Addressing the two biggest complaints regarding First Person

[guyver1 70]

http://youtu.be/SxRCS35SUuk

This video is to address the common complaints I've seen in every thread arguing over first person v third person.

This is NOT to convince the devs to favor one or the other.

I made the video purely to address directly, the complaints about the two issues:

1. Headbob

2. FOV

Hopefully, this will show a few people that its very simple to address both issues and maybe some people would like to give first person another go.

Enjoy.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

Unfortunately, the biggest incentive to use third person is looking around obstacles.

[Max Planck 7174]

Headbob can be turned off, FOV will be fixed in the SA.

I didn't watch your video, but what your post describes is not what the 1st/3rd person argument is about.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Max Planck

[guyver1 70]

Headbob can be turned off, FOV will be fixed in the SA.

I didn't watch your video, but what your post describes is not what the 1st/3rd person argument is about.

I didn't say it was 'about' the 1st/3rd argument as a whole.

I specifically said that the video addresses two of the most commonly used 'reasons' for not giving 1st person a decent amount of time and simply defaulting to 3rd person.

[Max Planck 7174]

I didn't say it was 'about' the 1st/3rd argument as a whole.

I specifically said that the video addresses two of the most commonly used 'reasons' for not giving 1st person a decent amount of time and simply defaulting to 3rd person.

You want people to watch 6 minutes of video to 'address' something that is as simple as this:

Headbob can be turned off, FOV will be fixed in the SA.

?

[guyver1 70]

Have you seen the number of people who complain about headbob simply because they don't actually know its an option?!!?

Its insane!

every 1st/3rd thread has any number of people complaining about the headbob. It doesn't take a genius to realise that they're complaining about it because they dont know the option even exists to turn it off!

[Scawtygs 20]

i watched your video, and i know this is an old argument. But i was a little surprised that you'd assume that people were double tapping left-alt, rather than just holding it down. That's about one of the first things i learned about in DayZ (thanks to using 3rd person) so that i could look around things or around my character as i was running, or sighting around corners. And i found out about turning of the FOV by accident, but had already used 1st person many times before (especially in firefights, there's something about having your eyes behind the gun that makes shooting easier, rather than just crosshairs off in the distance) SO once i fixed the FOV, I began using 1st person in most instances other than when i am 'exploring and scouting'. So i use both for their distinctive advantages. If SA sticks us under one or the other, i'll be a bit disappointed, but not wholly hurt.

[Positronica 30]

Fixing the deficiencies of first person view would be great, especially for the players who primarily make use of first person view, but that's where it should ends. Right now third person view is a fun, and very enjoyable way to play the game, that a lot of people choose to make use of. People like being able to see their character's body, people like having awareness of their character's immediate surroundings, people like the naturally wider field of view that third person gives, and yes, people like the greater than natural, but highly cinematic perception of the world that it gives. I understand that some people just hate the concept of third person, but that's a personal problem. The game already caters to those people fully, in that you can choose to never enter third person view if you don't want to, and if you can't stand the idea of other players around you doing so, there are even first person only servers for you to play on. The point being, that if you're a player who enjoys first person view, then go right ahead and advocate for improvements to your view of choice, but there's no need to advocate for the removal of a feature that you don't use, but is enjoyed by a lot of other players, especially when the game already gives you the option of 100% avoiding that feature.

(This message wasn't really directed at the Op. It's more just a response to how these threads always seem to go.)

[jman 8]

I wonder how many people know you can increase FOV by double tapping the minus key on the numpad?

[com1 10]

looking behind walls

and

being at disatvantage if you are prone in tall grass (whole view blocked by grass) while your enemy dont see any grass at a certain distance and can see you clearly. It would be fair if you can hide in tall grass but you cant at the moment. Or give us the option (like its already in arma2) to disable grass at all (terraingrid 50).

Edited February 27, 2013 by com1

[guyver1 70]

looking behind walls

and

being at disatvantage if you are prone in tall grass (whole view blocked by grass) while your enemy dont see any grass at a certain distance and can see you clearly. It would be fair if you can hide in tall grass but you cant at the moment. Or give us the option (like its already in arma2) to disable grass at all (terraingrid 50).

Totally agree with the grass issue. Although once you find out about that, you basically never go prone in grass again unless you absolutely have to, just keep running and weaving and make yourself a wibbly wobbly moving target as best you can.

[dallas 5195]

I just prefer third person view, because it's a legit feature of the game and not a cheat.

Calling third person view a cheat, is the same as calling iron sights an accuracy cheat.

[Max Planck 7174]

I just prefer third person view, because it's a legit feature of the game and not a cheat.

Calling third person view a cheat, is the same as calling iron sights an accuracy cheat.

Arh Dallas, that one is a little one the rough side.

Iron sights are iron sights, 3rdP gives you something extra, something that could never be possible in reality. The ability to look through solid objects.

[guyver1 70]

I just prefer third person view, because it's a legit feature of the game and not a cheat.

Calling third person view a cheat, is the same as calling iron sights an accuracy cheat.

Logical fallacy as I live and breathe.

