Who Else Thinks 1.7.5.1 Pushes Annoyance and Survival Too Far?

[Diz (DayZ) 35]

I'm not going to write a huge diatribe on the philosophy of the game, we've been through all of that before.

What I will do is posit the theory that this game, which relies on a balance between different aspects(Zombie, Survival, PvP) has been pushed too far in a certain direction.

Complication and annoyance simply for the sake of complication and annoyance are just plain silly.

Some of us love DayZ for the sandbox that it is and for the BALANCE which existed between the different aspects of the game.

This game shouldn't become CoD w/zombies anymore than it should morph into Mountain Man Simulator 2013 or Dead Island - DayZ Edition. As Rocket has stated numerous times, the player shouldn't feel "pushed" into any particular playstyle.

Unfortunately this last patch "pushes" us a lot farther into Mountain Man/Dead Island territory and I for one don't like it.

p.s. Why not add more A.I. and survival variables into the server difficulty settings to further differentiate Recruit/Regular/Veteran/Expert and give everyone a balance they feel satisfied with?

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

I just googled Mountain Man Simulator 2013 because it sounds awesome.

[Very Ape 748]

What exactly don't you like?

[hazzathealmighty 51]

Could you elaborate on why it pushes us players into Dead Island territory? I haven't played the latest patch yet so i would like to know.

[dulix11 731]

I agree very much, but what really annoys me the most is when someone posts a thread like this and all the answer are like: "Well if you think that then you must suck at DayZ / Oh all you're saying is DayZ is too hard for you and you want to go cry to mummy... / I can play DayZ fine so I assume everyone else can play as good as me, you're a noob..."

Anyways you have my beans good sir.

[Xianyu 820]

Aw man, this survival game is making me survive rather than hunt other people. They should make it easier!

QQ more. I love the changes.

It's survival. And the ONLY thing you had to survive against pre-patch was other players. Zombies weren't even a problem. I could go through Eleketro, and get fully kitted in a half hour.

Maybe try to survive instead of just hunting other players, and you might enjoy the game. But hey, if killing other people is the only thing you can do, feel free to play Planetside 2. You start with a gun, vehicles, and there are no pesky 'survival' aspects to get in your way.

[fathairybeast 246]

I just googled Mountain Man Simulator 2013 because it sounds awesome.

Can't be done. Not until technology can properly simulate the irritation of a neckbeard.

[Rage VG 4033]

There's a logical point behind all of the changes.

There's no such thing as "Too far" in DayZ, you just haven't gone far enough.

[picky (DayZ) 25]

Well it is a zombie "Survival" Game.. And the stuff added is supposed to push that boundary. I think it's supposed to feel uncomfortable, I just couldn't imagine a comfy cushy zombie apocalypse. I think the game type more suited to you would be Wasteland. Play it and see which is more for you.. I personally don't like the "Meta-game" that goes on. And think a game that can say, "Hey, meta-game all you like, IDGAF" is a game worthy of the title "survival game"

There's a logical point behind all of the changes.

There's no such thing as "Too far" in DayZ, you just haven't gone far enough.

There IS such a thing actually.. as there is for everything.. I for one appreciate the attention to detail by the dev. team to ensure that nothing they release is thought of as "too far" through the communities overall perspective. I cant say I know how to fly a helicopter or Diagnose and repair a vehicle, let alone snipe from upwards of a kilometer; Lets just not get too fancy.. It is still only a game.. Edited February 5, 2013 by picky

[LifeHackz (DayZ) 17]

I really like the idea of pushing survival, if you would rather AI and more action, go play Wasteland. Wasteland is pushing one way and DayZ is pushing the other, and that is perfect.

Edited February 5, 2013 by LifeHackz

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Can't be done. Not until technology can properly simulate the irritation of a neckbeard.

That's nothing a couple hungry cats strapped to your chest and a can of cat food smeared on your neck couldn't solve.

[spawn (DayZ) 217]

Everyone That I knew who played DayZ quit because its just Like COD with annoying zombies. I mean getting 1000 zombie kills is piss easy. should be making zombies the main threat not other players. otherwise its just like COD. I mean when was the last time you were killed by a zombie

[frosti 2165]

Everyone That I knew who played DayZ quit because its just Like COD with annoying zombies. I mean getting 1000 zombie kills is piss easy. should be making zombies the main threat not other players. otherwise its just like COD. I mean when was the last time you were killed by a zombie

Thinking about it I wasyn't killed by zombie since I discoverd that I can despawn them while logging off.

[Mr.Saber 5]

Look, like said by others, it's a survival game.

I, for one, was annoyed when Rocket added Hatchets.

