How to 'force' new items to respawn?

[Bizzyb 9]

After read this, I am convinced you have not read any of the rest of the conversation before you jumped in. In fact, after reading this, I am convinced you didn't even read your own argument. "Being as you enjoy the eye rolling comparison to real life..." This quote right here tells me a lot. You brought up the comparison to real life in your last post by saying, "It also creates a realistic atmosphere..." I was simply retorting what you said.

"If you steal from someone in real life, it doesn't matter what your intentions are, you're still stealing and breaking the law." You said this prior to me even joining the conversation. You continued to take it a step further, by making vague real life references and mask them with me simply using a single word "realistic". Another excellent try, but seen right through. Also you use repetition again, really hard this time. Every other sentence is a reference to me not reading your posts, eventhough I purposely break them down section by section and destroy each section with common sense and a sprinkle of logic. And yet again, as if purposefully ironic, you fall more victim to your accusations then I.

I'd also ask you to read the definition of semantics before you go tossing it around. Most of what you wrote I can dismiss as you not reading any of what I wrote, so a lot of it I won't even address, because I'd rather not repeat myself.

This is a dodge and a pathetic one at that, if I didn't retort ALL of the dumb things you say; we wouldnt be here. If you cannot properly refute truth, fact, and logic.. Then don't even squabble over my posts. I am just as shocked as you are, that you are still responding. I cannot understand being proven wrong on several things, made to look a little silly, and still coming back and just saying "You didnt read my posts! I wont respond to you, but here let me reply...". LOL.

I'll start by address your first point. I will have to repeat myself here, but since I feel like this is the core of the issue, I will do it anyway. Just because it's a game mechanic doesn't mean it was meant to be exploited. There are many games, with many mechanics, that have side effects or other uses than what they were intended for. I said that the game mechanic was not intended to be used that way, and not that it wasn't a game mechanic. I actually know this for a fact, because Rocket has said it himself.

You cannot show where he said this or prove he has "rules" or even just opposes the respawning of items. Regardless it does not matter, because it can be modified on our end if deemed a problem. Spawns are being easily tweaked by almost every server, to some degree, so that is what absolutely disproves what you're saying. I havent seen a single server with no item respawns. So you keep saying it like it is a widely accepted fact or the reality, when in fact YOUR OPINION ON IT IS THE MINORITY. Oops, this will be "not read" and fall under repeating yourself im sure.

As for having to roll around after breaking your leg, I can attribute that user error. You should always carry at least one morphine on you at a time. Preferably two. If you are just spawned and haven't had time to get some yet, then you don't have much to lose, so just kill yourself and respawn. And if, for some reason, you do break your legs, and you want to live, but you have no morphine, then that's too bad. But I don't see how that applies anyway.

Excellent. I knew it wouldnt be long before you put your foot in your mouth. You are arguing that using a game mechanic is cheating, exactly along the lines of hacking (your words), yet you are quick to offer an exploit as a work around. Kill yourself to respawn fresh? That is literally exploiting the game. So much for playing fair in this survivor game. Your credibility, if there was any left, is shot and bleeding out.. Maybe just respawn and start again, it would be way too much work and effort repairing it.

All you did there was say something about the game that might be a retort to what I said if you only skimmed my words. But if you actually read what I said, which I'm still not sure you did, you would see that what you said has no context. Most of what you wrote next I can attribute to you not reading my previous posts.

Posting so much, yet saying so little. You thought it was a show stopper to ask me to explain the 'real life' rational to doing this. Dont get all pissy because I nailed it with ease after mocking how stupid it was to begin with.

I will ask though, how do you know that there would be lots of stuff under rubble. In fact, if the apocalypse we're talking about is zombies, why is there even all this rubble you mentioned in the first place? Zombies don't break down walls and destroy cars. And even if there is all this rubble, why would there be stuff under it? The only thing I can see that would make what you said sensible, would be if you're talking about like a whole building falling apart on top of itself or something. Again, I would ask why. And if so, most, if not all, of this great loot would be crushed or destroyed. And, lastly, the final paragraph. All of this, I chalk up to you not actually reading what I have said.

