A view on this whole PvP fiasco

[Cmdr Snipes 1]

I see many people arguing about this whole PvP business. As a fellow player with experience in being the "Lone Wolf", a squad leader (3-5 squad mates in tow), and a group leader (10-20 following directions), as well as being a team mate under the command of another, both PvP and PvE are both staples of the mod as a whole. I can *understand* the gripes of those in the anti-PvP camp, but as it adds a whole new dimension to the mod itself, it can NOT be removed without detracting one of the largest contributing factors of Day Z. This is what I'd like to elaborate on in this thread.

Many of those who have picked up ARMA 2 have been under the assumption that this is a simple zombie-apocalypse mod. This could not be farther from the truth. ARMA 2 was, is, and always has been a military simulator constructed in the mindset of including even the smallest of details that are compatible with the engine itself. It is a game whose playerbase has been accustomed to intricate detail, coordination, teamplay, and an incredibly steep penalty for errors and incompetence and high rewards for successes. This isn't to be taken as an insult to those who want PvP gone, because these points are applicable to both camps; that is to say, those who PvP are under the same stresses as those who do not. Simply put, ARMA 2 is not a game for everyone, and Day Z much more so. It is a game where survival, awareness, coordination, and trust are paramount next to weapons and gear. A small tightly-knit group with Makarov's and Winchester's is a far more dangerous and effective weapon than a larger, more uncoordinated group who has mid to high-tier gear (and please do not argue about the semantics of this point, as they are pretty much moot to the point being made).

Now, there are arguments as to the advantages that many PvPer's have (such as pressing alt+F4 in the middle of a fight to save themselves, being on Teamspeak in a group or groups, et cetera ad infinitum), and I will admit that these *are* valid points. Many of these stem from the infrastructure that the game is played on, or simply things that can't be avoided without the developers pulling all-nighters to code in systems that can prevent these problems (and might I say, I have faith that in the future such systems will be put in and refined until a balance has been made). Even taking these problems into account, removing the biggest and most in-depth aspect of the game (the human condition and emergence of choices/actions into in-game situations) will have incredibly devastating results on the playerbase as a whole. This game gained its' popularity simply because of how a single action can shape the environment of the map. The players who enjoy this type of gameplay are a very small niche of the millions in the gaming community as a whole. It can and will be argued that removing certain aspects of the game to make it more palatable for the masses is a good thing, however that entire line of thinking will water down the experience that can not be found anywhere else in the gaming world. It would be as if someone had stolen the Mona Lisa and made her clothes more modern, has put make-up on her, and had much more "attitude." The diamond-in-the-rough would be removed from the barren and rocky place it exists in, then cut, polished, and added into a pile of diamonds the looked very similar to itself, when it is a treasure in it's own place.

All of this isn't to say a handful of PvE-only servers shouldn't exist, as they could bring a whole new idea to the table. Imagine whole cities that people could build out of Barbed Wire, sandbags, and a little know-how. Whole towns being constructed, broken down, moved, or over-run by zombies on a whim. To me it sounds like a pretty neat idea, even though it wouldn't suit my tastes.

But the complete removal of PvP itself? Never.

Never in a million years.

DayZ dev's, you've done a wonderful job in creating this mod for us. I haven't been so engrossed into a video game in such a long while that I can't even remember what the last game I played was that made me feel like part of the world in which I played. I couldn't imagine DayZ without the many, many deaths I've received, as well as the act of committing said crimes. You all are doing superb, and I know quite a few people who have the same thoughts. Thank you so damned much for making this.

[jason.jblackman@gmail.com 3]

If PvE servers were made, the player data would have to only apply to that server, and not carry over to all servers.

[aopfin87 7]

If there ever were PVE servers their character database should be separate from PVP servers so people couldn't stock up on best stuff on PVE server and then jump to PVP server to hunt others.

I think most of the anti-PVP folks had no idea what they were about to get into when they got ArmA2 to play this mod. I doubt they realized half the playerbase is ArmA2 veterans who have the patience to stalk other players for hours leading to frustrating deaths to those not familiar with ArmA2 gameplay.

