SA: 'No advanced weapons'

[EliteSkittle 59]

I don't understand this thread

Do you want a Zombie Survival Simulator, i.e. A game that will be played like you were simulating a real life zombie apocalypse

or

Do you want a Zombie Survival Game i.e. Resident Evil, Left 4 Dead and Call of Duty

Dayz will always be a game at its core of course but what I mean is one the Simulator that I personally wish to play (and what it seems Rocket wishes for if I am correct) Makes you simulate Life. That means Sickness, Guns (military and civilian), Hunger, and all the aspects that come with living. Expect played out in a format where there are now Zombies added to the threats. Where as with a Survival Horror game you will basically have WarZ. You will be running around and rather then trying to survive you will instead be fighting for a gun, rather then the meds to cure you sickness or the beans. A simulator will make the game more of a challenge and there for a much higher reward then if It was just, CoD with guns.

TL;DR

The game is a simulator stop QQ'ing about guns that actually exist its a simulator making it better then a mere game go play Warz if thats what you want.

[Xianyu 820]

I don't understand this thread

Do you want a Zombie Survival Simulator, i.e. A game that will be played like you were simulating a real life zombie apocalypse

or

Do you want a Zombie Survival Game i.e. Resident Evil, Left 4 Dead and Call of Duty

Dayz will always be a game at its core of course but what I mean is one the Simulator that I personally wish to play (and what it seems Rocket wishes for if I am correct) Makes you simulate Life. That means Sickness, Guns (military and civilian), Hunger, and all the aspects that come with living. Expect played out in a format where there are now Zombies added to the threats. Where as with a Survival Horror game you will basically have WarZ. You will be running around and rather then trying to survive you will instead be fighting for a gun, rather then the meds to cure you sickness or the beans. A simulator will make the game more of a challenge and there for a much higher reward then if It was just, CoD with guns.

TL;DR

The game is a simulator stop QQ'ing about guns that actually exist its a simulator making it better then a mere game go play Warz if thats what you want.

Okay then, if this is a simulator, I wouldn't 'QQ' if it included ACE-mod levels of realism with the sniping.

But when killing someone at 600+ metres comes down to point-and-click mechanics, it's not a 'simulator', it's a fucking game. And a pretty BS one at that.

Unless you mean to tell me that with a map, you can judge distances down to the metre, and then click a button on the side of your scope of a .50 cal sniper rifle to get the exact perfect range amount so you can just put the crosshairs on a target and pull the trigger with full confidence of hitting them, even out to 1000 metres away?

Some 'simulator'.

[-Gews- 7443]

My 8mm Mag weighs 22 lbs. I would wager a bet that in real life a CZ weighs close to that. I am 265 lbs and have been lugging a 40-60 lb pack around hunting with that and other 20-25 lb weapons for years. I would not even blink at carrying that SUPER HEAVY 30 lb barret. So if you are talking realism about "who would lug something like that around?" not all of us are 100lb pasty faced weakings.

Yeeeah, sure...

Barrett+scope: 30 lbs

6 magazines: 24 lbs (yeah... a loaded mag is 4 lbs)

To illustrate how ridiculous a choice that would be, let's see what else you could carry for the same weight... hmmm... how about five splitting mauls with 8-lb heads?

Rag-tag survivors in real life wouldn't carry this over hill and dale. They don't need to. The military has Humvees and Strykers and helicopters and tanks and massive logistical support, they can bring whatever they want. Any person who would actually choose to bring an M107 as their "zombie and human survival" rifle would be crazy.

Just be honest and say that you don't want 1 shot weapons in game, stop hiding behind "realism" because that argument is obviously not going to work.

Uh, nope, I have no problem with one-shot weapons. A .338 would be a one-shot weapon. In fact, any gun should be able to one-shot people, damage right now is very basic.

Also I don't get the logic of ''remove as50'', when in reality a DMR or m40a3 would kill you just as quickly.

Has nothing to do with balance or lethality - I believe the gun itself is out of place.

[floogy (DayZ) 25]

They keep them in the Arms room, along with the rest of the weapons.. Duh. Obviously not exposed as a motorpool with a hundred vehicles. Oh, and good luck finding ammunition for that 25mm; that won't be in the Arms room.

