KoS, an examination

[dackspuds 15]

With the advent of DayZ version 1.7.5.1, there has been a lot of argument over whether or not the update solves any problems of DayZ. One of the problems that someone is almost certain to bring up is the so-called "KoS Problem". I'm going to retain a neutral standpoint on this issue to try and eliminate some bias for the reader. Some people say, "The new spawn system and way that [zombies] swarm makes it so there is no reason to shoot the [zombies]". Other people cheer, "[These] new difficulties sound great...[they are] exactly what I'm looking for in this game". This is in regard to zombies being changed for better or worse. Only a fool would say that removing zombies entirely would be beneficial to the game, as DayZ is built around the idea of a "Zombie Survival" genre. The way I see it, there are 3 conflicts in DayZ:

Player Versus Environment

Simple enough, this category is the most encompassing, and makes the game a "survival" type game. This includes water, weather, disease, height, terrain, obstacles, blood, food, temperature, etc. This also includes the struggle for resources like food, water, weaponry, ammunition, and other items spawned by the game (not player dropped). I would argue that this category is the most important, as it defines 100% of the time you play the game and requires the most attention. Any action you perform in the game will depend on the environment

Player Versus Player

This category is by leaps and bounds the most talked about, and it helps to add a significant amount of challenge into the game. It also is very important as it creates competition for resources, adds fun and entertainment, and keeps the game fresh and new every time you play it. This includes killing other players, banditry, competition for loot, competition for vehicles, following players, taking resources off of dead players, giving blood, giving assistance, interaction over chat, and any and all interaction between two players. This category is hard to make generalizations with, as it is the most variable between player depending on how they view other players and their style of gameplay. Most of the time, this category defines around 5-45% of the time you play.

Player Versus Zombie

Unique to DayZ, this category is quite popular to debate and distinctly separates DayZ from any other game. This category includes killing zombies, being killed by zombies, interaction with zombies, the "Ear" and "Eye" indicators on your HUD, any movement, any decisions made that are influenced by the presence of zombies,

I'm focusing on the Player Versus Player category, and killing on sight comes up often in Player Versus Player conflicts. I've come up with, in my humble opinion, a pretty complete list of why exactly players kill on sight.

-Little to be gained from contact with other player

-High risk of death from contact

-Choose one: High reward for high risk (Killing on Sight and taking their gear) or Low reward for high risk (making contact and possibly trading)

-Not being able to trust someone you've just met

-Lack of time (if you only have 1 hour to play then you are not generally going to try to make long lasting alliances)

-High entertainment value

-Competition for loot and resources

-Main risk in game (makes players want to "beat the game" by beating the biggest risk)

-Zombies don't pose enough of a threat to force teamwork and cooperation

Now I'm merely trying to explain why people Kill on Sight, not saying that DayZ needs to have loot piles paving the streets, zombies that see you from 10 miles away and can kill in one hit, or players invincible to other player's damage. I'm trying to say that PvP is a necessary part of the game and that removing it or limiting it will destroy a fundamental challenge. Killing on Sight is simply a natural behavior that people will do for the above reasons. Killing on Sight can't be fixed by changing the game. You need to change the player to stop Killing on Sight. If you don't kill on sight, if you try to make contact first, if you try to change yourselsf, other people will change along with you. My hope with this post is that people will change their habits to create a more interesting, varied, and fun experience with other players in DayZ.

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

It really comes down to this: since it's a game, there's very little value on a persons life and there are no repercussions to killing someone.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

thats the single biggest issue in dayz is trying to convince players to stop KoSing..

without a mechanic in place i think you'll see cows fly first.

in the early dayz it was wayyyy more coop as people were new to the game and everyone was just trying to survive..but with knowledge came boredom, then came KoS for the lulz.

and dayz has simply not moved on from that point yet.

in SA the KoS will subside for a bit as people learn the new mechanics/map, but in no time the KoS will return as strong if not stronger.

