how to handle property - the issue when being offline

[Slowe 0]

I don't get what's the big deal about using NPCs to guard a base. I like the idea, as it would make raiding bases more of a challenge. Realistically (and isn't that what we're all wanting here?) if someone had the resources and manpower to build a base, they would be able to have lookouts on watch at all times. You wouldn't be able to raid the base simply because they're all gone for the night.

Now I would go for a system where once you create a certain structure (one requiring quite a bit of resources to build), you are able to recruit a NPC lookout. Larger groups would have an easier time gathering the resources because of their numbers and thus build bigger and better protected bases, whereas small groups would have a harder time gathering resources resulting in some low security/unprotected bases.

Also, the NPCs would only be present for say 5/6 hours a day, allowing you to have some sort of protection during the hours you are not logged in. The limit on how many hours they could be present would mean that there is still some room for an unprotected base, unless you stagger their shifts.

The skill level of the AI should be fairly okay. They wouldn't be deadeyes but they wouldn't be pushovers neither. This would be more fun and makes it a challenge for any raiders trying to steal your stuff, because I don't see any fun in just trying to dodge boobytraps or break down locks to make it into an empty base.

As I see it now, there would be no incentive to build a base or acquire vehicles, only to have someone ransack it when you log off.... thus leading to the same thing that happens now when people have nothing to work towards: mass banditry. Players that would rather not kill every player they see have nothing to do really, and I see bases as being a great way to combat that but only if there is some sufficient security for them.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Realistically (and isn't that what we're all wanting here?) if someone had the resources and manpower to build a base, they would be able to have lookouts on watch at all times. You wouldn't be able to raid the base simply because they're all gone for the night.

That's exactly the point though. You DON'T have the manpower, because you're not there.

It's as simple as that.

NPCs shouldn't be used because it breaks the sensation of pure player-interaction we get from nothing but zeds and other people roaming the map.

It's one of the very basic foundations of DayZ.

[joe_mcentire 2073]

on the other hand how immersion breaking are the shops in "wasteland" for you guys?

Edited March 8, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[Slowe 0]

That's exactly the point though. You DON'T have the manpower, because you're not there.

It's as simple as that.

Oh but you DO have the manpower, what you don't have is the luxury to coordinate your entire life and others' to revolve around watching a base inside a video game. I like to look at DayZ with a realism pov, and if this were a real situation survivors would not have things like work, school, or other obligations to worry about, therefore allowing them to take turns on watch for a base. What people got to remember is that this is just a video game, players have lives outside of it.

People don't log out in real life, disappearing from our world for the night. I believe leaving characters inside the game would be highly realistic, but there would still be no way of protecting yourself or your stuff when you're gone and would probably cause server problems. Having some sort of NPC counterpart to help you keep whats yours' is a much better option.

I think the NPCs would add some realism to bases without forcing players to stay in game 24/7 and allowing casual players to have some sort of end game fun. I don't see how they would disrupt the core PvP aspects that you would see in the rest of the world as they wouldn't be roaming around all over the place, they'd be confined to only the bases and only there would be a small handful of them. If you walked up to someones' base that was being guarded by a real player, you would be met with the same interaction as from an NPC....bullets, lots of bullets. For anyone who really wants to get at your stuff, they would be just a small deterant, not some uber force that you have to launch a massive attack against.

[thejarofflies@gmail.com 12]

Oh but you DO have the manpower, what you don't have is the luxury to coordinate your entire life and others' to revolve around watching a base inside a video game. I like to look at DayZ with a realism pov, and if this were a real situation survivors would not have things like work, school, or other obligations to worry about, therefore allowing them to take turns on watch for a base. What people got to remember is that this is just a video game, players have lives outside of it.

People don't log out in real life, disappearing from our world for the night. I believe leaving characters inside the game would be highly realistic, but there would still be no way of protecting yourself or your stuff when you're gone and would probably cause server problems. Having some sort of NPC counterpart to help you keep whats yours' is a much better option.

