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oh public hives how I miss you, the ghosting, loot cycling, the hacking. I really hope either they allow private hives or fix the mess that once was called public hives. kind of how dayz ruined arma 2?

Since I pretty much responded on this in a separate thread about modding the SA, I'm going to shamelessly paste my response from there out of pure laziness, so here it goes... I could care less, really, if the standalone is moddable, since most mods seem to dumb the game down to easy mode with far too much military loot and vehicles. The only mods I've enjoyed have been mods like Redux and DayZ+ which tended to introduce better features while keeping the game hardcore or making it even harder. Unfortunately, the masses want easy mode, so mods like Redux and + didn't do that well while dumbed down mods from Lingor and Namalsk to Epoch and Overwatch kept high populations. So I really don't care if the standalone is moddable if the mods are primarily just going to be designed by and for the easy mode crowd. But I DO want to see support for private hives. If it weren't for private hives, I wouldn't have played DayZ beyond the two months it took the public hive to drive me away from the game. I'll give the public hive a chance since I really have no choice on release of the SA, and because of the SA's new architecture. But I've heard nothing about measures taken to prevent server hopping and ghosting exploits in the standalone. Exploiters are only marginally better than script kiddies in my book, and the public hive is riddled with both. I'll take a good private community with good admins anyday. At least on the private hives I play on, there is no server hopping or ghosting, and glitching or combat logging earns a temp ban that progresses to perm ban on multiple offenses. And if a script kiddie kills you, you can post in the forum topic that appears after the script kiddie's ban, or contact an admin in the community's live chat or teamspeak to have your character rolled back to before the script kiddie killed you. No more losing hours, days, or even weeks of gameplay to scripts. ...and I'll add that I DO hope, since we will be forced to play on the public hive on release, that they have indeed added measures to address server hopping and ghosting by the release of the first public version of the SA. It will go a long way toward showing the improvement of the SA over the mod, and the merits of the public hive if they do. Otherwise there will be plenty of players like myself asking for private hive support. Personally, I'll most likely stick to the mod primarily until the SA does support private hives, or until issues like these are resolved on the public hive.

I could care less, really, if the standalone is moddable, since most mods seem to dumb the game down to easy mode with far too much military loot and vehicles. The only mods I've enjoyed have been mods like Redux and DayZ+ which tended to introduce better features while keeping the game hardcore or making it even harder. Unfortunately, the masses want easy mode, so mods like Redux and + didn't do that well while dumbed down mods from Lingor and Namalsk to Epoch and Overwatch kept high populations. So I really don't care if the standalone is moddable if the mods are primarily just going to be designed by and for the easy mode crowd. But I DO want to see support for private hives. If it weren't for private hives, I wouldn't have played DayZ beyond the two months it took the public hive to drive me away from the game. I'll give the public hive a chance since I really have no choice on release of the SA, and because of the SA's new architecture. But I've heard nothing about measures taken to prevent server hopping and ghosting exploits in the standalone. Exploiters are only marginally better than script kiddies in my book, and the public hive is riddled with both. I'll take a good private community with good admins anyday. At least on the private hives I play on, there is no server hopping or ghosting, and glitching or combat logging earns a temp ban that progresses to perm ban on multiple offenses. And if a script kiddie kills you, you can post in the forum topic that appears after the script kiddie's ban, or contact an admin in the community's live chat or teamspeak to have your character rolled back to before the script kiddie killed you. No more losing hours, days, or even weeks of gameplay to scripts.

I'm happy for you if that's been your experience with public servers. But my experience on the public hive had me hanging it up as far as DayZ is concerned. They are riddled with script kiddies. I got sick of putting in hours of game time just to lose it all to a script. And I got sick of the ghosting and server hopping of the public hive as well. I didn't play for a couple months. When the urge to play DayZ starting getting to me, I checked out the private hives. The ones I've played have been great. If it weren't for them, I wouldn't even be playing DayZ now. At least if a script kiddie runs his scripts on the private hive I play on, he gets banned and everyone he killed gets a prompt rollback on their survivors so that they don't lose everything to scripts. I also like that the private hives I play on have great communities, and servers are on separate databases so there is no server hopping or ghosting, and it allows for multiple survivors since they are separate. The point is, if you had a good experience on public hives and like to play there, then great, no one is stopping you. But just because you and others might prefer the public hive doesn't mean everyone else should have to play where you want them to. Let people play where they want. I and many others prefer the private hives. No one is forcing you to play private hives. I shouldn't be forced to play the public hive any longer than necessary.