[Dreams_Of_Cheese (DayZ) 71]

I kinda like the DayZ KOS. While it can be a bitch if a dude with an M14 and ghillie is camping a coast road, fighting other players is the entire reason other people play. Face it. If we didn't have PVP, why bother to team up? There is hardly an mutual protection. There isn't any risk in teaming with some newspawn in Cherno. Its no fun.

The fun of DayZ is the unknown, the "Do I turn around and trust him" feeling. Remove that, and this game spirals down to a L4D style game, on a larger scale.

[dackspuds 15]

It really comes down to this: since it's a game, there's very little value on a persons life and there are no repercussions to killing someone.

Yeah, if someone decided to click and blow that newspawn away and 10 minutes later the Red n' Blue came speeding up to their house, I think something would change pretty fast

[Very Ape 748]

Item durability should reduce KoS. Hopefully, bandits will attempt to "hold-up" players and make them drop their gear before executing them. That's always fun.

[dallas 5195]

Some people are perfectly okay with killing other players, some people aren't.

What amazes me most is not how many that KOS, but rather how many who don't.

[svisketyggeren 662]

"the KOS problem"..made me laugh....dayz must be the only pvp game ive heard players actually complain about being killed by other players....rediculuos

Edited February 24, 2013 by svisketyggeren

[reuben5150 83]

there's very little value on a persons life and there are no repercussions to killing someone.

So rocket might want to think about that, is the bandit skin enough

Give us a working humanity system and many problems will be solved.

[reuben5150 83]

"the KOS problem"..made me laugh....dayz must be the only pvp game ive heard players actually complain about being killed by other players....rediculuos

If you had been around long enough you would know what happened early on in the mod.

[dackspuds 15]

"the KOS problem"..made me laugh....dayz must be the only pvp game ive heard players actually complain about being killed by other players....rediculuos

I put quotes around it for a reason. I'm not saying that I believe that killing on sight is a problem with the game, I'm just repeating something that I've seen said a lot.

[CS14 133]

Item durability should reduce KoS. Hopefully, bandits will attempt to "hold-up" players and make them drop their gear before executing them. That's always fun.

Holding up players doesn't always seem to work out well when the player being held will try to fight even if they are heavily over-powered. Hell, I've even been face to face with a guy waving a rifle and a ghille suit and ended up killing them with a Makarov just because I didn't want to loose anything I had, regardless of how little it was. I've only been able to successfully hold up one player and that was when I was covering my buddy with a DMR while he approached the guy and informed him that I was watching. We didn't do it to rob the player, we did it to make sure they didn't have any hostile intentions, and that was until his buddy started running up and I shot him in the back before he could even realize what happened.

Although I'm guilty of trying to rambo myself out of a few situations like this, it would be nice to hold up players without having to kill one another.

[svisketyggeren 662]

If you had been around long enough you would know what happened early on in the mod.

I take it ur referring to the times when KOS was less frequently amongst players?

That dosent really change anything...its still rediculuos to see ppl complaining about KOS. Dont get me wrong...I understand that some dont like it and thats their opinion, their gamestyle...but framing KOS as a major problem with the game is stupid...ur in the wrong game man.

There are players that kill on sight...take the necessary steps to avoid those incidents...that means running around electro for everyone to see is not a wise idea, or maybe u can get away with a fast loot run?...its risk vs reward, and that the beauty of the game

Edited February 25, 2013 by svisketyggeren

[gamerman001 182]

Acceptable KoS scenarios (survivor edition):

-bandits

-people who don't lower their weapons when you ask them to

-thieves

-Hackers (if its at all possible to identify them and kill them)

-people who don't follow server rules.

Acceptable KoS scenarios (bandit edition):

-other bandits

-animals

-tin cans

-noobs

-survivors

-hackers

-birds

-thieves

..... pretty much anything that moves

The above list only applies to illegitimate bandits.

[...Viper... 7]

KOS is part of the game just deal with it. Nobody would play dayz if you were fully geared sniping zombies in elektro. No humanity system will "fix" this. As long as players can shoot each other KOS will happen, no matter how you ramp up the difficulty.

