Instead of skill system, implement handbooks

[vaevictis 18]

We do not want a skill system or micro skill system for Dayz standalone...

No grinding is needed for this kind of game.

You should be as good as you are in the game based on your skills, not the skills of your character.

A simple idea which would help beginners and would also teach us is helpful handbooks in a game.

An example:

Handbook for flying a helicopter

This handbook would be like simple in game manual (press that switch, turn the lever, etc.).

Picture yourself a simple tutorial.

So if you are a novice and it is a first time you see a helicopter, you can still fly it with this handbook as it shows you how.

If you are a veteran and you have been playing a game for some time, you can do all the stuff from your head and do not need a handbook to show you how to fly.

Also the whole process of flying a helicopter would consist of pressing the switch, turning the levers etc., or in a case of changing a tire, unscrew the bolts, put tire on, screw the bolts, so the whole process would mimic real life as similar as possible, so you can learn of doing different things by playing a game.

Handbook is not a requirement for doing any action, only a helpful tool for beginners ...

The time of actions and probability of successful action would be the same without the handbook or with the handbook.

The similar idea could also be translated into repairing a car, fixing a leg, adjusting the windage and elevation of your scope, repairing a gun,...

Many handbooks throughout the zombie infected land.

Handbooks for flying a helicopter, windage and elevation would spawn in military zones.

Handbooks for healing people, setting bones, giving IV would spawn in hospitals.

Fixing a car, fixing a helicopter would spawn in a industrial zones.

Changing a tire, making camps, getting meat from animals would spawn in regular houses.

The DayZ SA would teach us, how to survive in the wilderness, repair cars, set bones etc.

The similar way it taught many of us how to navigate with compass or only just the watch.

[intensity (DayZ) 312]

DayZ: The Reading Simulator

[joe_mcentire 2074]

so reading a book would lead to..what? you still would need the mini-games to use the recently learned or are you suggesting that you need to read books first to insta-do things or should the just be to make game easier for them who find the books (which would be bullocks btw)? you see not quite thought through in my opinion...

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

DayZ: The Reading Simulator

Do you know how to fly a plane/heli? No?

Go fly a plane. Right now. I dare you.

No, no one isn't going to explain to you what to do.

It's a nice, realistic idea, especially when the helicopters are going to be MUCH more complicated to fly in the Standalone.

so reading a book would lead to..what? you still would need the mini-games to use the recently learned or are you suggesting that you need to read books first to insta-do things or should the just be to make game easier for them who find the books (which would be bullocks btw)? you see not quite thought through in my opinion...

From what I understood, it'd be just a "How to" tutorial in the form of a hand-book.

It instructs you on what to do, but you still have to do the entire process yourself.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Dancing.Russian.Man

[Qu1n 140]

While thats not a bad idea at all there is the 'GOOGLE PROBLEM'..

I ask you, what person after finding, repairing and refueling a helicopter would then go 'Oh darn i better go look for the fuckin' manual to learn how to fly!' instead of googling it?

[slivniku@gmail.com 93]

While thats not a bad idea at all there is the 'GOOGLE PROBLEM'..

I ask you, what person after finding, repairing and refueling a helicopter would then go 'Oh darn i better go look for the fuckin' manual to learn how to fly!' instead of googling it?

That will always be a problem, with almost everything, the trick is not to use google, for your benifit

I played the mod for two weeks until I started using google for help and have to admit the game without google was much better, so for SA I swore to myself I would ignore google (will see how log that will work..)

IMO its an immersion thing - if you try to avoid google, finding a manual would be quite interesting (botching up heli start-up only to find in a manual that you missed one switch...)

[joe_mcentire 2074]

well i gave it a thought and it could make sense...but in this case we would need some sort of mini-games. Apart from flying a heli, or how to use a scope, where would you need books like these then?

edit: i like however the idea of bookshelves in every house or maybe even a library..etc.. a nice touch would be everything in cyrillian language and just a few in english or even german

Edited February 26, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[vaevictis 18]

so reading a book would lead to..what? you still would need the mini-games to use the recently learned or are you suggesting that you need to read books first to insta-do things or should the just be to make game easier for them who find the books (which would be bullocks btw)? you see not quite thought through in my opinion...

You would not read a book.

If you have a handbook in your inventory, it would show with on screen instructions on how to do the thing you would like to do (like a in game manual).

So you have a handbook on flying helicopters, then the game would show you what levers, switches and in what order you should press them.

You will still have to do all the stuff manually...

The idea of the handbook is that it will show you on screen on what to do and without the handbook you will have to do all the stuff from your head.

You could have the books for repairing cars, fixing legs, making camps, etc....

The broader idea is to do as many things with "mini games" so that the game is as realistic as possible and the immersion is better, so the game would slowly teach you (the player) different things...

ps: Of you course you can google for all the things in game and it would work the same, but the difference is, like Xul mentioned, in the immersion factor.

[flypp 21]

It may be a good idea, but I don't like OP's approach.

Take a look to Arma 2 multiplayer. You ca.n take a chopper. If you are not skilled enough, you may kicked for crash the heli. People will tell you "use the f****** editor and learn2fly".

