Is DayZ a "zombie survival" game or a deatchmatch game in a zombie survival setting? (Serious question)

[-AoXo- 24]

My issue with DayZ from very early on is that you quickly - extremely quickly - realise that survival in DayZ is not difficult. In fact, surviving isn't really an issue. "What's the goal of DayZ" - to survive. Well, it's either to survive or "to build a helicopter (and get NVG then go on the forums telling everyone else you have them)" - so I'm not really sure what the focus of the game is. All I know is that survival isn't the main goal - not unless you consider Quake a survival game too (but I'll get to this in a bit).

See, DayZ for me has never been about survival. I've been able to make character and survive easily. Heading off into the safety of the woods isn't my problem. Me "playing the game wrong" isn't the problem. The reason the woods isn't the problem is because it has to be assumed that *somewhere* is safe. And since we can't "make" safe areas (barricading homes, clearing towns, etc) the wilderness has become this default safe zone, mostly free of zombies - who, ironically, were merely an annoying side effect of the setting (and any setting or back drop has its drawbacks). Saturating the game world with enemies is artifical difficulty. Giving the player "overwhelming" hurdles doesn't make the game more difficult - it makes it cheap.

And how could I possibly be playing the game wrong? It's an open world zombisurciivnhabbadabbadoo game so I am allowed to do what I want (I hope this comment doesn't bite me in the ass) - therefore no matter what I do it can't be considered wrong. However - to reiterate the point of this thread - I can survive easily; which means either the game is easy, or I'm playing on easy mode. Which brings up the question: what makes this game difficult?

It's certainly not the lack of supplies. From Day 1 I've been disappointed with the way items spawn. That's a huge issue that needs overhauling. It;s too much for me to comment on my own. But it's one of the issues - everything is plentiful - which partly makes it so annoying that we have people killing without the intention of stealing items. At least in that case I could be happy to say "I would do the same if I was starving". But I am never starving, and neither is the guy playing as a "bandit" (murderer - a bandit would actually steal something).

Now, I could chalk it up to Arma, or to "Alpha" or something like that - but it's been reiterated time and time again that "the point" of DayZ, that the "real threat" of DayZ is other players. So, zombies aren't a threat, and surviving isn't a threat. It's just other players, right? Is that what I'm to understand? And, if this is a correct assumption then doesn't that mean that DayZ is essentially just a drawn out (sometimes very drawn out) deathmatch? I don't want to be TOO cynical is saying this next bit - but if I describe a game in which you spawn, look for weapons, and kill other players you would probbaly think I was talking about some arena style shooter. In older shooters the map itself may have had lava pits or some other environmental danger so that it wasn't just "other players" you had to look out for. It seems as if the laval pit has been replaced with zombies, and rocket jumping replaced with "survival elements".

But again, I don't want to be too cynical with that point, because eventually any game is going to come down to "spawn, look for weapons (items), and kill other players" - but ... wait. Why don't we change that up? From my stand point (and I'm sure many disagree) weapons aren't the issue, but for me having a saturation of weapons causing the game to be reduced to the elements of an arena style death match. Why don't we make the environment the focus, and weapons incidental? A true survival game would reduce the goals of survival to that of... well, the Sims (which may or may not be your cup of tea depending on your tastes).

I understand it's in a post-soviet era state, but I find the whole pretense of "zombie survival" to be absolutly moot. These don't seem like "alpha" issues, or particularly to be "Arma" issues. I don't feel that if I "have patience and faith in Rocket or the Arma 2.5 or 3 engine (whatever he's using)" that these underlying issues will be fixed. It seems quite clear that weapon spawn rates could be lowered drastically, that food and other essential items could be rarer. I'm not sure if it's just me and my personal taste or not. Maybe this is "clearly what people want" - but I just don't see the "survival" aspect interplaying with the "zombie" aspect. I don't see my survival being tied to anything but my gun and how I use it against other players.

But whatever. I haven't even played the game for several months now, so there's no point in telling me to stop playing. I'm merely trying to understand what the community likes about this game, what is inherent to DayZ and what is incidental.

[Inception. 9443]

Rocket stated that when DayZ becomes makes the transition from 'mod' to an actual game, things will start to be a whole lot harder.

[RogueOne 112]

Yes to everything.

[-AoXo- 24]

Rocket stated that when DayZ becomes makes the transition from 'mod' to an actual game, things will start to be a whole lot harder.

