Expert/Mercenary/Hardcore Servers Are Empty

[Kain Phalanx 9]

I'm back to playing after a few months hiatus and I notice that high difficulty servers are pretty much empty. I'm not sure if the introduction of new maps, which I don't care about at all, thinned out the playerbase or if it was always this way, but we need more people on these servers.

Is it the first person lock that's keeping people away? I don't see why people prefer third person. It doesn't give you an advantage unless you're a camping bandit. What other game would you play where the other side gets an unfair advantage like that? It's also a pain to micro-manage in that capacity and in general as it's hard to switch on the fly. I watch people play with it and they actually have worse spatial awareness and aiming because of the clunky game engine. It's pretty ridiculous to see people shimmy backwards around corners with their gun in the wall to see around it, that's the purpose of the Q and E keys.

Waypoints turn maps into GPSs. The smart menu cursor makes the rangefinder, rangefinding techniques, and to some extent camoflouge obsolete. The aiming cursor suggests it's the result of aiming down the sights, but then why can you also actually aim down the sights? It's hipfiring, it shouldn't be accurate. This is all information you shouldn't have.

[jan_f_w 23]

Agreed.

Our two squads (5 friends and me) just rented a 20 slot private hive Namalsk and disbaled everything - literally! Nothing of the helping features is turned on; only disbaling peripheral dots made problems recently but I hope the next restart will solve this issue.

[echo38 4]

What Expert servers? : /

I'm not even joking. I'm only aware of three--count 'em, three--public-hive servers running the current version on Expert/Mercenary difficulty, at present. One's in Germany, one's in Luxembourg, and the other's in U.S.A. At least two of these are frequently down for entire days at a time, so there's a maximum of one that's reliably up (that'd be the Luxembourg one). Actually, I'm not even sure that the other two even exist anymore. Haven't seen them for two days.

There are a few more private-hive Expert servers, but these are often just as unreliable, and also usually have the added requirement of signing up to a forum or something before joining. I play on one which is very good, but it is an exception--the only one I've found so far.

As for your question, the answer is simple: people, as a rule, don't want to have to work in order to win. With few exceptions, they want to win without having to put forth any effort.

Edited November 14, 2012 by A. Darkthorn

[SmokenScion 7]

Name tags identify hackers.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

i only play on 3RD person and CH servers..

for no other reason then thats what i like viewing when i play.

ps i dont PVP at all, so its not for camping reasons thats for sure.

[ZomboWTF 527]

i dont want any helping stuff, no side-screen indicators of zombies and animals, no CH, no freaking player tags, nothing of that, except for third person

reason is, you cant have the spatial awareness of third person without using the fish eye numpad - key or looking frantically around you with alt

also you dont know at all where your bodyparts are, or wether your gun sticks around the corner or not, and it gives you a huge disadvantage when hiding in tall grass

this is all only possible with third person, the only bad thing is people looking around corners and the immersion gets a little hit by it, but not only camping bandits can use the third person cam, you can also look if anyone is where you want to go without being in danger, giving BOTH sides the same advantage, using it to talk to people and make them lower their gun or drop it is a very nice tactic to meet up with people who would otherwise just shoot you straight away

[Parasprite 35]

I would play on mercenary servers if other people did. The best I can do is stick to veteran servers and have name tags filtered out at all times.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Name tags identify hackers.

Source on this?

[Parasprite 35]

Source on this?

Lazy admins who don't want to bother to check the logs and don't realize that hackers can dodge it with extreme ease.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Lazy admins who don't want to bother to check the logs and don't realize that hackers can dodge it with extreme ease.

My point exactly. It's just like when somebody claimed the kill messages help combat combat loggers. Like putting up cardboard cutouts of cops on every street corner will help fight crime.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Expert is an unpopular difficulty, obviously. I do agree with some of your points, and others I don't. It's super easy to switch from third/first person. Example: When I'm in third person I right click the mouse and I'm immediately in aim mode. First person only is as unrealistic as third person, but the non-expert servers allow a combination of both which I feel is effective. This game is more than a FPS, as I've mentioned countless times. Very few people (like yourself) want to be locked into first person 24/7.

Waypoints turn maps into GPSs. The smart menu cursor makes the rangefinder, rangefinding techniques, and to some extent camoflouge obsolete. Agree with everything you say here, and for the most part veteran servers take care of this.

