Why make instanced or underground bases?

[thesodesa 99]

That or they could remove the ability to server hop and make it so your character on each server is unique to that server.

That would work, but doing so would remove one of the original selling points of DayZ, persistent characters over multiple servers.

I'd be ok with it anyway. I currently play on only one server so this wouldn't change anything for me.

Edited February 27, 2013 by TheSodesa

[m.w. vindicator 880]

I play casually, maybe a couple of hours during the week and a bit more on weekends. I have a wife, four kids and a full time job. I can't be on 24/7 yet I accept the fact that my crap will get stolen. That's why I set my camps up in remote locations, moving them occasionally, and always keep my most treasured possessions on me. When I first started the game, I knew I wouldn't be playing a whole lot and didn't even bother setting up a camp.

This was intended as a suggestion for content for larger groups of more serious players, people who are on regularly and have enough members that they could keep a pretty good eye on a base. Since big groups tend to have lots of gear I thought this would make raiding their base more challenging, but the reward would be worth it.

I think you're confused, we're talking about having pre-existing structures now, that groups could repair and maintain. If it's a pre-existing structure, why couldn't there be an electronic lock? The power would need to be restored to the facility before it was operational, but keypad locks do exist. I wasn't saying an underground research facility, I was thinking more of a normal office building with an underground parking garage. Which, yeah, actually does exist, too. What's Sci-Fi about a prison, a missile silo, a medical research facility or a military one? I'd say the existence of Zombies in the game is far more Sci-FI than any of those.

Ok, that alleviates some of my fears. I was thinking it would be an "owners only" type of instance. As long as it can still be raided, I'm more or less okay.

That makes some sense. I never saw the transitions to pre-apocalyptic structures but what. KeyLocks could work if power was restored. Underground bunkers would be cool. I would prefer they be instanced though. Imagine the amount of detail that could go into the little world. The engine is used to dealing with massive outdoor areas. I bet and instanced underground structure could have an immense amount of detail to it.

[Jeremiah Cross 55]

My only holdup about having bases being separate "zones", and I feel a bit awkward saying this with how much this has been thrown around lately, is that it might ruin the immersion. I mean, it's no Herpy Dooves Canned Muffins :P , but loading screens are a bit distracting.

[liquidmind 320]

The problem of server hopping behind the owners of the structure isn't solved, unless it is an owned instance that random people can't enter. Therefore I'm still against instances, because I want to have to possibility of going everywhere on the map.

The instance should be accessible by everyone, otherwise this would really kill the immersion, as it would provide a 100% safe spot.

The argument about server-change is very good tough. People would want to log out in their base, but if they log onto another server after that, the base might not even exist there.

Considering server-hopping, i thought that it might be solved by saving the position on each server, so when you start on a new server, you have to start back at the coast. this wouldn't solve the issue tough, as it would stop people from continuing to play on another server, while it would allow even easier server-hopping, as you'd just need to stay in your base on your server, log into another, loot, log back and unload. no running whatsoever required. Definitely an Issue that has to be looked at very close.

My only holdup about having bases being separate "zones", and I feel a bit awkward saying this with how much this has been thrown around lately, is that it might ruin the immersion. I mean, it's no Herpy Dooves Canned Muffins :P , but loading screens are a bit distracting.

having bases as separate zones was suggested as a measure of balancing the server-load, as no server could handle 100 complex over-ground bases. Just too much detail. The loading time is a compromise therefor and wouldn't be as long as regular loading, as the sub-world is a lot smaller.

Considering that, it is more comparable to having zombies spawn in when players get close. There is only a finite way of solving these issues on modern PCs so that it runs well.

Can-designs on the other hand, have an almost infinite variety of possibilities, that don't affect performance in any way.

This argument, at that point, is nothing more than pouring fuel into the fire. Let it go. please.

[thesodesa 99]

An underground bunker could have a locked hatch possibly. Also wouldn't it be possible to cover the entrance over with leaves. No one would ever find it unless they have coordinates.

Keep in mind though that I'm not talking about these things spawning in random locations on the map, but having them be as static buildings, as a part of the map. They'd be the same for every server so after a while everybody would know where they are. It would be a matter of whether people want to take advantage of the features that the building/prop provides.

