Change use of .50 cal Sniper Rifles

[JimJam (DayZ) 31]

The current situation with players being able to run around with .50 Sniper rifles as though they were M16's is clearly nonsense.

These are very heavy weapons, normally used by a two man team, and only fired from the prone position. The ammunition for this weapons is very heavy and bulky.

They should be limited in the game as 1) putting a penalty on movement, and limiting what else can be carried, 2) by only being allowed to be fired from a prone position with the bipod deployed.

Maybe we would get less of the Kiddie Hack-Wankers with .50's too if they were changed.

Edited December 6, 2012 by JimJam

[Failbait 60]

The current situation with players being able to run around with .50 Sniper rifles as though they were M16's is clearly nonsense.

These are very heavy weapons, normally used by a two man team, and only fired from the prone position. The ammunition for this weapons is very heavy and bulky.

They should be limited in the game as 1) putting a penalty on movement, and limiting what else can be carried, 2) by only being allowed to be fired from a prone position with the bipod deployed.

Maybe we would get less of the Kiddie Hack-Wankers with .50's too if they were changed.

Didn't the AS50 use to replace the backpack? I'd love to bring that back.

[TreeSap 14]

For the record they are 27 lbs. Way more than a regular person could hold for long, let alone try to aim properly while standing up. This needs to be implemented.

Edit: Weight is for the as50.

Edited December 6, 2012 by TreeSap

[fire_hazard 19]

Ya know the saying:

When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns

Replace 'outlaws' with hackers, crackers and kiddie scripters

with the loot chance on M107's and AS50's as it is - it is good enough

Like it or not some of us are snipers and are still not killers/bandits.

Lets take away all vehicles, then folks can't get around so fast

Then let's get rid of NVG's and rangefinder's

Then lets get rid of compass's and maps

Then everybody but the hackers, crackers and kiddie scripters can wonder where they are, where they are going and how to get there.

But there's more:

If that don't work we can get rid of all gun's and issue baseball bats and axes.

Do folks know what a sniper team is??

Edited December 6, 2012 by kb5ixd

[TreeSap 14]

Ya know the saying:

When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns

Replace 'outlaws' with hackers, crackers and kiddie scripters

with the loot chance on M107's and AS50's as it is - it is good enough

Like it or not some of us are snipers and are still not killers/bandits.

Lets take away all vehicles, then folks can't get around so fast

Then let's get rid of NVG's and rangefinder's

Then lets get rid of compass's and maps

Then everybody but the hackers, crackers and kiddie scripters can wonder where they are, where they are going and how to get there.

But there's more:

If that don't work we can get rid of all gun's and issue baseball bats and axes.

We aren't suggesting to remove the weapons, we want to change how they are used so it is more realistic.

[carpediembr 10]

Well, you already get the aiming shake when you not in prone/crouch

[JimJam (DayZ) 31]

Ya know the saying:

When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns

Replace 'outlaws' with hackers, crackers and kiddie scripters

with the loot chance on M107's and AS50's as it is - it is good enough

Like it or not some of us are snipers and are still not killers/bandits.

Lets take away all vehicles, then folks can't get around so fast

Then let's get rid of NVG's and rangefinder's

Then lets get rid of compass's and maps

Then everybody but the hackers, crackers and kiddie scripters can wonder where they are, where they are going and how to get there.

But there's more:

If that don't work we can get rid of all gun's and issue baseball bats and axes.

Do folks know what a sniper team is??

What a bunch of cliches this guys quotes. Did he actually read my post? No.

No one is asking for the ban of these weapons, just that they be implemented realistically.

By the way, a US Army report noted the weapon was uncomfortable to be carried long distances, even on a sling on the back, and that is why they come in briefcase type cases. Which means they take a LONG time to deploy.

Edited December 6, 2012 by JimJam

[Pyro_Marine 147]

I use the AS50 (I am not a bandit btw), and I'd be for this change.

Granted I would swap to another weapon. :P

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

Ya know the saying:

When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns

Replace 'outlaws' with hackers, crackers and kiddie scripters

with the loot chance on M107's and AS50's as it is - it is good enough

Like it or not some of us are snipers and are still not killers/bandits.

Lets take away all vehicles, then folks can't get around so fast

Then let's get rid of NVG's and rangefinder's

Then lets get rid of compass's and maps

Then everybody but the hackers, crackers and kiddie scripters can wonder where they are, where they are going and how to get there.

But there's more:

If that don't work we can get rid of all gun's and issue baseball bats and axes.

Do folks know what a sniper team is??

then we can all be pint sized slashers when we get our hunting knives/hatchets ;D

[fire_hazard 19]

We aren't suggesting to remove the weapons, we want to change how they are used so it is more realistic.

Well I have used a 7.62, a 300 mag and a 12.7 in combat

While it is true you are NOT going to be doing much if any shooting a 12.7 unless prone, most the run n gun's in the game don't either.