Not every unit will have an M107 in their Arms room, only slotted for specific units. Also, you won't find ammunition in an arms room either.

Could you have missed the point any more? Since you're attempting to insult me I'll play along for a bit. Could you enlighten us as to where this particular Arms Room is? I'm assuming it's a different term for armory. My point is not that they'll be in an armory, which is obviously where weapons are stored on military bases. I also realize there is not an M107 in every single armory across the world. Where is the armory located? Is it locked?(It's not as simple as kicking in a door in this case). Is there even anything in there? I'm also aware they store ammunition separately. Which raises the other issue of finding ammo for a weapon that would already be like finding a needle in a haystack.

So... Your point was finding ammunition for a 25mm Bushmaster cannon would be difficult? I agree. I just said I could get a hold of an armored vehicle more easily than an M107. I was illustrating the fact that even an individual with military experience on a particular base could not easily obtain this type of weapon or even want to use it in this scenario.

[Jamz 253]

I agree with you, but then the issue lies with balance. I hope if high end weapons are removed then the civilian weapons are just as common. If all firearms are made rare to the point melee becomes 50% of PvP (i'm speculating here) then the old adage ''in the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king'' comes into play. At least in the mod you can quickly find a enfield/winchester, hell even a double barreled shotgun or m1911 in one loot run through a city to defend yourself. Imagine a group moving along the coast with automatics while the best you can find is a melee weapon..Hence why removing high end gear is a thankless task if you cannot find a basic firearm yourself. I'd rather the tiers be similar to the mod than high end removed and melee promoted. A ak 47 is pretty high end when you're facing 3 guys with baseball bats from 50+m away.

That's what I would like to see. It should still be as easy as it is now to find a firearm but with very limited rounds, likely a pistol or shotgun until reaching a military base inland and then ammo should be very rare. If faced with a group of survivors with AK's for instance, evasion should be used rather than engagement if the odds are not favorable. The beauty of having such large maps is that there are many ways to tackle problems and sometimes bad luck means you will find yourself in an unwinnable situation. Melee weapons would be a back up but mostly used for zombies.

I'm only interested in the removal of the 50cal rifles and that's for the sake of plausibility, I wouldn't think any balancing would be required to address that as so many other similar weapons are also in game.

[leviski 2152]

why wouldnt you want the high powered awesome weapons like AS50? with the new SA mechanics they could spawn in very bad condition, and have a higher maintenance cost..

I mean limiting them is stupid. The fact that you can get a .50 cal is amazing.

[Bongofish 22]

The game is a simulator stop QQ'ing about guns that actually exist its a simulator making it better then a mere game go play Warz if thats what you want.

You have totally missed the point.

I assume that you are calling it a simulator over and over because you believe it is simulating reality. Or at least realistic weapon ballistics and such.

Hate to break it to you, it's not. The shooting in this game is hardly more realistic than any other fps.

Also, if you want to use simulation (ie. reality) as a reason, then you can't honestly argue that these weapons should be in the game. They would be so rare that not existing is way more realistic than what we have now.

Also, a .50cal is a retarded weapon to use during a zombie apocalypse. If they do include them, they should be death traps.

[terrvik 2409]

Screw realism, scoped weapons is easy lazy mode, especially with the grass rendering and shadowing problems. I want exciting encounters with short range weapons. Not Secret of Monkey Island with guns (pixel hunt, point-and-click).

[Ioncannon 10]

Yeeeah, sure...

Barrett+scope: 30 lbs

6 magazines: 24 lbs (yeah... a loaded mag is 4 lbs)

To illustrate how ridiculous a choice that would be, let's see what else you could carry for the same weight... hmmm... how about five splitting mauls with 8-lb heads?

Rag-tag survivors in real life wouldn't carry this over hill and dale. They don't need to. The military has Humvees and Strykers and helicopters and tanks and massive logistical support, they can bring whatever they want. Any person who would actually choose to bring an M107 as their "zombie and human survival" rifle would be crazy.

Uh, nope, I have no problem with one-shot weapons. A .338 would be a one-shot weapon. In fact, any gun should be able to one-shot people, damage right now is very basic.