[gamerman001 182]

KOS is part of the game just deal with it. Nobody would play dayz if you were fully geared sniping zombies in elektro. No humanity system will "fix" this. As long as players can shoot each other KOS will happen, no matter how you ramp up the difficulty.

KoS happens.... Everyone expects and understands that.. The problem is how frequently it happens.

[Talibambi 119]

"the KOS problem"..made me laugh....dayz must be the only pvp game ive heard players actually complain about being killed by other players....rediculuos

Dayz isnt a PVP game. Its a survival game with PVP as an element.

[Skat3rat 1633]

For me, playing this game since late July, early August of last year, the thrill of normal survival and being a Hero has worn off. Player killing is the only thing that really gives me a thrill anymore. I like to play as a bandit. Though I don't shoot every on site, most I do. For me the newest update adds some really great things, but the zombies have only become more of an annoyance.

[...Viper... 7]

Dayz is a PVP game, with survival elements. I would like it to be more survival, but saying it's a survival game is just funny

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

Most likely I am wrong, but I do not believe PvP was the main focus of dayz in the intention of who designed it, even if PvP IS the main focus after 2 hours of gameplay, because is the only reason why one can die.

Chernarus is 225 km^2. The view radius of one player on ground is 200 meters (less in cities and bush, more in open fields) so the likelyhood to spot another player is 0.05 %. Even multiplied by 30 players on a beefy server is 1.6 %. Almost nothing. Compare it to an urban warfare map where you meet an enemy each 15 seconds and you will understand the difference in design.

dayz is about survival, but that aspect is far too weak.

The only sure way to see other players is to go to high value loot locations: airports and towns. That's where PvP mostly happen. Just go there once or twice if you want to avoid PvP: but even to a friendly/lone wolf player like me this perspective is boring so I too approach those spots sometimes.

Just accept the PvP aspect and adapt to it.

_Anubis_

Edited February 25, 2013 by _Anubis_

[...Viper... 7]

I'm just going to say imagine that in CoD or B3 you would lose all your xp, weapons, attachments if someone killed you. Imagine how angry players would be. Dayz is one of the few games where it literally hurts when somebody kills you. 6 hours of searching gear and then some punk with a hatchet kills you. Which means, KOS is so common, why risk your gear/time when you can just pull the trigger. I don't understand why people can't accept that killing other players is part of surviving. No system will fix KOS.

[unkillable94 149]

Inter-survivor cooperation is just as much a part of DayZ as PvP is, some of my best memories have been from hooking up with someone I ran into as a fresh spawn and running with them, though new players will likely never experience this because either them or the person they find will try to kill them first.

[ShokeR (DayZ) 29]

If you increase the diffuclt of zombies , players will have to foucs more on "Player versus Zombies" and less on "Player versus Player".

Like the last update did, If you shoot someone inside cherno you are gonig to regret it, but It still doesn't matter becasue you can avoid "Player versus Zombies" by disconnect and reconnect right after.

[unkillable94 149]

If you increase the diffuclt of zombies , players will have to foucs more on "Player versus Zombies" and less on "Player versus Player".

Like the last update did, If you shoot someone inside cherno you are gonig to regret it, but It still doesn't matter becasue you can avoid "Player versus Zombies" by disconnect and reconnect right after.

The last update did absolutely nothing to encourage players to work together. Making the zombies harder until it worked wouldn't accomplis anything but push away a large part of the DayZ audience.

[Imafighter 236]

I take it ur referring to the times when KOS was less frequently amongst players?

That dosent really change anything...its still rediculuos to see ppl complaining about KOS. Dont get me wrong...I understand that some dont like it and thats their opinion, their gamestyle...but framing KOS as a major problem with the game is stupid...ur in the wrong game man.

There are players that kill on sight...take the necessary steps to avoid those incidents...that means running around electro for everyone to see is not a wise idea, or maybe u can get away with a fast loot run?...its risk vs reward, and that the beauty of the game

Go play normal Arma II.