real life (stance, breath, sway, rifle weight, barrel kick)
  
• Game breaking advantages, organised banditry have a monopoly over an entire area
  
• Extremely light weighted :o , no one can horse an .50 rifle and spare mags through a forest without an effort
  
• Scope does not sway as it would it real life when standing or crouching, especially just after performing physical tasks (1st point)- reference to a bandit that was running for the past 10 minutes nonstop sees you 1 klick away sttands and aims his sniper and taking you down in 1 shot before you can say 'friendly' in the chat.
  
• Atmospheric factors are insufficent (wind velocity, wind direction, humidity, weather)- I actally dont think this point should be included in the game to any degree greater than 'subtle'.
  

TDLR;

Sniper rifles are unrealistic in many ways, they are currently a game breaking feature of this mod.

Besides the points i mentioned, features like bullet damage, drop, recoil etc.. are working correctly. Tweak Sniper rifle mechanics in SA to be more realistic, this also happens to result in a slightly more evenly 'balanced' game.

Short version:

I want DayZ SA to have ACE mod added, ty

[Imafighter 236]

Remove anti-material rifles.

[spankerfist 44]

keep 50 cal but make it more rare.

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

Remove anti-material rifles.

Remove all vehicles.

[Saethkept 134]

Two ways to view broadly this discussion and the weapons it well, discusses. In that cold, barren, no saves allowed world which we call "real" (no, Earth not Chernarus), one could find an attack helicopter, a main battle tank, an ICBM or even yes, an anti-materiel rifle. So theoretically, during a hypothetical apocalypse zombie involved or no, survivors might just combat one another with the aforementioned ridiculous weapon systems. Does that mean said weapon systems ought to exist in the fictional dominions of DayZ? Hmmm ... if striving for absolute realism were the goal, then why not? However, and this is for all you half inch bullet sniper gun fanatics out there; in an ultra realistic sim, you'd be fortunate to with one of these massive caliber rifles, hit a stationary target beyond 200 or 300 meters. You'd have to train yourselves tto improve your hit probability at range and of course factor in and adapt to climatic conditions, etc. Realism cuts both ways. I say remove the "laser" guns from the game. That or make carrying and using them extremely difficult ... as it is in the world real.

[Pokerguy12 218]

keep 50 cal but make it more rare.

Make them have a really high rate of degradation, much higher than other guns

[CoolCain10 55]

Are you for real?? One sniping bandit can kill every n00b running around in the open yeah. Anybody with a brain could easily flank the single bandit in the hills and kill him.

@Pokerguy I've fired handguns,shotguns,rifles and sniper rifles and I don't know what your talking about but once you learn how to handle the gun they are easy to hit with.

Shut Up