Im appalled you would cling to this single thing, but not surprised considering everything else was perfectly rebutted and fell under "You didnt read". How I wish I hadnt, it is getting embarrassing. Anyway this is absolutely semantics, we do not know the state of disrepair, the location, the building materials, the time elapsed, ect. Also zombies potentially could break down walls and destroy parts of cars.The point of mentioning rubble was to illustrate how the most usable things would NOT be sitting out in plain sight. Even though I could, I will not further bicker over 'rubble' and will replace it completely with scavenge. I know you got my point and realized how spot on it was. In a panic you latched on to a building falling on a bag of chips and how scavenging would be impossible. Your real life wild card didnt work, your accusations of cheating didnt stick, honestly nothing you're saying is sticking. You keep saying im not reading it and my lord you dont know how much I wish that was true, but its simply not true. Youre not saying anything relevant or sensible, bottom line.

I actually agree with you that it's a mechanic and there's nothing stopping players from doing it, but that is why I am so up in arms about it. The only way to stop people from doing it is to inform them that it is considered an exploit. And I do play on both private HIVE and public HIVE servers.

You cannot be on the high horse anymore, I am sorry. You pushed so hard for it to be considered an exploit, yet offered without thinking a solution to a problem I trapped you with, an actual exploit (character respawn abuse). If you want to just say "You didnt read anything ever" or something.. I will let that be the last word, if that is what you need or something. Have a great day.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Bizzyb

[dystopeon 46]

loot the NW barracks.

farm the NW barracks.

camp the NW barracks.

[Sandwichx 103]

"If you steal from someone in real life, it doesn't matter what your intentions are, you're still stealing and breaking the law." You said this prior to me even joining the conversation. You continued to take it a step further, by making vague real life references and mask them with me simply using a single word "realistic". Another excellent try, but seen right through. Also you use repetition again, really hard this time. Every other sentence is a reference to me not reading your posts, eventhough I purposely break them down section by section and destroy each section with common sense and a sprinkle of logic. And yet again, as if purposefully ironic, you fall more victim to your accusations then I.

This is a dodge and a pathetic one at that, if I didn't retort ALL of the dumb things you say; we wouldnt be here. If you cannot properly refute truth, fact, and logic.. Then don't even squabble over my posts. I am just as shocked as you are, that you are still responding. I cannot understand being proven wrong on several things, made to look a little silly, and still coming back and just saying "You didnt read my posts! I wont respond to you, but here let me reply...". LOL.

You cannot show where he said this or prove he has "rules" or even just opposes the respawning of items. Regardless it does not matter, because it can be modified on our end if deemed a problem. Spawns are being easily tweaked by almost every server, to some degree, so that is what absolutely disproves what you're saying. I havent seen a single server with no item respawns. So you keep saying it like it is a widely accepted fact or the reality, when in fact YOUR OPINION ON IT IS THE MINORITY. Oops, this will be "not read" and fall under repeating yourself im sure.

Excellent. I knew it wouldnt be long before you put your foot in your mouth. You are arguing that using a game mechanic is cheating, exactly along the lines of hacking (your words), yet you are quick to offer an exploit as a work around. Kill yourself to respawn fresh? That is literally exploiting the game. So much for playing fair in this survivor game. Your credibility, if there was any left, is shot and bleeding out.. Maybe just respawn and start again, it would be way too much work and effort repairing it.

Posting so much, yet saying so little. You thought it was a show stopper to ask me to explain the 'real life' rational to doing this. Dont get all pissy because I nailed it with ease after mocking how stupid it was to begin with.

Im appalled you would cling to this single thing, but not surprised considering everything else was perfectly rebutted and fell under "You didnt read". How I wish I hadnt, it is getting embarrassing. Anyway this is absolutely semantics, we do not know the state of disrepair, the location, the building materials, the time elapsed, ect. Also zombies potentially could break down walls and destroy parts of cars.The point of mentioning rubble was to illustrate how the most usable things would NOT be sitting out in plain sight. Even though I could, I will not further bicker over 'rubble' and will replace it completely with scavenge. I know you got my point and realized how spot on it was. In a panic you latched on to a building falling on a bag of chips and how scavenging would be impossible. Your real life wild card didnt work, your accusations of cheating didnt stick, honestly nothing you're saying is sticking. You keep saying im not reading it and my lord you dont know how much I wish that was true, but its simply not true. Youre not saying anything relevant or sensible, bottom line.

You cannot be on the high horse anymore, I am sorry. You pushed so hard for it to be considered an exploit, yet offered without thinking a solution to a problem I trapped you with, an actual exploit (character respawn abuse). If you want to just say "You didnt read anything ever" or something.. I will let that be the last word, if that is what you need or something. Have a great day.