The aiming cursor suggests it's the result of aiming down the sights, but then why can you also actually aim down the sights? It's hipfiring, it shouldn't be accurate. Agreed, it is hip firing. Though I do like the idea of cross hairs being there for those close encounters where accuracy is not a concern. I think if crosshairs are to be used that it should be REALLY inaccurate from distances of 5+ feet, where as it stands now it is pretty accurate.

That's my take on it, in a nutshell.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Source on this?

I think he's referring to if he sees someone hacking, the nametag will identify said person.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I think he's referring to if he sees someone hacking, the nametag will identify said person.

I know what he's saying. But, does it actually happen? If I posted a picture of a hackers nameplate with a box spawned in front of him, would they be able to do anything without evidence in the logs? (Talking about official hive servers)

[Kain Phalanx 9]

this is all only possible with third person, the only bad thing is people looking around corners and the immersion gets a little hit by it, but not only camping bandits can use the third person cam, you can also look if anyone is where you want to go without being in danger, giving BOTH sides the same advantage, using it to talk to people and make them lower their gun or drop it is a very nice tactic to meet up with people who would otherwise just shoot you straight away

If both can use it effectively then it's not an advantage. However, an advantage does actually go to those who can use it to grant a large vantage while not being exposed at all, like over a crest or on a roof, in other words, camping bandits.

What's the problem with using alt to look around? It's what you're supposed to do from what I gather, using the look key when you want to look around. Third person's the same, just with a larger FOV. I spend more time holding alt than not.

[Inception. 9443]

I'm back to playing after a few months hiatus and I notice that high difficulty servers are pretty much empty. I'm not sure if the introduction of new maps, which I don't care about at all, thinned out the playerbase or if it was always this way, but we need more people on these servers.

Is it the first person lock that's keeping people away? I don't see why people prefer third person. It doesn't give you an advantage unless you're a camping bandit. What other game would you play where the other side gets an unfair advantage like that? It's also a pain to micro-manage in that capacity and in general as it's hard to switch on the fly. I watch people play with it and they actually have worse spatial awareness and aiming because of the clunky game engine. It's pretty ridiculous to see people shimmy backwards around corners with their gun in the wall to see around it, that's the purpose of the Q and E keys.

Waypoints turn maps into GPSs. The smart menu cursor makes the rangefinder, rangefinding techniques, and to some extent camoflouge obsolete. The aiming cursor suggests it's the result of aiming down the sights, but then why can you also actually aim down the sights? It's hipfiring, it shouldn't be accurate. This is all information you shouldn't have.

...third-person does give one an advantage over another. They can look around walls/trees without exposing their body.

[Kain Phalanx 9]

Expert is an unpopular difficulty, obviously. I do agree with some of your points, and others I don't. It's super easy to switch from third/first person. Example: When I'm in third person I right click the mouse and I'm immediately in aim mode. First person only is as unrealistic as third person, but the non-expert servers allow a combination of both which I feel is effective. This game is more than a FPS, as I've mentioned countless times. Very few people (like yourself) want to be locked into first person 24/7.

That's my take on it, in a nutshell.

A scenario I see people wanting to switch to first person is when a zombie or player is really close. Aiming down the sights isn't optimal in that situation, and having another key to press while you're panicking and dealing with the other clunky controls makes them really sloppy.

It has nothing to do with me thinking this game is just a FPS. I want it to be the simulator that it is. Traditionally simulators have a third person option, but that's because they are also usually technical showcases. It makes sense in an aircraft simulator with good graphics to want to be able to see your shiny airplane, but in Arma as a human with the goofy animations? The two ideas are not joined at the hip.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

A scenario I see people wanting to switch to first person is when a zombie or player is really close. Aiming down the sights isn't optimal in that situation, and having another key to press while you're panicking and dealing with the other clunky controls makes them really sloppy.

It has nothing to do with me thinking this game is just a FPS. I want it to be the simulator that it is. Traditionally simulators have a third person option, but that's because they are also usually technical showcases. It makes sense in an aircraft simulator with good graphics to want to be able to see your shiny airplane, but in Arma as a human with the goofy animations? The two ideas are not joined at the hip.

I'm waiting for the moderator to merge all these threads because we're just talking about the same thing on another thread. Here is something I just posted over there.

The reason why I mention this is the PVP is not the primary focus of the game. There is more to the game than just shooting people so for all that extra content, it's not fun being stuck in first person.

