What is the difference between a bandit and a coward?

[unkillable94 149]

Rocket didn't intend to tell us how to play either.

No but if all you do is sit around and kill players who have no means of fighting back that doesn't change the fact that you're a piece of shit coward, you're defending it so heavily that it makes me assume that all you do is sit on sniper hill and kill unarmed players. If you think you should always be worried that someone could kill you at any second, maybe you should take your own advice and head north instead of sitting secure up on a hill wasting fresh spawns.

[misterwit 118]

No but if all you do is sit around and kill players who have no means of fighting back that doesn't change the fact that you're a piece of shit coward, you're defending it so heavily that it makes me assume that all you do is sit on sniper hill and kill unarmed players. If you think you should always be worried that someone could kill you at any second, maybe you should take your own advice and head north instead of sitting secure up on a hill wasting fresh spawns.

Quote me where my own advice was to head north when I get bored.

I don't kill you because I'm scared, I kill you because people up north are smart and hide, while people on the coast are dumb and give me something to have fun with. When I get back to the coast, I am not who I was before. I've got my kit, I have no zombies to fear, and worst of all I'm bored as tits.

Maybe you don't realize this because you've never gotten this far, but going to the coast, gear or no gear, is dangerous. I don't go there to survive, I go there to have fun and I will probably die sooner or later.

PS: I don't play on servers where bambis are totally defenseless. ZUST has cars with guns in them all along the coast. Half of them have better guns than me when I show up so I take those. Maybe if you would stop taking offense to someone having fun in their own way and calling them cowards, you would learn little details like that. Not that I would be merciful on another server anyway, though, because bambis are usually loot vacuums that do nothing but troll you even if they are friendly.

[neoslayer 24]

The answer is this:

Bandits kill on sight, or after a while stalking the player

Cowards: Approach to you, tell you they are friendly, maybe even putting something on the floor that you need (food, water), and when their looting your goods, they shoot you in the head.

I actually use this 2 ways =)

You have my beans i dont know how to put em

Edited February 14, 2013 by neoslayer

[unkillable94 149]

I rank bambi killers among the worst players on DayZ, so believe what you may but if you enjoy sitting on sniper hill and killing new players I have nothing more to say to you, have fun with that.

[lipemr 160]

Quote me where my own advice was to head north when I get bored.

I don't kill you because I'm scared, I kill you because people up north are smart and hide, while people on the coast are dumb and give me something to have fun with. When I get back to the coast, I am not who I was before. I've got my kit, I have no zombies to fear, and worst of all I'm bored as tits.

Maybe you don't realize this because you've never gotten this far, but going to the coast, gear or no gear, is dangerous. I don't go there to survive, I go there to have fun and I will probably die sooner or later.

PS: I don't play on servers where bambis are totally defenseless. ZUST has cars with guns in them all along the coast. Half of them have better guns than me when I show up so I take those. Maybe if you would stop taking offense to someone having fun in their own way and calling them cowards, you would learn little details like that. Not that I would be merciful on another server anyway, though, because bambis are usually loot vacuums that do nothing but troll you even if they are friendly.

so you play on easy loot servers, dont go north cause killing people there is hard, cuz they hide, and camp bambis from a hill 500m away.

duuuuude, you're sooooo pro.

[mrpickles 4]

So, the question of the original thread was, "what's the difference between a bandit and a coward?"

The question seems to imply a mutual exclusivity that does not exist.

Perhaps this isn't the intent of the OP, but I'm not the only to interpret the question in this way.

Regardless of whether or not this was the OP's intent, the community has interpreted it as such.

Before we get too far away from the original question, let's define our terms.

Merrian-Webster defines a coward as "one who shows disgraceful fear or timidity."

Merriam-Webster defines a bandit as "an outlaw who lives by plunder; especially: a member of a band of marauders."

I realize that the dictionary isn't the final word on the subject.

The dictionary generally defines terms in broad strokes and we're discussing the application of these terms within the confines of DayZ, but it's a reasonable starting point.

So, to the mutual exclusivity claim. Nowhere in the definition of bandit is there any mention of internal, dispositional states. The bandit is one who survives from stealing.

The coward is one whose actions demonstrate their dispositional state. That is to say, the coward is overly afraid and acts accordingly.