If your "truth, fact, and logic" is just a post full of personal attacks towards my person, then sure. You've provided plenty of that. Honestly, all you've been doing is trying to attack me. You haven't provided any facts or logic. You say I'm on a high horse, but it appears you're the one who thinks you're some kind of god. As for not being able to show where he's said anything about rules, please just take 30 seconds to do a search. It's really not that hard. For evidence that Rocket does not approve of loot-cycling, when asked in a interview about it, he said, "you can't encourage player ownership of the world in some ways, and then get angry at them for doing other things." However, he then goes on to say, "this is a call to arms for me and the other guys to find those exploits and tidy them up." This shows that he knows it's an exploit and he doesn't agree with it. However, he is willing to understand that he can't be angry at players for trying to use them. Here is a link to the article and video that is from. In that interview, he also gives his opinion on several others exploits. As for saying that respawning is an exploit, that is just silly. That mechanic was designed, literally, for that purpose. An exploit is when you use a mechanic for a difference purpose than the one it was designed for. And you keep bringing up this idea that private HIVE servers are involved in this conversation in any way. I've said many times already that private HIVE's are not part of this. You can do whatever you want there. I am only talking about the public HIVE. Honestly, I could pretty much sum up your whole post as "you're stupid and I don't like you". If all you're going to do it attack my words and myself, and not actually retort my arguments, then please don't come back.

[Bizzyb 9]

For evidence that Rocket does not approve of loot-cycling, when asked in a interview about it, he said, "you can't encourage player ownership of the world in some ways, and then get angry at them for doing other things." However, he then goes on to say, "this is a call to arms for me and the other guys to find those exploits and tidy them up." This shows that he knows it's an exploit and he doesn't agree with it. However, he is willing to understand that he can't be angry at players for trying to use them.

"I guess its probably an exploit, I guess it is something we have to look at, but I would consider it more a symptom of a poor loot spawn mechanic.". This after he explained how the loot spawns are, as a whole, not functioning like he would want. He goes on to say he does not blame the players for doing this. He finishes off by explaining some of his goals for stand alone and changes to the loot spawn. He also said exploit is up to interpretation, which combined with everything else means; Get over it or play somewhere it is changed or wait for loot overall to be implemented better in stand alone. He in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM, called anyone doing it a cheater or said it is considered the same level as hacking. He actually very much indicated he doesnt blame people for doing it. So im not sure why you thought that supported your calling people doing it cheaters who should be banned.

So thank you very much for providing this link, it absolutely ends the argument about whether or not this is cheating or simply taking advantage of something incorporated in the game.

As for the large majority of your post, like nearly all of them, I wont respond to it. You have been calling people cheaters, children, name calling, finger wagging, ect. Since you got here. Over exaggeration is your cup of tea, obviously, but you can't do this and then play butthurt when you perceive youre getting a little back.

Im going to assume this conversation is over now, as it is no longer debatable whether or not this is considered cheating and something people would be banned for. Thanks for the convo and sorry if you felt offended, it just seemed difficult to explain to you why this isnt cheating and something servers should enforce. Cya around!

[Sandwichx 103]

Well, you obviously missed my whole argument if you think that doesn't support what I've been saying. The core of my argument was that the mechanic was not designed to be used that way, and using it that way, you are, by definition, exploiting it. I realized there is nothing I can do about except debate the ethics of doing so. I was simply trying to persuade people into not doing it. My point, in the end, is not really that it is cheating, but rather that you should stop doing it not because it's against the rules, but because it's just wrong to do. If you don't agree, that's too bad.

I'd also like to add that if I did insult or in any other way offend anyone, I do apologize. The... heat of the situation can really get to one during an situation like this.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Sandwichx

[Bizzyb 9]

Well, you obviously missed my whole argument if you think that doesn't support what I've been saying. The core of my argument was that the mechanic was not designed to be used that way, and using it that way, you are, by definition, exploiting it. I realized there is nothing I can do about except debate the ethics of doing so. I was simply trying to persuade people into not doing it. My point, in the end, is not really that it is cheating, but rather that you should stop doing it not because it's against the rules, but because it's just wrong to do. If you don't agree, that's too bad.

I'd also like to add that if I did insult or in any other way offend anyone, I do apologize. The... heat of the situation can really get to one during an situation like this.

