My theory on why everyone complains so much about DayZ

[kingflip 42]

well, as the title says. we can all agree that DayZ isn't your typical RPG/Survival/FPS type of game. But i think the reason that most people complain about DayZ is because there is no "script" to guide you through the game. And no, i don't mean script kiddies, or hacking etc. i mean AI help from within the game. For example, In MoH:Warfigter, there's that mission where you have to escape on that boat during the storm or whatever, well, that mission is mega scripted to the point where, you don't really have to do anything or press anything, and you will still succeed, as the game will guide you. DayZ provides none of that. Every action you make has a reaction. If you are successful, then it's because of something you did on your own, which gives the player a sense of accomplishment, thus, they want more (ex. those in favor of the 1.7.5 patch)

on the other hand, if you fail. you feel like ass. Why? because you failed on your own terms, you had no AI help, and whatever you tried to accomplish, proved to much for you, it really sinks in when you keep doing it only to fail. So, you come to the conclusion that it's too "hard" and leave it, or want to have it changed. It's basic human instinct to deny their own flaws. (those against 1.7.5)

Most console games such as Farcry3, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Medal of Honor all have scripted campains, that guide you, to insure success, DayZ is like a giant campain, with the simple fact that the players sets their own parameters and missions. and it's solely up to you to carry out these tasks, and unless you have friends, no one will hear your cries for help.

In DayZ, adapt or die is quite literal.

I know i may be overthinking it, but i honestly think that's why people complain so much about video games, especially DayZ

Edited February 10, 2013 by K1NGFL1P

[willey.erd@oundleschool.org.uk 506]

did not read

Not helpful at all. Beans for you OP as I agree.

[plrsniper 87]

Fail, DayZ is a sandbox. You make your own story. There is no endgame. There is no other goal but to survive for as long as you possibly can.

The way you chose to survive is up to you and you alone.

Adding tutorials or guides or hints or scripts or storylines etc etc ad infinitum is not what DayZ is about.

There are several thousand videos you can watch if you find DayZ to be too hard.

Or you (and everyone else) can man up, learn from their experiences and not remake the same mistakes over and over until they ragequit.

[gravedancer 35]

Best part of the game is the learning curve and teach newbs how to play. Generally we are fat and lazy society. thats why there are so many script kiddies out there.

[BannedOpinion 14]

Best part of the game is the learning curve and teach newbs how to play. Generally we are fat and lazy society. thats why there are so many script kiddies out there.

Essentially this.

I also think the engine doesn't help, and the lack of understanding what 'beta' and 'sandbox' means.

[Udak 104]

OP, you cover ~20% of the complaints. So, in quick list format, here's somethings that I don't like that don't fall under your extremely limited definition. None of this has anything to do with having an 'open script' and instead revolves entirely on either having a bad engine, bad programming, or just stupidity by people not myself.

Zombies attacking through walls

Zombies running erratically at high speeds

People voice chatting over sidechat

Visual Artifacts (was a bigger problem in the summer, I still get occasional outbursts)

Heli Spawns (server-side settings need to be updated, but no one apparently told the server admins)

Night darkness--put in a system of eye adaptation, because it's frankly hilarious that I can use a flashlight and the world is just as dark around the beam when it's on, as when it's off

Leg breakings when walking near defensive fortifications (tanktraps, c-wire, sandbags)

Pistol damage ratings

Female chars can't use any other outfits

ATVs and bridges--OIL AND WATER

Swimming and losing stuff in your bag

The entire humanity system

etc etc etc etc

There are literally hundreds of legitimate complaints about this game. I love this junker to bits, but let's be honest--you do no one any service by boiling it down to "QQ? MOAR PEW PEW"

[kingflip 42]

Fail, DayZ is a sandbox. You make your own story. There is no endgame. There is no other goal but to survive for as long as you possibly can.

The way you chose to survive is up to you and you alone.

Adding tutorials or guides or hints or scripts or storylines etc etc ad infinitum is not what DayZ is about.

There are several thousand videos you can watch if you find DayZ to be too hard.

Or you (and everyone else) can man up, learn from their experiences and not remake the same mistakes over and over until they ragequit.

you obviously didnt read my post, as everything you just said has nothing to do with what i said. you sir, Fail.

