(Original)Standalone close quarters struggle...

[mbainrot 4]

I like this idea, but you have to hope that it is fairly secure as someone with a bot would have a 100% hit rate.

Mashing a single key is a bad idea, someone with a programmable mouse (like the G700) could program a macro or bind it to a joystick with a turbo mode thus removing any chance of another player beating them. In order for a single key to work it would have to be rate and timing, with a penalty for getting the timing wrong to deter turbo mashing uber spam.

None the less I really like this idea :) could even have it so you can get into a struggle with a zombie in which case its a fight to the death.

[Tooka (DayZ) 7]

I like the idea of a struggle, but I don't think any of you're ideas are good enough. I think it would be better done differently.

Instead of making a cinematic struggle which nobody enjoys, simply give close range actions such as punching, blocking, kicking, grabbing (the ability to grab hold of your enemy and push them into objects if they don't resist), weapon grabbing/blocking, and throws. When a player grabs another, their movement keys are linked meaning any direction they move, the other player would as well. Preventing your character from being thrown around means you have to move in the opposite direction of the enemy. So if they grab you and are pushing you forward (w), that means you have to push them back (w). Using the sprint button while in a struggle would cause you to move faster or prevent yourself from being pushed back depending on what key you are pressing (WASD). If you don't stop them from pushing you forward quick enough while they are sprinting, you would not be able to resist. Moving to the left while you are being pushed back would not cancel out the enemies movement. Instead, the energy would be combined to move in a new direction. Same goes for the right. Moving your mouse would move your vision as well as the enemy you're struggling with. The same resistance function would work with this. A lot of different combos could be added with this system. For example, like grabbing someone and using a kick to knee them in the stomach or doing a sprinting punch to knock someone back or onto the ground. If you grab somebody from behind without a weapon you could put them in a choke hold..if you have a gun or a knife you could hold them hostage and execute them. There would be some way to counter it if they hold on to you too long.

[Roark92 90]

yeah good concept i think. button mashing wouldnt work out for reasons people have already stated. QTE's dont bother me so much so long as they dont consume the players perspective and remove them from the actual world whilst it goes on. but yeah i think its a solid idea. also (and im very surprised no one has mentioned this yet) the mechanic can also be used along with zombies. lets all admit it here, a zombie standing beside you performing the "hit" animation over and over and over again for a full minute is a little immersion breaking, yeah?

[finkone 320]

You're assuming that I have only gotten in to fights with schoolyard punks like you, your assumption could not be anymore incorrect.

So wait... I state my disagreement and my opinion plainly (in that I believe this is a terrible idea for DayZ and why) without sugar coating it, you decide to insult me on my opinion and suddenly when I return fire I'm a troll? Hah... hahahahah yeah...

I keep coming back here because it's entertaining to watch someone absolutely fail at reading comprehension and then insult me for not reading their post properly. Hello Kettle, this is my friend the Pot.

I have explained, for numerous reasons why I believe this is a terrible idea and because I think you're a big boy capable of going back a page when you're feeling less full of yourself that you can read them for yourself again. Other people have also stated why this is not a good idea (Ping/Lag and other such internet connection related issues that come with an opposed QTE) and you seem to have just ignored them.

So you're not here to have a discussion about your thread and ready to debate the merits of it, you're here to get internet butt pats from people who like being yanked from their game by some random button mashing contest quick time event that they had the rotten luck of being dragged in to by another player mashing the initiate key as they ran around a city. I certainly hope the continued internet butt pats you get makes your knob feel nice and big because those pills you buy online don't work, have a good day sir.

You're right - I am completely past reading your long pointless posts. Keep'em coming - waste your time.

Main point is you came into this idea stating you don't want this - its not a good fighting system. You're a idiot for that - I'm posting a smaller concept within the melee system - WHICH IS IN THE FIRST FEW LINES OF MY IDEA POSTING, that you can't seem to wrap your little kid mind around. So go google more big words, and come back with more random talk that you always seem to post so you can get to 200 posts before Monday. I am enjoying your butt-hurt. I didn't know people QQ over thread suggestions - maybe you can come back once a day and post so my topic keeps getting views? Thanks :X

[finkone 320]

You're being kind of a jerk now. One one of your poll options is literally making fun of people who disagree with you. I'm not really sure why you would do that.

