L85 Should it stay or go

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

I voted no. Rarer yes but removal no.

The fact that you are asking the community for input on this is silly at best. Either do it or don't, all your gonna get with the responses are idiots scream for or against it.

In the end do what you guys think is best.

If this is going to become a trend with you guys, let me know now so i don't waste my time with a player influenced P.O.S. We are the moronic masses, pull from us but please don't cater to us. It always hurts the game in the end.

[Spikér 136]

Remove the scope and replace it with either the SUSAT or the REAL CWS (which was a Night Vision scope only!)

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

You forgot about a certain type of player, the type of player I am. I enjoy the PVP aspect due to the intensity, if I die I am going to have to start from the start again. Saying 'just go play ArmA' is stupid because I get handed the equipment. In DayZ I have to spend hours, days, weeks and even months getting certain things and when I lose that gear, it really sucks!

I will not shoot you on the coast but as soon as you're north of Mogilevka, it's game on!

Wasteland is actually pretty cool. The only things you're handed is a G17 with 1 magazine, compass & map. You have to search vehicles or locate a friendly base for anything better. It's basically a PVP focused DayZ clone without zombies, and better base building. It might not take you days, weeks or months to find the best gear in the game, but it still sucks when you get killed and have to make your way back from whatever random town you get spawned into.

Try it out, you might be pleasantly surprised. I know I was.

Edited November 28, 2012 by bad_mojo

[Pvt. James Duke 28]

Ok how about this scrap the thermal and put in a 5x magnification scope on top with a Holo sight on the side for close encounters. That way you can't snipe too far out and you can actually fight in CCB.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Pvt. James Duke

[BAPBAP 11]

Keep it untouched.

Problem is not in thermal. Problem is in duping.

Wipe L85 from hive, make ir rarer, but keep rifle intact.

Thermal must be the part of the game. Maybe not L85, but Ak-74 with thermo capability. Or let passenger of AH6X work with his sophisticated camera (which has thermo mode).

[MaxUK 1]

The thermal needs removing. Most people voting to keep it probably have one in their possession which case I'd probably want it keeping too. Being able to scan the horizon in seconds and spot any other players that easily is a little OP in my opinion. Keep the gun in the game but bin the thermal.

[bogulez 11]

Keep it. If duping is not an issue then it will stay extremely rare. I don't have one right now but finding one is a fun goal for a lone wolf.

[Azrail (DayZ) 211]

by the looks of it, the whiners win because those who have no problem with it will not likely come to the forums specifically to diskuss this matter.

making this vote flawed to begin with.

any chance to at least re-do the poll with adding my suggestion?

my opinion + suggestion on this matter:

rocket wants to give us options, and patching guns out is actually limiting options. so removing the L85 can't be in rocket's interest.

instead, thermal sights should be adjusted, so that warm clothing (like you can get in namalsk) would actually reduce your thermal signature.

then people can have a counter to thermal sights, but then again they can't wear a ghillie suit. so they have to decide which kind of cover is needed more likely.

options :)

and then i remember rocket stating, that he doesn't want DayZ to be a balanced game, much more like an anti-game, unfair and harsh and making you pull your hair out.

maybe we should respect this and get back to the roots, DayZ is becomming to carebear friendly.

i will admit that any gun with thermal sights has to be super rare,

but i don't agree to take something out, just because people complain about it enough.

by that argument we also need to remove 3rd person, nameplates and waypoints.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Azrail

[Erizid 56]

It's a question of where you want the frustration to come from. Do you want to be frustrated by zombies killing you over and over, diseases wrecking your colon, dehydration, or element exposure? Or do you want to be frustrated by the guy standing on the Elektro hospital at night with an L85 Thermal shooting everyone for hours?

Edit: Also there is probably a huge bias against the L85 because it was duped for so long. I would put it back in and revisit this question a month or two after standalone comes out.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Erizid

[Azrail (DayZ) 211]

It's a question of where you want the frustration to come from. Do you want to be frustrated by zombies killing you over and over, diseases wrecking your colon, dehydration, or element exposure? Or do you want to be frustrated by the guy standing on the Elektro hospital at night with an L85 Thermal shooting everyone for hours?

it actually doesn't matter

you have to take into account that anyone can be anywhere, watching you, stalking you, shooting bambies just for the lolz.

the L85 can't make that any worse. what it does, it removes the element of stealth.

this will help against campers, but it will also reduce the amount of tactics that can be applied.

still the freedom of choice has a higher priority imo, so fixing the actual problem is better then just removing the whole gun.

you can actually get killed by a tree, so dying to a L85 would at least be a legit kill i can agree with.

if someone is camping solo with this beast, and i die to it,

i call my friends to get there and grab it, i mean free L85 ftw :D

a group camping with high gear in low risk low reward spots is annoying,

but you just suck it up and just don't go there for the time being.

dayz has been like that since the start and yet it got this far.

and the L85 didn't magically become sooo imbalanced over night, it makes no sense to remove it now.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Azrail

[fire_hazard 19]

Replace with an Alternative (without Thermal)

Why

We now have all the Stanag weapons we need.