[kingflip 42]

OP, you cover ~20% of the complaints. So, in quick list format, here's somethings that I don't like that don't fall under your extremely limited definition. None of this has anything to do with having an 'open script' and instead revolves entirely on either having a bad engine, bad programming, or just stupidity by people not myself.

Zombies attacking through walls

Zombies running erratically at high speeds

People voice chatting over sidechat

Visual Artifacts (was a bigger problem in the summer, I still get occasional outbursts)

Heli Spawns (server-side settings need to be updated, but no one apparently told the server admins)

Night darkness--put in a system of eye adaptation, because it's frankly hilarious that I can use a flashlight and the world is just as dark around the beam when it's on, as when it's off

Leg breakings when walking near defensive fortifications (tanktraps, c-wire, sandbags)

Pistol damage ratings

Female chars can't use any other outfits

ATVs and bridges--OIL AND WATER

Swimming and losing stuff in your bag

The entire humanity system

etc etc etc etc

There are literally hundreds of legitimate complaints about this game. I love this junker to bits, but let's be honest--you do no one any service by boiling it down to "QQ? MOAR PEW PEW"

sorry, i should have been more specific. i do not mean the bugs and whatnot in dayz, im talking about the game itself. not complaining about the bugs, but the game itself. this game is riddled with glitches and shiz that just irritates me to no end. but, because of that, i dont complain on the forums about how "hard" the game is. i understand there are glitches, No problem. i can deal. but, players who refuse to adapt to the way a game plays automatically claim the game is to "hard" when they aren't babied to there goal.

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

It's an "anti-game" for a reason.

[FlamingDefibs 421]

Fail, DayZ is a sandbox. You make your own story. There is no endgame. There is no other goal but to survive for as long as you possibly can.

The way you chose to survive is up to you and you alone.

Adding tutorials or guides or hints or scripts or storylines etc etc ad infinitum is not what DayZ is about.

There are several thousand videos you can watch if you find DayZ to be too hard.

Or you (and everyone else) can man up, learn from their experiences and not remake the same mistakes over and over until they ragequit.

There is absolutely no part of the post that states he was new to the game and/or having negative experiences, or that he doesn't like the new patch etc. He was simply observing the community. There is no "fail" here.

[Udak 104]

The problem is where you draw that line--some people look at drawing 100m aggro for gutting an animal as 'a challenge' other people think that's REALLY stupid, why is it more than a handgun shot for chrissakes.

I'm all for making the zombie hordes more difficult, but not like this--it makes cities into even larger death traps. Shouldn't have every single zombie in BZ turn and run at the mart because I opened a soda. That's silly--and it completely removes the impetus to enter cities.

So I say again, your argument about difficult IS INTRICATELY bound up with glitches/programming missteps and such. If you think the game isn't hard enough, go play 2027. I'm willing to stomach a lot in terms of 'realism', but I'm not happy about this.

[King Tubbs 224]

OP, you cover ~20% of the complaints. So, in quick list format, here's somethings that I don't like that don't fall under your extremely limited definition. None of this has anything to do with having an 'open script' and instead revolves entirely on either having a bad engine, bad programming, or just stupidity by people not myself.

Zombies attacking through walls

Zombies running erratically at high speeds

People voice chatting over sidechat

Visual Artifacts (was a bigger problem in the summer, I still get occasional outbursts)

Heli Spawns (server-side settings need to be updated, but no one apparently told the server admins)

Night darkness--put in a system of eye adaptation, because it's frankly hilarious that I can use a flashlight and the world is just as dark around the beam when it's on, as when it's off

Leg breakings when walking near defensive fortifications (tanktraps, c-wire, sandbags)

Pistol damage ratings

Female chars can't use any other outfits

ATVs and bridges--OIL AND WATER

Swimming and losing stuff in your bag

The entire humanity system

etc etc etc etc

There are literally hundreds of legitimate complaints about this game. I love this junker to bits, but let's be honest--you do no one any service by boiling it down to "QQ? MOAR PEW PEW"

this and

this I have complained about patch 1.7.5

but it has NOTHING to do with the reasons you mentioned I have been playing dayz for a month and a half and LOVED it

but making really buggy zombies really really buggy has not helped the game

I am disappointed that so much as been added but so little fixed (well not the major problems anyway)

add to that that it has broken the game to the point that i have to reinstall EVERY-TIME i want to join a server

I have not had fun with this patch

It seams to me that people who have been playing the game for along time where so desperate for the zombies to be a bigger threat that they are happy to accept then becoming harder in really crap ways

and they probably wont realize this until the stand alone comes out and see how good and hard to play this game can be by just FIXING the zombies

Edited February 10, 2013 by King Tubbs

[*Exile* Sami 188]

True that brotha!

