When is it Okay to KoS?

[Smith Comma John 16]

It is always Okay to KoS. Always. Think of it as encouraged even!

[liquidmind 320]

@OT: reasonable assumption, that the player is out to kill on sight himself.

If Side-chat is mentioning a DMR Ghillie Sniper terrorizing Cherno, and you see someone there, matching that description, it is legitimate to KoS.

If you strafe along sniper hill and notice a sniper, shooting at noobs in the city, it is legitimate to KoS.

If you see a player attacking another player, and you feel that his attack was unfair, it is legitmate to KoS

I also think, it is two different things, wether u encounter a single survivor or a group. As a group provides protection to those in it, as well as more danger to those not in it, they already have a natural advantage. And with groups, you usually don't run into them by accident, not knowing that they were there. Groups are usually a lot more visible than individuals.

1 player, attacking 5 good player, will usually die even if he has the advantage of surprise. Attacking a larger group when alone requires a lot of self confidence and skill, so there is not really a benefit in doing so. 2 Groups encountering each other, are very unlikely to cooperate anyways, as there is no need to find others for teamwork. If they wanted to grow. Adding indiviuduals is usually prefered over merging with another group, just for matters of keeping control.

So in conclusion: You should only KoS individuals if you are sure they KoS other players and will KoS you, if they see you. If you encounter groups, you should be free to attack them, no matter wether you are alone or in an equal sized group.

"Bashing the Weak" just shouldn't be a noble deed. But you should do what you must do to survive.

edit: I like to distinguish between KoS (shooting others on sight, out of fear that they might shoot you) and Deathmatching (the general goal of killing as many player as possible). In this post, I was referring to the general practice of Shooting without warning tough.

Edited March 14, 2013 by liquidmind

[Mr Fluffy 6]

I kill on sight whenever I feel like it, with no apologies, no regrets, and with ease. If you don't like being shot, go to the far reaches of Chernarus, sit down next to a tree, and never move again. Maybe that was how the game was meant to be played?

I don't owe you or anyone else sh-- and that includes your own life. If it is advantageous for me to kill you and take your gear, I am going to do so without hesitation. If you are approaching or inhabiting an area that I am going near, I will kill you, no questions asked.

I don't care why you are there, if you are a bandit or hero, or if you are "friendly". I am not, and I don't expect, or ask anyone else to be. The only time I won't kill on sight, is if you are far enough away to not be a threat, or are heading an opposite direction and my life isn't immediately dependant on eliminating you before you eliminate me.

I enjoy the PvP and PvE aspects of the game. Everyone is welcome to their own play style. If you are a pacifist, feel free to never fire a round, and just go around farming for food and drink. Just don't ask everyone else to do the same. It doesn't make me a bad person for killing a bambi on sight. I paid money for this game, and I intend to play any way I choose.

[applejaxc 2500]

@OT: reasonable assumption, that the player is out to kill on sight himself.

If Side-chat is mentioning a DMR Ghillie Sniper terrorizing Cherno, and you see someone there, matching that description, it is legitimate to KoS.

If you strafe along sniper hill and notice a sniper, shooting at noobs in the city, it is legitimate to KoS.

If you see a player attacking another player, and you feel that his attack was unfair, it is legitmate to KoS

I also think, it is two different things, wether u encounter a single survivor or a group. As a group provides protection to those in it, as well as more danger to those not in it, they already have a natural advantage. And with groups, you usually don't run into them by accident, not knowing that they were there. Groups are usually a lot more visible than individuals.

1 player, attacking 5 good player, will usually die even if he has the advantage of surprise. Attacking a larger group when alone requires a lot of self confidence and skill, so there is not really a benefit in doing so. 2 Groups encountering each other, are very unlikely to cooperate anyways, as there is no need to find others for teamwork. If they wanted to grow. Adding indiviuduals is usually prefered over merging with another group, just for matters of keeping control.

So in conclusion: You should only KoS individuals if you are sure they KoS other players and will KoS you, if they see you. If you encounter groups, you should be free to attack them, no matter wether you are alone or in an equal sized group.

"Bashing the Weak" just shouldn't be a noble deed. But you should do what you must do to survive.

edit: I like to distinguish between KoS (shooting others on sight, out of fear that they might shoot you) and Deathmatching (the general goal of killing as many player as possible). In this post, I was referring to the general practice of Shooting without warning tough.