The way I consider 3rd person and first person is this... 3rd person gives me that large FOV that is natural to our eyes, first person lets me focus my eyes on any given area within that FOV.

So essentially if you took the two views but removed the character from the center of the screen in third person you would see what I mean. In the "third person" view would duplicate your FOV more naturally, while the "first person" view would simultate your eyes being able to focus on a certain area within narrower FOV.

I don't need to turn my head to read something on this screen I merely move my eyes and focus on that part.

Though as mentioned being able to see your character enables you to get an idea of where your character physically is within their environment.

[Kain Phalanx 9]

I'm waiting for the moderator to merge all these threads because we're just talking about the same thing on another thread. Here is something I just posted over there.

The reason why I mention this is the PVP is not the primary focus of the game. There is more to the game than just shooting people so for all that extra content, it's not fun being stuck in first person.

The way I consider 3rd person and first person is this... 3rd person gives me that large FOV that is natural to our eyes, first person lets me focus my eyes on any given area within that FOV.

So essentially if you took the two views but removed the character from the center of the screen in third person you would see what I mean. In the "third person" view would duplicate your FOV more naturally, while the "first person" view would simultate your eyes being able to focus on a certain area within narrower FOV.

I don't need to turn my head to read something on this screen I merely move my eyes and focus on that part.

Though as mentioned being able to see your character enables you to get an idea of where your character physically is within their environment.

Your rationalization regarding focus is superfluous for two reasons. One, it is already implented in that you, the person, are applying focus to sections of your screen. Two, right-click zoom; seeing as we don't have zoom vision, I assume that's representative of focus.

I wouldn't mind enlarging first person FoV if that's the problem. I'm not sure what other content is enhanced by third person. I can look over and appreciate the scenery, or understand what few emotes I'm doing just fine in first person. I'm rarely ever confused about where I am, and I can always just look down. Third person gives you more information, like how well you're camoflaged with just a glance, but again, is that information you should really have?

Unlike the other thread, I'm not talking about taking away your ability to enjoy the game that way. I'm merely trying to convince you and other people to play on high difficulty servers more.

[wolfstriked 143]

Just a few tip for players that like 1st person view which makes it a little easier to see around corners and over obstacles when prone.Go prone in some grass and you can't see diddly but now point your weapon up in the air and you will see alot more than you thought you could.You can only go so high up with weapon before you reach the bottom of your LCD though you can then freelook downwards and see huge amount.But you are then overexposing yourself greatly so do everything with caution and stealth for best effect.

Same with getting close to a corner and then turning weapon to side will allow you to see further around corner than before.Whats great about this technique is that you only really expose your weapon so it mimics peeking around obstacles and makes 1st person more fun.The enemy also only sees a weapon peeking out so it mimics a player just peering around and obstacle pretty well.You can also get close to corner,then and then freelook slightly to side and see slightly more view but weapon turning is easier to do.

Another tip is change your controls so that Q and E are look left/right toggle which removes having to hold them the whole time and can then manipulate A W D easier.

Some tweaks by Rocket could further 1st person ease of use.

While I am all for the lowest amount of info on the HUD for immersion I do think a very small stationary crosshair serves a purpose though.Remove the dynamic crosshair from Arma2 and replace with a stationary,very small upwards pointing ^ . This ^ could also point down "v" to easily signal your crouched which can be hard to tell when in 1st person view.Have this ^ always onscreen,when walking,when running,when crouched etc as it allows a reference point for a little more feel when maneuvering.

To counter using the crosshair ^ to aim with add in some "aiming deadzone" as default for everyone.Just one click is enough to make it so that even if you place the ^ on an object in distance does not mean your bullets will hit it since weapon free floats around the ^.One click of aiming deadzone is suffice.

With these tips,some practice and the few tweaks I posted that could be done to further 1st person I think its a very immersive experience.

[walrus2517 27]

My filters in DayZ Commander are set to have 3rd Person on and CH off. These are the only servers I play on. 3rd person on for reasons others have said (including Rocket in his reasons for including it as an option to begin with). I know a lot of the pre-DayZ Arma crowd are used to playing in 1st so it is more natural to them but the only time I switch to 1st is when I'm hiding in a tree and the tree is blocking my 3rd person view (outside of right-click zooming to aim of course). Another obvious (and cheating) reason is if you have the shakes from a zed hit (and no painkillers) or are shivering (and no heatpacks) you don't have to deal with a constant screen shake. CH off because too often I'd mouse over someone I couldn't even see by accident and find their location. I've seen videos of people on CH servers just moving their mouse all over the screen to try and find a hidden player's location.

