Replace M107/AS50 with less effective russian equivalent

[Xianyu 820]

Long title, I know.

So, what's the problem with sniping in DayZ? The two top sniper rifles are semi-automatic, 10/5 round magazines, and require no skill to use at long range due to zeroing, coupled with high-powered scopes and a single-shot kill to any region of the body at any range.

Every sniper rifle below the anti-material threshold require two shots to kill at least, and require more skill to use, in general. Less scope zoom/damage etc etc.

The main argument against removing the AS50 and M107 is 'realism' hurrdurr they exist so they should be in the game', and 'what will we use to take out helicopters?'

I at least concur with the helicopter issue. But I don't believe a semi-automatic rifle that can kill at extreme ranges and trumps everything in the game is the answer.

I suggest this: http://world.guns.ru...rov-ptrd-e.html

This is the russian-made Degtyarov PTRD anti-tank rifle. It fires a 14.5 millimetre projectile (a .50 cal is only 12.5mm), and is single-shot, bolt action.

If this weapon replaced the AS50/M107 as the premier anti-material rifle, it would fit the setting better, as it is a russian weapon, and would improve weapon balance immensely. As a large-round rifle, it would still kill in one shot, but being a single shot weapon firing such a large round, it would require large amounts of space for ammunition (think crossbow bolts), and as a bolt-action, would have a much slower fire rate, allowing targets who were not hit with the first round to find cover.

As there is no scope (possibly as an attachment?), it would be used primarily against vehicles, as an anti-material weapon should be. This would create a more balanced weapon lineup. The M24 wouldn't be immediately tossed aside in favor of the anti-material rifle, and the SVD would be the best possible sniper rifle for anti-personnel fire. Sniper rifle choice would come down to capabilities rather than straight-up power. Trade power for range/usefulness. Trade anti-vehicle ability for anti-personnel capabilities.

Now bring on the arguments. For those who say 'DayZ shouldn't be about balance!' I say kindly shut up, as it is a game. All games observe balance. Otherwise we'd have tanks and APC's sitting on the beaches tearing up new spawns. Because they EXIST in the world and they SHOULD exist in the game, right?

DayZ is supposed to be a hard, harsh world. The AS50, and M107 to a lesser extent, is easy mode.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Xianyu

[-Gews- 7443]

I don't support this for three reasons:

1. The PTRD is from World War 2. You don't see them used in combat nowadays. They are rare and I don't think people would be pulling old, massive, and heavy Soviet anti-tank rifles out of museums.

2. No scope! You can't simply attach a scope to a rifle, it has to be drilled and tapped for mounts, or it needs a rail. I can easily see the recoil of a PTRD actually damaging many rifle scopes or screwing with the zero. (I know the "no scope" part was one of your suggestions but I don't see anyone wanting a large, slow rifle without a scope - I know I don't).

3. The 14.5x114mm in-game is not powerful enough right now (it's used in the BDRM-2 and BTR-60). It only does a bit more damage than a 50 cal and it has much less penetration (!), when in real life it is much more powerful and has much more penetration. The ACE mod actually corrected this.

I might support replacing the American and British rifles with the KSVK, however, which is 12.7mm and bolt-action, as well as already in the game.

It looks cool, too.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Gews

[Xianyu 820]

-snip-

the whole point of the suggestion is to make the anti-materiel rifles less OP. Right now, they dominate the gameplay because they have all the upsides - high scope zoom, semi-auto, perfectly accurate, zero-able to any effective range, ammunition comes in lots of 5 and 10, kills with one shot, and can destroy vehicles, and literally absolutely no downsides.

If you have a DMR and find an anti-materiel rifle, you don't think 'well this is for vehicles. I want to shoot players'. You think 'this thing kills everything better than any other weapon ever.'

They simply aren't balanced. the best anti-vehicle shouldn't be the best anti-personelle.

[-Gews- 7443]

the whole point of the suggestion is to make the anti-materiel rifles less OP. Right now, they dominate the gameplay because they have all the upsides - high scope zoom, semi-auto, perfectly accurate, zero-able to any effective range, ammunition comes in lots of 5 and 10, kills with one shot, and can destroy vehicles, and literally absolutely no downsides.