Has nothing to do with balance or lethality - I believe the gun itself is out of place.

Since you are calling me out I'll respond.

That Barret has a harness that supports it and the ammo, so as to distribute the balanced weight accordingly.

Your example of spitting mauls shows exactly how stupid you really are if you think carrying a weapon and ammo is anything like carrying 5 unwieldy tools.

Sorry you spent most of your life in your Mom's basement and can't conceive how a full grown man could actually carry that weapon, without much overdue exertion, for many miles.

You are certainly not running anywhere fast, I'll grant you that, but just to move it around with you is not that daunting when you've spent a lot of time hunting in real life.

I certainly would want a weapon that can shoot a mile out accurately in a real life scenario, having that much advantage is almost like cheating, except that you'd still have to have the skills to use it.

Certainly the ArmA engine is not overly sophisticated, but it does a fair job at sim'n bullet drop etc. I'll challenge you to fraps proof that you can so easily hit a moving target with one in game, at max range like you claim "it's point and click". I'll volunteer, just tell me your server and I'll act as the rabbit.

[-Gews- 7443]

Since you are calling me out I'll respond.

[...]

First off:

-You wouldn't find M107s in Eastern European countries

-You wouldn't find AS50s anywhere

I certainly would want a weapon that can shoot a mile out accurately in a real life scenario, having that much advantage is almost like cheating, except that you'd still have to have the skills to use it.

When would you realistically have a mile-long line of sight on a person? And why would you try to shoot them from that distance?

Sorry you spent most of your life in your Mom's basement and can't conceive how a full grown man could actually carry that weapon, without much overdue exertion, for many miles.

You are certainly not running anywhere fast, I'll grant you that, but just to move it around with you is not that daunting when you've spent a lot of time hunting in real life.

Puh-lease, any serious hunter isn't using a .50 BMG. Anyone using one is doing it for shits and giggles, and that's fine. And no, hunters won't walk miles with a 30-lb .50 BMG, they load their quads in the truck and use those to transport their shit... :huh:

Your example of spitting mauls shows exactly how stupid you really are if you think carrying a weapon and ammo is anything like carrying 5 unwieldy tools.

It's not stupid at all, go pick up a splitting maul, then imagine 5 of those. That's the weight, there's no arguing the laws of physics. And talking about "unwieldy tools", the M107 is almost 5 feet long.

Yes, you could do it, but it would be like using a supertanker to go jet skiing.

Nobody's answered my question yet - what's wrong with replacing it with a Lapua? Can take out a man in one shot at nearly 2,500 meters (it's been done), powerful enough to kill an elephant, half the weight of a .50 BMG, popular with various militaries and target shooters in Europe and North America, and over 5,000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy...

?

[EliteSkittle 59]

You have totally missed the point.

I assume that you are calling it a simulator over and over because you believe it is simulating reality. Or at least realistic weapon ballistics and such.

Hate to break it to you, it's not. The shooting in this game is hardly more realistic than any other fps.

Also, if you want to use simulation (ie. reality) as a reason, then you can't honestly argue that these weapons should be in the game. They would be so rare that not existing is way more realistic than what we have now.

Also, a .50cal is a retarded weapon to use during a zombie apocalypse. If they do include them, they should be death traps.

I keep calling it a simulator because that is what the intention is. This games sniping mechanics while they are easy to grasp are infact a tad harder then your run of the mill call of duty. And yes I agree using any .50 should be a zombie ridden death sentence because I called it a ZOMBIE simulator. But sadly as this is a mod of a game, it does not live up to all it should be. Now I guess I should make my post far more clear without any explanation for my thoughts as that is what is expected.

These guns exist. or well type of guns and by that I mean .50 or just high damage rifles. So why should they not be found in a game that is to simulate that kind of life that is based off of our own reality?

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Why the argument? Just use some common sense.

To be honest, I love the potential for variety. I don't like the idea of removing weapons, even when they don't fit the theme, but the fact is if these AMRs are included at all, they'll be farmed until everyone and their dog has one anyway, due to their percieved OP reputation.

It'd be better to just get rid of them altogether.

I have to agree with what Gews said. There's no reason a decent .338 couldn't replace them in terms of function.

