The lesser of two evils.

[schrapple 119]

Lets face facts, this game has some serious problems (not that this is a complaint thread). There are some simple solutions but they aren't very pretty and come with their own drawbacks, but they are (IMO) the lesser of the two evils. I'll list the ideas below, if you are a hack or exploiter don't bother posting a teary sook, no one cares that you will be back on a level playing field.

Unlootable bodies - I know this idea will never be popular but it will help reduce the massive problem of needless player killings without affecting the game to much. It will also help reduce people teaming up to cause havoc, if they can't get their buddy to bring them their gear and have to start again from scratch they will be less likely to risk their lives.

Vehicle resets - Every vehicle will reset after an hour of no being used, simple enough? No more hoarding by clans, no more finding a vehicle then hiding it for a week so it can't be used. If a vehicle sits unused for more than an hour then it resets and goes back to a spawn point. This will free up the vehicles for the general population to use instead of the elite few who have them now, the end result will be that vehicle will be a lot more easy come easy go.

Tents die when you die - Tents can still be used but when you die so does your tent and everything in it. Will stop people being killed and running straight back and gearing up, it will also act as a punishment for death and make people more cautious with their lives.

As I said they are not perfect solutions, each one has it's own drawbacks and will still have loopholes that can be exploited but the total net effect will be positive, I think the game would be a lot better off if we introduced these sorts of fixes then worked from there to try and improve them. What do you all think?

[IndyAM 48]

Why would any of this be implemented? It would be a huge step backwards in terms of simulation and suits only one style of play. The idea is that the mod is open-ended and can suit any play style!

These are just awful suggestions! The net effect will be absolutely suicidal in terms of overall playability and player numbers.

[GeordieMarv 293]

Unlootable bodies - I know this idea will never be popular but it will help reduce the massive problem of needless player killings without affecting the game to much. It will also help reduce people teaming up to cause havoc, if they can't get their buddy to bring them their gear and have to start again from scratch they will be less likely to risk their lives.

This wont stop senseless killing at all. Considering the majority of bandits kill for the thrill of it or just to get their murder count up. Most people that kill won't even loot the body anyways. So having non lootable bodies won't help a great deal in my humble opinion.

[Hydra (DayZ) 472]

Unlootable bodies - Yeah, fuck realism.

Vehicle resets - Instead of that and making the repair of a vehicle a supreme waste of fucking time, this can be fixed by increasing the number of vehicles on a map. If hoarding comes about, go out and look in the northern forrests and steal their fully-repaired fully-gassed gear-filled vehcles.

Tents die when you die - Understandable. It's boring to have everything no matter what happens to you.

[schrapple 119]

Why would any of this be implemented? It would be a huge step backwards in terms of simulation and suits only one style of play. The idea is that the mod is open-ended and can suit any play style!

These are just awful suggestions! The net effect will be absolutely suicidal in terms of overall playability and player numbers.

You've used a lot of catch phrases but not much depth in your explanation, care to expand on any of that?

[IndyAM 48]

Yeah, they're shite suggestions. Not realistic, or in-keeping with Rocket's vision for the game. PvP has been designed and implemented by Rocket, and is supported as a method of gameplay.

Please check out THIS and THIS for further commentary by Rocket, by making it less realistic, it becomes less of a social experiment and there becomes more of a 'Right way' to play the game.

[Sula 1205]

Hydra, uh yeah, boring to have everything so easy.... so what's that like then? :o

Edited September 24, 2012 by Sula

[schrapple 119]

Yeah, they're shite suggestions. Not realistic, or in-keeping with Rocket's vision for the game. PvP has been designed and implemented by Rocket, and is supported as a method of gameplay.

Please check out THIS and THIS for further commentary by Rocket, by making it less realistic, it becomes less of a social experiment and there becomes more of a 'Right way' to play the game.

Don't hide under rockets skirt, and I fail to see what is "realistic" about dying then going and pick up stuff your last body owned. What I'm aiming to reduce isn't PvP, PvP suggests that there is a contest of some kind.

[schrapple 119]

This wont stop senseless killing at all. Considering the majority of bandits kill for the thrill of it or just to get their murder count up. Most people that kill won't even loot the body anyways. So having non lootable bodies won't help a great deal in my humble opinion.