The devs could name PVE as "carebear" mode and PVP as "hardcore" to discourage people with any self-respect joining PVE servers.

[Limeni 7]

there is like million of threads just like this one, all of them are filled with walls of text, it's fascinating...

[Matty (DayZ) 0]

PVP is what makes this game.

The zombies are there for your annoyance, this is survival of the fittest.

The world has ended, there are zombies everywhere, and people looking to take your 8 Makarov clips and your 2 cans of beans.

If you don't like it leave, because there's always going to be a sniper outside of Chernogorsk.

[Limeni 7]

PVP is what makes this game.

The zombies are there for your annoyance' date=' this is survival of the fittest.

The world has ended, there are zombies everywhere, and people looking to take your 8 Makarov clips and your 2 cans of beans.

If you don't like it leave, because there's always going to be a sniper outside of Chernogorsk.

[/quote']

yeah, laying down near some city and sniping random loners from a mile away with no reason is so badass... murdering people is dayz on easy mode.

[jason.jblackman@gmail.com 3]

PVP is what makes this game.

The zombies are there for your annoyance' date=' this is survival of the fittest.

The world has ended, there are zombies everywhere, and people looking to take your 8 Makarov clips and your 2 cans of beans.

If you don't like it leave, because there's always going to be a sniper outside of Chernogorsk.

[/quote']

Pretty much this. People play this expecting it to be a zombie game. It is not, it is about surviving and fighting for resources and land.

[Nate (DayZ) 7]

If all some people are going to do is gripe and complain about PVP on the forums and in game; All I can say is either get over it and understand that PVP isn't going anywhere, or leave the community. Because quite frankly, I'm tired of all these care-bears playing this game thinking they are going to survive forever with their gear when they make stupid decisions to begin with. Learn to play and adapt.

[Freyar 8]

PVP is what makes this game.

The zombies are there for your annoyance' date=' this is survival of the fittest.

The world has ended, there are zombies everywhere, and people looking to take your 8 Makarov clips and your 2 cans of beans.

If you don't like it leave, because there's always going to be a sniper outside of Chernogorsk.

[/quote']

yeah, laying down near some city and sniping random loners from a mile away with no reason is so badass... murdering people is dayz on easy mode.

Well, I think a lot of people are just keeping themselves out in the open which is a huge mistake. Sneaking into a city by crawling into one is actually pretty cool as it takes patience and paying attention to what is around you beyond 100m. Even then, I like to "hunt" people up close anyway.

[tiri 21]

A good idea would be a PvE servers but with much, much harder difficulty settings:

- hordes, roaming from one city to another, made of at least a hundred zombies.

- less items/ammo/weapons, forcing players to help each other to get their gear working.

- harder to kill zombies: only a headshot kill them, other wounds only incapacitate them (shot in the leg -> must crawl, shot in the torso -> can only walk).

That's just a few exemple, but the principle is here: replacing the difficulty created from PKs by a more difficult environnment. That way, people can't kill each other, but will be dead really fast without searching for help.

Remember: even though were on the internet, people have different tastes. Some enjoy killing each other, some like being versus the computer. Just deal with it and don't whine, on both sides.

[Limeni 7]

A good idea would be a PvE servers but with much' date=' much harder difficulty settings:

- hordes, roaming from one city to another, made of at least a hundred zombies.

- less items/ammo/weapons, forcing players to help each other to get their gear working.

- harder to kill zombies: only a headshot kill them, other wounds only incapacitate them (shot in the leg -> must crawl, shot in the torso -> can only walk).

That's just a few exemple, but the principle is here: replacing the difficulty created from PKs by a more difficult environnment. That way, people can't kill each other, but will be dead really fast without searching for help.

Remember: even though were on the internet, people have different tastes. Some enjoy killing each other, some like being versus the computer. Just deal with it and don't whine, on both sides.