It would certainly make loadouts less ridiculous.

What's more important IMO is encouraging the use of the correct weapon for particular situations, as opposed to the "AS50 multi-tool" mindset.

@Skittle, shooting mechanics in game are nowhere near representative of authentic weapon handling.

It's essentially exactly the same as any other FPS; Oversimplified and misleading. But that's a subject for a different discussion.

[Saethkept 134]

'It's not going to be about advanced weaponry. The only advanced weapons that are going to be in are the ones with attachments'.

That's what Rocket said at PAX.

So... does this mean no more AS50, M107, MK MOD 0, Fal/NV etc?

Seriously. No more OP point-and-click wonder-wands?

I am cautiously optimistic. I feel that the AS50 and M107 have no place in a game like this, and 'no advanced weapons' is a quote I am quite excited about... But will rocket really deprive the endless rabid hill snipers of their point-and-click killing capabilities?

15:02 is when he says it.

Hope level is through the roof. As a sniper myself, I so hope that this is true.

One probably could look at this ... the DayZ available weapon list, from the perspective of just who you are meant to be when you begin a new game. If an apocalyptic disaster went down which also included the rise of an overwhelmingly outnumbering enemy force of homicidal entities, everything would depend on who you were and what profession you were or had held prior to the situation; and of course the training you had received and mastered. As a soldier, particularly an infantryman - one who had survived the initial chaos of the worldwide violence, you might have access to most of the arsenal available in DayZ. As a law enforcement officer, provided that you survived, you would have access to a variety of small arms, possibly.

However, as joe public - even a combat veteran - and as a civilian survivor/scavenger, the likelihood of your finding by chance a .50 anti-materiel rifle in your travels, is very low. They are a specialist weapon, carried by few units, and I highly doubt they would be removed from domestic armories and deployed against "once human" soft targets. Getting into those armories? It's been awhile, but the armory doors I remember in Army barracks were pretty secure. Ammo was another matter, also well secured but located well away from weapon storage. National Guard or Army Reserver armories? Possibly, but how would you get into them.

It also depends on how much time has passed i.e. how long the weapon you pried from a dead soldier's fingers has been exposed to the element. Of course if the .50 rifle functions, where would you get ammo? How long would it take you to figure out how to accurately deploy it? On and on.

I can do without the hand held artillery. Assault and Designated Marksman rifles are more than enough.

[harryzhe 28]

I still don't understand why people are so protective of their .50 cals... I can't even find a single picture of an AS50 being used in combat, anywhere. M107s, yes, but not AS50s. Given the setting, they're stupid, yup, stuuuuuuuuupidooooooo.

I don't think they belong in this game because [a] no one is going to lug around a 30-lb rifle in a post-apocalyptic world to get those 1000m shots on random dudes and they're not common weapons in the first place, and they're definitely not common in Eastern European backwaters. Why give people the tools to turn a "realistic" zombie survival game (sim) into a military-themed WarZ-style deathmatch?

Replace them with a more realistic 1000m rifle, there are plenty to choose from, Mausers, Accuracy International, SAKO, custom builds...

Why not make the top sniper a TRG-42? Less than half the weight of an M107, relatively popular in Europe and North America as well as among several militaries, and still powerful enough to take out any creature that walks the face of the earth.

This guy is on the money, apart from one thing.

"top sniper" is a myth. IF the game is realistic, there will be a reason to use one rifle over another any time. Scarcity of ammo, weight, noise, ease of maintenance... If there existed a top sniper rifle IRL, how long do you imagine it would take before no other sniper rifles existed any more?

They could keep 50cals in, but you'd have trouble finding enough ammo for them... and if they ever malfunctioned you'd be pretty fucked... and for the weight of one single round of bmg you could carry about 4x .308s... Which, with any well placed shot, would still be a "one shot kill" anyway.

But yes, i totally agree that the gun choices should be based mostly on "feel" - For the same reason we have adidas shoes and blue jeans and hoodies and beanies and motorcycle helmets on most people, and tactical gear on only those who manage to find it... We should have civilian weapons and basic service arms of police and military be the most common.