That defines how I play almost exactly.

Another reason to KoS is if the player being shot is an asshole, though they haven't done shooting.

For example:

I was in Namalsk one day walking around with a FAL, and I see this "Bush" on the floor with a Fal on his back. I assumed he was dead, so I approached to take his ammo. When no context menu option arose for looting, I realized he was playing dead.

So I say:

"Well, hello!" rather dis-engagingly, not wanting to kill this man.

His immediate reply: "FUCK OFF YE BASTARD!"

I know own 2 FALs.

[liquidmind 320]

That defines how I play almost exactly.

Another reason to KoS is if the player being shot is an asshole, though they haven't done shooting.

For example:

I was in Namalsk one day walking around with a FAL, and I see this "Bush" on the floor with a Fal on his back. I assumed he was dead, so I approached to take his ammo. When no context menu option arose for looting, I realized he was playing dead.

So I say:

"Well, hello!" rather dis-engagingly, not wanting to kill this man.

His immediate reply: "FUCK OFF YE BASTARD!"

I know own 2 FALs.

In my books, that's not really KoS. You talked to him first and he verbally attacked you. that's a reasonable kill.

It's like a new-spawn running around you. Talking shit to you, getting close enough to access your backpack. After you told him 2 or 3 times to piss off, no one can blame you for killing him. Even putting a bullet in his leg and letting him rot there, is a valid response in such a situation.

But If you, f.e. are in the forest-region, near the coast, because you just left cherno moving north and you see a freshspawn running on the road into cherno, there is no explanation in the world, that would explain why it is necessary for your survival to turn around and kill him. If you wanted that extra bandage, you could have taken it 30 seconds ago when you passed the hospital. I fear some people don't even see the difference here...

Edit: one of my commanders during military training used to say, that you should never blow away the full degree of being an asshole right away, because there is no way to increase it later. Always be just a slight bit more of an asshole, than the other one.

I respect that in dayZ by not hiding bodies of killed enemies, unless they play unfair in my eyes. I would never destroy a camp, unless I think the owners deserve to loose everything. You never know if you need the other group one day.

I've seen a nice stream playing takistan live, where a group discussed wether attacking another group was a good idea or not, considering that the group sells cheap guns to them. THATs what I'd like to see in DayZ too. that the reason "there is nothing I could want from them" vanishes, because there really can be something.

Edited March 14, 2013 by liquidmind

[applejaxc 2500]

In my books, that's not really KoS. You talked to him first and he verbally attacked you. that's a reasonable kill.

It's like a new-spawn running around you. Talking shit to you, getting close enough to access your backpack. After you told him 2 or 3 times to piss off, no one can blame you for killing him. Even putting a bullet in his leg and letting him rot there, is a valid response in such a situation.

But If you, f.e. are in the forest-region, near the coast, because you just left cherno moving north and you see a freshspawn running on the road into cherno, there is no explanation in the world, that would explain why it is necessary for your survival to turn around and kill him. If you wanted that extra bandage, you could have taken it 30 seconds ago when you passed the hospital. I fear some people don't even see the difference here...

Edit: one of my commanders during military training used to say, that you should never blow away the full degree of being an asshole right away, because there is no way to increase it later. Always be just a slight bit more of an asshole, than the other one.

I respect that in dayZ by not hiding bodies of killed enemies, unless they play unfair in my eyes. I would never destroy a camp, unless I think the owners deserve to loose everything. You never know if you need the other group one day.

I've seen a nice stream playing takistan live, where a group discussed wether attacking another group was a good idea or not, considering that the group sells cheap guns to them. THATs what I'd like to see in DayZ too. that the reason "there is nothing I could want from them" vanishes, because there really can be something.

I want to see Gmod/TF2-style "Tags" you can apply to your gear/clothes to mark them arbitrarily as yours. Just think about what kind of story you could imagine when you killed a bandit and picked up a gun that had 5 notches, a skull-and-crossed-bones, a dragon, and Rainbowdash on it?

The problem there, though, is EVERYONE but me would have a giant-ass penis on their gun/spray painted all over Cherno/on your dead body. (Can you imagine a gun with a giant penis on it shooting white tracers?)