The day your eyes can extend 10 meters behind your head to allow you to look over things and around corners is the day those two will be comparable.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

Fixing the deficiencies of first person view would be great, especially for the players who primarily make use of first person view, but that's where it should ends. Right now third person view is a fun, and very enjoyable way to play the game, that a lot of people choose to make use of. People like being able to see their character's body, people like having awareness of their character's immediate surroundings, people like the naturally wider field of view that third person gives, Double Tapping - gives you a wider FOV in first person, wider than third person. and yes, people like the greater than natural, but highly cinematic perception of the world that it gives.But, it allows people to camp on Cherno rooftops, sniping people while putting themselves at no harm. It makes the gameplay a lot less intense, because there's way fewer surprises. I understand that some people just hate the concept of third person, but that's a personal problem. No, it's not. There are legitimate reasons to remove or at least balance third person, and if DayZ never had it in the first place then noone would complain. The game already caters to those people fully, in that you can choose to never enter third person view if you don't want to, Although that puts them at a huge disadvantage. and if you can't stand the idea of other players around you doing so, there are even Like, three first person only servers for you to play on. The point being, that if you're a player who enjoys first person view, then go right ahead and advocate for improvements to your view of choice, but there's no need to advocate for the removal of a feature that you don't use, but is enjoyed by a lot of other players, especially when the game already gives you the option of 100% avoiding that feature. It's not as easy as it sounds.

(This message wasn't really directed at the Op. It's more just a response to how these threads always seem to go.)

Third person should be nerfed so it gives no advantages over first person, so we aren't dividing the community. The only way it should be used is to see one's character, or give a more 'cinematic' experience. Maybe a screen where you could see your character from all angles would help with that.

If we get rid of the ability to peek over obstacles or see players out of our character's line of sight, then I'm all for it being included, but I doubt as many people would use it in that case.

Some people say that it's ok since everyone can use it so it's not unfair. But then we could just put Halo-style radar in couldn't we? We'll give it to everybody, so it's not unfair, though. I don't think the fact that everyone can peek over walls is unfair to anyone, but it kind of ruins the gameplay and suspense.

[sp86 508]

Arh Dallas, that one is a little one the rough side.

Iron sights are iron sights, 3rdP gives you something extra, something that could never be possible in reality. The ability to look through solid objects.

In real life the human eye doesn't fisheye above 95 degrees.

[Max Planck 7174]

In real life the human eye doesn't fisheye above 95 degrees.

And?

3rdP and 1stP can't play together. Because 3rdP can see 1stP when 1stP can't see 3rdP.

That, is the problem.

[gamerman001 182]

well the reason the game has both is so you can choose so there shouldnt even be a conflict.... But the internet will internet I suppose. Also the head bobbing can be shut off and adjusted in the game options.

[sp86 508]

And?

3rdP and 1stP can't play together. Because 3rdP can see 1stP when 1stP can't see 3rdP.

That, is the problem.

It's also a choice. I switch between the two as condition calls for it. If you choose to handicap yourself that's not the defect of one who does not, no more than a DMR is unfair because you choose to only play with a crossbow.

Edited February 27, 2013 by sp86

[dallas 5195]

Logical fallacy as I live and breathe.

The day your eyes can extend 10 meters behind your head to allow you to look over things and around corners is the day those two will be comparable.

DayZ is not a first person shooter, unless you join an first person server.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Third person looks much better than first person at low frame rates and on low end computers.

Here's my suggested solution.

While in third person = weapon down, you cannot aim anything but melee weapons and thrown items.

When crouched, the camera zooms in about 50%.

When prone camera zooms quite a bit. (about what we get when holding down +, perhaps more?)

This would force building top snipers to expose themselves to spot targets, allow third person to still be used for a lot of traveling and stealth, and I feel it would create more tension while playing in third person. Going into first person would raise your weapon.

[guyver1 70]

DayZ is not a first person shooter, unless you join an first person server.

Its not a third person shooter either, unless you join a .... oh wait, that's right, third person only servers don't exist....

[GotBeanZ 45]

If balance is a concern, then 3rd Person should be removed. In the long run people will get used to it. Period.

[dallas 5195]

And that in it's simplicity is how ArmA's difficulty hierarchy works.

The lower the difficulty level the more features you have available.

[Positronica 30]

And?

3rdP and 1stP can't play together. Because 3rdP can see 1stP when 1stP can't see 3rdP.

That, is the problem.

It's obviously not a problem as evident by the fact that nearly the entire playerbase routinely chooses to play on servers that allow third person, even though they have the option of playing where third person isn't allowed. In other words, the game isn't broke. The playerbase, by their own action, in overwhelming numbers, has shown that third person and first person CAN play together. A first person only version of DayZ already exists, and the playerbase has chosen almost unanimously to ignore it. It makes no sense to force the playerbase to accept something that has essentially already been play tested and rejected.

Oh, and Dallas is right, third person view isn't cheating, though a better analogy would be to say that third person view is no more of a cheat than using a morphine auto-injector to fix a broken leg is a cheat. DayZ is a game first, and a simulation second, which means the enjoyability of the gameplay always needs to take precedence over the realism of the simulator.