Another example of a functional prop/facility would be a locomotive, that could be found in a random location on the tracks already present on the map (more tracks could be added of course). It couldn't be derailed (because of technical limitations), but it could be made operational and driven around by the players.

A recent thread discussing trains:

http://dayzmod.com/f.../126287-trains/

Edited March 8, 2013 by TheSodesa

[Jeremiah Cross 55]

Considering that, it is more comparable to having zombies spawn in when players get close. There is only a finite way of solving these issues on modern PCs so that it runs well.

Can-designs on the other hand, have an almost infinite variety of possibilities, that don't affect performance in any way.

This argument, at that point, is nothing more than pouring fuel into the fire. Let it go. please.

I'm well aware that can design doesn't effect performance. I was making a joke while expressing my opinion that loading screens would ruin immersion. I am personally of the camp that liked the new food items and though many of the names were actually really funny. But we really don't need another can thread, so let's move on.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

Keep in mind though that I'm not talking about these things spawning in random locations on the map, but having them be as static buildings, as a part of the map. They'd be the same for every server so after a while everybody would know where they are. It would be a matter of whether people want to take advantage of the features that the building/prop provides.

Another example of a functional prop/facility would be a locomotive, that could be found in a random location on the tracks already present on the map (more tracks could be added of course). It couldn't be derailed, but it could be made operational and driven around by the players.

A recent thread discussing trains:

http://dayzmod.com/f.../126287-trains/

I a sayin people wouldn't know about player made bases. If they

put bases on the map, then off course everyone would know where they are

Edited March 1, 2013 by Vindicator

[thesodesa 99]

Base building outside of instances was never an option, considering the amount of players a single server is going to support. I'm wondering why the option of making it possible to reconstruct some of the pre-apocalypse facilities to their former glory and function isn't more popular among the community, considering everybody seems to know about the server limitations by now.

You know, things like an underground bunker, whose electrical systems could be repaired, and a security system activated. A major plantation could be cultivated, but a security perimeter, similar to the electric fence in the second chapter of walking dead game would be needed to keep the zombies out. A central radio tower could be maintained to keep transmissions working across the map. Put a few smaller power plants that could be fixed on the map to produce power to different cities in addition to the power plant in Elektro, that only seems to be connected to the major coastal cities.

Having static control points like these on the map is a completely valid option in my view, and a better option to instancing in as well. The people and player factions in control of these facilities would be in a powerful position, since by controlling a power-plant for example, you could deny power from some parts of the map. You could also make some facilities dependent on each other, for example the bunker could be dependent on a certain power plant to produce its power.

People would be fighting over these facilities, and since fairly large groups of people would be required to maintain their function and security, people would be encouraged to band together. Implement the often mentioned mini games to the maintaining and fixing operations, so that people who know nothing about electricity could not for example perform the maintenance operations of a power plant safely.

Seems like a pretty kick-ass end game to me.

I never got around to discussing the technical implementation side of this, but this guy beat me to it:

http://dayzmod.com/f...ggestion-bases/

Essentially what this would mean is that the buildings that could be altered would have to be made into objects, similar to how the guns and vehicles will be in the standalone.

Chabowski also had a well worded idea for keeping the server load down, when it comes to barricading:

http://dayzmod.com/f...20#entry1227427

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EDIT: Too bad you can't link to individual posts :(.

EDIT: I'm an idiot.

Edited March 8, 2013 by TheSodesa

[thesodesa 99]

What would bring the server load down even more, is making the fortifications a part of the structures, and have them be in different states. This goes for any other parts of the facilities as well. For example you could make the power generator in the power plant to be handled as an attachment to the building, kind of like the gun attachments are in the SA.

Edited March 11, 2013 by TheSodesa

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

@Sodesa

If you right click the post number on the right hand side (this will be #35) that link will be to the specific post within a topic.

EDIT:

If you already knew that, I just made myself look like a fudd. ^_^

Edited March 8, 2013 by Chabowski

[thesodesa 99]

@Sodesa

If you right click the post number on the right hand side (this will be #35) that link will be to the specific post within a topic.

EDIT:

If you already knew that, I just made myself look like a fudd. ^_^

Thanks.