[kingflip 42]

The problem is where you draw that line--some people look at drawing 100m aggro for gutting an animal as 'a challenge' other people think that's REALLY stupid, why is it more than a handgun shot for chrissakes.

I'm all for making the zombie hordes more difficult, but not like this--it makes cities into even larger death traps. Shouldn't have every single zombie in BZ turn and run at the mart because I opened a soda. That's silly--and it completely removes the impetus to enter cities.

So I say again, your argument about difficult IS INTRICATELY bound up with glitches/programming missteps and such. If you think the game isn't hard enough, go play 2027. I'm willing to stomach a lot in terms of 'realism', but I'm not happy about this.

i do agree, that the way the infected act now is a bit much, i really dont think that eating a can of beans should have every zombie in town up my ass, but at the same time, shooting a 1911 and attracting a shiznit load of zombies isnt that unrealistic, have you actually heard a 1911 fire? i have, and it's FACKING LOUDD.

[plrsniper 87]

you obviously didnt read my post, as everything you just said has nothing to do with what i said. you sir, Fail.

Of course i didn't because your post guides people to believe you are whining about "how bad the game is".

Learn to post, you are still fail.

That said, i now read your post and i still think you are missing the point. People complain because they are unwilling to learn plain and simple.

It wouldn't matter if there was a guide or script to follow. They want to watch a movie, not play a game. As such they will never be able to play DayZ and there is no need to cater to them in any way.

Simply tell them to quit before they rage and move on.

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

Finally a nice post !!! And not the usual "Me right - you wrong. Me numbah one - you stupid noob pussy."

I agree with the OP that playing dayz is the equivalent of learning to swim by being thrown -literally- into the water, so it is either swim or die. It is brutal and scary because of the unknown, it is incredibly hard (I would say close to impossible) to survive in a crowded server unless you live hidden behind a pine slowly eating your beans.

However, that hardship is something that you either accept (and then you keep playing) or reject. All the games you mentioned have no perma-death concept as well, this is a key element. Either you accept the concept of perma-death and all the items painstakingly collected in days and days lost in a second or you stop playing.

The unknown, again that's part of why dayz is fascinating (or the opposite, you just can't stand it). You do not know what you can do but you know very well you can -virtually- die at any point in time.

What I (and maybe other players) find irritating in dayz is not the "unknown" but the "unclear","buggy","illogic" part.

I'll make a couple of examples:

To die because another player has shot me it is fine. I must have made some tactical mistake, so I paid for it. Fine. But if I open a gate, it swings and break my legs (the equivalent of dying if I have no morphine), that just pisses me off. It is asinine, it ruins the immersion factor of the game.

To die because I shot in Cherno and was swamped by Zombies is fine. I deserve it because I have been stupid. But to be killed by a Zombie who glitched through the wall behind me, again it is asinine.

Another example about unknown versus unclear and it is related to learning:

I have no clue about how many slots a weapon takes. Maybe there are different weapons, bigger or smaller. I must learn, this is the unknown part. I have no problem with that.

But to learn, I have to try things. So I try to put my L-E in the coyote pack and the rifle disappears. Why? This is stupid. This shouldn't happen, in the worst case let the rifle fall on the ground, right? This has nothing to do with survival-zombie-apocalypse but it is simply poor design.

You apply your logic and wits to survive in dayz. If you think slowly or do not think enough, you die. Fair enough. But to die due to game glitches, well that's what really make people want to leave.

_Anubis_

Edited February 10, 2013 by _Anubis_

[SoulShaper2 243]

, and unless you have friends, no one will hear your cries for help.

Ahem....There is also us crazy nutter medic guys over here! we will give you that oh so morphine high you've been looking for without a charge or knowing you!

Now THAT'S service.