I think the NPCs would add some realism to bases without forcing players to stay in game 24/7 and allowing casual players to have some sort of end game fun. I don't see how they would disrupt the core PvP aspects that you would see in the rest of the world as they wouldn't be roaming around all over the place, they'd be confined to only the bases and only there would be a small handful of them. If you walked up to someones' base that was being guarded by a real player, you would be met with the same interaction as from an NPC....bullets, lots of bullets. For anyone who really wants to get at your stuff, they would be just a small deterant, not some uber force that you have to launch a massive attack against.

I support your concern but really, NPC's are not the answer. They are just AI, and it would be just a matter of time before players figure out how they work and would use it for exploiting, just like you use zombies now to check if players are near. And it's just not that exciting knowing the base is guarded by NPC's. You would just use whatever trick to kill them. Or if they are overpowered it would just be annoying.

But I really think it's not fair to reward the players just because they have free time to play every day.

I really like dayz, and want to play it as much as I can, but i can't imagine playing it that often. I have many other more important things in life. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

And I really don't think Rocket will allow that some people will get just a half of the game. I gave my idea, which i still think is legit, it's just maybe more difficult to explain it properly (or maybe people just don't want to read that much). But for now I'll just sit and wait to see what devs come up with, or the real apocalypse starts and we can all play dayz in real life and not worry about logging off :)

[The Shane Walsh of DayZ 15]

I support your concern but really, NPC's are not the answer. They are just AI, and it would be just a matter of time before players figure out how they work and would use it for exploiting, just like you use zombies now to check if players are near. And it's just not that exciting knowing the base is guarded by NPC's. You would just use whatever trick to kill them. Or if they are overpowered it would just be annoying.

But I really think it's not fair to reward the players just because they have free time to play every day.

I really like dayz, and want to play it as much as I can, but i can't imagine playing it that often. I have many other more important things in life. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

And I really don't think Rocket will allow that some people will get just a half of the game. I gave my idea, which i still think is legit, it's just maybe more difficult to explain it properly (or maybe people just don't want to read that much). But for now I'll just sit and wait to see what devs come up with, or the real apocalypse starts and we can all play dayz in real life and not worry about logging off :)

But you'd have to worry about people like me, who will shoot anyone they don't know on sight during the apocalypse. I don't know you, nor do I want too. Also I don't know if you're infected or not and I wouldn't risk it.

[thejarofflies@gmail.com 12]

that's fine as long as you dont server hop :)

[harley001 315]

I don't really see the issue with the current system. The game world is intact 24/7 and when you log out only your character disappears from the world. I'm having a hard time seeing what's wrong with it other than people losing their junk if they leave it unguarded, and I don't see that as an issue

So if you spend hours upon hours working for something you are fine when some dude steals it at 3am in the morning. No one wants to have their shizz that they worked hard for taken away in something they had no way to prevent. No matter where you hide something people know where to look.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

Is there such a thing as ownership when you are essentially looting the rubbles of a long gone society?

[joe_mcentire 2073]

Is there such a thing as ownership when you are essentially looting the rubbles of a long gone society?

well why not?!

Usucaption and/or Adverse possession

Edited March 10, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

@joe_mcentire

In the world of DayZ, the rules of salvage outweigh any opinion of "possession".

It's more of a "you snooze, you lose" economy.

[Mos1ey 6301]

So if you spend hours upon hours working for something you are fine when some dude steals it at 3am in the morning. No one wants to have their shizz that they worked hard for taken away in something they had no way to prevent. No matter where you hide something people know where to look.

If you don't want to lose vehicles then don't bother repairing them, lol. It's part of the game.

[joe_mcentire 2073]

@joe_mcentire

In the world of DayZ, the rules of salvage outweigh any opinion of "possession".

It's more of a "you snooze, you lose" economy.

;) well it's getting a bit philosophical now, but whatever... isn't the whole pvp aspect of the game somewhat driven by gaining "possessions"

Edited March 10, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[Mos1ey 6301]

;) well it's getting a bit philosophical now, but whatever... isn't the whole pvp aspect of the game somewhat driven by gaining "possessions"

And also by losing them. ^^

[joe_mcentire 2073]

If you don't want to lose vehicles then don't bother repairing them, lol. It's part of the game.

well i think it is ok for vehicles as it is now.

i don't want ppl to get confused over two things: losing your stuff when online and losing your stuff when offline.

