Progression System in DayZ Standalone

[joe_mcentire 2074]

i had a little Gedankenexperiment once...

Grinding could always be possible..as in IRL ;)... but considering my Gedankenexperiment eg. it would be really hard. Then you go with some reciprocal factors and considering the average life-span or the risk of doing always the same and not to be shot in the process...grinding would be disillusioning quite frankly..

Edited February 23, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[thesodesa 99]

Cooperation can be achieved just by giving players more things to do, like managing the construction and security of their own bases or structures like the radio tower on green mountain to enable radio transmissions from anywhere on the map.

[BoaDrago 3]

Cooperation can be achieved just by giving players more things to do, like managing the construction and security of their own bases or structures like the radio tower on green mountain to enable radio transmissions from anywhere on the map.

You need to ask yourself tho, how much people would it take to defend such base in a 30-40 man server. If you just have a couple of friends in there as soon as someone anounces you to SideChat your base is doomed...

[Uuni 74]

i had a little Gedankenexperiment once...

Grinding could always be possible..as in IRL ;)... but considering my Gedankenexperiment eg. it would be really hard. Then you go with some reciprocal factors and considering the average life-span or the risk of doing always the same and not to be shot in the process...grinding would be disillusioning quite frankly..

When the information is dug out and posted online a hidden system like this wouldn't be so hidden anymore. What I find the best solution for skill system is to use real life skill via minigames. Have you ever played GTA chinatown wars? In there you need to do a certain minigame in order to get a stolen vehicle to work. They can be something as simple as screwing open the lid and connecting two wires. This sorta thing would increase the skill ceiling of the game as you can make these minigames far more complicated than that. To make them feel immersive can be quite hard but as long as you implement them nicely into the game world with no weird camera angles nor tacked-on interfaces they should be fine

You need to ask yourself tho, how much people would it take to defend such base in a 30-40 man server. If you just have a couple of friends in there as soon as someone anounces you to SideChat your base is doomed...

Where do you get the idea of side chat? Does not sound very authetic for me. Was this in one of the patch notes?

Edited February 23, 2013 by Uuni

[joe_mcentire 2074]

When the information is dug out and posted online a hidden system like this wouldn't be so hidden anymore. What I find the best solution for skill system is to use real life skill via minigames. Have you ever played GTA chinatown wars? In there you need to do a certain minigame in order to get a stolen vehicle to work. They can be something as simple as screwing open the lid and connecting two wires. This sorta thing would increase the skill ceiling of the game as you can make these minigames far more complicated than that. To make them feel immersive can be quite hard but as long as you implement them nicely into the game world with no weird camera angles nor tacked-on interfaces they should be fine

Where do you get the idea of side chat? Does not sound very authetic for me. Was this in one of the patch notes?

well we had this discussion about mini-games already...mother of all simulations? how? because why should anyone want a not to complicated mini-game which gets absolutely annoying after the 6th time?

[Uuni 74]

well we had this discussion about mini-games already...mother of all simulations? how? because why should anyone want a not to complicated mini-game which gets absolutely annoying after the 6th time?

I'd gladly do the tire changing minigame four times if that means I get to drive that lada out from the little town, rather than wait around for twelve seconds just because my tire-changing skill is low or even worse, not do it at all because I lack the proper traits. Just doing the animation like in the current system is not too exciting either. Imagine pumping up the winch, then screwing out the bolts and pulling out the broken wheel. All this while zeds might spot you. No time to slack around and over time you would obviously get better at this just because you know what to do and in which order

[psstloaf 17]

i love some sort of growth system just like growing up in real life, but sorry this idea is just pants!

[lipemr 160]

Except you're completely ignoring the points we bring up about the standalone. It won't be like that. It will be much more in in-depth and have much more content.

To me, it seems like this isn't your type of game. It sounds like it would be better for you to find an actual zombie survival RPG, like State of Decayl or Project Zomboid rather than trying to turn DayZ into something it's not.

i dont really see where all this "content" is, sincerely.

All i see is a dozen of new actions that you can make within a month EASILY, and after that? the same boring Deathmatch stuff?

And the matter of making death more important than "just get your stuff back"?

[Uuni 74]

i dont really see where all this "content" is, sincerely.

All i see is a dozen of new actions that you can make within a month EASILY, and after that? the same boring Deathmatch stuff?

And the matter of making death more important than "just get your stuff back"?

