Simple change to sniper scopes

[Xianyu 820]

Right now, the zeroing system works by hitting page up, or page down, and having your bullet fall exactly at the spot that is the distance that shows up on the screen. This is... a terrible mechanic. Or should I say, it's a GOOD mechanic, for the 12 year old 'snipers' who camp in the hills and shoot at people.

Remove it.

Replace it.

Each scope for a sniper rifle should start 'zeroed' at a specific range. 300, perhaps. Using the page up, and page down keys should move a single click back and forth in the direction required. I don't know all the terms used, but basically, each click just moves the crosshairs slightly out of line of the bullets trajectory. Enough clicks and the bullet will align with the crosshairs at a distance of 800 metres, instead of 300.

This single simple change will, overnight, remove most of the snipers from the hills. Or make them hilariously ineffective. It'll add skill back into the mix of sniping, and remove all the accessibility for 12 year old CoD kiddies. Which I think everyone will agree is a good thing.

And then, when you get insta-killed from 800 metres away, you know that the guy that fired the round had some skill and wasn't using a magic 'point and click' deathwand.

Even more fun! The standalone has weapon degradation, according to some blog posts I saw.

Why not have the scope become misaligned as the weapon becomes worm, requiring the scope to be adjusted after a while to account for the 'drift'? Add a 'weapon service kit' to tighten up all the bolts and screws and return it to perfect condition, and hey presto, you got some pretty cool game mechanics, added realism, and removed the number-one way l33t sn1p3rs can play. The learning curve would increase, but sniping should be a challenge, not 'easy mode'. And certainly not as overpowered as it is now.

And for shits and giggles: add a 300-page ballistics manual we can use as a melee weapon to beat to death the hill-camper snipers.

P.S. Don't bother with the 'you just QQ because you get sniped all the time' argument. I've been killed by sniper rifles twice. One of those times was from about two metres away. As someone who uses sniper rifles more often than get shot by them, I find them massively overpowered. It's not for selfish QQ reasons that I suggest this change. Ergo: Find a new straw-man argument to use.

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

AFAIK the weapon's scope "tuning" does work in the manner you describe. It's adjustable for longer ranges to compensate for bullet drop etc.

The issue is not helped by the fact that DAYZ view distance is so short in comparison to default Arma.

More tweaking to sniping would be good. Perhaps some tips could be taken from the ACE mod?

Rgds

LoK

[Xianyu 820]

Hello there

AFAIK the weapon's scope "tuning" does work in the manner you describe. It's adjustable for longer ranges to compensate for bullet drop etc.

The issue is not helped by the fact that DAYZ view distance is so short in comparison to default Arma.

More tweaking to sniping would be good. Perhaps some tips could be taken from the ACE mod?

Rgds

LoK

The problem is, it drops the bullet exactly at X metres.

If it says '300 metres' when you hit page down, the bullet will LAND at 300 metres.

What I'm suggesting, is that instead of 300 metres, and instead of increments of 100 metres, have the numbers be 1-10, on a scale of minimum range for the scope, to maximum. 1 is 300 metres, 10 is 1200. Which would make 5 somewhere in the region of 800 metres, instead of putting the bullet EXACTLY at 500 metres. This way, it requires skill, training, and a quick mind to make the difficult shots, instead of 'hey, let's put down a marker there to find the range, and then zero the rifle to the nearest increment of 100 metres, and then just fire away! :D'

[aksuduud 64]

ACE mod has you adjust MOA, and you have a reference booklet from which to look what MOA corresponds to what range.

[Xianyu 820]

ACE mod has you adjust MOA, and you have a reference booklet from which to look what MOA corresponds to what range.

I really doubt Rocket is going to add the ACE mod to DayZ. Though that would be AWESOME if he did.

[aksuduud 64]

I doubt ACE devs would accept it either, but some mechanics could be adopted from the mod.

[martink8190@gmail.com 149]

If they added wind to the game (mechanics) that would make things so much more interesting, one can hope...

As for ACE, there are many things I'd like to see implemented in similar manner or the idea/s behind them. Certainly proper SOUNDS would no doubt please many

(sounds is in capital yes)

[gibonez 3633]

Hello there

AFAIK the weapon's scope "tuning" does work in the manner you describe. It's adjustable for longer ranges to compensate for bullet drop etc.

The issue is not helped by the fact that DAYZ view distance is so short in comparison to default Arma.

More tweaking to sniping would be good. Perhaps some tips could be taken from the ACE mod?

Rgds

LoK

They could perhaps get in contact with the ace mod team and try to port the ballistics and scope system directly from ACE.

Work is already done and the ACE system is fantastic and probably is much better than the system even VBS 2 uses.

[-Gews- 7443]

I don't fully understand the suggestion, I kinda get it but not quite...

I'd be okay with switching the zeroing from "100m, 200m, 300m" to elevation adjustments in MOA, mils, or clicks like on a PSO-1, but there would have to be an on-screen indicator of how much elevation you have adjusted it to.

Wind would be nice too, but wind would have to be in effect for all weapons, not just sniper rifles.

Some scopes and adjustable sights may simply have the ranges labeled for ease of use and those should continue to use the "100m, 200m, 300m, etc" form of adjustment.

[slivniku@gmail.com 93]

I doubt it is really that hard to implement (as everything is already in there its a simple change from 1-3/20 clicks, depending on the distance)

would be good if it would be close to real ammo drop tables as well...

@Gews

I think that is what he's suggesting...

[-Gews- 7443]

@Gews

I think that is what he's suggesting...