What you were saying and what forced me to debunk said spiel, was people who cycle loot were cheaters on par with hacking, as far as to suggest the practice being blacklisted on every server. Overall the shiftiness of your sketchy 'perfect player' portrayal just wasnt convincing and you were easily tied up into acknowledging your 'fault'; simple mechanics like 'respawn' are used to bypass the survival elements of the game just as much- Like abusing spawn mechanics to exploit for instance. I think you've also logged to another sever to move somewhere undetected, a hunch of course but my hunches are prize horses in accuracy. Anyway.. you can argue until youre blue in the face and it just wont matter. Its a sandbox game and even if its a cat turd covered in sand, it isnt some illegal commonly frowned upon thing- you're blowing it out of proportion out of some weird butt hurt of always think people cheated to outplay you. But to everyone else its simply classified as; Tough titties.

Like I said though, sure was fun and what not. We all hope all these game mechanics and bugs are removed/altered from this mod in time for stand alone and done in a way that is less.. debatable. Regardless, good luck and have fun.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Bizzyb

[Sandwichx 103]

I think you've also logged to another sever to move somewhere undetected, a hunch of course but my hunches are prize horses in accuracy.

This is just totally untrue. I'm done with the argument, as I have said my piece, but I will defend myself from slander. Hacking, loot cycling, server hopping, ghosting, dupping ect. These are all things I do not subscribe to, nor would I ever support.

[Mash Tactics 3]

I like how people are using the word 'exploit' like it's a bad thing.

Exploiting is to make full and complete use of something. Like an in-game mechanic developed for the purpose of creating new loot for players to obtain.

I also like how people seem to think that exploit and cheat/hack seems to mean the same thing. To exploit is to take full advantage of a previously-existing mechanic to your advantage. To 'cheat', in it's most primitive form, is to act dishonestly to get an advantage.

Using a mechanics that was purposely put in the game to do what it's currently doing is not cheating.

Loot cycling, ghosting, combat logging, etc. are ALL part of the game. Though I don't combat log or ghost, I do loot cycle. I don't use any third party programs or anything like that. I just play the game. If you get mad because of that, then go ahead. Be mad. If ghosting and combat logging become universally bannable, then that's fine by me. It's a shitty tactic anyways. However, loot cycling doesn't hurt anyone, nor does it disrupt their gaming schedule.

It's just a smarter way to play.

[Sandwichx 103]

The definition of exploit from several different dictionaries. Just going to leave this here.

Exploit:

- to use selfishly for one's own ends

- to take advantage of (a person, situation, etc), esp unethically or unjustly for one's own end

- To make use of selfishly or unethically

- to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage

[Mash Tactics 3]

ex·ploit

   [ek-sploit, ik-sploit]

noun

- a striking or notable deed; feat; spirited or heroic act: the exploitsof Alexander the Great.

- to employ to the greatest possible advantage

- to make productive use of

- use something for benefit: to use or develop something in order to gain a benefit

We could literally cherry-pick definitions from Google all day. All we would accomplish is demonstrating that a definition is entirely subjective, and based on context and perspective. In this context, unless you can demonstrate how loot cycling is 'unjust', 'unethical', 'unfair', 'mean', or 'selfish', then I think we can go ahead and roll with the actual definitions that I provided.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Mash Tactics

[Penny Sue 77]

I'm kinda torn on this ... feature. I totally understand why it works this way.

On the one hand I, personally, don't want to do this. To me I feel like I'm intentionally leveraging game mechanics for expidited gain. I've really made an effort to just loot what I can and move on. I don't come back 10 minutes later. Even if I'm dehydrated and haven't found anything usefull for an hour straight.

On the other hand... I've gotten pretty unlucky a several times. I sneak into towns filled with zombies and wander around buildings but what do I find? Empty cans, empty liqour bottles, chem lights, road flares, scrap metal, bullets for guns I've never seen. Sneak around into some other buildings... same junk. Get chased off by zombies and run... and run... and run... to the next town or set of buildings. Repeat. I've literaly died of dehydration... not a damn thing to drink. I find tons of car parts! Neat ... I can't drink them.... I can't eat them... During these bouts of bad luck I get REALLY tempted to force some respawns =)

I actually tried it a couple of times... and it just felt wrong... it sucked the glory and exhuberence out when I findally did get something useful. I didn't earn it by risking my life... I cheated to get it and ultimately it was unsatisfactory.