Unlootable bodies is aimed more at stopping people getting their gear back than at stopping people getting killed for their gear. But your right you will never fully stop pointless killing.

[schrapple 119]

Unlootable bodies - Yeah, fuck realism.

Vehicle resets - Instead of that and making the repair of a vehicle a supreme waste of fucking time, this can be fixed by increasing the number of vehicles on a map. If hoarding comes about, go out and look in the northern forrests and steal their fully-repaired fully-gassed gear-filled vehcles.

Tents die when you die - Understandable. It's boring to have everything no matter what happens to you.

I agree, vehicles would have to require less repair work when first found for it to work well.

[IndyAM 48]

Don't hide under rockets skirt, and I fail to see what is "realistic" about dying then going and pick up stuff your last body owned. What I'm aiming to reduce isn't PvP, PvP suggests that there is a contest of some kind.

Let me QUOTE DIRECTLY FROM ROCKET'S POST I LINKED TO IN MY LAST POST:

DayZ was designed to be impossibly cruel, dark, and brutal. It was not designed as a game it was more of an experiment, I prefer the term "anti-game" - in other words the mechanics are not designed to be balanced, or offer a way out for different situations. These are things game designers normally take care with.

His game, his rules. A body can be looted for items, you know? It has happened throughout history and happens today. Had you suggested that only you couldn't take stuff from your own body, we might have discussed it, but no-one looting bodies is awful. Why would you not take gear from someone who has died in this kind of survival situation?

There is a contest, of survival. The best equipped survive the longest, it is basically a food chain. Are you suggesting there is no competition element to the game?

[thelonewarrior 886]

Worst ideas ive ever heard

[mibz0r 141]

Vehicle resets - Every vehicle will reset after an hour of no being used, simple enough? No more hoarding by clans, no more finding a vehicle then hiding it for a week so it can't be used. If a vehicle sits unused for more than an hour then it resets and goes back to a spawn point. This will free up the vehicles for the general population to use instead of the elite few who have them now, the end result will be that vehicle will be a lot more easy come easy go.

NO, NO and NO I spend countless hours repairing a vehicle so that it will be of use to my small band of men, if it reset after an hour of non usage it would mean that vehicles were completely ignored and of no use at all. It's bad enough having some lil sh1thead TP it away for his amusement, never mind the game screwing me over as well, also I do not hoard the vehicles I take one to keep and any others get dumped where people can find them with lovely little treats for the first player lucky enough to get in.

P.S. Tents disappearing when you die is un-realistic, oh I died and all off a sudden my tent packs itself up and all the gear in it is gone, maybe the tent slowly emptying itself of contents over a couple of days (also cannot be restocked) until it is empty at which point it disappears

Edited September 24, 2012 by Oldy1Kenobi

[Hydra (DayZ) 472]

Hydra, uh yeah, boring to have everything so easy.... so what's that like then? :o

It means not having to ever look around for equipment. It takes away so much from the game. There is no amazing relief upon finding a map in a store, no amazement at finding a helicopter crash. When I last had a full camp (before I satchel charged that shit) I literally had nothing to do but pk. My favorite part of the game is running around as a low-value survivor, as far fewer people want to kill you for your shit. Less people trying to kill you equals more interaction. More interaction equals a hell of a lot more fun.

[schrapple 119]

Let me QUOTE DIRECTLY FROM ROCKET'S POST I LINKED TO IN MY LAST POST:

His game, his rules. A body can be looted for items, you know? It has happened throughout history and happens today. Had you suggested that only you couldn't take stuff from your own body, we might have discussed it, but no-one looting bodies is awful. Why would you not take gear from someone who has died in this kind of survival situation?

There is a contest, of survival. The best equipped survive the longest, it is basically a food chain. Are you suggesting there is no competition element to the game?

I have discussed the idea of not being able to loot your own stuff before, but it isn't feasible in the mods current form. It would have to be a standalone thing, I'm try to improve the current mod. You keep talking about realism, but I don't recall anytime throughout history where dead people looted their own stuff, it is a game and which ever of the two choice you make with regards to looting it will be unrealistic.