A month of content seems WAY WAY WAY more than most games can offer, and I was entertained for two just by the mod in it's current state. The standalone will be more challenging as the gear can't be farmed and they keep adding new stuff weekly so it's likely that the target audience will get a lot more content they love. Collecting a nice set of clothes can be a worthwhile activity as a single hacker can't just kill you with a single command. Also things like infections, body temperature and improved zeds will make your life more difficult so gathering that stuff will take more time

It's a zombie survival simulation somewhere in russia, as authentic as possible. If that's not your cup of tea, you might want to look into l4d2 or zombie bowl-o-rama

Edited February 23, 2013 by Uuni

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

well we had this discussion about mini-games already...mother of all simulations? how? because why should anyone want a not to complicated mini-game which gets absolutely annoying after the 6th time?

They wouldn't have to be the same thing over and over. Think of a repairing "Minigame". It wouldn't be the same thing every time, because there are different cars that would be built differently. Think about healing someone after a wound. It would be different every time, was it a bite, a gunshot or shrapnel? Where was he wounded? What medical supplies do you have at your disposal? If the devs put time and effort into a system like this, it would really pay off.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

i agree on mini-games when

• they are in depth and sophisticated enough to fit into the game
  

and

• they provide enough variety in their appearance
  

Now there are whole simulation games dedicated to e.g. surgery and other tasks. They all lack authenticity or are (in)voluntarily hilarious.

Can you imagine the effort it would take just to implement only one single proper functional mini-game into dayz..as said before.,,, mother of simulations..impossible

...well maybe ok maybe one would be possible...

[lipemr 160]

A month of content seems WAY WAY WAY more than most games can offer, and I was entertained for two just by the mod in it's current state. The standalone will be more challenging as the gear can't be farmed and they keep adding new stuff weekly so it's likely that the target audience will get a lot more content they love. Collecting a nice set of clothes can be a worthwhile activity as a single hacker can't just kill you with a single command. Also things like infections, body temperature and improved zeds will make your life more difficult so gathering that stuff will take more time

It's a zombie survival simulation somewhere in russia, as authentic as possible. If that's not your cup of tea, you might want to look into l4d2 or zombie bowl-o-rama

you're expecting way too much dude, i expected something like that from the mod when i started playing, and here i am.

For an online game, 1 month is mediocre, maybe you're mixing single player and MMO concepts, cause only a single player would be satisfatory with 1 month of casual playing entertainment.

Also, i dont think rocket just want to make a game like the "other games" out there, doesnt that sounds like a failure game we already heard about some time ago?

To make a decent MMO, a progression system is NEEDED, isnt even a matter of opinion, it's just NEEDED, cause without it, the longevity of the game will just go down the toilet and we'll see bad things happening to the standalone as we already see with the mod, where there's no vanilla server anymore, and the most populated are the ones that go extremely the opposite way the game should be.

Edited February 23, 2013 by lipemr

[Uuni 74]

you're expecting way too much dude, i expected something like that from the mod when i started playing, and here i am.

For an online game, 1 month is mediocre, maybe you're mixing single player and MMO concepts, cause only a single player would be satisfatory with 1 month of casual playing entertainment.

Also, i dont think rocket just want to make a game like the "other games" out there, doesnt that sounds like a failure game we already heard about some time ago?

To make a decent MMO, a progression system is NEEDED, isnt even a matter of opinion, it's just NEEDED, cause without it, the longevity of the game will just go down the toilet and we'll see bad things happening to the standalone as we already see with the mod, where there's no vanilla server anymore, and the most populated are the ones that go extremely the opposite way the game should be.

I think you should really follow the developement blog. MMO with a progression system is a dying breed. It's about time we dont have a threadmill forced on us. It's an outdated concept added in the monthly subscription based business model to keep people playing. It's not really needed here. Minecraft for example is doing just great without any progression system other than exploring the game

[CreepySalad 108]

To make a decent MMO, a progression system is NEEDED, isnt even a matter of opinion, it's just NEEDED,

You're... you're kidding, right?

You're thinking of an RPG. Not an MMO.

MMO just means lots of players on one server. RPG means leveling, EXP, etcetera.

I understand if Day Z was trying to be this, but it's not.

The stuff you find isn't the only content of the game, it's the experiences that are gained from other player interactions. If that's not enough for you, then this isn't the game for you.

I don't understand how it WOULDN'T be, considering there's an endless amount of things you could do with other players, but I guess it's not your cup of tea.