I like pub hives, but fixing ghosting and stuff.. server hopping for loot needs to be fixed, honestly

What are you talking about? This is the current system which already prevents combat logging on many servers. It ensures that people don't simply escape from dire gameplay scenarios by exploiting the fact that they can just quit. You might as well argue for combat logging. The idea isn't to force your game to keep running. That is impossible. It would keep your character in game on the server for a while, as if you are AFK. Read my post again. The idea is not to permanently keep your character in game. Again, that's ridiculous and basically impossible. The idea is to prevent you from exploiting your way out of a PvP situation. Seriously, combat loggers are the scum of the earth and it is not a behavior that should be tolerated in this game. It leads to other exploits like ghosting and shit. \/ No.

Not really an excuse imo, you can see clearly before you connect if the server has good ping or not. Even good servers can end up beeing a lag orgy at a moments notice, just one script has to fail and you have it. It's up to the player to decide if he wants to connect or not, in most cases players have only a few servers they frequently visit so finding a good server is not impossible. Only server hoppers visit every server they can find to get loot. For players who have a permanent bad connection or f.e. live in Oceania it won't make much of a difference since their pings are always bad. The suggestion is like hitting two birds with one stone...it stops/slows down server hopping for loot ( rare stays rare ) and it stops ghosting and maybe even more? 15 minutes might be too much but you have to discourage misbehavious somehow. This....i was positively surprised by that one Sahrani server i visited that had this feature, i didn't check if others had it too because i usually stick where i start unless it's a bad server. I have to find out if it's a standard feature to all Sahrani servers or only for that particular server. Your avatar stayed connected for 40 seconds after disconnect in this case. Edit: So i played on another Sahrani server until a couple of minutes ago stealing my way through life without killing anyone except zeds :lol: Seems it was a server feature...you still have your 30 seconds logout button light up delay though.

IT ALREADY EXISTS. It really isn't that complicated. Also keeping a player's character in game a minute or two after a sudden disconnect could help as well, since we can assume that most ghosting is due to combat logging, but that doesn't take into account bases or fortifications, which may be a possibility in the Standalone. "Locks only keep out honest people." Um, no... That's not an excuse for a stop-gat which simply doesn't work. The system I proposed is not complicated in the least, considering I just explained it in a post half the size of your OP with no contingent arguments attached to it; and it would effectively combat off-server movement. If every server had this script, then ghosting would be impossible because it would be detected and repelled intelligently by each individual server. Nobody loses except the cheaters. That's what a lock is supposed to do. Keep out people who don't have the key. The "key" in this case is a simple location and time conditional. It doesn't matter if a player disconnects manually, or by ending the program. There is no way around it, because the defense is based on the log-in, not on the log-out.

Because that's COMPLICATED. There's an old saying 'locks only keep out honest people'. No matter what system you create, it's going to be able to be gamed. Someone will find a way around it. Locking someone out of a server for ten minutes after they voluntarily leave it 'criminalises' ghosting. This is the same basic premise as putting a lock on your door. Sure, someone with a crowbar can break your door the fuck down. Someone can pick the lock. But anything they do leaves clear evidence that they were willfully violating the rules of the game, or, in this analogy, 'breaking the law', meaning that the mods, IE: the police, have clear evidence of intent to break the rules/law and can throw them in jail/ban them. With this system not in place people can argue against a ban. They can make up bullshit excuses. But with this system in place, a mod can say 'so your game crashed, you logged into another server, moved a hundred metres, logged back in to the other server and killed the guy you were fighting? Right. *BAN*' This is a suggestion for a simple stopgap. Locks only keep out honest people.

