New damage system

[-Gews- 7443]

I'm just throwing this out there since I'm bored, I don't really expect the entire damage system to be reworked, but I think it's an interesting idea.

What I was thinking was that there should me more hitboxes on the player models, so that a shot in the legs may cause you to bleed out quickly but won't kill immediately, or a shot to the heart area would kill almost immediately, etc. No more killing someone with a .50 caliber foot shot.

My other idea was that instead of weapons having a fixed amount of damage, they should have a percent chance of doing "X" amount of damage. This would be modified by the area hit - a head or heart shot would almost certainly be a fatal would, but a shot somewhere else would have a chance of either doing less or more damage. The more powerful the weapon, the more chance of doing higher damage.

For example, instead of Winchester = 9 damage, 1911 = 5 damage, Makarov = 4 damage, you could have Winchester = 70% torso, 1911 = 45 % torso, Makarov = 30% torso (as well as other body locations).

This would mean there wouldn't be a specific number of rounds it would take to kill someone. Right now you can calculate the number of hits it takes, but with the new system it could take only one if it hit the right place, or it could take quite a lot if the target was lucky.

Right now the damage system isn't that realistic... it would make things more interesting if you weren't certain how many hits would kill a player, and it would mean any gun would have a larger chance of killing someone if a headshot wasn't the only always fatal place.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Gews

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

You sir, get my beans, however I will disagree with you on one point, a .50 BMG is a HUGE round with a lot of power behind it, while yes, getting shot in say the foot or hand might not kill you in real life you're probably gonna wish you were dead (and you won't have a hand or foot, at least not in a recognizable form), the shock from getting hit and the blood loss would kill you relatively quickly. Even the shock wave from a near miss (within a foot I believe) is enough to daze someone.

Back on topic, yes there should be a chance of (maybe not an instant death) but a fast bleed out on certain parts of the body. How many 'rappers' have died from getting a friend to shoot them in a leg or 'non-vital' part, and nicked an artery and bled out before any form of help could be summoned.

Not sure if its the same thing, but I believe Rocket mentioned hitboxes and equipment damage, (paraphrasing here) 'Shooting someone in the head for their night vision will more than likely destroy the night vision.'

[Wep0n 532]

totally agree on that one. adding a certain "chanche" factor makes it alot more tense.

also if you shoot someone with the makarav, you have a pretty good chanche to kill him with a single bullet if you aim correctly.

and a makarov will be also more feared since it has the chanche to kill you pretty quickly. BUT you can be also lucky sometimes and survive ten bullets at once.

*putting it on my wishlist of VERY high priority for standalone*

Edited January 22, 2013 by Wep0n

[-Gews- 7443]

You sir, get my beans, however I will disagree with you on one point, a .50 BMG is a HUGE round with a lot of power behind it, while yes, getting shot in say the foot or hand might not kill you in real life you're probably gonna wish you were dead (and you won't have a hand or foot, at least not in a recognizable form), the shock from getting hit and the blood loss would kill you relatively quickly. Even the shock wave from a near miss (within a foot I believe) is enough to daze someone.

Back on topic, yes there should be a chance of (maybe not an instant death) but a fast bleed out on certain parts of the body. How many 'rappers' have died from getting a friend to shoot them in a leg or 'non-vital' part, and nicked an artery and bled out before any form of help could be summoned.

Not sure if its the same thing, but I believe Rocket mentioned hitboxes and equipment damage, (paraphrasing here) 'Shooting someone in the head for their night vision will more than likely destroy the night vision.'

Ah yes, a .50 BMG hitting your foot could cause you to die by bleeding out faster, and that's part of what I proposed, instead of instantly falling over dead you would still be bleeding severely but still dangerous for a short while. There was a news article online where a woman was hit in the arm by a .50 BMG and didn't die or lose her arm.

Just to clarify for anyone I don't mean totally random damages, but instead of "1911 takes 8 shots to kill player, Makarov takes 13 shots to kill a player" it could be "1911 has a 30% chance of killing a player with one shot, a 70% chance of killing a player with two shots, an 85% chance of killing a player with three shots", etc etc. Damages would be way more complicated though so I don't expect it to be implemented, but it would be nice.