It was a good idea until I thought about how 99.9% of everyone online is a penis-loving homophobe...

Also: What about being able to right-click your hoodie and choosing "Hood up" or "Hood down" ? It wouldn't have any game effect, really... but it'd help roleplaying.

"Oh, it's raining. Hood up."

"Oh, I'm sniping. Hood up."

"Oh, there's a guy. Hood down."

[liquidmind 320]

I want to see Gmod/TF2-style "Tags" you can apply to your gear/clothes to mark them arbitrarily as yours. Just think about what kind of story you could imagine when you killed a bandit and picked up a gun that had 5 notches, a skull-and-crossed-bones, a dragon, and Rainbowdash on it?

The problem there, though, is EVERYONE but me would have a giant-ass penis on their gun/spray painted all over Cherno/on your dead body. (Can you imagine a gun with a giant penis on it shooting white tracers?)

It was a good idea until I thought about how 99.9% of everyone online is a penis-loving homophobe...

Also: What about being able to right-click your hoodie and choosing "Hood up" or "Hood down" ? It wouldn't have any game effect, really... but it'd help roleplaying.

"Oh, it's raining. Hood up."

"Oh, I'm sniping. Hood up."

"Oh, there's a guy. Hood down."

Rocket said something about every Item storing it's history so that at least the system knows who owned the item. This will help spread diseases and maybe allow dogs to find the former owner after he switched clothes somewhere.

I like the idea of customization, but you might solve the issue by making the things lootable. You could find a huge yellow smiley to sew on your jeans-jacket or Stickers to put on your Rifle. They'd just have to avoid anything that could be assembled to look like a penis, to avoid the problem you tackled there :-)

Considering hoodie on and off, that should make a difference during rain and in cold weather, but it could muffle the sound of your surroundings a bit. It would be awesome if sound was affected by what covers your ears... bike-helmets to the trashbin! where you deserve to go you ugly pieces....

[applejaxc 2500]

Rocket said something about every Item storing it's history so that at least the system knows who owned the item. This will help spread diseases and maybe allow dogs to find the former owner after he switched clothes somewhere.

I like the idea of customization, but you might solve the issue by making the things lootable. You could find a huge yellow smiley to sew on your jeans-jacket or Stickers to put on your Rifle. They'd just have to avoid anything that could be assembled to look like a penis, to avoid the problem you tackled there :-)

Considering hoodie on and off, that should make a difference during rain and in cold weather, but it could muffle the sound of your surroundings a bit. It would be awesome if sound was affected by what covers your ears... bike-helmets to the trashbin! where you deserve to go you ugly pieces....

The bike helmets look like ridiculous pieces of plastic designed to absorb IMPACTS not BALLISTICS. I want to tell Rocket he's an idiot if he thinks a motorcycle helmet will make a difference to a 5.56 at normal assault rifle ranges. Dead is dead, helmet or not helmet.

Now maybe vs. melee combat/zombies, a helmet would be nice...

I remember when I was little and my dad and I took a HMMWV out into "The Box" of California. If the metal doors of a light-armored US military vehicle couldn't stop my .45ACP, a plastic helmet isn't going to do crap vs. anything smaller than a 9mm. (It MIGHT be able to stop .22 plinking rounds...)

I really want to see a player ragdoll (but survive) wrecking his motorcycle, and when he stands up, there's blood splatter all over his helmet but he's okay (other than missing a few hundred blood). ONLY that could convince me to wear a helmet in DayZ.

---Maybe there could be helmets that don't allow NVGs (like motorcycle helmets) and helmets with them built in (like one of the scifi-looking Russian ones in A3)?

The ragdolls really need to remain some muscle rigidity when they die; falling backwards and folding your legs doesn't make sense when you're shot in the back.

[-Gews- 7443]

I want to tell Rocket he's an idiot if he thinks a motorcycle helmet will make a difference to a 5.56 at normal assault rifle ranges. Dead is dead, helmet or not helmet.

From what I understood, the helmet will only protect against melee attacks like the hatchet or crowbar.

I hope I understood right!

[Crusader- 26]

From what I understood, the helmet will only protect against melee attacks like the hatchet or crowbar.

I hope I understood right!