You have quoted rocket as saying the game should be brutal, is having all your gear back 5 minutes after you die without having to do anything brutal? Yes there is a social experiment element to it but literally anything a designer does will control how the game is played, nothing can ever be truly sandbox. And if the social experiment is to let the kids of the internet go wild in a playground with no rules even I could tell you what will happen, and I won't need to design a mod to do it.

[Tabris07 159]

It would just be stupid for a person to be unable to loot another body, but I agree that the inability to loot your own body from a previous life is a bit better.

[schrapple 119]

NO, NO and NO I spend countless hours repairing a vehicle so that it will be of use to my small band of men, if it reset after an hour of non usage it would mean that vehicles were completely ignored and of no use at all. It's bad enough having some lil sh1thead TP it away for his amusement, never mind the game screwing me over as well, also I do not hoard the vehicles I take one to keep and any others get dumped where people can find them with lovely little treats for the first player lucky enough to get in.

P.S. Tents disappearing when you die is un-realistic, oh I died and all off a sudden my tent packs itself up and all the gear in it is gone, maybe the tent slowly emptying itself of contents over a couple of days (also cannot be restocked) until it is empty at which point it disappears

I never claimed that the changes would make it more realistic ( Fact is I hate the term even being used, true realism in a game would be shit), Having your tent disappear is no more unrealistic then a dead man picking up his own stored gear or for that matter stuff slowly vanishing over days.

I also posted in a reply that the vehicles would have to need less repair work when first found for it to work well.

[Hydra (DayZ) 472]

"I don't recall anytime throughout history where dead people looted their own stuff, it is a game and which ever of the two choice you make with regards to looting it will be unrealistic."

According to the mod's information, each time we respawn, we take control of a new character.

[IndyAM 48]

I have discussed the idea of not being able to loot your own stuff before, but it isn't feasible in the mods current form. It would have to be a standalone thing, I'm try to improve the current mod. You keep talking about realism, but I don't recall anytime throughout history where dead people looted their own stuff, it is a game and which ever of the two choice you make with regards to looting it will be unrealistic.

Basically, when you die, you become someone new. This means you can loot your own body. Why would Rocket test your awful suggestions rather than work on the standalone? Particularly when there are much better ones with no downsides.

You have quoted rocket as saying the game should be brutal, is having all your gear back 5 minutes after you die without having to do anything brutal? Yes there is a social experiment element to it but literally anything a designer does will control how the game is played, nothing can ever be truly sandbox. And if the social experiment is to let the kids of the internet go wild in a playground with no rules even I could tell you what will happen, and I won't need to design a mod to do it.

Generally, you can't get your stuff back after 5 minutes. The person who killed you took your stuff, and you spawn a distance away. Occasionally you get a lucky spawn. This is as close to a sandbox as possible, and why should we not run around with rules? Who decides the rules? You? Why? Where do you end the rules?

Your suggestions are ridiculous, and note what little support you would have from the other comments. Please re-think, and tell the ladies and gentlemen how it would be beneficial other than "We need rules because I keep getting killed and am too incompetent to find decent weapons/tents/vehicles".

Edited September 24, 2012 by IndyAM

[schrapple 119]

It would just be stupid for a person to be unable to loot another body, but I agree that the inability to loot your own body from a previous life is a bit better.

I agree that being unable to loot your own stuff would be the best option but it isn't possible with the mod. What I'm saying is that unlootable bodies is the better of two bad options.

[IndyAM 48]

I agree that being unable to loot your own stuff would be the best option but it isn't possible with the mod. What I'm saying is that unlootable bodies is the better of two bad options.

No it isn't.

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

I've said it before and threads like this convince I am right, "The players shouldn't make design choices, and Rocket shouldn't be influanced by them." (Players or their suggestions)

*Disclaimer* I am not saying every suggestion is bad. I am not saying he (Rocket) shouldn't draw from suggestions. But what I am saying is we (the players) make terrible game design choices as a whole. We don't care how it effects anyone else or the core of the game. We are a short sighted lot and should be ignored 99% of the time. (when making suggestions to game design of the game we are playing)

[schrapple 119]

Basically, when you die, you become someone new. This means you can loot your own body. Why would Rocket test your awful suggestions rather than work on the standalone? Particularly when there are much better ones with no downsides.

