Combat Logging (ALt+F4) solved...

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

I was exciting initially, one of the features that could drive me back in again (well i am already on unofficial mods.. but getting much bored), but then i've started to think the possible side issues:

1) loss of connection: it's remote, and i'm not scared of it, i think that i lost the connection only 1 time during a firefight.. i would have died by then, but if this can solve the infinite number of time that i would have killed a combat logger.. i could live with it;

2) bugs: i'm not sure if the system will be reliable enough. We know that arma does strange things (sometime you respawn shocked for no reason.. and shit like this)... so i'm not 100% convinced that i wouldn't "die" for no reason because the game tought i combat logged.. but i didn't tried it again, so let's wait for a final judgment.

3) The script kids: this is the real BAD BAD BAD BAD part.. until today i've managed to survive many times from a cheater because i had the opportunity of escaping.. now i can't anymore. And this is the only part that i'll probably not like at all. Let's hope...

[Spandex 5]

Having a nice stable internet connection would be nice.

I do not have a nice stable internet connection and so frequently get kicked for massive ping spikes. On average, I'd say that on any given 3 hour gaming session I'll probably get booted perhaps half a dozen times. If my guy was stood about getting his ass kicked every time this happened the game would be rendered unplayable for me.

[JamesButlin 108]

If you have a intermittent connection then you should expect to lose progress/lives in games like this, I don't think i've ever been disconnected (though my PC has crashed a few times due to bad ventilation) but honestly if it's going to stop those fuckers dissapearing when they get shot at it's a chance i'm willing to have.

Most of these bugs were because DayZ was created by one man, who didn't have as much time to put into the project as he could have had. With the community backing this, they'll start to iron out bugs like this (like they say they've fixed the unconscious respawning bugs).

You're missing the bit where sooner or later hackers are not going to be (as much of) a problem.

I think it's really good that they've opened up the updates to the community, we have to real smart people here to counter-balance the not so smart ones. :lol:

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

You're missing the bit where sooner or later hackers are not going to be (as much of) a problem.

This could be the worst assumption while making the (final) game: you will NEVER have a hacker/cheaters-free game, and counting on it (like: "ye let's do this, coz we won't have many cheaters") would end into a disaster! The correct attitude should be: we know there will be cheaters, so let think about a solution that wouldn't cause much trouble when those cheaters will be around.

[JamesButlin 108]

To quote the newest dev blog for the standalone (if you didn't see this one) - "we’re not just locking the application and data down any more, but we’re making the server the umpire."

Maybe there's no so much hope for the mod (at this present time) to be hacker free, but they are really trying to push everything away from the clients and onto the servers (after a huge amount of optimisation), this should (in an ideal world) prevent a lot of hacking and give server admins the tools to fend off such people and make it easier to spot/control.

I'm not saying they are naive, i'm saying sooner or later I have faith that they'll lock it down pretty well (otherwise they wouldn't think about implementing such a game changing system, surely).

[venthos 605]

This NOT a backhanded comment about the patch, as this is being sorted privately with R4Z0R49 (and I honestly hope they keep the code. Well, the optimized code once I'm done with it.).

The combat system was adopted from my mod of DayZ called DayZ Redux. A community member made a promo video for it, and they demonstrate the combat system in it.

Go to about 1:10 in the video to see it demonstrated, complete with blinky red gun icon to indicate combat (but I don't think the blinky gun icon is in the DayZ community patch). If you get whitelisted at DayZ Redux you can try the combat system out right now. Although, admittedly, I think the "kill on combat log" should only be present for private servers where admins can address people being combat logged from battleye kicks/etc and make them whole again. On a public hive with no DB access, logging the "combat log" only seems best. I hope they hold back on introducing my combat system until I rewrite it to be more optimized, because as it stands I believe it's contributing towards some red chain/desync. I know exactly how I'm going to rewrite it as it stands, anyway. Just need to allot the time to do it.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

To quote the newest dev blog for the standalone (if you didn't see this one) - "we’re not just locking the application and data down any more, but we’re making the server the umpire."

Maybe there's no so much hope for the mod (at this present time) to be hacker free, but they are really trying to push everything away from the clients and onto the servers (after a huge amount of optimisation), this should (in an ideal world) prevent a lot of hacking and give server admins the tools to fend off such people and make it easier to spot/control.

I'm not saying they are naive, i'm saying sooner or later I have faith that they'll lock it down pretty well (otherwise they wouldn't think about implementing such a game changing system, surely).

We don't have the technology yet to get rid of the cheaters... talking in general: ANYTHING that runs client side will be hacked, no matter what you do, there's no solution: and this is a fact.

In the future, when the games will run completely serverside (at the moment the services available are "poor" because of the bandwidth and ping) and the cloud gaming will be mature enough to hit the masses, then we will really have a concrete way of leaving 99.99% of possible cheats out.. but today it's only a dream.