That first revolver I found when I risked it all to sneak past a bunch of zombies was marvolous! I cherished that thing! I earned it and I was worthy to wield it.

[Mash Tactics 3]

Loot cycling works for the people who don't move across the entire map looking for someone to shoot.

As it stands, big settlements are very far apart. Why would I waste my time on a hour and a half trip heading to the next supermarket, when I can easily get double the loot by just cycling the supermarket I'm near, in half the time? And that's just residential loot.

Am I going to take one sweep through the NEAF and then go on the two hour there-and-back journey to the NWAF because I couldn't find the exact ammo I needed? Shit no. I'm going to sit tight, and loot cycle. Getting ANY loot is dangerous. Loot cycling is waaaaay more risky than moving on to the next point. If a guy sits in the same supermarket for four hours, he's probably going to run into another person. It's called risk versus reward.

And hell, that's completely disregarding the argument about loot that doesn't even spawn. I'm not about to make a half-hour journey across a zombie-infested wasteland in the hopes that the loot actually decides to spawn wherever I'm headed.

If you still want to consider it unethical or whatever, that's okay. I understand your viewpoint on that. You're entitled to your own opinion, and you certainly aren't being forced to do it. However, I DO expect you to look upon things like Helicopter Crash Site farming with the exact same perspective. Don't be a hypocrite, now.

[Sandwichx 103]

ex·ploit

   [ek-sploit, ik-sploit]

noun

- a striking or notable deed; feat; spirited or heroic act: the exploitsof Alexander the Great.

- to employ to the greatest possible advantage

- to make productive use of

- use something for benefit: to use or develop something in order to gain a benefit

We could literally cherry-pick definitions from Google all day. All we would accomplish is demonstrating that a definition is entirely subjective, and based on context and perspective. In this context, unless you can demonstrate how loot cycling is 'unjust', 'unethical', 'unfair', 'mean', or 'selfish', then I think we can go ahead and roll with the actual definitions that I provided.

The first definition you provided has no context here, as that is the definition of exploit as a noun. We are talking about exploit as a verb. There is quite a big difference there. And while, yes, there are definitions of the word that sound neutral or even good, the word exploit, in its verb form, is generally look upon in a negative way. As for demonstrating how it is those things you mentioned, please just read my previous posts.

[zyfer.nyholm@gmail.com 131]

to all the people whining about this.

"Would you rather have a person log out and log in to get the loot? 1. he can spawn in behind you without having spawned zombies so you dont know he is even there 2. If he does that he is most likely a combat logger/ghoster"

Loot cycling has its many risks, you spawn zombies and you are at one place running about and you probably have to kill zombies now and then, when loot cycling you dont really pay that much attention other than finding great loot so the main thought is loot and not enemies so you are an easy kill, you can even end up getting all the great loot after a long time and then get killed but thats the name of the game. Id rather have a person loot cycling than have someone disconnect and reconnnect to get loot.

Atleast they arent hacking or directly ruining other peoples day just for kicks, loot cycling only gives that much of an advantage and it aint much so is it even worth discussing? i mean, its not really a huuuuge issue lol.

[Penny Sue 77]

Loot cycling works for the people who don't move across the entire map looking for someone to shoot.

As it stands, big settlements are very far apart. Why would I waste my time on a hour and a half trip heading to the next supermarket, when I can easily get double the loot by just cycling the supermarket I'm near, in half the time? And that's just residential loot.

Am I going to take one sweep through the NEAF and then go on the two hour there-and-back journey to the NWAF because I couldn't find the exact ammo I needed? Shit no. I'm going to sit tight, and loot cycle. Getting ANY loot is dangerous. Loot cycling is waaaaay more risky than moving on to the next point. If a guy sits in the same supermarket for four hours, he's probably going to run into another person. It's called risk versus reward.

And hell, that's completely disregarding the argument about loot that doesn't even spawn. I'm not about to make a half-hour journey across a zombie-infested wasteland in the hopes that the loot actually decides to spawn wherever I'm headed.

If you still want to consider it unethical or whatever, that's okay. I understand your viewpoint on that. You're entitled to your own opinion, and you certainly aren't being forced to do it. However, I DO expect you to look upon things like Helicopter Crash Site farming with the exact same perspective. Don't be a hypocrite, now.