There have been several reply posts saying this is not a good fighting system, I'm not suggesting a fighting system, but a struggle system... people will still be able to swing their axes and so forth... (while not in a struggle) which some people can't seem to understand. If people come in here and post in a rude manner, they are going to get rude back. Everyones still entitled to their opinion but when they waste thread space by simply posting stuff that isn't even relevant to my idea - screw them. ;)

I like the idea of a struggle, but I don't think any of you're ideas are good enough. I think it would be better done differently.

Instead of making a cinematic struggle which nobody enjoys, simply give close range actions such as punching, blocking, kicking, grabbing (the ability to grab hold of your enemy and push them into objects if they don't resist), weapon grabbing/blocking, and throws. When a player grabs another, their movement keys are linked meaning any direction they move, the other player would as well. Preventing your character from being thrown around means you have to move in the opposite direction of the enemy. So if they grab you and are pushing you forward (w), that means you have to push them back (w). Using the sprint button while in a struggle would cause you to move faster or prevent yourself from being pushed back depending on what key you are pressing (WASD). If you don't stop them from pushing you forward quick enough while they are sprinting, you would not be able to resist. Moving to the left while you are being pushed back would not cancel out the enemies movement. Instead, the energy would be combined to move in a new direction. Same goes for the right. Moving your mouse would move your vision as well as the enemy you're struggling with. The same resistance function would work with this. A lot of different combos could be added with this system. For example, like grabbing someone and using a kick to knee them in the stomach or doing a sprinting punch to knock someone back or onto the ground. If you grab somebody from behind without a weapon you could put them in a choke hold..if you have a gun or a knife you could hold them hostage and execute them. There would be some way to counter it if they hold on to you too long.

Yea I think it would be kind of interesting also to see the players control the direction it goes in. Within the struggle though I think that both parties should be locked in pretty well, making it hard to break free - which is often the case in this type of fight.

yeah good concept i think. button mashing wouldnt work out for reasons people have already stated. QTE's dont bother me so much so long as they dont consume the players perspective and remove them from the actual world whilst it goes on. but yeah i think its a solid idea. also (and im very surprised no one has mentioned this yet) the mechanic can also be used along with zombies. lets all admit it here, a zombie standing beside you performing the "hit" animation over and over and over again for a full minute is a little immersion breaking, yeah?

Yea I agree - I'll be adding more into it to perhaps make it workable on zombies. I think a higher risk of infection should take place while in a struggle with a zombie of course though.

Edited December 16, 2012 by FinKone

[dekartz 315]

This system seems ill-suited to the game as it stands.

Axes, knives, and all sorts of melee weapons and I'm engaging in a fist-fight? why?

Also it's a whole 'lot of coding for something that isn't going to be a huge part of the game or something that happens often.

Lastly, your attitude towards people who don't agree with your idea (who have just as much right to post their opinions as you do) leaves much to be desired.

[ParkourLawyer 1]

This is a nice idea though it should not be a button mashing fest but more related to skill so instead of a cinematic you should be forced into first person view and have to use punch,block,push,kick and head-but keys.

[Roark92 90]

This system seems ill-suited to the game as it stands.

Axes, knives, and all sorts of melee weapons and I'm engaging in a fist-fight? why?

Also it's a whole 'lot of coding for something that isn't going to be a huge part of the game or something that happens often.

Lastly, your attitude towards people who don't agree with your idea (who have just as much right to post their opinions as you do) leaves much to be desired.

I think it only seems ill suited because it currently does not exist in the game. once it was implemented it would suit the game fine.

as for "all the melee weapons why am i fist fighting someone"... i think the general idea here is that yes, you had a knife out and intended to stab this guy, but he (realizing this probably) ran close to you and removed the effective space you need to utilize your weapon, now meaning you must free yourself from him in order to use it again. since it is a struggle or grapple for leverage to possibly use your weapon, and not a bout of fisticuffs. you dont stand still and try to box someone an ax. you need to close the gap and remove the potential for the weapon to be used against you, or you need to try to escape. in this sense it is very logical for a struggle/grapple system.

it is a new game and there will be much coding to do, so i dont think extra coding should rule out a whole feature, because everything in this game will require new coding, therefore that seems like flawed logic.

lastly, i have no real comment on his attitude, i suppose he is touchy and aggressive but on the other hand few people here are being constructive or actually addressing his idea as he presented it.