[JamesButlin 108]

You are right, I just hope we'll get there sooner rather than later mate :)

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

I've just noticed that they didn't only punished the ALT+F4 .. they have disabled the "QUIT" during combat, so you have no escape: if a cheater starts to shot near to you, there's no chance you can survive:

1) If you kill the process you die;

2) If you stay there you will die anyway;

3) You don't have any option to search for a new server coz the QUIT is disabled.

Good luck to the non-cheaters then... i'm serious thinking to join the other side (ie: using a cheat only to escape to another cheater.. lol.. ye sounds ridiculous but it looks like this is the only solution).

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

I'm willing to suicide myself to avoid being griefed by a hacker if it means cowards can't alt-f4 anymore.

Don't get attached to your gear folks.

[Typheran 20]

*Teleport the server to you*

Start shooting them with your Mark-48.

It's a hackers wet dream.

[Typheran 20]

We don't have the technology yet to get rid of the cheaters... talking in general: ANYTHING that runs client side will be hacked, no matter what you do, there's no solution: and this is a fact.

In the future, when the games will run completely serverside (at the moment the services available are "poor" because of the bandwidth and ping) and the cloud gaming will be mature enough to hit the masses, then we will really have a concrete way of leaving 99.99% of possible cheats out.. but today it's only a dream.

I semi-agree with you.

Hackers will always exist, true.

But, the implementation of code to mitigate those abuses shouldn't be overlooked. Battle eye (and Rocket) have done a piss poor job in making that happen.

Before you scream and throw a little pickles at me let me explain. A majority of what a hacker does can be seen on the server logs and by certain programs. spawning in items, teleporting.. etc etc...

Why doesn't battle eye see this? Why is it up to a server admin to wade through these daily, banning people abusing this? Why isn't battle eye and rocket combining their resources, instead of working apart? The moment you spawn in your crate of goodies, battle eye should see the log entry, kick and ban that player and delete that crate. but it doesn't happen. Instead an admin has to look through the logs the next day (or whenever) and individually correct the problem. By then the hacker has abused the server and it's almost pointless.

Battle eye says that arma is too easy to hack. Rocket says that cheating is a battle eye problem. And.... nothing gets done.

Counter strike had this same problem in the early days. Wallhacking, aimbotting was rampant and people left that game. Smartly, they made it a priority and fixed the problems and today CS is still going strong. Not to say they still don't have hackers, but it's not at the game breaking level like Day-Z.

So in short... the problem can never be completely fixed... but it can be mitigated much, much better than this.

p.s. why don't then also ban IPs? this would also help. While it wouldn't stop everyone, it would help rid the mid to lower end scripters from returning again and again with new or stolen game keys.

[P_Griffin08 6]

I semi-agree with you.

Hackers will always exist, true.

But, the implementation of code to mitigate those abuses shouldn't be overlooked. Battle eye (and Rocket) have done a piss poor job in making that happen.

Before you scream and throw a little pickles at me let me explain. A majority of what a hacker does can be seen on the server logs and by certain programs. spawning in items, teleporting.. etc etc...

Why doesn't battle eye see this? Why is it up to a server admin to wade through these daily, banning people abusing this? Why isn't battle eye and rocket combining their resources, instead of working apart? The moment you spawn in your crate of goodies, battle eye should see the log entry, kick and ban that player and delete that crate. but it doesn't happen. Instead an admin has to look through the logs the next day (or whenever) and individually correct the problem. By then the hacker has abused the server and it's almost pointless.

Battle eye says that arma is too easy to hack. Rocket says that cheating is a battle eye problem. And.... nothing gets done.

Counter strike had this same problem in the early days. Wallhacking, aimbotting was rampant and people left that game. Smartly, they made it a priority and fixed the problems and today CS is still going strong. Not to say they still don't have hackers, but it's not at the game breaking level like Day-Z.

So in short... the problem can never be completely fixed... but it can be mitigated much, much better than this.

p.s. why don't then also ban IPs? this would also help. While it wouldn't stop everyone, it would help rid the mid to lower end scripters from returning again and again with new or stolen game keys.

If you knew about programming or a/c programs, you'd know battle eye does pretty good. But it is hard with how trusting arma is with the client.

BE does way more checks and goes more in to depth for finding hacks than VAC does. Obviously people will always find loop holes, and those smart people that do sell it to those who can't, hence where most of the script kiddies come from

And why they don't ban ip's, well ip's are now mostly dynamic from your ISP... so wht if some hacker gets banned and then later on you happen to get the old ip he had? well then you can't play and you'd make a thread here crying about it

[hawc 63]

I love how people are using the hacker excuse to justify combat logging. I'm waiting for someone to start saying he hacks to be safe from hackers.