I'm glad you can appreciate my point of view on this and I hope you understand it's my personal view. I'm not passing judgement on you, or anyone else here. Certainly not going to get into some ethical pissing match that we've seen in this thread. I did point out that I totally understand why people do it and I'm often tempted to do it myself. It REALLY sucks running around for so long only to find junk... then keep running to find yet more junk. But to me it makes accomplishment so much more satisfying when I do finally find something good!

Not sure I totally agree that camping loot spawns is more risky. I see what you mean and I've read other peoples argument about this. Maybe it's more of a risk when camping and cycling good spots like super markets, hospitals, etc. I've seen little to no risk camping places that are less desirable. I just rarely run into people at all let alone in some machine shed on a pier. Never seem to worry about zombies once I'm IN a building. Maybe I've just been lucky here. Again it may be much more risky in highly desirable buildings because people seek them out on purpose.

I think it's more risky running from building to building. I've never been killed in a building. Always seem to get zerged by zeds or capped by other players when I'm running outside of buildings. You even note that you don't want to run across a zombie filled wasteland ... because it's risky and the loot isn't guaranteed.

I've never found a heli crash site. However I'm rather principled and do try not to be a hypocrite. Like I mentioned before; forcing loot cycles takes away the sense of accomplishment for me... I just don't like it. It also cheapens the whole experience. By that I mean... if I can just force loot cycles and eventually get what I want... I really don't care if I loose anything... I'm really not worried about trying to survive... so the game becomes less meaningful and eventually boring. I've done it in other games and come to realize these things.

[Bizzyb 9]

This is just totally untrue. I'm done with the argument, as I have said my piece, but I will defend myself from slander. Hacking, loot cycling, server hopping, ghosting, dupping ect. These are all things I do not subscribe to, nor would I ever support.

How do I know? It is always the real cheaters who try to flee to moral high ground in any argument that you dont constantly remind them is over semantics. Now that we have narrowed down this game mechanic and not in anyway cheating, I feel putting your game play on the ropes is more the important topic. As the argument ends we are left with only the lingering of your formal accusation, simply deemed 'optionally' forbidden. So I wonder what other game things fall into this category that you may support or oppose, (since finally you submit on the argument at han) that further shows you how to be less lynch mob on those who dont share your definition of perfect gaming. You already supported, without thought and just naturally, respawn as a means of avoiding the hard survival aspect of the game, like taking a short walk off a roof because you werent "paying attention", but how nice it was to get the spawn over by where your tent was.. Right? Same thing. I would personally blacklist people like you just the same, but sadly for us we are stuck together playing a near perfect version of a perfect game. So thank you for saying your piece, as it will stand mostly as a testament on what not to bother debating. Here is your 2 cent refund.

So once again I wish you good luck and bid you adieu.

[Sandwichx 103]

How do I know? It is always the real cheaters who try to flee to moral high ground in any argument that you dont constantly remind them is over semantics. Now that we have narrowed down this game mechanic and not in anyway cheating, I feel putting your game play on the ropes is more the important topic. As the argument ends we are left with only the lingering of your formal accusation, simply deemed 'optionally' forbidden. So I wonder what other game things fall into this category that you may support or oppose, (since finally you submit on the argument at han) that further shows you how to be less lynch mob on those who dont share your definition of perfect gaming. You already supported, without thought and just naturally, respawn as a means of avoiding the hard survival aspect of the game, like taking a short walk off a roof because you werent "paying attention", but how nice it was to get the spawn over by where your tent was.. Right? Same thing. I would personally blacklist people like you just the same, but sadly for us we are stuck together playing a near perfect version of a perfect game. So thank you for saying your piece, as it will stand mostly as a testament on what not to bother debating. Here is your 2 cent refund.

So once again I wish you good luck and bid you adieu.

I was trying to be civil, but your post is full of backhanded, passive-aggressive comments that, honestly, make me wish I could slap you across the internet. I've already explain why things like using the respawn button are not exploits, but obviously you failed, again, to read that part. And condemning me for doing things like using the respawn button just makes you a hypocrite. As for this notion you seem to have about me being on my "high horse" or trying to "flee to the moral high ground", it seems to me that you're the one doing that. You have this arrogant air to you that just sickens me.

[internetTAB (DayZ) 76]

Oh so if I go into the supermarket and all I can find is trash because someone left all the crap he didn't want I'm not going to clear it out and see if I get some usable loot am I not?? also if you have 5-6 (or more) players in a group looting the airfield you have to clear trash so that all players get a fair chance at loot.