[Udak 104]

i do agree, that the way the infected act now is a bit much, i really dont think that eating a can of beans should have every zombie in town up my ass, but at the same time, shooting a 1911 and attracting a shiznit load of zombies isnt that unrealistic, have you actually heard a 1911 fire? i have, and it's FACKING LOUDD.

I'm not complaining about any of the sounds prior to the update (except that I don't honestly believe any silenced weapon even with subsonic ammo is as quiet as the game makes it out to be, even the bolt makes more noise than this).

But you see what that point was, though, right? That every time the game is made harder (through already buggy zombies becoming EVEN MORE buggy OR actually constructive methods), there are always defenders that roll out on top of the complainers going "AW BOO HOO YOU CRY BABY, THIS IS MEANT TO BE HARD". I don't doubt that it's meant to be hard, but that's no excuse for (as I said earlier) a bad engine, bad programming, or the stupidity of others.

The game is supposed to be hard, not stupid (though stupidly hard seems to be where it lands, more often than not).

EDIT: Jesus, completely forgot how ass-backwards the inventory system is. Thanks Anubis, have some beans. I've seen some beautiful ideas in the suggestions forum about that, though, so I'm not too worried about the SA.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Udak

[kingflip 42]

Of course i didn't because your post guides people to believe you are whining about "how bad the game is".

Learn to post, you are still fail.

That said, i now read your post and i still think you are missing the point. People complain because they are unwilling to learn plain and simple.

It wouldn't matter if there was a guide or script to follow. They want to watch a movie, not play a game. As such they will never be able to play DayZ and there is no need to cater to them in any way.

Simply tell them to quit before they rage and move on.

this is what im trying to imply, people arent willing to learn to play the game, since they don't want that. they expect things to be catered for them already. like, "oh, a military base. im bound to find a really good weapon" that mentality is what drives these people to complain, im not talking about people who complain against bugs and the like, those are completely legitimate complains. but just because a player expects something to happen in a given situation, doesnt mean it will

second point, im not "guiding" people to do anything or think anything. Nor was i complaining about the game, i was simply stating why I THINK people complain (within reason) i really like the new patch infact, and sure, i fuck up all the time. too many to count, but i don't complain, because i know somewhere along the line, i screwed something up, that caused my failure, and that alone. Makes me want to play more, in hopes to better myself. Beans for you

[maui.arupa@gmail.com 16]

I agree the 'average gamer' can feel lost in DayZ, which is kinda on purpose.

And beyond the usual whiners, some complains with passion, whether right or wrong.

This game awakes passion, because it's a passionate game, made by passionate people.

I really see it (ultimately in the form of the SA) becoming a piece of art in the game industry. Indeed there's no real guideline ingame, no one to take by the hand (except maybe some other players), but the game is delivering a meaningful message.

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

Best part of the game is the learning curve and teach newbs how to play.

I agree, I have some of the fondest memories ever playign a game from being a noob.

When a player first plays the mod, they go through an experience no other game can do. After a while your bored of the game and if it wasn't for the Community and the new map releases a lot would have given up sooner.

I don't think had it been a game where you were guided it would have been half as good.

[porkus_maximus 36]

It's an "anti-game" for a reason.

"anti-game" has definately got to be the most ridiculous buzzword to come out of 2012.

[Jamz 253]

1) Its not a game so can't be compared to a game, its an unfinished mod - it is never going to be perfect.

2) Its never been done before as far as I know. Brand new things are always hard to grasp and understand at first so you can't expect people to just accept it the way it is.

Best just to ignore the complaints and get back to Cherno, there are bikes to be found.

[Dreams_Of_Cheese (DayZ) 71]

I liked the DayZ learning curve. You don't see often in many AAA games where you get yourself screwed over. You are able to just fast travel, or reload from a previous save if you want to get out of a tight situation. In DayZ, you have to deal with the shit you stirred up.

[DemonGroover 8836]

I think the majority of complaints have been about bugs and hackers - and quite rightly in some cases.

I think a lot of players also jumped on board and probably expected a polished, finished game, rather than a free mod.

The mod being too easy/too hard is always popular as well.

And then of course you have that classic species called a whinge-ass (Obvagio Culus) who just wants to complain about something - anything.