I hear they're adding a perk system in War Z, though. Why don't you try that one out? It's just like WOW, except in first person, and zombies. Not even joking here, I'm serious. Go play that if you want Day Z with leveling. I heard they're improving it.

Edited February 24, 2013 by CreepySalad

[CreepySalad 108]

i agree on mini-games when

• they are in depth and sophisticated enough to fit into the game
  

and

• they provide enough variety in their appearance
  

Now there are whole simulation games dedicated to e.g. surgery and other tasks. They all lack authenticity or are (in)voluntarily hilarious.

Can you imagine the effort it would take just to implement only one single proper functional mini-game into dayz..as said before.,,, mother of simulations..impossible

...well maybe ok maybe one would be possible...

I think they all would be possible, actually.

[Uuni 74]

i agree on mini-games when

• they are in depth and sophisticated enough to fit into the game
  

and

• they provide enough variety in their appearance
  

Now there are whole simulation games dedicated to e.g. surgery and other tasks. They all lack authenticity or are (in)voluntarily hilarious.

Can you imagine the effort it would take just to implement only one single proper functional mini-game into dayz..as said before.,,, mother of simulations..impossible

...well maybe ok maybe one would be possible...

They actually did the first aid kinda right in the America's Army 3. It was extremely simplified minigame where you needed to treat the sympthoms with the right kind of first aid equipment. All we need is them not to tell us what the sympthom is, but we can observe the injury ourselves in-game. Then choose which item to treat the injury with from our inventory. Bang! That's a real skill based system within the engine, easily doable

Edited February 24, 2013 by Uuni

[CreepySalad 108]

They actually did the first aid kinda right in the America's Army 3. It was extremely simplified minigame where you needed to treat the sympthoms with the right kind of first aid equipment. All we need is them not to tell us what the sympthom is, but we can observe the injury ourselves in-game. Then choose which item to treat the injury with from our inventory. Bang! That's a real skill based system within the engine, easily doable

Aw, I forgot about that game.

Anyway, yeah, that's what I was thinking. But with vehicle repairs too.

It'd add depth and immersion if it's done right.

If done wrong, though...

[Uuni 74]

Aw, I forgot about that game.

Anyway, yeah, that's what I was thinking. But with vehicle repairs too.

It'd add depth and immersion if it's done right.

If done wrong, though...

I guess it's the kinda thing we have to trust in devs to do right, like everything else about the game. Even making fire could be a thing like this so the 13 year old kid without any knowledge how to light a fire would be stuck with his matches and unlit fireplace for all eternity. The picture in my head made me chuckle ^_^

[lipemr 160]

You're... you're kidding, right?

You're thinking of an RPG. Not an MMO.

MMO just means lots of players on one server. RPG means leveling, EXP, etcetera.

I understand if Day Z was trying to be this, but it's not.

The stuff you find isn't the only content of the game, it's the experiences that are gained from other player interactions. If that's not enough for you, then this isn't the game for you.

I don't understand how it WOULDN'T be, considering there's an endless amount of things you could do with other players, but I guess it's not your cup of tea.

I hear they're adding a perk system in War Z, though. Why don't you try that one out? It's just like WOW, except in first person, and zombies. Not even joking here, I'm serious. Go play that if you want Day Z with leveling. I heard they're improving it.

Yeah the "player interactions" where everyone shoots on sight seems AMAZING, i think you dont play dayZ for the last 6 months.

If a progression system is "omfg bad, no rpg, dayZ is no rpg, hurr hurr", then what do you suggest to reduce the shoot on sight and to make players value more their lives?

And yeah, dayZ IS a RPG, if you think it isnt, you dont even know the freaking meaning of the term.

Edited February 24, 2013 by lipemr

[colekern 1364]

Yeah the "player interactions" where everyone shoots on sight seems AMAZING, i think you dont play dayZ for the last 6 months.

If a progression system is "omfg bad, no rpg, dayZ is no rpg, hurr hurr", then what do you suggest to reduce the shoot on sight and to make players value more their lives?

And yeah, dayZ IS a RPG, if you think it isnt, you dont even know the freaking meaning of the term.

Add more stuff that encourages player interaction. Base building, the ability to clear out owns, new endgame content... Etc. Etc.Also, I've had plenty of player interactions that didn't involve Pvp I. The last month or so.

[CreepySalad 108]

Yeah the "player interactions" where everyone shoots on sight seems AMAZING, i think you dont play dayZ for the last 6 months.