Lets be real the L85 is a standard 5.56 with a nice scope.

Take away the scope and well.

Vote it in or out, plain and simple.

[terminal_boy 860]

Replace thermal L85 with L85 fitted with original SUSAT or recent ACOG.

Thermal weapon sights should be extraordinarily rare as only Tier 1 SoF units would have these fitted to small arms.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Terminal Boy

[Sula 1205]

I'm glad you posted this poll, R4ZR49. It has made me think about my ambivalence to the L85 and also about the wider long-term impact on DayZ game-play, should we lose it.

For example, if the L85 goes - and I just voted for it to be replaced by something else, not because that's what I want but because I want as few snipers and PvPers as possible to have access to night-vision when regular players don't have access. But it goes both ways, they'll lose out too. So maybe I voted the wrong way. Time will tell.

Here are a few of my thoughts on the L85's staying/going and its impact on the game:

NVGs are ridiculously and inexplicably hard to find in DayZ, which means many people don't want to play at night as it makes them cannon fodder for those who managed to hack or duplicate a pair. (Has anyone ever actually found a pair? I haven't. Like most people mine were given to me from another player's camp. I assumed they were valid but who really knows?)

That's why daytime only servers show up, and why these new private hives are so well loved. Many give you NVGs, some give you more but many just give you NVGs so everyone can play on a night server. I like that a lot, it stops the advantage going to what I call the lowest of the low - bandits and such.

So, if the L85 goes - we lose the only other way to get night-time vision without NVGs. How will that impact upon the game? How will those who join a server at night, find their way out of a forest, for example, if they don't have the L85 or the impossibly hard to find NVGs? You could argue they should carry chemi-lights or flares but those things are deadly adverts that say "come kill me", and who has the room in most backpacks?

More generally, I think any removal of a significant item from the game is worth considering in the wider context, asking how it will impact on player enjoyment and on game popularity too.

Issues in isolation are easy to vote for but that doesn't mean that everyone has considered the impact of the loss of the L85 more widely on the game, such as what's left for players to use to survive at night while on the move and trying to avoid bandits. :thumbsup:

Also, can I assume you mean in the standalone game, assuming community developers may well choose to re-add the gun to the mod at a later date, along with possibly taking the mod in different directions?

Edited November 29, 2012 by Sula

[Brew78 27]

Remove it, add alternative L85 and add a thermalvision to nvg/binoculars/ rangefinder slots and make it the most rare thing in the game

Agreed. I was thinking that a thermal scope by itself would still be great for spotting, just remove the ability to fire while using it.

[com1 10]

Agreed. I was thinking that a thermal scope by itself would still be great for spotting, just remove the ability to fire while using it.

sounds like you never had the gun. The l85 is actually just usefull up to 300m. So its basicly a low-mid range weapon. No you cant camp on elektro roof and shot everybody for hours... its not a sniper. The first guy with a sniper will kill the l85 on the roof easily from 500-800m. The l85 cant do anything at this range. The zeroing of the l85 is useless.

A thermal scope will be absolutely the same as a l85 aws because the l85 aws was just used to spot enemys, then switch to as50 and go for the shot.

Remove waypoints and nameplates because this features makes a rangefinder useless!

Regular servers are so... I get the distance without the need of a rangefinder...

Veteran servers... I use waypoints to get the distance.

Remove the range count on waypoints, just leave the arrow. I cant tell the exact distance to any target on a map in real life, can you?

Edited November 29, 2012 by com1

[Pennyworth (DayZ) 33]

Unless i can hide from thermal sights (think Arnie in the Predator movie covering himself in mud!!) then i say get rid of it.

However, if duping is eventually fixed then i have no problem it being an ultra rare drop.

or Arnie in the eraser and hide behind a refrigerator from a IR scoped rail gun

[Mad Z 51]

Since duping and hacking means the weapon is extremely common, it should be removed for now. I would love to see it back as a rare drop once gear actually means something again.

[SkrooLoose (DayZ) 143]

Many keep mentioning keeping it if there was a counter, and mentioning "Arnold" and "Predator".