After hitting a few zombies with Hatchets, blood would most likely get in your eyes/mouth/ etc.

You'd get sick/infected from this.

The harder it is to survive, the better Day-Z is doing.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Thinking about it I wasyn't killed by zombie since I discoverd that I can despawn them while logging off.

I'm not sure if you're joking or not but that's kind of sad. I've never logged for zombies.. ever and I haven't been killed by them in quite a while. I even somehow avoid the occasional one hit kill/knockout Mike Tyson zombie. I somehow got swarmed by about 40 zombies the other night (these bastards kept coming), one broke my leg, I started to bleed, I ran out of ammo, and I still survived the encounter thanks to my trusty hatchet, a bandage, and a bit of morphine. I guess I could have logged out but where's the fun in that?

edit: That is to say, haven't been killed by them outside of 2017. :)

Edited February 5, 2013 by SausageKingofChicago

[Diz (DayZ) 35]

Could you elaborate on why it pushes us players into Dead Island territory? I haven't played the latest patch yet so i would like to know.

http://www.dayzwiki....version_1.7.5.1

More complication and annoyance.

A few examples:

• Blood bags can give you an infection now
  
• Water can make you sick unless you go through a process to boil it
  
• Lots of annoyance added like when you eat canned food it puts the empty can into your inventory
  
• Meat was split up into 5 different types (more bag slots needed as a result since diff. types don't stack)
  
• Chopping wood attracts zombies
  
• Zombie AI got a boost across the board, they hear better, (hit harder?),chase better, are harder to lose etc.(but are still bugged in so many annoying ways)
  
• Zombies can damage cars and even pull players out of their cars
  
• Ammo drops nerfed drastically
  

Some of these sound cool, till you consider that zombie AI is bugged terribly to begin with and as a result zombie combat is far more luck/exploit than skill based. And the expansion of the infection/disease mechanic is just random punishment for punishment's sake.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Diz

[Rage VG 4033]

There IS such a thing actually.. as there is for everything.. I for one appreciate the attention to detail by the dev. team to ensure that nothing they release is thought of as "too far" through the communities overall perspective. I cant say I know how to fly a helicopter or Diagnose and repair a vehicle, let alone snipe from upwards of a kilometer; Lets just not get too fancy.. It is still only a game..

It's not "Only a game", It's a game that is trying to be as brutal as it can. The fact you think it's too brutal means it's going in the right direction.

Besides, are you telling me that you're fine with having to walk for well over an hour if you don't manage to find one of the few vehicles lying around AND repair it, but things like having to boil your water are way too much for you or something?

[Rage VG 4033]

Blood bags can give you an infection now

• Water can make you sick unless you go through a process to boil it [A low chance. And the process is literally the same you use to cook meat. This is to balance for the fact you can now eat meat raw.]
  
• Lots of annoyance added like when you eat canned food it puts the empty can into your inventory [Not that big, as some people find use in them, and it's one button to drop it.]
  
• Meat was split up into 5 different types (more bag slots needed as a result since diff. types don't stack) [Meat never stacked anyway. If it did, that would be a buff, and this would be to balance it.]
  
• Chopping wood attracts zombies [Zombies do not spawn in forests, so this is hardly going to matter.]
  
• Zombie AI got a boost across the board, they hear better, (hit harder?),chase better, are harder to lose etc. [Wrong, their "hearing was fixed", meaning there was a bug with it that's now gone.]
  
• Zombies can damage cars and even pull players out of their cars [Yes, this is a boost. Does it make sense to sit still in a car and have zombies walk up and just die? Besides they can only damage windows.]
  
• Ammo drops nerfed drastically [They were limited, not "Nerfed drastically". This was to balance the increase in Anitibiotics.]
  

Overall, you could hardly argue that this goes too far. In fact, you would have to argue pretty damn hard to prove that this makes things harder at all.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Rage VG

[Diz (DayZ) 35]

Overall, you could hardly argue that this goes too far. In fact, you would have to argue pretty damn hard to prove that this makes things harder at all.

The argument is that it's a sandbox and the gameplay was allegedly supposed to stay relatively agnostic. What part of "balance" do you not understand?

I could just as easily argue that there aren't enough pink unicorns in the game. But the devs would be wrong to ram them down everyone's throats just because I want pink unicorns.(Which I don't btw p)

Edited February 5, 2013 by Diz

[DazTroyer 227]

Not had a chance to play yet but everything I've read in the change log looks good to me.

[Rage VG 4033]

The argument is that it's a sandbox and the gameplay was allegedly supposed to stay relatively agnostic. What part of "balance" do you not understand?