If you have a DMR and find an anti-materiel rifle, you don't think 'well this is for vehicles. I want to shoot players'. You think 'this thing kills everything better than any other weapon ever.'

They simply aren't balanced. the best anti-vehicle shouldn't be the best anti-personelle.

They need to find some way of penalizing players who choose to carry a 30-lb rifle. The two ways they can do this are by making it take up a lot of space in the inventory and by making it a clumsy weapon to swing around. They should also remove the crosshairs so scoped weapons aren't also good close-combat weapons.

I don't want to see a PTRD mostly because it's from WW2. I doubt anyone would carry it anyways, except maybe clans or eccentrics.

The PTRD suffered from numerous flaws; the most notable are the lack of penetration versus enemy vehicles and inability to aim accurately with a telescopic sight, which frustrated PTRD teams

See? Even the Soviets wanted a scope on the thing. :D

[Chris529 380]

totally agree with the KSVK replacing both as50 and m107, it was the first thing that popped into my head after reading the OP. It cannot be zeroed, it is bolt action, 5 round mags and it is probably very accurate but lack of zeroing would make it harder for people new to the gun/scope type.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Chris529

[Qu1n 140]

Leave it the Russians to build a sniper rifle without a scope :|

but I agree that in a Russian setting we should be stuck with Russian weaponry

Bring on the KSVK, from what i recall of ARMA it was a badass gun B)

[Xianyu 820]

totally agree with the KSVK replacing both as50 and m107, it was the first thing that popped into my head after reading the OP. It cannot be zeroed, it is bolt action, 5 round mags and it is probably very accurate but lack of zeroing would make it harder for people new to the gun/scope type.

I think zeroing is necessary for anti-helicopter work. The weapon I suggest would need zeroing like the AKM. No scope, but zeroing anyway. either that or an extremely flat trajectory, because helicopters hover at 1500 metres away on a good day.

[Chris529 380]

I think zeroing is necessary for anti-helicopter work. The weapon I suggest would need zeroing like the AKM. No scope, but zeroing anyway. either that or an extremely flat trajectory, because helicopters hover at 1500 metres away on a good day.

1.5 km is a little exaggerated since I don't think many servers have a view range of more than just over a kilometer. I don't see the point in taking the scope off a sniper rifle to add zeroing when you can just leave zeroing out of the equation and use the scope properly. Not much fun/skill involved when your friend just says ok its 920m away not moving at all, you press a button and zero to 900 (or whatever is closest probably 800) and shoot knowing the bullet will hit.

Also any pilot with common sense would not just sit in the exact same spot for too long, it's just an invitation to get shot at, a good pilot will constantly be moving and land quickly etc. I mean helicopter hunting with a rifle would be useless if it's moving which is likely the case.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Chris529

[Xianyu 820]

1.5 km is a little exaggerated since I don't think many servers have a view range of more than just over a kilometer. I don't see the point in taking the scope off a sniper rifle to add zeroing when you can just leave zeroing out of the equation and use the scope properly. Not much fun/skill involved when your friend just says ok its 920m away not moving at all, you press a button and zero to 900 (or whatever is closest probably 800) and shoot knowing the bullet will hit.

Also any pilot with common sense would not just sit in the exact same spot for too long, it's just an invitation to get shot at, a good pilot will constantly be moving and land quickly etc. I mean helicopter hunting with a rifle would be useless if it's moving which is likely the case.

Actually, they DO hover at 1500 metres away.

Basic trigonometry. Just because they're only 800 metres away on the adjacent, when you combine it with the opposite, the hypotenuse can be 1500 or more. Depending on exactly how high that chopper is hovering.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Xianyu

[trichome (DayZ) 198]

I find it interesting you think the KSVK is harder to use than the M107 or AS50 having used all the sniper rifles in Dayz including the KSVK your views are missguided. The KSVK is far more deadly than either the M107 or AS50 as it has its very own built in range finder making long range kills childs play. Add to that the extra damage and I'll take the KSVK thank you very much.

p.s. I also find the mil dots and chevrons far easier and quicker to use than zeroing so yeah replace the AS50 and M107 with the KSVK for sure.

Your still going to get one-shot insta killed either way and newsflash all the non 50 cals are one-shot kills.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

They need to find some way of penalizing players who choose to carry a 30-lb rifle. The two ways they can do this are by making it take up a lot of space in the inventory and by making it a clumsy weapon to swing around. They should also remove the crosshairs so scoped weapons aren't also good close-combat weapons.