I laugh at the way most have no idea of the difference between M107 rounds and NATO 12.7's.

They think it's just number of rounds per mag - L O L

You can not make a sniper, you are born one.

I was 19 years old, 5 foot 8 and 128 lbs - I know what can and can not be done with a 12.7

Edited December 6, 2012 by kb5ixd

[sp86 508]

The current situation with players being able to run around with .50 Sniper rifles as though they were M16's is clearly nonsense.

Zombies = Totally Believable

Lugging a .50 around = Can't Comprehend

These are very heavy weapons, normally used by a two man team, and only fired from the prone position. The ammunition for this weapons is very heavy and bulky.

ARMA doesn't have an encumbrance system yet.

They should be limited in the game as 1) putting a penalty on movement

This Option exists, it purposefully was not implemented.

and limiting what else can be carried,

This Option is the default, it was purposefully changed for DayZ.

2) by only being allowed to be fired from a prone position with the bipod deployed.

This is asinine for several reasons. A modern Semi-Automatic .50 is well compensated enough that a proficient shooter strong enough to lift it can fire it. Secondly one does not have to be prone to brace a weapon. Lastly this is not ACE mod, and will never incorporate ACE mod, according to the wishes of ACE mod's designers.

Maybe we would get less of the Kiddie Hack-Wankers with .50's too if they were changed.

If only something could be done about the whinging.

[JimJam (DayZ) 31]

Zombies = Totally Believable

Lugging a .50 around = Can't Comprehend

ARMA doesn't have an encumbrance system yet.

This Option exists, it purposefully was not implemented.

This Option is the default, it was purposefully changed for DayZ.

This is asinine for several reasons. A modern Semi-Automatic .50 is well compensated enough that a proficient shooter strong enough to lift it can fire it. Secondly one does not have to be prone to brace a weapon. Lastly this is not ACE mod, and will never incorporate ACE mod, according to the wishes of ACE mod's designers.

If only something could be done about the whinging.

Another guy who can't bear the thought his 'special' gun is going to be realistically modelled and he's gonna have to pay a penalty for carrying it... :lol:

[fire_hazard 19]

I didn't have to look up what this weapon is, does or weighs.

I know....

Oh and just so you know - they didn't come in briefcases back then - L O L

[puppetmaster11 229]

I didn't have to look up what this weapon is, does or weighs.

I know....

Oh and just so you know - they didn't come in briefcases back then - L O L

Lies all guns come in briefcases, its pretty standard you could compare that fact to say how many hatchets a farmer keeps in his barn.... :beans:

[captainwaffles 41]

So you say you want realism for guns but only the as50 because you are pissed off that you get killed with it?

[JimJam (DayZ) 31]

Weights unloaded:

A50s: 30.9 lb with 29 inch barrel, 29.7 lb with 20 inch barrel

M16A4: 7.18 lb

AK47M: 6.82 lbs

And you are telling me someone can run around with an A50 just as well as an M16?

[colekern 1364]

I APPROVE!!!

[ProfessorKoble 17]

Hmm shooting only while proned with the 50.cal?

and the 50.cal's really aren't that heavy son. I shoot them all the time. Maybe for you its heavy because your like 5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtzk8HNPzHY

[TreeSap 14]

Hmm shooting only while proned with the 50.cal?

and the 50.cal's really aren't that heavy son. I shoot them all the time. Maybe for you its heavy because your like 5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtzk8HNPzHY

So you say you shoot anti material rifles all of the time standing? A soldier would never fire on something if they aren't prone or using their bipod to prop up the gun.

[wolfstriked 143]

^^ perfect video to show how hard it would be to run with these weapons.I posted this before bla bla bla.....two things can fix this but alas Arma2 devs deemed all weapons the same in their simulator. ;)

Two things to fix

First make the larger weapons have the sway when standing and crouched(to lesser extent)that a player has when they just ran for awhile.Not the full sway when totally exhausted but around 3/4's of that amount.The smaller a weapon gets the less sway etc etc.

Second is to add in one notch of aiming deadzone as default to prevent players from marking their LCD screens.

Now try doing some CQB with no crosshair,some aiming deadzone and heavier weapons swaying around alot when not prone. :D

Edited December 7, 2012 by wolfstriked

[finkone 320]

In regards to the M107...

28lbs dry (no ammo) is a no joke weapon system. Every 7th around shot down range is 1 pound of lead released just to give you guys a idea (thats not counting the casing or the contents)

The best common misconception of the M107 is that it is a semi-automatic sniper system...

The weapon system is a 3 MOA system, and was made by Barrett and originally submitted as a EOD system for counter IED/material situations and solutions to be employed with engineers and EOD...

The weapon was rejected on this basis and was sent home crying - Barrett then took the weapon system, renamed it a "Long Range Sniper Rifle" and resubmitted the unchanged weapon - the application was resubmitted to congress and sounded bad-ass, so it was approved.