I actually learned something useful today. :)

[TacticalLeaf (DayZ) 5]

The whole base building thing dont worry about it rocket is thinking hrd on how people wouldnt abuse it plus there wouldnt be really a hole for you to fall down i pretty sure if my meomry is right that might be a manhole because the whole under ground would be difffrent from top side so it would cause any performace issue and save on fps basically like a whole new world

[joe_mcentire 2074]

The whole base building thing dont worry about it rocket is thinking hrd on how people wouldnt abuse it plus there wouldnt be really a hole for you to fall down i pretty sure if my meomry is right that might be a manhole because the whole under ground would be difffrent from top side so it would cause any performace issue and save on fps basically like a whole new world

well the reason we are talking about these things is, that we could give some nice suggestions to start with and they can focus on develop those things further. this means maybe shorter "time-to-market" and could also bring up ideas which they eventually would never have thought of.

our suggestions add to a huge brainstorming.

Edited March 13, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[thesodesa 99]

The whole base building thing dont worry about it rocket is thinking hrd on how people wouldnt abuse it plus there wouldnt be really a hole for you to fall down i pretty sure if my meomry is right that might be a manhole because the whole under ground would be difffrent from top side so it would cause any performace issue and save on fps basically like a whole new world

And by the way, both Rocket and Matt have explicitly said that they are NOT thinking about these things until the basic gameplay mechanics and working vehicles are implemented.

Therefore it would be nice if we as a community could come up with a good idea (that's realistic from an engineering standpoint) for the structures in advance, so they can spend less time brainstorming and more time coding.

Edited March 16, 2013 by TheSodesa

[Hoj0 (DayZ) 31]

http://images.zap2it.com/images/tv-EP01240093/hoarding-buried-alive.jpg

if you guys want to build bases, go play starcraft, this is a survival game, not hoarders. I like the idea of a few things mentioned here but having forts and shit out in the middle of the woods sounds a lot like wasteland to me. I'de rather see something like lockable doors on existing structures, or have ways to hide weapons under floorboards/in walls/under couch cushions or whatever, you are a person surviving an apocolypse, not a construction foreman lol.

[Death_Dealer 3155]

if you guys want to build bases, go play starcraft, this is a survival game, not hoarders. [...] you are a person surviving an apocolypse, not a construction foreman lol.

In a real zombie apocalypse, survivors would try to find a place of refuge, not run around the forest eating beef and drinking pond water.

[Hoj0 (DayZ) 31]

In a real zombie apocalypse, survivors would try to find a place of refuge, not run around the forest eating beef and drinking pond water.

then go clear a town of zombies and wall it off, not say hey fuck it lets build a GERD DERM CERSTLE RERT HERRR IN DERR WERDDDSSSS

Edited March 17, 2013 by Hoj0

[Death_Dealer 3155]

not say hey fuck it lets build a GERD DERM CERSTLE RERT HERRR IN DERR WERDDDSSSS

I never said that or mentioned that?

I'm assuming your idea of a base is something large like a castle, but in my eyes a base can be as small as a simple tent.

[Hoj0 (DayZ) 31]

Tents are fine, or even Lean-to's or a bunch of branches leaned up against a tree, even hiding stuff up in trees, but full size structures and walls like what some of the stuff i was reading is suggesting just seems like too much.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

Tents are fine, or even Lean-to's or a bunch of branches leaned up against a tree, even hiding stuff up in trees, but full size structures and walls like what some of the stuff i was reading is suggesting just seems like too much.

well unfortunately dean and his team consider (instanced) bases... now what? better we try to constructively discuss that topic. And when you say "go play xxx" you basically say this in deans face.

In a real zombie apocalypse, survivors would try to find a place of refuge, not run around the forest eating beef and drinking pond water.

+1. you do realize we are no animals..therefore we would always try to re-establish a somewhat functioning society -->bases, safe zones, havens...

Edited March 17, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[Hoj0 (DayZ) 31]

well unfortunately dean and his team consider (instanced) bases... now what? better we try to constructively discuss that topic. And when you say "go play xxx" you basically say this in deans face.

+1. you do realize we are no animals..therefore we would always try to re-establish a somewhat functioning society -->bases, safe zones, havens...