That, and maybe add some deadzone to it (More like Red Orchestra 2, and not DayZ) so that the weapon is not always pointed at the center of the screen.

[Chris529 380]

I find it interesting you think the KSVK is harder to use than the M107 or AS50 having used all the sniper rifles in Dayz including the KSVK your views are missguided. The KSVK is far more deadly than either the M107 or AS50 as it has its very own built in range finder making long range kills childs play. Add to that the extra damage and I'll take the KSVK thank you very much.

p.s. I also find the mil dots and chevrons far easier and quicker to use than zeroing so yeah replace the AS50 and M107 with the KSVK for sure.

Your still going to get one-shot insta killed either way and newsflash all the non 50 cals are one-shot kills.

I tested the KSVK in the armory before posting awhile ago and unless it's different in dayz or I'm somehow doin' it wrong there isn't a rangefinder. Even if there is gotta be a way to disable it.

snip

Basic trigonometry. Just because they're only 800 metres away on the adjacent, when you combine it with the opposite, the hypotenuse can be 1500 or more. Depending on exactly how high that chopper is hovering.

pythagoras's theorem A²+B² = C² so 800²+ let's say 300² = 730000, square root that = 854.4m away. I think it would have to be hovering 1268.86 meters above the ground to have hypotenuse of 1500

I apologize if I misunderstood but it just doesn't make sense to have it 800m away and not high off the ground but actual distance is 1500m.

I think hypotenuse cannot be larger than adjacent and opposite sides combined that's why it looks weird ^

Edited February 21, 2013 by Chris529

[enforcer1975 1111]

I'm for switching most guns with east bloc guns...only 1% of all spawns should be western weapons and only weapons with even rarer ammo that would have been used there in the SP campaign.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

Leave it the Russians to build a sniper rifle without a scope :|

Every gun is built without a scope

[potapmisha 16]

Please, don't remove Barrett, I love it's noise:)

Seriously, what I can suggest? Make M107 and AS50 more rarely (spawn chance like SVD CAMO). But add more sniper rifles like KVSK, SVD (not camo), VSS Vintorez, more rifles with PSO scope. Shooting from most of snipers in DayZ is easy - put zeroing, shoot to center of scope. Shooting with PSO is harder. And make ballistics more difficult, like in ACE mod. We will not see every noob who found sniper rifle on Dobriy or KOLGAZ (КОЛГАЗ, big factory in Cherno).

[Sutinen 635]

Leave it the Russians to build a sniper rifle without a scope :|

It's not a sniper rifle, using that big cartridge on human targets would be useless. A smaller caliber rifle is more useful for that.

It's an anti-tank rifle.

And I do agree with the KVSK part, I shot that thing in ArmA and it's harder to shoot.

[trichome (DayZ) 198]

It's not a sniper rifle, using that big cartridge on human targets would be useless. A smaller caliber rifle is more useful for that.

It's an anti-tank rifle.

And I do agree with the KVSK part, I shot that thing in ArmA and it's harder to shoot.

It's only harder to shoot when you don't know how to use the built in rangefinder once you get the hang of that, killing with the KSVK is childs play.

[WiFiN 55]

less effective russian equivalent

DOHOHO, YOU ARE SO PROFECIENT IN FIREARMS

P.S. And for fuck's sake leave the guns alone. Yeah, things should be way more rare, but still. Suck it up and learn to use cover.

[Xianyu 820]

Why is it that whenever I say 'hey, sniper rifles in this game are kinda OP' people assume I'm getting killed by them all the time?

I've been shot AT by an AS50 once. I've had an AS50 several times. I've been killed by one twice. The first time was in the barracks, guy spawned in in front of me, I didn't want to shoot him, he shot me and killed me instantly. Second time was on the elektro hill. Me and my squadmate were sitting on the west side of the hill watching what we thought was a bandit in elektro itself. I got shot by an AS50 from the west somewhere.