No one would say that one has to act out of fear 100% of the time to be a coward.

Morever, no one would say that one has to steal 100% of the time to be a bandit.

It may be impossible to delineate exactly how much plundering it would take to qualify as a bandit. So, let's follow in the footsteps of Justice Potter Stewart: we know it when we see it.

After all the definitions and clarifications, we are left with an interesting question.

Can someone survive through plunder and murder and also act out of fear?

I see no reason why one couldn't. I could shoot and kill out of fear and then loot the bodies to survive.

But some may raise the following objective:

Surely, killing and looting requires acting outside of socially normative standards and that usually requires some level of courage. Isn't a player who loots and kills more courageous than one that hides or runs from other players?

To answer this objection, we must examine normative standards within video games.

Usually in games where we have guns and we can shoot other players, we are supposed to.

The much maligned Call of Duty series is not about having a tea party or teaching children to read.

Call of Duty is a series of games in which the normative behavior within the game world is to kill.

You are supposed to kill. You ought to kill.

There are actually very few games that come to mind where you are given guns but are not supposed to kill other players or NPCs.

If we accept that acting against social norms requires courage, then the courageous player may very well be the one who doesn't shoot. The courageous player may be the one who chooses to run from the confrontation. Morever, if this is true, if acting outside of social norms requires courage, the bandit may be less courageous than the pacifist.

This all gets a little muddled when it comes to DayZ.

Some may argue that DayZ isn't like other games - it transcends it genre to create something new. Our understanding of how other games work simply doesn't apply here. Since that's the case, you fail to answer the objection properly.

DayZ has indeed been set forth as a play as you want style game and I've heard that Rocket doesn't want to define or force players to play a certain way. That's laudable and I enjoy the flexibility of the game immensely. However, that does not change the fact that DayZ exists within a set gaming tradition - even if attempts to sit outside of that tradition. When we play DayZ, we come to the table with all our forehavings, including our ideas of ingame normativity. We judge and experience his work based on prior experiences. Our understandings on how the genre operates may change over time but they will always be influenced by what came before.

So, can one be a coward and a bandit?

Absolutely. It's like asking if you are German and can jet ski.

One thing is something you are and the other is something you do.

[Col. Kurtz (DayZ) 91]

So, the question of the original thread was, "what's the difference between a bandit and a coward?"

The question seems to imply a mutual exclusivity that does not exist.

Perhaps this isn't the intent of the OP, but I'm not the only to interpret the question in this way.

Regardless of whether or not this was the OP's intent, the community has interpreted it as such.

Before we get too far away from the original question, let's define our terms.

Merrian-Webster defines a coward as "one who shows disgraceful fear or timidity."

Merriam-Webster defines a bandit as "an outlaw who lives by plunder; especially: a member of a band of marauders."

I realize that the dictionary isn't the final word on the subject.

The dictionary generally defines terms in broad strokes and we're discussing the application of these terms within the confines of DayZ, but it's a reasonable starting point.

So, to the mutual exclusivity claim. Nowhere in the definition of bandit is there any mention of internal, dispositional states. The bandit is one who survives from stealing.

The coward is one whose actions demonstrate their dispositional state. That is to say, the coward is overly afraid and acts accordingly.

No one would say that one has to act out of fear 100% of the time to be a coward.

Morever, no one would say that one has to steal 100% of the time to be a bandit.

It may be impossible to delineate exactly how much plundering it would take to qualify as a bandit. So, let's follow in the footsteps of Justice Potter Stewart: we know it when we see it.

After all the definitions and clarifications, we are left with an interesting question.

Can someone survive through plunder and murder and also act out of fear?

I see no reason why one couldn't. I could shoot and kill out of fear and then loot the bodies to survive.

But some may raise the following objective:

Surely, killing and looting requires acting outside of socially normative standards and that usually requires some level of courage. Isn't a player who loots and kills more courageous than one that hides or runs from other players?

To answer this objection, we must examine normative standards within video games.

Usually in games where we have guns and we can shoot other players, we are supposed to.

The much maligned Call of Duty series is not about having a tea party or teaching children to read.

Call of Duty is a series of games in which the normative behavior within the game world is to kill.

You are supposed to kill. You ought to kill.