[WiFiN 55]

This is a good idea.

It is much better than clicking franticly with a melee weapon or trying to switch to melee while running against eachother forehead to forehead.

Yeah. This needs to be refined. Method 4 can work for Alpha, but it will become boring soon enogh like it happened to hacking in Mass Effect 1.

How I see this, I'll try to keep it simple:

As soon as you are at point blank you press a specific key and get into struggle with another person.

Holding one-handed weapon or unarmed:

The person initiating the struggle effectively grabs the opponent with one hand (leaving another for action).

Holding two-handed weapon:

you'll just punt your opponet, so he gets pushed back and can even trip sometimes (similar to L4D "shove off" action) - you're interested at keeping distance anyway.

Your struggle can be broken by third person - this will help if you're strangled by a zombie, or you have an ally close to you.

types of moves (with possible keymap in gaps):

Offensive

• disarm - attempt to make opponent drop his weapon (Shift)
  
• damage - try to weaken your opponent (Left click)
  
• drop - attempt to take your opponent to the ground (spacebar)
  

Defensive

• block - self-explainationary (Rclick + Lclick)
  
• break out - get out the struggle state (Rclick + Spacebar)
  
• dodge - dodge incoming attack (Rclick+Shift)
  

Used this system as it worked pretty well in assasin's creed and was pretty intuitive. Spacebar as a jump key you assingned is used for moves performed (mostly) by legs, block and damage are performed by right hand (Left click in mostly any game), shift for cunning moves or performed by offhand. Right mouse button lets you perform defensive moves and lets you perform offensive while released.

_________________________________________________________________

Here comes the difficult part. How to do this? Turn-based or real time?

I vote for real time:

You guess incoming enemy action by his movement and and decide what you do in return - it has to be tested out though.

How successfull your and his action would be are defined by numerous factors such as:

• health condition (health, fatigue, adrenaline),
  
• weight on the character (huge backpack makes you clumsy)
  
• equipped weapon(see below) (new stat "ergonomix" can be applied)
  
• equipped clothing\armor - based on protection and weight (new stat "ergonomix" can be applied)
  
• Skills (it is confirmed we'll have skills, so more experienced survivalist should have upper hand)
  

Also: struggling drains your stamina very fast, so the more you struggle - your fatigue will grow expotentially

Effect of the weapon equipped:

The one initiating has upper hand (with first move that is).

One-handed melee weapon or sidearm (as improvised blunt weapon) gives advantage at attacking moves.

Bare-handed gives advantage at dodging and disarming.

Two-handed melee and big firearms (shotguns and rifles) give advantage at defensive moves.

Upon successful drop action:

Both go to the ground, the one who managed to drop appears ontop of his opponent.

For the one ontop

• drop changes to finishing move which has a chance to either do massive damage resulting in fracture or to knock your opponent out
  
• performing break out has 95% chance to work.
  
• all moves have slightly increased chance for success
  

For the one below

• break out changes to switch sides, if you manage to do this you become the one ontop - this way you can turn the tides in your favor, even if the things went desperate
  

Initiating struggle from behind:

Holding one-handed weapon or unarmed:

70% chance to drop your opponent to the ground and appear ontop of him

Holding two-handed weapon:

100% chance to knock your opponent to the ground (hell, he'd be dead -anyway- if you got behind him at point blank.

In conclusion:

It is somewhat indepth system I tried to keep simple for the players. It might result in some pretty spectacular assaults especially if playes will keep swearing at eachother over comms while they are struggling and zombies are getting closer.

Maybe I'll even create a separate thread for this method.