But watch one livestream. Read any player account. Ask any player. The AS50 is the single most effective weapon in the game. It has literally no drawbacks. It's semi-automatic, allowing follow-up shots with no problem. it has a high-power scope, and is ridiculously accurate at close, or long range. without scope, it is still as effective at hitting targets as any single-shot rifle. it has zeroing, making it perfect for camping. It can take both it's own 5 round magazine and the 10 round magazine of an M107. Both ammunition types kill instantly with a shot at any range to any part of the body. It can destroy vehicles with a single round through the engine block.

What's the next-best weapons on the table? The M107 is in the same vein. I prefer the scope on the M107, to be honest. Further back, we have the M24, which is only bolt-action and lacks stopping power. The DMR can be rapid-fired but doesn't have any zeroing.

Basically, the only drawback to the AS50 or the M107 in any way, shape, or form, is the fact that you can't use the scope in conjunction with NVG's. That's it. Oh, and it's loud. Which really doesn't make much of any difference for someone who actually has the skill to find it. You just can't fire it in towns. But who snipes people from in towns?

I offered up the weapon in the original post because it has drawbacks. Bolt-action, single-shot. Requires reloading in between shots. This means that at close range, it's USELESS beyond the first shot. It would be hard to find lots of ammunition for it. It would be a weapon of skill and utility, rather than the be-all, end-all of all weapons in the game.

I don't mind sniper rifles. Sniper rifles are fun. But the AS50 and M107 remove any skill from the equation. The guns are just simply too powerful. They need drawbacks. Currently, there are none.

[HERBERT-THETREE 44]

I would much rather see down sides to using the weapons than removing them. If they ever do decide to remove them i wouldnt be too bothered as long as there was still some 1 hit kill snipers in the game. I wouldnt care about zeroing as long as it kills. like a lot of people have said KSVK fits nicely. I would still rather not see them go though.

[FlashHawk4 44]

I don't think we should remove them, not one bit so. They would be present to some extent IRL, obviously, as has been mentioned. The ammo itself would actually be MORE common than it is now, because...

.50 BMG is .50 BMG. Sure, there is specialized rifle ammo for the big-boy AMRs, but you can still strip the bullets out of 100rnd .50 belts for the M2 and shoot them out of an AMR. Which is something I want to see in the SA, putting bullets into magazines independently. The idea that I can have one round in an FAL magazine and nineteen in an M14 magazine, and I can't make either of them twenty.

But the guns themselves might be a bit too common, especially since they seem more common than the SVD, which is carried by about 1 out of every ~75 WarPac infantrymen. The Soviets believed in organic marksman support even more than we do. And yes, I agree with getting a Russian one as well, obviously. Not the PTRD/PTRS, because that's not exactly something that would be around. That's the type of gun that only shows up behind museum glass, even the ridiculous hoarders in the Russian Army don't have them. And mind you, AK-47 serial number 1 is in a museum in Moscow, and AK-47 serial number 2 is in a warehouse somewhere.

Maybe using the OSV-96 or the KSVK would be better. But still, keep them, even if we reduce the quantities, considering they're slightly more common than they really would be. But their presence on helicopter crashes especially is fine, because that type of rifle is frequently deployed on an aerial platform, to precisely neutralize vehicles' engines without (hypothetically) killing anyone. Coast Guard does it all the time.

[intensity 157]

I wouldn't mind having an L115A3 or a lower magnum caliber gun (M98B for example). Not as powerful as the 107, but still does the job.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Intensity on DayZ

[FlashHawk4 44]

^^

Also, more varieties of scoped and maybe even one or two non-scoped civvie hunting rifles. We've only got one non-military scoped rifle as of now.

Edited February 21, 2013 by FlashHawk4

[p4nnus 42]

Leave it the Russians to build a sniper rifle without a scope :|

but I agree that in a Russian setting we should be stuck with Russian weaponry

Bring on the KSVK, from what i recall of ARMA it was a badass gun B)

You people always seem to forget that civil war with NATO interference happened in Chernarus, apparently not long before the outbreak.. thus making american/british rifles perfectly fitting for the milieu.

[-Gews- 7443]

You people always seem to forget that civil war with NATO interference happened in Chernarus, apparently not long before the outbreak.. thus making american/british rifles perfectly fitting for the milieu.

True, but what units even use AS50s? I can't find much information on it.

Also, the AS50 is ridiculously overpowered. They need to make it do about the same damage as the M107, there's no good explanation for why it does FIVE times as much damage per shot. Really ticks me off...