Truth be told I haven't done it in a while but for me moaning about something like this is as pathetic as you say the people who do it are.

I don't even play anymore, but I have to emphasize this point. In my experience, running into a supermarket, taking the beans / etc you find w/ junk loot still there, then running away (who wants to die? :D) screws everyone else who was unlucky enough to come in behind said player. That player isn't obligated to get rid of the junk loot, so why should he take it? I mean--- I suppose there is the whole "Realism" argument, but I won't even go there :D

Edited October 23, 2012 by internetTAB

[Bizzyb 9]

I was trying to be civil, but your post is full of backhanded, passive-aggressive comments that, honestly, make me wish I could slap you across the internet. I've already explain why things like using the respawn button are not exploits, but obviously you failed, again, to read that part. And condemning me for doing things like using the respawn button just makes you a hypocrite. As for this notion you seem to have about me being on my "high horse" or trying to "flee to the moral high ground", it seems to me that you're the one doing that. You have this arrogant air to you that just sickens me.

I have no concern or care for what you wish. It also does not matter what you explained, dying somewhere by "caring a little less" about your character, to 'teleport' around the map to your favorite destination, is absolutely the same type of "exploit" you crusaded against here. I also have no remorse for causing your stomach to turn, as it is more likely guilt. You called people cheaters because you disagreed with using the game mechanic, but incidentally admitted others you use on a whim without second thought. So throw around the word hypocrite or that someone with an air of arrogance makes you a little sick, so I may stretch this grin of justice even further.

We've already agreed this isn't a "cheat" worthy of blacklisting anyone, nor even any consideration. We've established that there is no servers with this ruleset in place, even though its easy to set up. Therefore... We've also concluded you over reacted in order to get a rise over something you didn't see eye to eye with the large majority of the player base over.

Now we need just close to book and stare at the cover wishing our stomachs didnt hurt out of disgust for those who cant apply the slightest logic to their ignorance.

Good day.. ill start.

[Sandwichx 103]

I have no concern or care for what you wish. It also does not matter what you explained, dying somewhere by "caring a little less" about your character, to 'teleport' around the map to your favorite destination, is absolutely the same type of "exploit" you crusaded against here. I also have no remorse for causing your stomach to turn, as it is more likely guilt. You called people cheaters because you disagreed with using the game mechanic, but incidentally admitted others you use on a whim without second thought. So throw around the word hypocrite or that someone with an air of arrogance makes you a little sick, so I may stretch this grin of justice even further.

We've already agreed this isn't a "cheat" worthy of blacklisting anyone, nor even any consideration. We've established that there is no servers with this ruleset in place, even though its easy to set up. Therefore... We've also concluded you over reacted in order to get a rise over something you didn't see eye to eye with the large majority of the player base over.

Now we need just close to book and stare at the cover wishing our stomachs didnt hurt out of disgust for those who cant apply the slightest logic to their ignorance.

Good day.. ill start.

So much wrong with your post. No one ever agreed it wasn't a cheat, and no one ever said there wasn't any servers that have rules against it. In fact, I've played on several that have very specific rules against loot cycling. You're obviously the one who is failing apply logic. You don't read, or can't seem to comprehend my half of the argument. I don't know if it's out of sheer will to disregard logic or reasoning, or if you're really that thick. Honestly, your whole argument comes down to you obviously not knowing what my side of the argument entails. I've repeated myself many times, and yet you still fail to understand. Now, if you can't be civil and have an argument without resorting to personal insults, you might as well just stop.

[Mash Tactics 3]

The first definition you provided has no context here, as that is the definition of exploit as a noun. We are talking about exploit as a verb. There is quite a big difference there. And while, yes, there are definitions of the word that sound neutral or even good, the word exploit, in its verb form, is generally look upon in a negative way. As for demonstrating how it is those things you mentioned, please just read my previous posts.

I like how you completely danced around my point.

How about YOU go back and explain how loot cycling is unjust, unethical, mean, unfair, or selfish. Then, when you manage to do that, you can go on explaining how loot cycling can be used in that context. Or, you can keep floundering this argument like a retarded guppie in a sink.

Oh, and for the record, using the respawn button to position yourself closer to your intended goal IS an exploit. By your very own definition it's a game mechanic being used in an unintended manner.

Jackass.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Mash Tactics

[Sandwichx 103]

I like how you completely danced around my point.