I thought so too but I'm easily confused.

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

I agree to an extent. Minute of Angle should have better adjustments than it does now, but messing with the current system... ehh... risky.

Plus, I never worry about CoD kiddies, they can't shoot for shit anyhow.

Ex: Puts crosshair of DMR centerpoint ona target 700m away. *shoots* *shoots* *shoots*. Rage quits and bitches online because he is ignorant of trajectory and bullet drop.

Ex 2: Zeros AS50 for 600m, target is 640m away. Has to shoot more than once to figure out where his bullet will go inbetween mildots.

I wouldn't worry too much about CoD kiddies.

[Jeremiah Cross 55]

I had assumed that with implementing weapons of differing qualities in standalone that accuracy would be one of the variables. No gun shoots with 100% consistency, minute differences in the bullets shape and surface texture, barrel temperature (not to mention how worn or clogged the rifling may be) are all variables that alter trajectory. Perhaps in addition to adding wind effects on ballistics they could also add a random degree of error. Even a 1"-2" variable at 100 meters would really screw up sniping, at ranges of 500 meters you could be off by almost a foot without taking windage or leading a target into account.

Though personally I don't think the winds effects on ballistics really needs to be added. It adds a level of complexity that doesn't really need to be there. Random error based upon how well the gun is maintained or its quality, while it still sounds unnecessary to me, would be a bit easier to implement and add basically the same effect. Adding wind could and probably would require more changes to the game. How would you determine the direction of the wind, wind speed, etc. If we want to make sniping truly realistic snipers should have to take temperature, humidity and, for the really long shots, the rotation of the earth. Or we could just accept that we will occasionally be sniped by a punk ass COD kid who can't survive any other way.

Though if they were to add more islands and sailboats that actually move with the wind, then hell yes, add all the wind you want. Boats are uncommon in online games these days, making them worthwhile in DAYZ would be amazing. Imagine if they added a little Ferry so you could move your car from island to island. Or better yet, having small islands with ruined castles on them, perfect for fortifying into a base for your clan. On that off topic note...

Edited February 24, 2013 by Jeremiah Cross

[gibonez 3633]

Since we are on the topic of scopes .

How would you guys feel about seeing some actually calibrated Front Focal Plane scopes with calibrated mildots or even a variety of ranging reticules like the Army Mildot, Marine corp Mildots, Gap G2 reticles etc.

FFP = Optics grow in size as you zoom in allowing you to ranging objects accurately at higher magnifications.

Jeremiah wind is already in arma 2, it just doesn't affect ballistics it was disabled for some reason.

The guys over at ace mod were able to incorporate that wind into the ballistics so I am sure rocket could build his own realistic ballistic system or ask to copy theirs.

Although the ballistics system is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to improvements ACE could add to dayz.

Just think of blood trails, weapon resting, bipods, etc.

Edited February 24, 2013 by gibonez

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

*Snip* there would have to be an on-screen indicator of how much elevation you have adjusted it to.

I have to disagree on this point. Where your shot lands should be the only indicator of what your scope is set to.

None of the scopes I've ever dealt with have anything more than +/- numbers, sometimes in red or green so you can count the clicks up or down.

You need to have a rough idea what you're trying to do before you can set your scope to a specific range.

Maybe top-notch military gear has more help/indication, but I've never seen any so I couldn't say.

[-Gews- 7443]

Since we are on the topic of scopes .

How would you guys feel about seeing some actually calibrated Front Focal Plane scopes with calibrated mildots or even a variety of ranging reticules like the Army Mildot, Marine corp Mildots, Gap G2 reticles etc.

FFP = Optics grow in size as you zoom in allowing you to ranging objects accurately at higher magnifications.

Ehhh, that would be cool, I would prefer the FFP scopes to make ranging easier. I doubt they're going to add in dozens of scope and reticle variants though.

An important thing they need to fix is making sure the scopes actually work. I picked up a new G36 and it has a little ranging scale which works at 200m, but is off a bit at 400m, and the 600m and 800m scales don't work at all.

Also the reticle on that scope has three crosshairs, but they don't actually correspond to any useful ranges and you have to aim in-between, which is annoying.

The mil dots on the AS50 don't work either, so technically they're not even mil dots.

I have to disagree on this point. Where your shot lands should be the only indicator of what your scope is set to.

None of the scopes I've ever dealt with have anything more than +/- numbers, sometimes in red or green so you can count the clicks up or down.

You need to have a rough idea what you're trying to do before you can set your scope to a specific range.

Maybe top-notch military gear has more help/indication, but I've never seen any so I couldn't say.

I think I didn't make my point clear. :P On an actual scope you can look and clearly see where you've set the turrets to (eg 25 MOA of elevation). I want to have some on-screen indicator to see what adjustments I'm making to my scope in MOA, mils, etc. I didn't mean having all the ranges clearly labeled as that would just send us back to the "Easy Sniping" problem.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Gews

[gibonez 3633]

I would prefer if the scopes were mil/mil.

Mil/moa scopes confuse me.

[-Gews- 7443]

I would prefer if the scopes were mil/mil.

Mil/moa scopes confuse me.

I know, I really don't like mismatching turrets and reticles, it just complicates things for no good reason, moa/moa or mil/mil are fine, either way.

However I'm pretty sure the M24 has mil/moa (US Army, whyyyyyyyy?) so the game should reflect that as well.

[radivmoe 47]

i agree with OP. we should not know what the specific range is, we should adjust by knowledge or experience (3 settings left, a bit too much, 1 setting right).