I think your right, from what i took watching the dev blog anyways.

as for the kos argument i think its too much of a blanket question... i mean there are maaannyy different circumstances which you could come into contact with somebody, some of them warrant a kos, some of them warrant a line of two before deciding and some of them are best dealt with by simply watching the player over a couple of minutes, assuming your still hidden... which you should be.

[applejaxc 2500]

From what I understood, the helmet will only protect against melee attacks like the hatchet or crowbar.

I hope I understood right!

I think you're right... that's why I said if Rocket thinks :)

[VisionTwelve 24]

If you see a sniper on the hills of Elektro or Cherno, please do not hesitate to kill them.

The ammount of times I've got killed by "friendlies" on elektro/cherno hills hunting snipers is insane... ...guess being up there makes yoiu a bandit/sniper

[applejaxc 2500]

The ammount of times I've got killed by "friendlies" on elektro/cherno hills hunting snipers is insane... ...guess being up there makes yoiu a bandit/sniper

I'm not a risk taker in Cherno/Elektro/big cities in custom maps. Too many bad memories >.>

[tommes 331]

Not everybody wearing a bandit skin is evil. You get one easily by just defending yourself. KoS'ing just because of that stupid game mechanic is about as a'hole as beeing a noobhunter.

[terminal_boy 860]

What triggers KoS for me where KoS provides a significantly better chance for my survival than staying hidden:

- Bandit skin

- Ghillie suit

- Sniper rifle

- Player clearly trying to stalk me.

-

[VisionTwelve 24]

I'm not a risk taker in Cherno/Elektro/big cities in custom maps. Too many bad memories >.>

i just like trying to clear snipers

[applejaxc 2500]

What triggers KoS for me where KoS provides a significantly better chance for my survival than staying hidden:

- Bandit skin

- Ghillie suit

- Sniper rifle

- Player clearly trying to stalk me.

-

Same here, although I don't kill people just because they have a CZ 550; they're pretty common for coastal noobs.

[leviski 2152]

Furthermore: What do you do when trapped in a giant gunfight, consisting of over 30 people, who you don't know or trust?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVjfb4eziFg

Not a very pro sniper shot, I made a shot from 600 meters away with a lee enfeild and nailed the poor guy in the head.

[applejaxc 2500]

Not a very pro sniper shot, I made a shot from 600 meters away with a lee enfeild and nailed the poor guy in the head.

Try 1K meters on a pilot going 100MPH in a UH. :)

[fittytucker69 5]

OP is not playing legitimately look at the layout of his inventory

[applejaxc 2500]

As for the newer updates, zombies CAN climb ladders, see it all the time now. I'm actually very surprised you weren't killed while shooting the zombies from the tower, all those corpses would give a person away I imagine.

Luck. All luck. The next 2 videos, some zombies climbed a ladder and threw me off a construction crane. >.>

[applejaxc 2500]

OP is not playing legitimately look at the layout of his inventory

About half of the topics I start mention "OP" at one point, and it doesn't refer to "Over Powered." Are you trying to say "Original Post" and accuse me of illegitimate play, or...? I'm concerned. :)

[puzdre 4]

i only Kos on the NEAF and hely chrashes. thats ninja teritory :ph34r:

[Korsbaek 1778]

I kill on sight whenever I feel like it, with no apologies, no regrets, and with ease. If you don't like being shot, go to the far reaches of Chernarus, sit down next to a tree, and never move again. Maybe that was how the game was meant to be played?

I don't owe you or anyone else sh-- and that includes your own life. If it is advantageous for me to kill you and take your gear, I am going to do so without hesitation. If you are approaching or inhabiting an area that I am going near, I will kill you, no questions asked.

I don't care why you are there, if you are a bandit or hero, or if you are "friendly". I am not, and I don't expect, or ask anyone else to be. The only time I won't kill on sight, is if you are far enough away to not be a threat, or are heading an opposite direction and my life isn't immediately dependant on eliminating you before you eliminate me.

I enjoy the PvP and PvE aspects of the game. Everyone is welcome to their own play style. If you are a pacifist, feel free to never fire a round, and just go around farming for food and drink. Just don't ask everyone else to do the same. It doesn't make me a bad person for killing a bambi on sight. I paid money for this game, and I intend to play any way I choose.

Dis...

[krihelion 175]

Kill everyone