There are actually very few games that come to mind where you are given guns but are not supposed to kill other players or NPCs.

If we accept that acting against social norms requires courage, then the courageous player may very well be the one who doesn't shoot. The courageous player may be the one who chooses to run from the confrontation. Morever, if this is true, if acting outside of social norms requires courage, the bandit may be less courageous than the pacifist.

This all gets a little muddled when it comes to DayZ.

Some may argue that DayZ isn't like other games - it transcends it genre to create something new. Our understanding of how other games work simply doesn't apply here. Since that's the case, you fail to answer the objection properly.

DayZ has indeed been set forth as a play as you want style game and I've heard that Rocket doesn't want to define or force players to play a certain way. That's laudable and I enjoy the flexibility of the game immensely. However, that does not change the fact that DayZ exists within a set gaming tradition - even if attempts to sit outside of that tradition. When we play DayZ, we come to the table with all our forehavings, including our ideas of ingame normativity. We judge and experience his work based on prior experiences. Our understandings on how the genre operates may change over time but they will always be influenced by what came before.

So, can one be a coward and a bandit?

Absolutely. It's like asking if you are German and can jet ski.

One thing is something you are and the other is something you do.

Read your entire post. Very well written. Unfortunately this thread is a place where people will come to vent anger over getting killed, and they may not want to hear logic. In any case, thank you for the educated post.

[Fun With Flares 72]

I think you're missing the point entirely, lul. I choose not to kill non-threats because I don't have to, I am not so unaware of my environment that they will suddenly get the drop on me. If your confidence in your abilities are so poor that you have to stoop to that, it's pretty pathetic.

"Oh no this person with a flashlight might kill me if I don't break both their legs!"

You know, your position would be much more credible is it weren't for your signature.

[misterwit 118]

so you play on easy loot servers, dont go north cause killing people there is hard, cuz they hide, and camp bambis from a hill 500m away.

duuuuude, you're sooooo pro.

Quote me where I said I was a pro.

[leadergorilla 8]

i agree.

one time i was running down the coast and i saw some unarmed bloke he ran up to me and beg for me to not kill him. i told him i wouldn't and gave him some beans and a few mags but the fact that he was afraid that i would kill him just makes me angry to think people would do that.

well whoever did kill that guy before, probably needed that band aid more than anything.

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

Don't get me wrong, I have killed the occasional bambi, but NEVER for no reason. I kill bambis' for reasons only.

Like if I was trying to loot somewhere like Balota for mags and they went running in, they will get a warning from me, and if they do not leave, they will be dead.

When I am refueling my car, anyone that comes within 80m of that gas pump, would be a dead man.

Anybody that follows me without sending a hello my way, is going to join the ranks of the undead.

The situation dictates whether or not I KoS. Trust me, I have had almost everything happen to me. Bambis have stolen my cars. I have let bambis live, and follow me into buildings, only for them to get to a certain loot spawn before me, and mow me down with their new toys. People that have followed me? Have killed me aswell. It's DayZ, you cannot be too careful.

[Dagana 1]

I've killed a Bambi once, but he was a bandit so I figured if he had a gun he would have killed me. Might as well set him back a bit to give me some more time to survive...since then everyone else I've killed has been during a shoot out.

[N0 R3M0RS3 63]

I'm a bandit that kills new spawns cause most of the good people in this game are gone. You let a bambi live he comes back with a lee enfield stalking you until he gets his chance. its better not to take chances

[Major Rawne 0]

The most cowardly action of all is hiding corpses (wasting loot for the deceased and or others) and destroying camps. Just take what you want and then leave. No need to kick someone who has just lot everything because of you.

Also, I agree with everything the OP says - and nothing masterwit says. He's just being an idiot.

[Jakub-SK 15]

One thing is certain . There was a different kind of bandits last year when I started playing , than there is now . The people who played in ealy period of this mod will know .

Edited March 1, 2013 by Jakub-SK

[unkillable94 149]

I'm a bandit that kills new spawns cause most of the good people in this game are gone. You let a bambi live he comes back with a lee enfield stalking you until he gets his chance. its better not to take chances

Oh, no, they're not gone. There are still plenty here. They're just all up north. You know, the place you go once you leave the coast.