Finding manuals in the SA may u give acces to a sort on mini-games to gain certain skills, but always from the game menu, not in the game.)

[joe_mcentire 2074]

You could have the books for repairing cars, fixing legs, making camps, etc....

The broader idea is to do as many things with "mini games" so that the game is as realistic as possible and the immersion is better, so the game would slowly teach you (the player) different things...

ha there it is. there was already much talk about mini-games. my personal belief is that mini-games have several flaws i try to bring them up here, if i find those threads again..

Edited February 26, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[Qu1n 140]

You would not read a book.

If you have a handbook in your inventory, it would show with on screen instructions on how to do the thing you would like to do (like a in game manual).

So you have a handbook on flying helicopters, then the game would show you what levers, switches and in what order you should press them.

You will still have to do all the stuff manually...

The idea of the handbook is that it will show you on screen on what to do and without the handbook you will have to do all the stuff from your head.

You could have the books for repairing cars, fixing legs, making camps, etc....

The broader idea is to do as many things with "mini games" so that the game is as realistic as possible and the immersion is better, so the game would slowly teach you (the player) different things...

ps: Of you course you can google for all the things in game and it would work the same, but the difference is, like Xul mentioned, in the immersion factor.

Actually this does help with what i stated before about the Google problem..

I took a look at Take on Helicopters and let me tell you, even googling you will have to remember a bunch of stuff... having an on-screen guide by finding an in-game guide would be a brilliant way of doing things. Kudos.

[shadowleaper 22]

It's a nice, realistic idea, especially when the helicopters are going to be MUCH more complicated to fly in the Standalone.

Really? Gosh, that's scary, flying choppers was hard enough as it was imo.

[slivniku@gmail.com 93]

If you have a handbook in your inventory, it would show with on screen instructions on how to do the thing you would like to do (like a in game manual).

This would than be less of a handbook/manual and more like having an instructor by side. good for players/learning and google problem, on the other hand bad for immersion.

Initially I thought it would be something like this with numbers showing steps...

[Positronica 30]

You should be as good as you are in the game based on your skills, not the skills of your character.

That would be fine if DayZ was strictly a first person and shooter and hand-eye coordination was the only type of challenge in the game, but it's not. We're stuck with a situation where everyone's marksmanship skills are different, but every character is apparently identical when it comes to everything else, weather it's fixing a car, or performing first aid, or gutting an animal, etc. On top of that, there's already a huge loot grind that drastically determines the effectiveness of your character. I don't see how putting in a method for players to improve their character's non-reflex based abilities based on in-game activities besides just loot hunting would be bad for the game.

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

so reading a book would lead to..what? you still would need the mini-games to use the recently learned or are you suggesting that you need to read books first to insta-do things or should the just be to make game easier for them who find the books (which would be bullocks btw)? you see not quite thought through in my opinion...

I think he is suggesting that it have little in game game manuals. I honestly don't have a problem with this idea, as it would really help beginners that have never played Arma to do things such as fly choppers. I can remember the first time I flew in game. Fiery crash. Luckily it was in Basic Training in Arma II.

When SA hits, not everyone will have access to ArmaII, nor the will to buy it just to learn how to fly a chopper.

What he is saying has nothing to do with the actions themselves, just the knowledge IRL on how to perform said actions correctly in game.

[vaevictis 18]

I think he is suggesting that it have little in game game manuals. I honestly don't have a problem with this idea, as it would really help beginners that have never played Arma to do things such as fly choppers. I can remember the first time I flew in game. Fiery crash. Luckily it was in Basic Training in Arma II.

When SA hits, not everyone will have access to ArmaII, nor the will to buy it just to learn how to fly a chopper.

What he is saying has nothing to do with the actions themselves, just the knowledge IRL on how to perform said actions correctly in game.

This is exactly what I am suggesting.

Handbooks would be helpful for the beginners and it would not affect people who know all the stuff IRL or have already memorized the stuff.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

how about pieces of handbooks, torn up with mssing pieces...maybe along the shore ;)

[codestargod 102]

This is exactly what I am suggesting.

Handbooks would be helpful for the beginners and it would not affect people who know all the stuff IRL or have already memorized the stuff.

The handbook idea is good. However, with it comes the potential to negatively affect the realism. For instance, what happens if a player looses the handbook for say, changing a tire? Does this mean that their memory to do this task successfully is immediately wiped? This is not very realistic. On the other hand, it is equally unrealistic for a character to have an infinitely extended memory for more complex tasks such as flying a helicopter.. One would naturally forget the subtle details of this if one did not constantly refresh ones' self.

More realistically, memory of learned skills should degrade over time, the rate of which is dependent on the complexity of the task. In this case, players would not need to have their manual on them at all times, but would have to keep it stored safely and refer back to it when they need a quick refresher course as is the case in real life.

To add to this, it would require 'probability to successful task completion' imposed on the player as their memory degrades over time.

P.S. I shock myself at times with such brilliance. Stay tuned for more...

Edited July 10, 2013 by codestargod