Well, how about this...

Currently we can go to a pond and fill our canteens. Why not add the option to go to a pond and "roll in the mud"? Then also have an icon (along with our others on the right of the screen) which shows our "cooled down" period, and have it slowly decrease, just the same as our drink and hunger.

[Erizid 56]

I am probably going to change my vote now. If they truly are going to make weapons and attachments separate items in Standalone, then this poll needs to be changed. I highly doubt the L85 would even spawn with any sights. Then it is just a matter of how rare is the scope, how long is the battery life and how common are batteries.

All these factors add up to a much lower impact the L85 Thermal will have against other players.

[Luieburger 15]

Remove it, or replace it with a non-thermal version.

[rooneye 135]

Definitely replace it with a none thermal L85. I get the reasons for taking it out and couldnt agree more, but I dont understand why you wouldnt replace it. It's not like there aren't other versions of L85's already in the game. Personally I would LOVE to see the SUSAT version in there like the British Army really uses. Nice little alternative to the M16 ACOG, and seeing as there is only one (sorta)-scoped assault rifle weapon in the game it would be nice to have an extra one, and the thermal was scoped too. On private servers the trend seems to be for L85 Holo instead of the thermal.

[Prototype771 4]

Ok, so there is a fair fight going on here. Whilst we know the thermal does give an advantage, the gun itself is pretty weak considering. I do like the gun but there's a reason why this gun isn't much of a problem (if you dont have a sniper). It lacks range to snipe. So why is this gun such a problem? Your Sniper rifles are the problem. The AS50 sniper rifle with the CWS l85 IS overpowered. Granted these are rare spawns, script kiddies will be glad to hand a n00b these guns. So, how to actually fix this. For now, I voted replace the gun for the sake of the AS50 being in the mod (and the other OP sniper, forgot the name). I love the DMR, M14, and the M24. They all are fun to play with, but your .50 caliber snipers cause the problem for people complaining about the gun. So, to solve this problem, wipe out the 50 cal sniper rifles. Now, I will get flamed for that sentence, but use logic here. Those guns can shoot up to like 1/5th of the map or whatever the stats were, and although they were made to be rare, people still duplicate the ammo/guns. I have been killed too many times by these guns simply because they really are not hard to find anymore due to the amount of script kiddies in the game now. To combat this, get rid of some of the things that they often use. If anything, wipe those 50 cals and replace them with more gun variants for assault rifles, pistols, SMGs, and entry level weapons. Also, mud roll is silly in my opinion. It is an interesting idea, but the thermal scope itself isn't really a problem. Add a gamma restrictor. Monitors (and win7) already have gamma correctors and such. The game really doesnt need it. I personally want to see people use flashlights and chemlights and flares more often. They are always leftovers from loot spawns and not using them ruins the "survival" feel.

SUMMARY FOR QUICK READERS!

-take out as50 and other 50 call guns

-keep l85 cws and add variants for the l85

-to compensate for the loss of 50 cals, add more guns/accessories and variants. Not hard to do

-dont add in "mud roll" not practical in the game and is really kind of silly.

-dont add thermal goggles, they dont even exist in the game (that im aware of at least)

-PvP in this game should be based more off of CQB, not really long range combat, ARs are fine however

-lock gamma to default. People are too lazy to correct their own monitors so thats why it was put there in the first place. make them work to "cheat"

[BillyBobJoe (DayZ) 8]

I personally like the L85, still lucky enough to have one on my public hive character last I checked. Some people complain that it's OP but I disagree. It's really not the most accurate gun and it's 5.56 so its got the same power as all the other STANAG rifles. I personally don't think it's that big of a deal.

If the vote fails to keep it in, I see no reason to replace it. The L85 with an ACOG isn't really that much different than the M16 ACOG.

I'm not going to be upset if it stays out but I personally vote to keep it in.

I do also agree though, that perhaps having a thermal scope that is unattached (perhaps to replace NVG or binocs) may be kind of fun to explore. Or perhaps consider for SA since gun modifications seem to be an topic to be toyed wtih.

[gortzy 0]

we need it ;)

[Optimus Prime Rib 1]

I really don't think the L85 should go. Especially in light of the vastly improved anti-cheat that will be available in standalone. The problem was never the L85. It's always been hackers. Same issue that causes the AS50 to be a problem. Reduce L85 spawns and track hacked weapons better. If the L85 were just a rare gun and not duped all over the place it wouldn't be an issue because there would possibly be 2 on a server. The NVGs are a pretty big advantage, and I haven't seen any lobbying to have them removed.