[BSB Jimmy 360]

bandits are bandits, cowards are cowards

[HUNG SOLO 8]

Sick of people crying about getting killed and weak as piss combat loggers....

Getting shot at is part of the game, if you don't like it, go play on one of those fairy no PvP servers!

I will admit I've shot dead a few new spawns, but only after they haven't done what I've told them to do.... if I'm pointing a gun at you and tell you to get on the ground 3 times, do it and you won't be harmed.... hell I've given a player blood after they've been bashed by zeds.... doesn't make me weak or less of a bandit.... it makes me human!

If I see a player coming toward me with a weapon, I'll give them ample opportunity to turn around and walk away, if they don't I'll engage them. ... if they happen to win the battle, I won't cry about it.... I'll think of ways to do it better next time!

Everyone plays the game differently. ... deal with it!

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

The most cowardly action of all is hiding corpses (wasting loot for the deceased and or others) and destroying camps. Just take what you want and then leave. No need to kick someone who has just lot everything because of you.

Also, I agree with everything the OP says - and nothing masterwit says. He's just being an idiot.

Cowardly? No.

Tactically smart? Yes.

If it has to be explained to you then you will never comprehend the why.

[liquidmind 320]

I think a bandit stands for everything he does.

Switching servers, changing names to avoid people knowing you are a bandit. Begging for weapons and cars, just to betray the people. Those are no treats of a bandit.

A bandit has to honor the game. When he robs people, he lets them know he robs them.

People who just want to piss others off are trolls and people who kill not to be killed themselves are cowards.

The bandit doesn't shoot out of fear to be killed himself. The bandit does not fear being killed. The bandit thinks about creative and funny ways to rob and kill people. But he always trusts, that he is better than the others. So good in fact, that he doesn't need to cheat, to prove that he's better than everyone else.

Cowardly? No.

Tactically smart? Yes.

If it has to be explained to you then you will never comprehend the why.

Depends on the camp.

I looted some guys camp for more than a week once, before I cleaned out everything and changed the parking-spot of all their vehicles. Was a nice camp I made myself using their stuff...

If it is some noobs camp in the forest, 1 tent, some basic gear in it.. why destroy it? maybe he thinks you won't come back and continues to put stuff in.

But If it's the base of a very aggressive clan, you should look in the surrounding area if they have any extended camps as a backup. You wouldn't want to have them be able to use their backup-gear, would you :-D

I also destroy camps if they have an unfair amount of cars there. I hate it when clans horde the cars in their camp and no one else can find one.

But nothing the team of DayZ Horders can't fix.

Edited March 4, 2013 by liquidmind

[Nerd (DayZ) 16]

Shooting freshly spawned players on the coast with a high-tech sniping rifle is the lowest level you can sink as a coward and below.

Defunct single-celled protist level.

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

Depends on the camp.

I looted some guys camp for more than a week once, before I cleaned out everything and changed the parking-spot of all their vehicles. Was a nice camp I made myself using their stuff...

If it is some noobs camp in the forest, 1 tent, some basic gear in it.. why destroy it? maybe he thinks you won't come back and continues to put stuff in.

But If it's the base of a very aggressive clan, you should look in the surrounding area if they have any extended camps as a backup. You wouldn't want to have them be able to use their backup-gear, would you :-D

I also destroy camps if they have an unfair amount of cars there. I hate it when clans horde the cars in their camp and no one else can find one.

But nothing the team of DayZ Horders can't fix.

I was referring to the hiding body aspect. I generally don't destroy (situational) camps because i'll write down the location and use it as a supply depot later on. Besides, camps are generally out in the tree's, forests, hills. Bodies are generally in a town/city where it is easier to stumble across.

Plus bodies are a lot easier to hide/destroy than camps are.

Saturday on Lingor Island I came across a giant base in a military hanger with about 15 vehicles. They had a sniper on look out pegging anyone that got close. I spotted it from about 700m out before the sniper spotted me. Luckily he wasn't a great shot and he missed me, so I was able to escape. I couldn't get close to it at that point as they had more people around that kept running me off. After a while I had to log out. But when I logged back in the next day I was hell bent on trying to destroy all their vehicles. It was going to be fun! Sadly though, they had moved their base sometime during the night and they were no where to be found.