I dont really care if they add it to the game, but having it so people can flood the edges of the map with random bullshit is what I'm talking about, if its instanced, fine by me. But I just don't want to be running through the woods survivoring and run into a Metropolis of useless unneeded crap. We already have a bunch of cities on the map, theoretically it would be easier to just clear out a city of zombies and burn all the bodies than to build a new one, having small simple structures is fine to me, I just don't want it abused to the point where every server I go to has someone re-spawning and running to their based to re-arm, it removes the whole concept of YOU ARE DEAD Instead it will be, hey i died, let me go grab something from all this gear i stashed in my hovel.

People who own servers are already adding base's to their mission files, why make it standard so everyone has to deal with it.

idk, i just feel its unneeded. It takes away from the concept of survival and turns this into Sim's 4 with zombies.

[thesodesa 99]

I dont really care if they add it to the game, but having it so people can flood the edges of the map with random bullshit is what I'm talking about, if its instanced, fine by me. But I just don't want to be running through the woods survivoring and run into a Metropolis of useless unneeded crap. We already have a bunch of cities on the map, theoretically it would be easier to just clear out a city of zombies and burn all the bodies than to build a new one, having small simple structures is fine to me, I just don't want it abused to the point where every server I go to has someone re-spawning and running to their based to re-arm, it removes the whole concept of YOU ARE DEAD Instead it will be, hey i died, let me go grab something from all this gear i stashed in my hovel.

People who own servers are already adding base's to their mission files, why make it standard so everyone has to deal with it.

idk, i just feel its unneeded. It takes away from the concept of survival and turns this into Sim's 4 with zombies.

Nobody was ever talking about having base maintenance like it used to be in the mod, where you could place barricades and other junk on the ground to block people off. The barricading mechanic would work in such a way, that for example a door in a pre-existing cottage has 3 states, open, closed and barricaded. For the door to be barricaded one has to find a hammer, boards and nails, Then use those on the door and voila, it's barricaded. No junk on the ground causing lag and annoying people.

This is only an example of how one could barricade a smaller cottage building that is somewhere off in the woods. The bigger ones, like hangars and larger car shops and stuff have electronic locks. That means the power station in Elektro (or somewhere else) has to be fixed, powered on and maintained to make these doors and other equipment inside work again. This other equipment could include a hoist in a car/boat/helicopter shop in Cherno, which would have to be used to switch engines or rotor assemblies. Fixing vehicles is too easy and not very authentic at the moment, so making these pre-existing structures a part of the fixing process would add to the challenge and authenticity. When is the last time you saw someone lifting a rotor assembly on a chopper with no help from a machine?

Essentially these specific buildings would be like the guns and vehicles in the SA, with fixable, static (as in non-placeable = not annoying/game breaking) parts and equipment, that deteriorate over time as they are used, and have to be maintained. This would of course not apply to all buildings(too much work). Just have a few larger ones with an obvious function, like a car shop/helicopter hangar, in the major cities/military bases and and a few smaller cottages around the map. Another one could be a radio station with fixable broadcasting equipment (for all those people who have been asking for a car radio).

Edited March 17, 2013 by TheSodesa

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Nobody was ever talking about having base maintenance like it used to be in the mod, where you could place barricades and other junk on the ground to block people off.

I was. And I still am.

Folks seem to be forgetting the massive extention to play-area we'll have when Chernarus+ and all its enterable buildings are open for business, too.

A barricaded door or road isn't a problem. There's plenty other places to go.

In any case, you should be able to remove other peoples barricades, it just takes time.

We already have a bunch of cities on the map, theoretically it would be easier to just clear out a city of zombies and burn all the bodies than to build a new one

Building entire fortresses isn't on the cards, or shouldn't be.

The Mad Max "Junktown" that people seem to envisage whenever anyone mentions "bases", just wouldn't make sense.

What WOULD make sense is the opportunity to fortify a _^small area to enough of an extent that zeds wont overrun you, and you could potentially defend it from attackers.

Of course, it makes sense to use an existing building as the foundation of your "base" (for many reasons) but you certainly shouldn't be limited to existing buildings.

That's my opinion anyway.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Chabowski

[TacticalLeaf (DayZ) 5]

Didnt at one point they considered terra forming but dropped it due to people may grief with it

[thesodesa 99]

Didnt at one point they considered terra forming but dropped it due to people may grief with it

Yeah, it was mentioned last summer by Dean. It's just another one of those things that would cause lag, because players would have to download the changes every time someone changes something in the terrain. It's the same thing with placeable items.

Edited March 18, 2013 by TheSodesa