Edited December 18, 2012 by WiFiN

[WiFiN 55]

*accidental doublepost

Edited December 18, 2012 by WiFiN

[Dylanco1 10]

The should be multiple Struggle types like if you dont have a Primary Weapon you can fight a guy to steal his out of his hand not the ammo that stays on him but the gun and the Clip thats inside become Equipped to you and you automatically have it out one that causes a Knockout or Cuts Bruises and Twisted Ankles Rarely Broken Bones and another where a guy can go to execute you and you fight back to prevent it which can either end in you killing him, Knocking him out or He successfully knocks you out however during Execute you can press the Execute button yourself which initiates it as a Mercy Killing which is similar but you cant Struggle at all and the Animation is something like your guy closing his eyes (Screen goes black slowly) Then the gunshot goes off which could also Give Humanity instead of Taking it

[finkone 320]

Still trying to pool additional suggestions from you guys - I havent had a lot of free time lately. I'm excited that this idea is getting this much attention. WiFiN I saw your post and I'll be picking from it - also saw you created ... another same thread as this one -.- I'll try to include anything that seems legit to my original posting man.

[WiFiN 55]

Still trying to pool additional suggestions from you guys - I havent had a lot of free time lately. I'm excited that this idea is getting this much attention. WiFiN I saw your post and I'll be picking from it - also saw you created ... another same thread as this one -.- I'll try to include anything that seems legit to my original posting man.

I decided to make it a thread as it was too fat for a post and it had to be described in detail. That's why I've put a link to your thread up there. Also, I wanted to get some feedback and use it to refine exactly that method of struggling.

Just add "method 5" option with a link to my thread and decription:"method based on action moves and equipped weapons (possibly post-release)" that way you'll save your original post from being oversized.

[finkone 320]

I decided to make it a thread as it was too fat for a post and it had to be described in detail. That's why I've put a link to your thread up there. Also, I wanted to get some feedback and use it to refine exactly that method of struggling.

Just add "method 5" option with a link to my thread and decription:"method based on action moves and equipped weapons (possibly post-release)" that way you'll save your original post from being oversized.

I went a head and took from yours a bit on a few new methods that I think would work - I sum'd up your idea after shaving it down a lot just to get the point across. Later on I'll add a additional line most likely to send them your way.

Ty for the link at least to the original idea listed in yours. I'll still be adding updates and will most likely start shaving mine down once I get a better pole going.

[Josh225 129]

Just re-visited the thread from the last I saw it and it seems that most people don't like it. Anyway I hope this makes it in, will have endless fun knocking my friends on their ass.

[BLKCandy 12]

The system was interesting, but you shouldn't not make it too complicated, it will be hard to put it in the game as 'melee' was not that focused.

How about a simple 'shoving' (press a set button to melee push the enemy away with low-no damage) and 'clinching' (or grab, or struggle). Clinching initiated by pressing a set button in point blank range. Then the game will put them in the motion of survivors struggling. The chances of winning the struggling should be totally stat based, perhaps based on stamina, blood, hunger, thirst, who initiate the struggle and a random value. Then the struggle ended with a set motion and ending stance/position. This will be a lot easier to implement (And more practical)

Both will take damage during the struggling and of course the winner will take less. The winner would end the struggle pointing his weapon at the loser torso(Pointing it at the head would be OP), the winner the may shoot or press 'shove' to stomp the loser dealing more damage and may put him unconscious The loser will fall to the ground and may try to get up and run or pull the winner leg to try for another round(If the winner didn't shoot or stomp them first), which may cause a loop if they just keep going for another round(but it shouldn't be too long since they both take damages). This will be a lot easier to implement as all that they need are 'Win/loss calculating function' and a lot 'Motion capture' for different stances and weapon in hand. (They can keep the motion simple like by just having them both grab and try to throw the other down left and right)

[Farkinob 19]

No, no, no this is a terrible idea.

Since I don't care to fully explain how bad of an idea this is, let me list four problems:

1) Internet Ping - best man with internet wins 'fastest reflex' competition

2) Assigned Keys - people with superior typing skills will beat the 'chicken pecker' typer

3) DayZ is based on tactics and skill, not button mashing. If you want to play a button mashing game, go play Mortal Combat.

4) Waste of resources - why for god's sake would this be implemented? How often do you stand toe-to-toe with a enemy, I'd much rather have the DayZ team work on something useful and something you would actually come across more than once (if you're lucky) in your entire dayz career!!! Like them making a system where you can modify your guns and bullets more effectively, more vehicles, etc. not some stupid godforsaken button mashing minigame!