Anyone that has been into the Army Sniper School in the past 5 years (such as myself) is told that this thing is great for hitting people as the same rationalized range of a M24, or M110 - if you are unsure why - educate yourself on MOA (Minute of Angle) and then figure the rest out from there. Don't get me wrong, ya' can hit a freakin' technical (car) far out... but if you are shooting a single person 1200 meters out there is so many other, better solutions.

No one uses these "carrying cases" during a deployment situation... they are used to transport the weapons from point a to point b, and the case is left at the FOB or COP. The weapon system can be broken down and stored, or shared between a 2 man team, but rarely happens. I've seen these weapon systems fired at close range targets, from the kneeling position unsupported so thats a myth that prone is the only option.

Now that we've covered a few things... lets take other things into consideration.

M107 is not the only heavy weapon system in the game.

For example the M240B (belt fed) weapon system is 23 pounds dry, thats without its 100rnd'er hanging from there. That guy is fired from the unsupported position also.

Will we be forced to be slower carrying a engine block, or a main rotor for a helo in our backpack if realism is the deal we are going to get carried away on?

Our characters already move at a PT stud pace with a ruck, regardless of other factors - in a game where running is the most common thing, is this something we want to implement?

Slowing a active sniper from making a escape will only lead to server hopping more and more for those "legit" Cherno/Lectro snipers - do we really want to encourage more Alt + F4ing, or ghosting?

While it would be nice to see some type of heatcat system placed into the game, or some better ruck sack system in the game, it wouldn't be fair to only slow a player because he has a more dangerous weapon system.

The only respectable thing to do would be implement a system that covers not just weapons but all items in your pack - but once we do that, the sniper with the M107 will roll low ammo, light weight... and you might have to dump that car engine in your pack to catch him... which in turn wouldn't lead the any solution at all in the first place.

So I understand where you are coming from - me and my buddies always joke about being able to move so far, non-stop, with such a heavy load, and need very little water considering the movement speeds and distances we are doing... but I think if they ONLY did this to weapon systems that you dislike - it wouldn't solve anything at all.

[sp86 508]

Another guy who can't bear the thought his 'special' gun is going to be realistically modelled and he's gonna have to pay a penalty for carrying it... :lol:

Hate to tell you buddy, but if I find an M21 and an M107 in the same area I'll take the M21 every single time.

[JimJam (DayZ) 31]

Hmm shooting only while proned with the 50.cal?

and the 50.cal's really aren't that heavy son. I shoot them all the time. Maybe for you its heavy because your like 5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtzk8HNPzHY

:D :D :D

You can hear his buddy say:

"J**sus Ch***t that was out of bounds."

Accuracy is zero... :D

You can also see this guy is grunting with the effort as he tries to hold his sights on... and then his barrel control is completely shot... This example is a joke. At 100 yards, maybe, not for sniping.

Edited December 7, 2012 by JimJam

[JimJam (DayZ) 31]

M107 is not the only heavy weapon system in the game.

For example the M240B (belt fed) weapon system is 23 pounds dry, thats without its 100rnd'er hanging from there. That guy is fired from the unsupported position also.

Will we be forced to be slower carrying a engine block, or a main rotor for a helo in our backpack if realism is the deal we are going to get carried away on?

Our characters already move at a PT stud pace with a ruck, regardless of other factors - in a game where running is the most common thing, is this something we want to implement?

Slowing a active sniper from making a escape will only lead to server hopping more and more for those "legit" Cherno/Lectro snipers - do we really want to encourage more Alt + F4ing, or ghosting?

While it would be nice to see some type of heatcat system placed into the game, or some better ruck sack system in the game, it wouldn't be fair to only slow a player because he has a more dangerous weapon system.

The only respectable thing to do would be implement a system that covers not just weapons but all items in your pack - but once we do that, the sniper with the M107 will roll low ammo, light weight... and you might have to dump that car engine in your pack to catch him... which in turn wouldn't lead the any solution at all in the first place.

So I understand where you are coming from - me and my buddies always joke about being able to move so far, non-stop, with such a heavy load, and need very little water considering the movement speeds and distances we are doing... but I think if they ONLY did this to weapon systems that you dislike - it wouldn't solve anything at all.

Good comments, I would welcome all issues he mentions being examined.

As far as people "Alt F4'ing" out, I think there should be a restriction against exiting the game for 1 minute after you fire a shot, or a shot hits within 10 meters of you. You could exit, but your character stays there to be shot or otherwise suffer the consequences.

[aksuduud 64]

Replace the .50s with, say L115A3 LRRs, weighs 7kgs and kills people from far away, also according to wikipedia Czech 601st special operations group actually uses them.

Anyhow, i dont see the difference in being OHKd with a .50 versus being almost OHKd with a 7.XX caliber round.