[/quote']

well said sir :)

[dallas 5195]

I never played much PvP in ArmA or OFP, I'm a pure-blood coop player and I really don't enjoy PvP deathmatches or CTF.

However...

This is something else. If you remove the PvP aspect of DayZ, the game will turn into a giant boring stockpiling experience. If you don't like PvP in DayZ, you can avoid it fairly easy. Infact avoiding PvP(bandits) becomes the game.

The human opponent is a huge factor in the zombie genere, other survivors and marauding bandits is a luring threat in any zombie movie and should be in this game too. In the animal kingdom the predators stalk the watering hole, the easiest locations to feed, also attrachts the most prey. Wise survivors will have to have approach any potential goldmine of loot, as a potential death trap. The bigger the reward, the bigger risk.

-If you want the best gear, you must fight other players for it.

-If you want to survive with your humanity intact, you must suffer the remote and barren hunting grounds.

[Limeni 7]

I never played much PvP in ArmA or OFP' date=' I'm a pure-blood coop player and I really don't enjoy PvP deathmatches or CTF.

However...

This is something else. If you remove the PvP aspect of DayZ, the game will turn into a giant boring stockpiling experience. If you don't like PvP in DayZ, you can avoid it fairly easy. Infact you can avoiding PvP(bandits) becomes the game.

The human opponent is a huge factor in the zombie genere, other survivors and marauding bandits is a luring threat in any zombie movie and should be in this game too. In the animal kingdom the predators stalk the watering hole, the easiest locations to feed, also attrachts the most prey. Wise survivors will have to have approach any potential goldmine of loot, as a potential death trap. The bigger the reward, the bigger risk.

-If you want the best gear, you must fight other players for it.

-If you want to survive with your humanity intact, you must suffer the remote and barren hunting grounds.

[/quote']

You have some good points there, however there are players who sit in rooms or at the outskirts of the city for hours just so they could kill anyone they see without any attention on looting them, they dont do that to survive they do it just for the lolz, ruining the game in the process.

PvP needs some changes and if that doesnt happen many players will just stop playing. There is over a 1000 players active right now, each with his own taste and opinion, attacking every player that doesnt agree with you is pointless, stupid and contra productive. We need some balance in the gamplay.

[aopfin87 7]

You have some good points there' date=' however[b'] there are players who sit in rooms or at the outskirts of the city for hours just so they could kill anyone they see without any attention on looting them, they dont do that to survive they do it just for the lolz, ruining the game in the process.

PvP needs some changes and if that doesnt happen many players will just stop playing. There is over a 1000 players active right now, each with his own taste and opinion, attacking every player that doesnt agree with you is pointless, stupid and contra productive. We need some balance in the gamplay.

They are part of the game and part of the experience. If you want the game to be super easy you are playing wrong game.

On the latter part I'd say good riddance. People are currently enjoying the game enormously with all servers being constantly full. Why water down everyones experience when couple a carebears like you can't cope with the difficulty and dangerous players?

[Limeni 7]

You have some good points there' date=' however[b'] there are players who sit in rooms or at the outskirts of the city for hours just so they could kill anyone they see without any attention on looting them, they dont do that to survive they do it just for the lolz, ruining the game in the process.

PvP needs some changes and if that doesnt happen many players will just stop playing. There is over a 1000 players active right now, each with his own taste and opinion, attacking every player that doesnt agree with you is pointless, stupid and contra productive. We need some balance in the gamplay.

They are part of the game and part of the experience. If you want the game to be super easy you are playing wrong game.

On the latter part I'd say good riddance. People are currently enjoying the game enormously with all servers being constantly full. Why water down everyones experience when couple a carebears like you can't cope with the difficulty and dangerous players?

You got everyithing backwards.

Camping on other players just for the lolz IS the easy mode. You really dont have to do anything else, all those loners do it for you. And all that herpderp, carebears, ponies shiting rainbows talk is getting old.

[aopfin87 7]

You got everyithing backwards.