If you don't have a stable internet connection how do you expect to play ONLINE games? Sorry but a stable broadband connection is one of the game requirements(if playing online).

[Gooober 34]

I alt f4 whenever im teleported. Now dayznubs have given hackers even more power... Good job putzs...

Fix the hacks instead of giving them more power........

[Spandex 5]

If you don't have a stable internet connection how do you expect to play ONLINE games?

As best we can. A decent internet connection simply isn't available where I live. Some nights it's unusable, others it's absolutely fine. I kinda like ONLINE games (and have done for many, many years) so would like to carry on playing them if it's okay by you.

Oh and for the record, another vote here for someone who has Alt-F4'd when a hacker attacked. Both my buddies reported being floated upwards over TS. I was looking at my desktop before they had finished their sentence. Coyote, DMR and GPS. I'd never been so geared.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

I love how people are using the hacker excuse to justify combat logging. I'm waiting for someone to start saying he hacks to be safe from hackers.

Hey mister "i know it".. i'm a damn bandit and i always play with a minimum of other 4 players, we don't do anything else than killing people around, and we rarely die .. and if it happens someone else is ready to kill the "killer" so we recover the stuff back. We're heavily affected by the combat loggers: every day 30% of our victmins manages to quit before we kill em... but we laugh and we look for the next poor survivor. What we know perfect is that ANY SINGLE DAY we meet a couple of script kids and most of the time we only manages to quit, removing this possibility we will kill that 30% of combat logger, but we will die every fucking day multiple times because of an idiot.

I hope you understand now why you're wrong.

[hawc 63]

As best we can. A decent internet connection simply isn't available where I live. Some nights it's unusable, others it's absolutely fine. I kinda like ONLINE games (and have done for many, many years) so would like to carry on playing them if it's okay by you.

Oh and for the record, another vote here for someone who has Alt-F4'd when a hacker attacked. Both my buddies reported being floated upwards over TS. I was looking at my desktop before they had finished their sentence. Coyote, DMR and GPS. I'd never been so geared.

What about hardware? Is it fair to reduce graphics quality just so some people with 10year old PCs can play? What about the map? would you play on 5x5 sqkm map?

@WalkerDown sorry mister "i know everything about hacking so standalone will have the same hacking problem" but as they say, don't get attached to your gear.

[klesh 2423]

I like how it uses the G17 for the combat gun icon. :thumbsup:

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

What about hardware? Is it fair to reduce graphics quality just so some people with 10year old PCs can play? What about the map? would you play on 5x5 sqkm map?

For this exact reason they have created the "graphic settings".

@WalkerDown sorry mister "i know everything about hacking so standalone will have the same hacking problem" but as they say, don't get attached to your gear.

You don't need to be a wizard to know that a any videogame (especially the FPS) will have cheaters aboard. Negate it is a matter of ignorance.

[xx_fr0st-w0lf_xx 53]

I love the idea, I love that they are doing something, but this has as many advantages as disadvantages.

What if Im playing with friends and were shooting zombies, does that count as combat? How long are you in combat after the first bullet is fired. What if hackers teleport everyone to one spot and start emptying magazines into them

And worst of all arma 2 is...........well arma 2. Were talking about the game where you break your legs when walk down the stairs and guns dissapear when they feel like leaving, what if it thinks we combat logged when we didn't.

I wouldn't mind trying it, see how it goes and we see what everyone thinks and base it off that, but the fact that you can't alt-f4 anymore is like a dream come true

[BreakdanceJesus 3]

I've been playing on private hives that have a script installed to hinder combat loggers. When logging out, it leaves the char in game for 30 seconds. It does not work 100% of the time, but its usually reliable to stop alt+f4. I have seen several times where a player, upon being shot at, immediately freezes like a statue. They logged out, but they are still there to be shot (and easily now that they logged.) This has been the best fix to the disconnect issue I have run into. Unreliable internet is like gaming on a 8 year old PC... you need to upgrade to properly enjoy what modern games have to offer.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

The combat system could also help identify self defense kills. Let's not overlook that.

edit: could also help prevent skin changes when a horde is chasing you.

Edited October 30, 2012 by SausageKingofChicago

[JamesButlin 108]

Right... So you really think hackers are going to be able to teleport once DayZ doesn't allow clients to execute scripts..?

[Gooober 34]

I wish they would have blocked the teleporting before installing the combat system... I'm more of a survivor then a combat player. I have died by a tractor being spawned on me, teleported from north of nw airfield to cherno to be killed, teleported from my base by zep to electro firestation to be killed and only legit death was due to experimenting with driving a vehicle into a pond :)

If someone has the drop on me and kiillz me.. Im cool with that... But to be teleported(dayz lack of fixing) and then to have their new combat system prevent me from aborting asap to avoid death.. My response to dayz team is. ..i.. W/ :)