Difficulty doesn't mean anything though. Making zombies 1-hit-insta nuke the world and ban your character for 80 years is a pretty challenging game. Will the focus of the game turn to "zombie survival" or will it still be "zombies and everything else is harder, but you still have to worry about everyone deathmatching"? I find it ironic everyone here bitches about Call of Duty, but DayZ has been reduced to kill-on-sight tactics, no matter the context. It's been a shallow experience for me.

Yes to everything.

Thanks for being useless.

[T.G. 48]

I feel lately that if I could fathom the point of wire fencing kits beyond trolling others this game would make more sense, beyond trolling others.

[Inception. 9443]

Difficulty doesn't mean anything though. Making zombies 1-hit-insta nuke the world and ban your character for 80 years is a pretty challenging game. Will the focus of the game turn to "zombie survival" or will it still be "zombies and everything else is harder, but you still have to worry about everyone deathmatching"? I find it ironic everyone here bitches about Call of Duty, but DayZ has been reduced to kill-on-sight tactics, no matter the context. It's been a shallow experience for me.

The damage that the infected inflict will be slightly changed to suit things, but it's more about their movement and their capabilities.

If my memory serves me correctly, the whole loot table will be adjusted, the whole damage system will be adjusted, the whole injury system will be completely redone, and the PvE element of the game will be amplified. Etc.

[terex 322]

I think DayZ as a "PvP survival game with zombies in it to track players and stuff" game. It's whatever the player makes of it..

Edited October 5, 2012 by terrex

[The Aquatic Land Walrus 565]

No. It isnt a survival game. It's a pony simulator.

[merrfack 90]

It is what you make of it

[CombatWombat (DayZ) 63]

It is what you make of it

This.

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

I see it as an opportunity to destroy everything and make it to the top of the food chain

[Catfishbuffalo 0]

I do hate the fact that everything is shoot on sight now. This mod has wonderful capabilities and I would hate to see them go to waste. PvP is a big part of this game, however it shouldnt be the only part of this game. Maybe there should be a max number of kills for a certain time, or something...I'm not honestly sure.

[-AoXo- 24]

I think DayZ as a "PvP survival game with zombies in it to track players and stuff" game. It's whatever the player makes of it..

It seems the major focus is PvP - even if I take into consideration the major overhauls that Inception mentioned the focus on PvP is TOO strong to make any other aspects of any real importance. Starvation, broken limbs, hunting, catching a cold, or disease from human waste, splints, broken ribs, if all of that serves to fuel the PvP battles that goes on then it basically reduces DayZ to something else other than a zombie survival game.

I guess I'm just having great difficulty trying to understand why everything I do is fueling a part of the game I'm not interested in - negating the "what you want it to be" comments.

I do hate the fact that everything is shoot on sight now. This mod has wonderful capabilities and I would hate to see them go to waste. PvP is a big part of this game, however it shouldnt be the only part of this game. Maybe there should be a max number of kills for a certain time, or something...I'm not honestly sure.

The thing I'm finding is it lacks the traditional zombie drama - if you've played or seen The Walking Dead, or any other zombie movie, you'll know what I mean. It's that singular or group effort to "make do" to survive, not only against the undead, but against each other. DayZ takes a sort of L4D approach and goes "fuck all that - go kill each other". i.e. there's nothing inherently in place to encourage team work or less destructive (dare I say, creative and good-willed) tendendies. The "good samaritan" is a fabled character in DayZ - and that's simply not what would happen. Everyone is freaking out with guns because they want instant gratification - scratch that; they want GRATIFICATION. They just want to go in and kill. I've not come across individuals or groups in the last few months (before I stopped playing) who were welcoming or intrested in team play. I've helped strangers only to be shot in the back. Warned groups and individuals of my presense and aid I can give them only to be murdered.

Why such the focus on PvP from all groups of players?

Edited October 5, 2012 by -AoXo-

[superftlol 72]

I'm struggling to follow the OP 100% - They seem to dislike the PVP element, and suggest making the game harder to find loot, surely this would only fuel the need to pvp to survive ?

[Hello moto 70]

I really don't know mate. I agree completely. I wonder who would still play if zombiez were taken out.

Which leads me to another thing. Rocket has said that he wants no AI and everything that happens is player driven. If he wants that that then why are there AI in the game? Also that comment just screams PvP. Maybe rocket wants to dip his feet into the COD style market and is starting at a different angle...