How about YOU go back and explain how loot cycling is unjust, unethical, mean, unfair, or selfish. Then, when you manage to do that, you can go on explaining how loot cycling can be used in that context. Or, you can keep floundering this argument like a retarded guppie in a sink.

Oh, and for the record, using the respawn button to position yourself closer to your intended goal IS an exploit. By your very own definition it's a game mechanic being used in an unintended manner.

Jackass.

You obviously, like your friend above, don't know how to have a civil argument. If you can't refrain from personal insults, please stop posting. I feel like everyone that is on your side of the argument can't read. I've explained my points several times thoroughly. As I've mentioned, probably a half a dozen times, please read my previous posts to see my points, instead of being lazy and telling me to rewrite everything just for you. And, for the record, I never said I used the respawn button to get a better position. I said you can use it to respawn if you are in an unsavory situation. The example provided was that you have a broken leg, don't have any morphine and aren't near a hospital. You can keep making thing up about what I said, but it won't prove your point.

[Bizzyb 9]

So much wrong with your post. No one ever agreed it wasn't a cheat, and no one ever said there wasn't any servers that have rules against it. In fact, I've played on several that have very specific rules against loot cycling. You're obviously the one who is failing apply logic. You don't read, or can't seem to comprehend my half of the argument. I don't know if it's out of sheer will to disregard logic or reasoning, or if you're really that thick. Honestly, your whole argument comes down to you obviously not knowing what my side of the argument entails. I've repeated myself many times, and yet you still fail to understand. Now, if you can't be civil and have an argument without resorting to personal insults, you might as well just stop.

Once again it is back into the shell, the go to defense of YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ME!!! I sadly do and what it is YOU that cannot understand; is that it doesnt matter. What you do or dont do has no bearing on the topic at hand. You classified "Loot cycling" as something that should be considered a game world destroying, flat out cheating, exploit and to be blacklisted from every server. What I quickly jibbed, if you were doing some of that paying attention you whine so much about, is that there has to be a server that supports it. I doubt there is even one, but regardless even a handful would be a tiny minority of the 5-6.5k different Dayz servers usually running when I play. This defeats your white knight gallivanting the lowly forums routine and is the cold hard uppercut of logic that topples your limp body of lies, right to the canvas.

This is what I thought you understood. You laid down your "argument" under the guise of righteousness and that too is undermined by similarities to other 'bugged game mechanics', you support whole heartedly. You thought we were arguing your crazy real life scenarios that you thought even counted in a conversation amongst grown people. Now there is no back peddling, there is no "You didn't read", you dont get it.. There is your one true last chance to reform your asinine opinion into something that hasnt already felt the red sting of the backhand of sound logic.

It isnt cheating and you cannot argue otherwise. It is not, you want it to be and are trying to raise awareness... I get that and it is cute, but im passing up on the girl scout cookies. So you make a valid statement worthy of my perceptive time or you spout more confused meandering, pussy footing, and general around the bush beating. Choice is yours holy man.

[Bizzyb 9]

You obviously, like your friend above, don't know how to have a civil argument. If you can't refrain from personal insults, please stop posting. I feel like everyone that is on your side of the argument can't read. I've explained my points several times thoroughly. As I've mentioned, probably a half a dozen times, please read my previous posts to see my points, instead of being lazy and telling me to rewrite everything just for you. And, for the record, I never said I used the respawn button to get a better position. I said you can use it to respawn if you are in an unsavory situation. The example provided was that you have a broken leg, don't have any morphine and aren't near a hospital. You can keep making thing up about what I said, but it won't prove your point.

Your points don't count, at all, as i've debunked each and every one. Using the respawn if youre in an unsavory situation or like a real survival game forage through that hospital a bit better and have fun. The second situation is someone who claims moral high ground, can simply "accidentally" fall from a height. Oh oops! Its called an exploit, your only real point was the word exploit. The creator and common sense both told you its not cheating, but you stuck your fingers in your ears and shouted 'NAH NAH BOO BOO, I CANT HEAR YOU!'. Its not some distant past that is unfindable, lol, its like 4 page thread for christ sake. Its over man, lay it down already this is getting embarrassing.

[Imafighter 236]

I do this with Barracks. Clear everything out, put it outside, go around 150 meters away, wait 3-10 minutes, repeat till I get good gear.

I got an SVD Camo and M14 this way.