At the end of the day, which specific guns are picked wont influence actual gameplay much. It's about an aesthetic and creating a believable world. Otherwhise, why not include a matchlock arquebus or a dardick pistol? why not a gyrojet? a hotchkiss universal? they all exist right, so why not?

Oh, and this is an important point too.

Why the argument? Just use some common sense.

To be honest, I love the potential for variety. I don't like the idea of removing weapons, even when they don't fit the theme, but the fact is if these AMRs are included at all, they'll be farmed until everyone and their dog has one anyway, due to their percieved OP reputation.

It'd be better to just get rid of them altogether.

I have to agree with what Gews said. There's no reason a decent .338 couldn't replace them in terms of function.

It would certainly make loadouts less ridiculous.

What's more important IMO is encouraging the use of the correct weapon for particular situations, as opposed to the "AS50 multi-tool" mindset.

@Skittle, shooting mechanics in game are nowhere near representative of authentic weapon handling.

It's essentially exactly the same as any other FPS; Oversimplified and misleading. But that's a subject for a different discussion.

Like this guy says, EVEN IF something is made very rare for "balance" - people will "bias" towards holding onto them and treasuring them and hoarding them in little camps.... so their scarcity will always be influenced artificially by players.

Edited March 27, 2013 by HarryO)))

[Xianyu 820]

Since you are calling me out I'll respond.

That Barret has a harness that supports it and the ammo, so as to distribute the balanced weight accordingly.

Your example of spitting mauls shows exactly how stupid you really are if you think carrying a weapon and ammo is anything like carrying 5 unwieldy tools.

Sorry you spent most of your life in your Mom's basement and can't conceive how a full grown man could actually carry that weapon, without much overdue exertion, for many miles.

You are certainly not running anywhere fast, I'll grant you that, but just to move it around with you is not that daunting when you've spent a lot of time hunting in real life.

I certainly would want a weapon that can shoot a mile out accurately in a real life scenario, having that much advantage is almost like cheating, except that you'd still have to have the skills to use it.

Certainly the ArmA engine is not overly sophisticated, but it does a fair job at sim'n bullet drop etc. I'll challenge you to fraps proof that you can so easily hit a moving target with one in game, at max range like you claim "it's point and click". I'll volunteer, just tell me your server and I'll act as the rabbit.

You know, I played BF3 a lot. It has the same basic 'sim'in' bullet drop as the ARMA engine.

With my M98B, I did some absolutely INSANE shit. I mean, one time, I was watching a guy abuse a glitch. He dropped down an M.A.V. (mobile aerial vehicle or something, a small hovering spybot, basically) jumped on top of it, and then used it to climb upwards at an amazing speed, so he could jump off and land on a crane and snipe from there. He had to be moving at around about 5 metres a second, straight vertically. I was six hundred metres away, being a good little recon out of the line of fire, counter-sniping. I decided to have fun with this mavevator abusing prick.

I shot him in the head as he was shooting upwards. From a distance of 600 metres. With no easy little range-changer, too. Everything in BF3 is done by eyeballing the distances and practise.

And then I did it again. And again. I think it was only three times I managed to shoot him in the head as he was doing this.

No, give me a similar game mechanic, against a moving target, with a weapon that kills with a shot to the CHEST? Puh-leese. That's easy street. If I can headshot a moving target at 400 metres in a game with similar mechanics, then shooting someone in the chest is going to be pretty frigging easy. Add in the distance zeroing, and you have a recipe for death.

Even a twelve year old CoD kiddie could figure out how to adjust for movement at range, and I'm willing to be a lot of them have. It's not so hard to think 'so aim in front of them, then?'

Granted, I'm not sure what latency does to bullets, and my internet sucks lately. Plus, I haven't practised. I tend to shoot stationairy targets, because I know I'll hit them and down them with a single round before they can combat-log.

And you don't need to set up anything. Run through Cherno on a populated server.

I'm sure you'll get sniped sooner or later.

Probably sooner.

[Uncle Zed 272]

It would be very nice if it didn't have those advanced weapons! Yay! :)

[terminal_boy 860]

A load of old flange...

8mm Weatherby Magnum... Basketball sized exit wounds... What's the weather like on your planet?