When online, yeah it's pretty damn much your own fault, you should have watched out for your stuff, deal with it.

When offline - and there is no IRL-equivalence -, you have no chance to defend and no chance to react.

Now there comes another thing into play: effort

Yeah sometimes you have to make huge efforts in repairing a car to get it going, but most of the time these efforts are kept somehow at a tolerable level. This is also the reason why ppl are annoyed, when they login and see that their car has gone, but well they can live with it.

When we talk about bases - not just hideouts - why would someone invest so much time and make immense efforts when everything could be gone just by the next login...

Maybe this also raises the question, what is the common opinion about how "bases" should be defined? What should be the significant differences to "hideouts"

If we regard "bases" merely as hideout-esque constructions, with no huge efforts to build/raise, well then maybe this whole thread could be pointless, because then imo, the existing mechanism should be enough..

Edited March 10, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Well, on the subject of bases, I've tried to make my opinion as clear as I can in other threads.

I don't foresee us gaining the ability to rebuild towns. That's all I'll say on the subject ATM.

[shadowjack 254]

So if you spend hours upon hours working for something you are fine when some dude steals it at 3am in the morning. No one wants to have their shizz that they worked hard for taken away in something they had no way to prevent. No matter where you hide something people know where to look.

If those "hours and hours" you spend are really work then i hope you are getting paid for your time. If you are not enjoying those "hours and hours" then i am quite certain you can find a much better use for your leisure time.

DayZ is NOT gear fetish friendly.

[joe_mcentire 2073]

If those "hours and hours" you spend are really work then i hope you are getting paid for your time. If you are not enjoying those "hours and hours" then i am quite certain you can find a much better use for your leisure time.

DayZ is NOT gear fetish friendly.

well but he makes a point there: why should then anyone want to build a base? maybe two or three times you would try, but then you would be too frustrated...well time will tell, obviously...

i think it was just important to raise awareness for this possible threat... on the subject of bases

Edited March 10, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[shadowjack 254]

Is there such a thing as ownership when you are essentially looting the rubbles of a long gone society?

I think ownership is a construct of the legal profession giving them yet another "thing" they can haggle over. regardless of what laws may say ... ownership is always temporary.

[Never 237]

So if you spend hours upon hours working for something you are fine when some dude steals it at 3am in the morning. No one wants to have their shizz that they worked hard for taken away in something they had no way to prevent. No matter where you hide something people know where to look.

Hide it better then. A big old base is after all begging to be raided in the fecking apocalypse. Jesus, how is it so hard for people to get? Everyones starving, you have food, you won't share, desperate people will fuck you over. It really isn't that hard to understand.

Is there such a thing as ownership when you are essentially looting the rubbles of a long gone society?

This! so god damn f**king hard this!.

Remember this phrase guys?

Don't get attached to your gear.

its like rule number one of DayZ after all.

Ands heres another for you carebears:

ALL YOUR BASE BELONG TO US.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Never

[shadowjack 254]

When we talk about bases - not just hideouts - why would someone invest so much time and make immense efforts when everything could be gone just by the next login...

Because that is what they enjoy doing. Its all about the journey my friend.

[slivniku@gmail.com 93]

make destroying a base just as hard (time consuming) as building them, nobody will bother destroying them...

maybe instead of a timer where a base would disappear if nobody would be in it for a certain period of time (to avoid cluttering the servers), the bases could deteriorate over time? It would be hard to implement appearance vise, but would make sense from realism perspective

[joe_mcentire 2073]

from all we know: so now base-building is far more likely than 2 months prior. The problem stays. what to do. dean wanted to implement a mechanic where you could program your own security-system and to bolt doors electrically. nice idea, however how fair would it be if someone locks the door and is off for the next 6 months...

[joe_mcentire 2073]

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1wasub/lets_discuss_what_are_your_hopesdreams_in/

[joe_mcentire 2073]

i thought i would dig this one up again. bases might be reality sooner or later. any information or links what has been said and done in the meantime. for what it stands, the issue remains (at least for public shards)