Camping on other players just for the lolz IS the easy mode. You really dont have to do anything else' date=' all those loners do it for you. And all that herpderp, carebears, ponies shiting rainbows talk is getting old.

[/quote']

Oh boy I love your definition of easymode.

The player who is spending hours of his life to make access to some places hard is the easymoder and not the player that bitches after getting shot when trying to go after easy loot in big city?

Hate getting shot? Avoid most populated easy-loot areas like Cherno.

[dallas 5195]

You have some good points there' date=' however there are players who sit in rooms or at the outskirts of the city for hours just so they could kill anyone they see without any attention on looting them, they dont do that to survive they do it just for the lolz, ruining the game in the process.

PvP needs some changes and if that doesnt happen many players will just stop playing. There is over a 1000 players active right now, each with his own taste and opinion, attacking every player that doesnt agree with you is pointless, stupid and contra productive. We need some balance in the gamplay.

[/quote']

This is a survival game.

Without PvP - players would end up sitting on top of giant piles of canned food and handgrendes and once in a while, they go kill a few poor zombies with their NVGs and their backpacks full of ammo.

Rocket would then have to invent some stupid superzombies with wings and laser shooting toenails to keep people entertained.

The guy patiently camping the good loot through his high-powered scope is rewarded for his patience, because enough players are too lazy to scavenge in the remote countryside. He is only camping there, because people walks straight into his sights and for that he should be rewarded.

The game as I see it:

-We all have to survive.

-How you chose to survive is up to you.

-PvP will naturally occur near the best rescources.

-PvE will become avoiding PvP, eating roadkill and out of trashcans.

You can either make it hard for yourself or you can take from others.

[Banano (DayZ) 0]

PvP would be great if people didn't disconnect in combat, Mr. Snipes

[ImpRoV- 3]

You talk with honor yet you and your "crew" d/c when you guys are losing in a gang fight. I want to take this post seriously, but you're just scum who tries their best to keep the loot and fight another day. See you next time in game bud

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

why make pve servers when there are other mods that do just that?

[Virfortis 111]

You got everyithing backwards.

Camping on other players just for the lolz IS the easy mode. You really dont have to do anything else' date=' all those loners do it for you. And all that herpderp, carebears, ponies shiting rainbows talk is getting old.

[/quote']

Oh boy I love your definition of easymode.

The player who is spending hours of his life to make access to some places hard is the easymoder and not the player that bitches after getting shot when trying to go after easy loot in big city?

Hate getting shot? Avoid most populated easy-loot areas like Cherno.

Actually, the "you don't like mass murdering? CAREBEAR PUSSY YOU LIKE SHITTING RAINBOWS AND HUGGING TREES!" flaming is old, done and buried, and only an asshole would throw out the word "carebear" just so they can try to sound all "hardcore"

Oh yeah, what's for the "hardcore" crowd? Call of Duty, so listen up. Faggotry like calling someone a carebear is exactly what ruined the truly "hardcore" image, now we have an awesome mod in the works and people want it hard as possible. Totally understandable, but some players want a more gamey feel ala co-op. Why? BECAUSE IT'S FUN TO THEM, NOT BECAUSE THEY'RE AN IMAGINARY TREE HUGGER.

There is a co-op mod out there SPECIFICALLY for players that want a no-bandit experience. It's right on the General Discussion stickies. So instead of replying to people wanting co-op as a "carebear" we should call them what they really are: Players wanting to have fun on their term.

Just copy-paste this whenever someone asks for a co-op, SP, or "easier" experience:

There is a mod already released that contains much of what you want. http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3619

I encourage you to try it, happy gaming!

[eegore 23]

RE: A view on this whole PvP fiasco

PVP is what makes this game.

The zombies are there for your annoyance, this is survival of the fittest.

The world has ended, there are zombies everywhere, and people looking to take your 8 Makarov clips and your 2 cans of beans.

If you don't like it leave, because there's always going to be a sniper outside of Chernogorsk.

Definitely says it best.