I'm too lazy to come up with math but I'm pretty sure there could be some kind of simple formula with a curve to it. Also it would be nice if some weapons had a larger chance of also making you fall down backwards (not knocked out). I know bullets don't actually knock people over with their energy, but I can see someone falling over from the shock of being hit and having to try to scramble to their feet.

totally agree on that one. adding a certain "chanche" factor makes it alot more tense.

also if you shoot someone with the makarav, you have a pretty good chanche to kill him with a single bullet if you aim correctly.

and a makarov will be also more feared since it has the chanche to kill you pretty quickly. BUT you can be also lucky sometimes and survive ten bullets at once.

*putting it on my wishlist of VERY high priority for standalone*

Yay ^_^

The Makarov could be back in the game once more. Perhaps multiple bullet impacts could exponentially increase the likelihood of a kill, instead of all doing the same damage?

[Wep0n 532]

The Makarov could be back in the game once more. Perhaps multiple bullet impacts could exponentially increase the likelihood of a kill, instead of all doing the same damage?

hmm kinda difficult to implement, since alot of complex situations may break that system. think about multiple impacts from differnent guns, or same guns but from different shooters. and think about te timespan between shots has to be calculated aswell to register if each bullet hitting the victim really belongs to the same "event/gunfight"

But you can bind the "exponential chanche to die" directly on the health you currently got.

The chanche system on each shot can be expanded to fit the realism. sometimes they do more or less damage, and sometimes critical if they are lucky or aimed correctly.

and the "exponential chanche to die" can be implemented in the health itself. the less health you have, the bigger the chanche to start bleeding for example, or bigger the chanche to receive a critical hit.

also i love your "fall down backwards" idea... i think there was once a thread about the character reacting to impact/explosions...

really exciting subject, i don't understand why this thread doesn't get more attention...

Edited January 22, 2013 by Wep0n

[jayman9696 14]

I don't really understand why damage needs to be changed. In my experience every gun can easily kill players. If it doesn't kill them it makes them pass out and die

[Testwd3r235 2810]

I like :D. Have some beans.

[-Gews- 7443]

I don't really understand why damage needs to be changed. In my experience every gun can easily kill players. If it doesn't kill them it makes them pass out and die

Makes things a lot more realistic and a lot more interesting. Mostly it leaves a bit of the damage to chance. It's kind of boring having fixed damage, I find... roll the dice.

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

That percentage should be tied in with hitboxes rather than individual weapons, or possibly tie it in with bullet type rather (after all, with the possible exception of shotguns, what difference would it make if 5.56 was shot out of an AK or a M4 or even if you just hit the primer with a hammer as long as you hit). A shot to the legs with a small caliber would have say 5% 'fast bleedout', 20% breaking bone/leg, ect.

[-Gews- 7443]

That percentage should be tied in with hitboxes rather than individual weapons, or possibly tie it in with bullet type rather (after all, with the possible exception of shotguns, what difference would it make if 5.56 was shot out of an AK or a M4 or even if you just hit the primer with a hammer as long as you hit). A shot to the legs with a small caliber would have say 5% 'fast bleedout', 20% breaking bone/leg, ect.

Well, it depends on the barrel length.

Right now basic damage is tied to the ammunition used, and muzzle velocity (which impacts the damage at longer ranges) is tied to the magazines used. However that means that barrel length has no impact on damage or muzzle velocity.

That can have some pretty substantial effects on certain weapons, like the AKS-74U. It should only shoot at 735 m/s but it shoots at the same velocity as the standard AK-74, 900 m/s, so unlike in real life, it has just as long a range as its bigger brother, better sights, the same damage, and the same flat trajectory, so there is no real downside to choosing it.

I'm not sure if it would be easier to make a "base damage percentages" for each caliber that is modified by the muzzle velocity, or to just put values for each weapon since most have varying muzzle velocities and similar weapons could be copy/pasted. There is a ton of specific data for most guns out there so it wouldn't be too hard to find values to input for each weapon.

I agree that weapons firing the same rounds at roughly the same speed should have the same potential for damage. I definitely do not want a Battlefield 3-type damage system where bolt actions mysteriously kill better than semi-automatics, etc. Heh, although that would give the Lee-Enfield back its punch.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Gews

[CreepySalad 108]

I dig the idea.

It'll bring much more challenge to the game.

10/10.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

This is a great idea. There's a game called Ground Branch in the works that's doing a realistic damage system. They're basing their game design on NORG, Natural Order of Realistic Gameplay. It sounds awesome, and it sounds awesome for DayZ as well. People would actually fear a pistol, and I think players need to be a little more afraid of firearms than they currently are.