Yes, I did read it. SO basically - "the system can be easily dodged through a keystroke that is actually faster than using the quit button - therefore better for ghosting, so it's up to moderators to solve the problem." Which is basically the same situation we have now. All I'm saying is that this wouldn't stop anyone from doing it, so what's the point? It's actually easier to suggest a context based log-in/log-out tracker that would show admins, or even automatically lock a player out for a few minutes, when someone ghosts. Think about it, you only need to know two pieces of info, which are tracked by the server already: your location, and your time of logout. So when a player returns to a specific server, the server could look at this information and ask a few qualifying questions to detect ghosting. Does the log-in location match the previous log out location, or is it a fresh spawn? If yes to either, then ghosting has not occurred. If no, then check the previous log-out time frame. If it is less than an hour, then the player has almost definitely ghosted, player should be locked out for 10 minutes or so. Admin dashboard would be alerted. If the last log out is more than 3 hours, then it's likely they just decided to play on another server for a while. Of course if the server has an active admin then they would also be privy to this information. With your proposed system, it seems like only legit players are the ones who are punished. Who is more likely to ghost, the person who hits alt-f4, or the person who disconnects manually? Even then, it may take a person more than ten minutes to effectively ghost their target, due to the open world of DayZ. Engagements often happen at 500+ yards. A ten minute hike in another server would actually negate your measures anyway.

Obviously, no one here has ever had to deal with the insane amount of server hoppers and garbage ghosting PRICKS that infested the main hive during its hey-day. Back before private hives, everyone was a server hopper. There was no point to going into the barracks because someone would magically appear out of the air behind you as you go in. I've had someone hop-in INSIDE the barracks I was in and just straight murder me with an AS50. I've had people server-hop to get behind me in places. I've seen server-hoppers dropping in and out of every single high-value spot for nearly every goddamn servers. Churchs, fire stations, the military spots. It's complete garbage. When I scope out a place on a private hive, I KNOW it's clear. I know I can go and loot the tents at Stary and watch the horizon for targets. I don't need to check each and every single goddamn tent each fucking second I'm there just in case some server-hopping little bitch decides to log in to my server. I hate the pussification of DayZ. I can't stand the '10,000 vehicles start with DMR' BULLSHIT that is infesting this game. But I also hate the main hive. I hate it with a passion. It breaks the immersion of the game completely and gives the game to the server-hoppers in its entirety. No military area is 'ripe for the picking' because it's already been server-hopped to death. No base is fortified because people can log in behind the walls. No area is safe, no matter how long you look at it because someone can just magically appear in it. Fuck, even the goddamn deer stands get server-hopped to death. It's just garbage. So yeah, fuck the 10,000 vehicle servers, and fuck the people who enjoy them. They've already killed the mod entirely. But private hives are the best thing to happen to this game. And I will never, ever choose a hive server over a private hive.

Pretty much agree with this entire thread. Would just like to input however, private hives were excellent before people began modding them. I would very much like to see a way in which private hives exist in SA, but are however unable to be modded in any way. (Another thing i disliked about public hive was the server hopping/ghosting which to be fair is one thing private hives were able to solve to a certain extent).

I remember AWA #1 and #2 used to be linked and there was a 15 minute delay after logging out of one before you could connect to the other. That worked pretty well against ghosting and server hopping.

So is a mod of the mod a success because it plays well and interests a player no matter the player population, or is success determined by filling the server ? The private hives saved the dayz mod ? I think so as the main connected hive presented its own challenges with the barracks hopping, combat ghosting no tent saving quirks taking 2nd to the hacking concerns. Now there are simply too many versions and options for the hackers to possibly keep up :} The mod that got me back into dayz after months off was epochs crafting and in game base building , and I suspect the arma sales that seem to stay in the steam top 10 are being driven by both the mods and the 2 mod installers that make them easy to install. If you think finding a vanilla dayz server is tough try looking for an arma2 server. I welcome all the ideas people keep coming up with and I thank the gaming gods for the diversity that keeps dayz alive.

Admins who constantly monitor their server map (admin map) to see where players are? That's really almost as bad as ghosting. You're using outside tools to get into a favored position so you can engage a player. Admins who use the admin map to steal from camps and also to find hidden camps is very abusive. You don't consider that admin abuse?