[WitchZero 0]

I see many people arguing about this whole PvP business. As a fellow player with experience in being the "Lone Wolf"' date=' a squad leader (3-5 squad mates in tow), and a group leader (10-20 following directions), as well as being a team mate under the command of another, both PvP and PvE are both staples of the mod as a whole. I can *understand* the gripes of those in the anti-PvP camp, but as it adds a whole new dimension to the mod itself, it can [b']NOT be removed without detracting one of the largest contributing factors of Day Z. This is what I'd like to elaborate on in this thread.

Many of those who have picked up ARMA 2 have been under the assumption that this is a simple zombie-apocalypse mod. This could not be farther from the truth. ARMA 2 was, is, and always has been a military simulator constructed in the mindset of including even the smallest of details that are compatible with the engine itself. It is a game whose playerbase has been accustomed to intricate detail, coordination, teamplay, and an incredibly steep penalty for errors and incompetence and high rewards for successes. This isn't to be taken as an insult to those who want PvP gone, because these points are applicable to both camps; that is to say, those who PvP are under the same stresses as those who do not. Simply put, ARMA 2 is not a game for everyone, and Day Z much more so. It is a game where survival, awareness, coordination, and trust are paramount next to weapons and gear. A small tightly-knit group with Makarov's and Winchester's is a far more dangerous and effective weapon than a larger, more uncoordinated group who has mid to high-tier gear (and please do not argue about the semantics of this point, as they are pretty much moot to the point being made).

Now, there are arguments as to the advantages that many PvPer's have (such as pressing alt+F4 in the middle of a fight to save themselves, being on Teamspeak in a group or groups, et cetera ad infinitum), and I will admit that these *are* valid points. Many of these stem from the infrastructure that the game is played on, or simply things that can't be avoided without the developers pulling all-nighters to code in systems that can prevent these problems (and might I say, I have faith that in the future such systems will be put in and refined until a balance has been made). Even taking these problems into account, removing the biggest and most in-depth aspect of the game (the human condition and emergence of choices/actions into in-game situations) will have incredibly devastating results on the playerbase as a whole. This game gained its' popularity simply because of how a single action can shape the environment of the map. The players who enjoy this type of gameplay are a very small niche of the millions in the gaming community as a whole. It can and will be argued that removing certain aspects of the game to make it more palatable for the masses is a good thing, however that entire line of thinking will water down the experience that can not be found anywhere else in the gaming world. It would be as if someone had stolen the Mona Lisa and made her clothes more modern, has put make-up on her, and had much more "attitude." The diamond-in-the-rough would be removed from the barren and rocky place it exists in, then cut, polished, and added into a pile of diamonds the looked very similar to itself, when it is a treasure in it's own place.

All of this isn't to say a handful of PvE-only servers shouldn't exist, as they could bring a whole new idea to the table. Imagine whole cities that people could build out of Barbed Wire, sandbags, and a little know-how. Whole towns being constructed, broken down, moved, or over-run by zombies on a whim. To me it sounds like a pretty neat idea, even though it wouldn't suit my tastes.

But the complete removal of PvP itself? Never.

Never in a million years.

DayZ dev's, you've done a wonderful job in creating this mod for us. I haven't been so engrossed into a video game in such a long while that I can't even remember what the last game I played was that made me feel like part of the world in which I played. I couldn't imagine DayZ without the many, many deaths I've received, as well as the act of committing said crimes. You all are doing superb, and I know quite a few people who have the same thoughts. Thank you so damned much for making this.

The threat of players is a core component of DayZ and the emotional response it elicits from the player is precisely what this experiment was created for. I understand ARMA2's core principles but more so are the DayZ priciples upon which it was created.

Simply put, hiding from another stressed out human who probably doesn't want to kill you but is so scared that your the asshole that is going to kill HIM is a large portion of this awesome experience.

This is a Mod also. There is nothing preventing someone from creating another Mod for the DayZ Mod that allows you to survive alone. Just don't expect Rocket and the Crew to do it for you. :P