As to "why" people aren't playing on Expert servers it's the same reason I gave the guy wondering why people play on 24/7 daylight servers and all the night servers are empty. I know the hardcore crowd that fills the forum can't believe it but the majority of DayZ players are just trying to have a bit of fun playing a video game. For a lot of folks DayZ is already immensely more difficult than any other game they play, so why make it even harder if they don't have to?

[Kain Phalanx 9]

And towards that convincing, another argument:

As I've stated, third person provides an advantage to bandits, so naturally, there are less of them on expert servers. This actually makes higher difficulty servers easier in a way, especially combined with the lower population, ha. Of course I'm trying to change this, but it's true for the short term atleast.

Four people on the server, I park my Ural at NW AF, the other three people roll up in a bus and start checking out my ural, I shoot one with an M14 and then (!!)... we call a truce and I slowly drive away in my Ural that in retrospect they probably needed a more than me even though they had a helicopter the previous day, as I had plenty of other vehicles. More often though I'm the only one of the server. Point is, I'm bored people.

[Kain Phalanx 9]

As to "why" people aren't playing on Expert servers it's the same reason I gave the guy wondering why people play on 24/7 daylight servers and all the night servers are empty. I know the hardcore crowd that fills the forum can't believe it but the majority of DayZ players are just trying to have a bit of fun playing a video game. For a lot of folks DayZ is already immensely more difficult than any other game they play, so why make it even harder if they don't have to?

But it makes perfect sense. You play on daytime servers to get NVGs, then you switch to nighttime servers where everyone else...is doing the same thing!

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Point is, I'm bored people.

This is a given, and anytime someone mentions 1st Person vs 3rd person I already know why. I love the realism this game is trying to achieve. I don't need to "abuse" third person, I use it because it is something I am comfortable with. There is nothing immersive or enjoyable about running 9km through the woods, or operating a vehicle in game in first person.

What irks me more is like walrus said, people who play in 24/7 daylight, or people who whine about the need for indicators, etc.

I've played on expert servers, and it's just a pain in my ass to have to manipulate all the buttons just to get a horrible non-seamless feeling I would get if I was actually doing it. It's not bad on foot, but in vehicles it is simply atrocious. Oculus rift type peripherals are the only solution to a real first person experience...

What server are you playing on? Mine is down, I'll come join.

[walrus2517 27]

But it makes perfect sense. You play on daytime servers to get NVGs, then you switch to nighttime servers where everyone else...is doing the same thing!

Trust me. If I ever find those ever so elusive NVGs, I intend to play at night and enjoy the hell out of them. :)

[Kain Phalanx 9]

This is a given, and anytime someone mentions 1st Person vs 3rd person I already know why. I love the realism this game is trying to achieve. I don't need to "abuse" third person, I use it because it is something I am comfortable with. There is nothing immersive or enjoyable about running 9km through the woods, or operating a vehicle in game in first person.

What irks me more is like walrus said, people who play in 24/7 daylight, or people who whine about the need for indicators, etc.

I've played on expert servers, and it's just a pain in my ass to have to manipulate all the buttons just to get a horrible non-seamless feeling I would get if I was actually doing it. It's not bad on foot, but in vehicles it is simply atrocious. Oculus rift type peripherals are the only solution to a real first person experience...

What server are you playing on? Mine is down, I'll come join.

Third person driving seems like it would be really awkward in this game, but I haven't tried it yet. I've spent a great deal of time in vehicles in first person and I find it quite enjoyable aside from ATVs constantly shaking your screen and being deathtraps in general, and not being able to look back in the Ural. Saying that's not immersive is shocking though. Looking out a window on a sunny cruise, lit up dashes at night, the wheel turning while you look to the side during a turn, these seem better to me than watching your car from above and behind. Much like in real life, not being able to tell exactly how wide your car is isn't that big a problem. I'm not sure if you do this in third person, but I double-tap alt to lock freelook when I enter vehicles and tap it to recenter. It's not that big a hassle.

I play on US 3279 Las Vegas. No people and it updates beta faster than DayZ commander recognizes. I doubt I'll play today, but there's probably a hatchback at 035033 south of the road if you want to cruise around. It's not exactly mine but the camp seems abandoned. You'll need a jerry, there seems to be a bug where all fuel drains while vehicles are off.