Reduce inventory space or separate it like secondary ammo and bandages, make food less of a constant need. That way having an ally allows the group to be better off than killing a dude and taking his beans. Also make all logging off have a long wait period and crashing or alt f4 causes your body to persist in game for a minute. A major tool of bandits is ghosting and combat logging to avoid both zombies and players. I think an alert if a player logs in within 30m would be a good thing, it doesn't tell you where they logged in, only that they are about to appear.

hi all, i am looking for someone who wants to team up with me. i am a mature guy playing DayZ for a year now and i like PvE servers. that does not exclude playerkills. for me there is just no point in pure PvP in DayZ but i like the thrill of other maybe hostile players around. it would be nice if our playstyles fit somehow. i like to play: -vanilla or "harder environment" e.g dayzero (no 500 vehicles, no extra barracks, no extra/changed loottables...) basically i want to experience "rocket's" concept of this game. -chernarus only (so far, i just didn't play any other maps and i like it that way but this may change at some point) -mostly on low populated private hive servers (like 5-10 players, no ghosting possible) -i am not very experienced in PvP, ok though at killing and loosing zeds i think -german or english language plz, EU servers preferred i can use any comunication program, or ingame chat. so if you think we should play together, leave a message here or add me on skype: carlosvandb i am looking forward to quick-loot the cities, explore the map and maybe find some camps, hide some ATVs, stashing Antibiotics, stalking ppl, find an arch-enemy and battle ;-)

No house building. It's more practical to capture an existing structure. What we need are some more basic construction tools like walls, maybe boarding up doors and windows, large tents, stuff like that. It's got to work, and be available. Since zeds can now be cleared out of areas and will no longer spawn in the presence of players, I think capturing structures, towns, ect. is actually going to become practical. Also all of the towns seem to be undergoing some modernization. So with evenly spread loot, people might be able to capture small structures or convenient in-between areas like green mountain and use them as trade posts. These things should always be persistent and always subject to attack from the outside. However, I think there also has to be some sort of anti-ghosting measure involved. Perhaps the creation of certain objects, (say, a tent that acts as your spawn point) would have a radius in which players (who are not the owner of said object) could not log in (on that server). If they did, they would be automatically displaced by a few hundred meters or so, well outside of the log in suppression zone. But of course they could still approach from the outside when you are not there.

Yes. Also forced teamwork structures. Also some kind of anti-ghosting measures for player made bases. That is absolutely necessary. It just cannot be possible for someone to spawn inside another player's camp. Otherwise the gameplay will be completely broken.

I'm glad you've started to have fun. As Kander said above, farming gear the way you described by server hopping or "ghosting" is frowned upon by many. It's doesn't really matter I just thought I'd let you know, many people feel that it defeats the whole point of the game, and some admins may ban for it it they see you doing it too much, although I think that's fairly rare. My tip for looting would be to just explore the map. That's half the fun of DayZ. I personally can't think of anything more boring than trying to loot the same building over and over, it just doesn't make sense to me. Be aware that in the Standalone version of the game measures will be put in place to eventually stop people server hopping so it may be a habit you want to break now rather than later. Also, logging out during combat is probably one of the worst things you can do in terms of bad sportsmanship. Many admins will ban you straight away if you do that. I know you're still learning and probably aren't at that point yet but i just thought I'd let you know, if someone starts shooting at you then you either have to fight or run, forget about logging out. Have fun dude, sounds like you're getting the hang of it.

50/50 chance that it was either what they are all saying (ghosting, logging, whatever), or like you are afraid of: shenanigans. I have seen invisible players get right behind and shoot. Doesn't matter how few players are on the server. You'll never know what it actually was so forget it and respawn.

Just yesterday CQF played with one of our allied groups and we eliminated 4 hostile threats, but had one casualty. If you are new to the game, we will train you. If you are a vet, we will use you properly. We are currently playing DayZ Vanilla and DayZRP. The operation in a little bit more detail: CQF eliminated all the contacts, secured a heli and bus for allied group, and had a casualty most likely because of ghosting. We were watching the ATC in NEA when someone literally came out of no where and started shooting from the ATC. It seemed that the player who was shooting was someone CQF had previously engaged but alt F4'd.

I think I just killed you at the NEA. There was a chopper in the mix, and I can say without a doubt that you are duping. We killed you, colton, NBS gaming, jimmy, and one bandit alt F4'd. I kid you not, I killed all 4 of you guys. You did get Lyv. But I have no idea how you even got on that ACT without ghosting in, whoever it was. We had eyes all over NEA.