Generally, you can't get your stuff back after 5 minutes. The person who killed you took your stuff, and you spawn a distance away. Occasionally you get a lucky spawn. This is as close to a sandbox as possible, and why should we not run around with rules? Who decides the rules? You? Why? Where do you end the rules?

Your suggestions are ridiculous, and note what little support you would have from the other comments. Please re-think, and tell the ladies and gentlemen how it would be beneficial other than "We need rules because I keep getting killed and am too incompetent to find decent weapons/tents/vehicles".

Once again you have used plenty of "awfuls" and "rediculouses" with no substance, All you have contributed is pointless mud flinging.

Why is it I am trying to impose my rules and appoint myself a dictator by posing a question but you are not when rebutting it? The simple point is this, everyone will try and tailor game play to what suits them. The problem is that genuine advances are prevented from seeing the light of day by people with a vested interest in seeing things carry on the way they are, why? Because these people enjoy using exploits and back dooring the system to give themselves an advantage, they don't want to see a level playing ground.

[venthos 605]

These are pretty poor ideas, and your retaliatory replies to people contesting your ideas are trite and inaccurate. You claim the first guy was using "catch phrases" in his reply (there were none) and then tell someone else to "not hide under Rocket's skirt" when he cites he wants Rocket's vision to come forth and not your own personal vision. You have absolutely no capacity to take criticism, so I have no idea why you made this thread.

To address the ideas:

Unlootable bodies - As has been stated, not everyone kills for loot. This would primarily punish new/ungeared players trying to gear up. It's also a very petty and childish whine that "people want to kill me for my things :(". Yes, as would happen in a survivor scenario. I understand 100% realism wouldn't be fun (we'd have one life per CD Key, after all). But the core mechanics of this game are "post-apocalyptic survival" and you're talking about tearing out one of the core mechanics of the game -- gathering gear through buildings OR people. This "feature" makes no sense.

Vehicle resets - I agree with your sentiment, but 1 hour is ridiculous. It takes many hours to even repair a vehicle in the first place. No one would spend the better part of a day to get a vehicle going only to lose it after having to log for the night a few hours later. Anti-hoard features are something worth experimenting with, though. In my own custom DayZ mod I'm tweaking I will have something similar to this. I am not sure of the specific mechanic, but I am thinking of having a decay time on the vehicle from the time it's moved away from its initial spawn. Something like 1-2 weeks. Every time you get into the vehicle a message would loosely indicate its state within the decay timer. "This vehicle is in fair condition" "This vehicle is starting to exhibit problems" "This vehicle looks like it could expire any day now". This would at least make repairing vehicles worth it, but always keep people looking for new vehicle spawns.

Tents die when you die - You're solving the wrong problem. Tents as a mechanic aren't a problem. Tents that permit duping and duping in general are a problem. Solve the tent dupe problem and tents are just fine. If you manage to amass tents of decent gear that can't be duped, more power to you. If tents die when you die, then you've removed a large reason for having tents. There isn't enough variance in gear types to require you "rearm at the tents". For food/drink/medical supplies it's rarely more advantageous to run to your tents vs. the nearest town. Again here I understand the sentiment, but you're solving the wrong problem here.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Venthos

[uncut49@hotmail.com 3]

Man people are opinionated about this topic lol. I'll try to give an unbiased review on these suggestions as that's what I believe this post was intended to facilitate for. I think this game was created with the intention of immersing the player in a game that simulates reality as closely as possible, to this end I think that tent's dying when you die is a good idea, realistically you can't simply know where secret stashes of weapons and ammo are located. Rather than vehicle re-spawns every hour make many working vehicles available and make petrol a rarity. It's difficult to believe that when the zombie apocalypse started everyone immediately jumped into their cars and crashed them all. Instead of looting bodies I think booby traps are more appropriate, (of course they would need to be found) and would destroy all gear and unsuspecting bandits and their gear along with it, also make the success rate for disarming the trap a percentage depending on the materials used. While clans would simply not use booby traps to avoid their gear being destroyed it would slightly lessen player killing for gear if it meant loosing their gear as well.