I could just as easily argue that there aren't enough pink unicorns in the game. But the devs would be wrong to ram them down everyone's throats just because I want pink unicorns.(Which I don't btw p)

The gameplay was meant to be as brutal as it could get, nothing else. That's why you don't spawn with any food or water anymore, that's why these updates happened, and that's why the game has always functioned as it does.

Rocket himself said that if you don't like how brutal the game is, you haven't lost a single penny and he hasn't gained one. Don't play.

[Diz (DayZ) 35]

Everyone That I knew who played DayZ quit because its just Like COD with annoying zombies. I mean getting 1000 zombie kills is piss easy. should be making zombies the main threat not other players. otherwise its just like COD. I mean when was the last time you were killed by a zombie

This actually touches on the fact that zombies currently are not fun or satisfying to encounter. They are merely an obstacle. An annoyance. They provide a "gate" between the player and the rest of the content.

It's not a question of "are they too difficult or easy" it's a question of "are they implemented correctly both thematically and technically" and the answer to both is NO.

Therefore, actually fixing the bugged out zombie A.I. to make them legitimately challenging and compelling rather than just making the existing bugged zombies more "annoying" would be a better solution.(maybe this is beyond the scope of what Rocket et al care to do for the mod but I certainly hope this is addressed in SA).

I'm all for challenge, I just don't like annoyance for annoyance's sake.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Diz

[Diz (DayZ) 35]

The gameplay was meant to be as brutal as it could get, nothing else. That's why you don't spawn with any food or water anymore, that's why these updates happened, and that's why the game has always functioned as it does.

Rocket himself said that if you don't like how brutal the game is, you haven't lost a single penny and he hasn't gained one. Don't play.

He also specifically stated a million quintillion times that he wanted the game to remain a true sandbox and he wasn't (allegedly) going to force anyone too far in the direction of a specific playstyle.

You can be brutal as hell and still maintain a balance so that players don't feel pushed too far in one direction. (p.s. the A.I in DayZ is laughably bad. The only challenge at all is the fact that zombies are bugged to shit. This makes zombies "annoying" rather than "challenging". Adding to the "annoyance" factor without fixing the A.I. to make it truly "challenging" is a terrible mistake. And defending bugged out, easy to fool A.I as "Brutal" makes your argument seem pretty hollow.

Once again, it's not about the LEVEL of challenge or difficulty, it's about the fact that some people enjoy certain challenges more than others. Everyone should be able to find a metagame they love within the framework that is DayZ.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Diz

[theirongiant 200]

He also specifically stated a million quintillion times that he wanted the game to remain a true sandbox and he wasn't (allegedly) going to force anyone too far in the direction of a specific playstyle.

You can be brutal as hell and still maintain a balance so that players don't feel pushed too far in one direction. (p.s. the A.I in DayZ is laughably bad. The only challenge at all is the fact that zombies are bugged to shit. This makes zombies "annoying" rather than "challenging". Adding to the "annoyance" factor without fixing the A.I. to make it truly "challenging" is a terrible mistake. And defending bugged out, easy to fool A.I as "Brutal" makes your argument seem pretty hollow.

Regardless, the devs added Recruit/Regular/Veteran/Expert options for a reason. The devs should make better use of them by actually making them relevant beyond mere aesthetics so that everyone who loves DayZ(even the faux hardcore people) can find a server they enjoy playing on.

How many hours have you played 1.7.5.1 for?

[Xianyu 820]

He also specifically stated a million quintillion times that he wanted the game to remain a true sandbox and he wasn't (allegedly) going to force anyone too far in the direction of a specific playstyle.

You can be brutal as hell and still maintain a balance so that players don't feel pushed too far in one direction. (p.s. the A.I in DayZ is laughably bad. The only challenge at all is the fact that zombies are bugged to shit. This makes zombies "annoying" rather than "challenging". Adding to the "annoyance" factor without fixing the A.I. to make it truly "challenging" is a terrible mistake. And defending bugged out, easy to fool A.I as "Brutal" makes your argument seem pretty hollow.

Regardless, the devs added Recruit/Regular/Veteran/Expert options for a reason. The devs should make better use of them by actually making them relevant beyond mere aesthetics so that everyone who loves DayZ(even the faux hardcore people) can find a server they enjoy playing on.

You know what I think? I think that if you want to shoot other players that much, Find a different game. Or learn to play this one a whole fucking lot better than you currently do.

You can still kill other players. That hasn't changed. It's still just as easy to shoot another player in the back. Or snipe them at long range.

The only difference now, is that the zombies are a hell of a lot harder. So you have to actually do some WORK to kill other people. You have to actually play the game rather than sprint through a town. Get used to it. It's survival, not 'PvP with zombies'.