You were likely killed by a ghosting player, someone logging into different servers near high-value loot to minimize travel time/detection. While the ghosting player is not very sporting, you should think twice about logging out in the Firehall next time. (Or any building really.)

Yeah, I know. You played Dayz from its pre-historic times (Jan-Jul 2012), when the public hive was the rule, server-hopping was there, but you didn´t really mind, or pretended you didn´t, because you liked the game, and, after all, it was a mod and the modder had no control about all things. So, if you were pro-realism, and fairness, you considered it to be a minor annoyance, and occasionally hopped to avoid a night, even though you suspected that some people might be exploiting the system. But you liked the game, so whatever. Nowadays, people who play on private hives say they are there for the hacking avoidance, but i suspect if you ask them about that old annoyance they will say they either don´t miss it, or don´t even know what it is. But let´s be completely honest about it. Server-hopping sucks. And stinks. Like crap. So, in order to make the SA as much of a good game as it is expected, and can be, I think it may be now the time to frontally and strongly address this question, in the hopes that it can reach some very busy minds in eastern Europe, before it´s too late. You may think this is trivial, but, as I am in the mood of burying something tonight, I will list some reasons, or factors that should be enough to call attention to this problem and definitely send server-hopping to the grave. 1- Realism. If you consider the vigour, and rigour, with which Rocket argued against the presence of street lights in the game, going even into technical depths (and I think he is right, although in-game I many times thought the opposite), with all that argumentation being made for the sake of realism, you would by logic suppose that this factor alone would be alone to make server-hopping, in his mind, as dead as Steve Jobs by now. But, as we don´t know about the intimacy of his thoughts, you never know. Right now, the tendency might be the opposite, and that, besides the mentioned contradiction, is very worrying. So, if it seems like pressure, I do it respectfully. But please no server-hopping on SA. It is enough having to deal with one extraordinary thing in the alternate reality of the game, i.e., the presence of zombies. So, the occurrence of a second extraordinary thing in the same game world, i.e., the ability to travel between alternate dimensions and possible worlds, would be too much, besides utterly and ridiculously unrealistic. 2- Farming. On this factor, the first thing I remember is of when I first noticed, for real, how retarded Warz is. It was when I saw on twitch that farming is common practice there. So, just to state it, you go to NWAF (suppose it was Dayz), and hop multiple times on empty servers, facing no danger at all (they are empty, and for a PvPer, having only the E part of danger is almost like zero danger), waiting for good guns... you get the idea. As much of retarded the practice is, I know people feel compelled to do this in Warz because everybody does the same. And that´s one of the main weak points of Warz (among the other 3 billion). Those gold-digging amateurs copied a feature that was, in reality, a by-product of mod implementation and not a creation out of game-design ingenuity. And that was, in fact, a monolithically retarded decision from the Warz makers. (Was that even a decision?) 3- Avoiding nights. This factor, to me is very important and should have a topic of its own. But, to keep things short, think about it. Nobody sleeps 12 hours a day. And if you were in a zombie apocalypse, and you did, you would became zombie lunch very soon. So, you would compulsorily have to, like in real life, have a day life as well as a night life. And I am not talking about the kind the involves alcohol, loud music, and boobs. So, there should be a mechanism that made players actually play the nights as well as the days (not necessarily as much). Even if they played at all times at the same time on the same server, for the same length of real-world time. And server-hopping is a mechanism that has the opposite effect. 4-Ghosting. As the name suggests, this is as supernatural as the aforementioned dimension-travelling, but doesn't scare even a 5-year old. It´s teleport, and not of the hacker type. It´s legal. There is problem in a city? Ghost trough it. Found a sniper? Ghost to behind his back then divide his brain with a hatchet. Just like the nights, you can avoid anything by hopping around. So, like I said, it sucks. It would be a big crater on the design of an in other aspects very good game. So, as you must have noticed this text is not a one-liner, and some people may be avoiding it because to spend so much time on a text they prefer to read the Game of Thrones series twice. But if you are still here, you can add something to this thread, and who knows if it gets visible it could even influence some of those busy minds in Czech Republic. The problem is urgent and worrying, and could be solved by now, or not. As I said, you never know. So, thoughts, comments, additions, disagreements? Regards, Caesar (Werz, Monk)