If a progression system is "omfg bad, no rpg, dayZ is no rpg, hurr hurr", then what do you suggest to reduce the shoot on sight and to make players value more their lives?

And yeah, dayZ IS a RPG, if you think it isnt, you dont even know the freaking meaning of the term.

>"An experience point (often abbreviated to Exp or XP) is a unit of measurement used in many role-playing games (RPGs) and role-playing video games to quantify a player character's progression through the game. Experience points are generally awarded for the completion of quests, overcoming obstacles and opponents, and for successful role-playing.

In many RPGs, characters start as fairly weak and untrained. When a sufficient amount of experience is obtained, the character "levels up", achieving the next stage of character development. Such an event usually increases the character's statistics, such as health points and strength, and may permit the character to acquire new abilities or improve existing ones.

In some role-playing games, particularly those derived from Dungeons & Dragons, experience points are used to improve characters in discrete experience levels; in other games, such as GURPS and the World of Darkness games, experience points are spent on specific abilities or attributes chosen by the player."

Also, I've made plenty of friends on Day Z. Help new people, and stop KOSing yourself, and you'd get some nice experiences out of the many different people in the server.

RPGs are now regularly known as, (and described as) games like Persona and therefore, will be described as such by me, and anyone else who's played a video game.

EXP is just a false form of progression, at least it would be in this game.

I hated FC3 for this reason as well. The previous games did an excellent job in making you feel like you were against the odds, which was completely ruined in FC3, due to one of the reasons being perks and EXP.

If you want to play a RPG, you should go play one.

No need to be a dick-wrinkle as well. Calm down.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

And yeah, dayZ IS a RPG, if you think it isnt, you dont even know the freaking meaning of the term.

You mean role playing game? It doesn't seem to me that DayZ is role-playing, seeing how your avatar is a nameless fellow in a vest that looks like every other nameless fellow with a vest in the game.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

I think they all would be possible, actually.

and now your joking?! ok..so about how many (just approx.) tasks/actions to be implemented as mini-game are we talking here?

They actually did the first aid kinda right in the America's Army 3. It was extremely simplified minigame where you needed to treat the sympthoms with the right kind of first aid equipment. All we need is them not to tell us what the sympthom is, but we can observe the injury ourselves in-game. Then choose which item to treat the injury with from our inventory. Bang! That's a real skill based system within the engine, easily doable

well now so i watched america's army 3 medic system (of course just and...well i quite like the symptoms thing in the beginning, but everything else would be a suicidal thing to implement. if this is really one of your examples (although simplified) i'm certain, this would ruin the game experience for more ppl than a subtle perk/microskill system would.

[CreepySalad 108]

and now your joking?! ok..so about how many (just approx.) tasks/actions to be implemented as mini-game are we talking here?

Like, six.

I don't understand how a system where you have to find out how to deal with the situation yourself would ruin the experience more than a "YOU LEVELED UP!" popping up on your screen after you ran for a bit.

It doesn't even HAVE to be a visual based minigame. It could be just a text based deal.

"________ has several burn marks on his left arm (broken).

What do you want to do?

•Bandage

•Splint

•Apply morphine

•Apply lotion

•Apply Burn cream

•Apply Gasoline

•Stitch

•Give alcohol

•Apply alcohol

•Etc."

A visual thing would be better, as you could see what you were doing. But there's always a different variable to wounds.

Ever played that flash game where you were a field medic in old-timey wars? I forgot what it's called, but like that, except harder, and not telling you what to do.

Edited February 24, 2013 by CreepySalad

[thesodesa 99]

Coordination and fitness related skills could in my opinion be simulated fairly accurately through the use of a system like the one in The Elder Scrolls games, since these are things you get better at the more you use them in real life. Having this type of system does encourage grinding (or training), but should that not be allowed. If someone wants to try and find a safe place to practice knife/hatchet/rifle /rock throwing for hours to gain one 'level' so they can throw things further and more accurately, or jog everywhere to make themselves more fit to enable them to to sprint longer in a fighting situation, be my quest.

Just keep all the numbers hidden, and demonstrate through the capabilities of the player character. that they have improved in something. For in stance the only way to tell whether you've become more fit is to try and see if you can run/jog for longer periods of time than previously. Ideally we should have no menus in game other than the player inventory.

Thoughts?

Edited February 24, 2013 by TheSodesa