[Hello moto 70]

I'm struggling to follow the OP 100% - They seem to dislike the PVP element, and suggest making the game harder to find loot, surely this would only fuel the need to pvp to survive ?

He is saying, in part that PvP to survive is great, but people only kill for '1337 sk1ll k1lls'

[LifeHackz (DayZ) 17]

I am one of the few that doesn't shoot on sight, and I've been playing for a few months now.

[Heiduk 265]

Good question, Rocket has certainly said repeatedly that it is about survival but as you point out some of his design decisions certainly have seemed to favor deathmatch and even griefing. I've also realized that most of the fun I've had with the survival aspects has been as much from self-imposed restrictions as from the game's mechanics.

I'm hoping that standalone will make a definitive move towards survival. I suspect how he decides to handle the hygiene aspects will say a lot about what this game is intended to become. Is this a survival game with PvP or a post-apocalyptic griefing simulator for douchebags (Now with human shit!!!).

[-AoXo- 24]

He is saying, in part that PvP to survive is great, but people only kill for '1337 sk1ll k1lls'

Yes and no: to both of you. The confusion is my fault.

What I was trying to say was that PvP should be an almost end-game thing and in fact, PvP shouldn't even be about combat - and there should be a way to somehow control how and when this happens or the effects of it. If players have no goal they seek to disrupt others. We know this, we've seen the way DayZ has become "without rules" - the real world is governed by rules. Societies form. Groups form. Human morality plays a massive part - even in the animal kingdom animals don't go around NEEDLESSLY murdering other animals. If not for food now, food later, defense of territories, etc. Animals don't just go around killing. Humans don't either. You think "laws" and "prison" is what holds back out murderous impulses? No, it's that we don't have them to begin with unless we're deranged psychopaths. How do we get this into a video game?

I don't know. I don't pretend to know. I think sitting down for a month and looking at a realistic approach to what people would do in these situations certainly would help. One of the main things in a real life scenario would be conscience and inhibition. I've never been in a disaster situation so I don't know what I would do, but I don't think my instinct in a plane crash, or car accident is "lets go knife everyone and steal their jewelery" - certainly many people might, but most people wouldn't. In times of disaster people almost always band together to help each other. The problem with this line of thinking is that a video game contains none of these inhibitons and the sanctity of life does not exist.

My only conclusion at this point is that if players are going to play this way and (more than likely) mruin the "zombie survival" setting for others then there's not a lot we can do if we don't want to impose rules and punishment for players. To me, it seems like an idea that's just not going to work. Even with considerable updates to the zombie survival mechanics, we've seen that people are more interested in killing each other.

[sostronk 334]

People are making a very big assumption here right across the forums. Increasing game difficulty is not going to decrease banditry/deathmatch etc. As a bandit, if anything, making the game more difficult is only going to make me all the more keen to kill players. Increasing game difficulty is going to increase deathmatch, because now its not just an option, but the only option. Kill to survive or die.

[Fynmar 6]

It's an zombie survival game. The zombies have to survive a post apocalyptic hell, full of retarded human which kill everything in sight.

You may not know about, but the zombies are actually played by Chinese people and they think that you are the AI.

[Maca (DayZ) 769]

I can understand where the OP is coming from, as he stated he hasn't played in a few months. I myself started sometime in April and yes there was pvp back then (Bandits had skill and you didn't want to cross their path). But the thing was back then you had a chance to interact with your fellow survivors, this KOS mentality has taken the concept of an open world Apocalpse and forgot the most important aspects of a more complex situation surviving. Now alot will say "If i shoot first i survive" true, but on the other hand you are also denying yourself what this experiment was all about.....! Getting immersed into your character that if you died from a (killer door or just the good old bandit) that it resonated with you.

Now to be honest who gives a f#ck about their character nowadays and thats whats been lost.

The why i see it we've all played the top AAA games running,jumping over things (not breaking a leg) weilding a gun like its the f#cking "armageddon".

Edited October 5, 2012 by Maca

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

Deathmatch. There's simply currently not enough factors to make it "zombie survival"

[Danielowski 0]

One word will solve this problem, punishment.

Punishment for killing on sight, many games use the flag system, if you hit or shoot someone your name color changes and you can be killed without punishment.

What kind of punishment? That's Rocket job.

[_headripper_ 8]

There isnt any reward to let ppl live.

On the other hand.. if you pop a fully geared player you got the hole package. (nice mainweapon, backpack, tools, maybe a nice sniper etc)