Re: Spawning without a Weapon - Reality Check

[WilkyWilks 44]

In response to many of the people voting in this thread:

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10806

(I created a new thread as I felt many of the responses in that thread were too short to really create an informative discourse on the issues relevant to new characters and how this effects them. Delete the thread if need be :) ).

It seems a majority are voting no due to the inherent fear of bandits with better weaponry patrolling along the coast and killing new players. While understandable, I'll note a few things:

-Most bandits who simply murder along the coast, often are using a makarov and procuring the ammunition from the starting player murders. This would actually create LESS opportunity for them to go on a murder spree.

-Players who have traveled north and come back down with high powered weaponry, and new players not being able to fight back is an inevitability, and there is little chance that you would likely be able to drop them with the makarov anyway. Avoidance has always been the key.

-Wheres your sense of adventure and the thrill of being you versus the world?

[thomas.bowyer@hotmail.co.uk 25]

to be fair, its a pointless act.

the key is survival. I say 1 bandage. 1 beans, 1 canteen. nothing more.

it removes the point/purpose in killing a fresh spawn.. and it would even let some of them meet up without panic killing one another! creating oppurtunities for teamwork

furthermore, its not worth a well geared player killing and drawing attention to themselves (maybe with this possible new heartbeat thing, make it raise high/fast if you kill an unarmed player.) -

if you have friends who can travel down and meet you/give you things? great. thats teamwork. if you have to sneak into cherno and hunt for things? thats great too, maybe youll find some beans. and then come across a guy who has water yet needs food. and... there you have more teamwork..

[guidez 180]

(I created a new thread as I felt many of the responses in that thread were too short to really create an informative discourse on the issues relevant to new characters and how this effects them. Delete the thread if need be :) ).

The problem with "informative discourse" is that it generally leads to flame wars.

[frankhertz 2]

Many people kill for no reason.

[rafaellorena 0]

i like the ideia... not because the killing, but for the imersion into the world

[Ahris 6]

I think you shouldn't have anything but bandages, not even a backpack really.

Noone carries around all that stuff in everyday life, bandages can be made from your clothes though.

As far as food and water is concerned, you never spawn far enough from a place where you can find some before you starve, it would force you to get into the smaller villages and farms and it would make zombies a threat rather than the annoyance they are now, even indoors as you can't let yourself get cornered without gear. :)

[WilkyWilks 44]

I'd say players should spawn with a backpack/satchel, as almost every household has one. They're something most folks don't throw out as their continually useful and don't wear down from a lack of use.

[leo235 2]

generally I find the no weapons proposal nice, but I think it will really decrease fun. Personally I would be for a crossbow on spawn ( a bow would be more realistic, but meh) or more random gear ( massive suicides until sniper rifle in gear)

definitely less ammo though and no beans.

[Deuzerre 64]

I'd love it if we started with no weapon, only the small Czetch pouch, and the bare minimum:

- Czetch

- 1 bandage (without weapons, dying to a random zed hit bleeding you to death would ruin it).

- 1 soda (Not a refillable item. Those have to be found)

- 1 can (sardines, whatever).

Nothing else.

This would compensate for sometimes troublesome to find food, prevent people from living off a nearly infinite water supply, and allow one unlucky hit from a zed/hostile, while the bag has to be upgraded but still gives a low silhouette.

[fackstah 31]

even if ppl abuse and kill new players it will wane after a while cuz who like hunting a dehydrated turtle thats on its back even if you find taht fun its fun will disipate when there is not thrill of a good hunt or accomplishment

[ParaB 114]

I'd love it if we started with no weapon' date=' only the small Czetch pouch, and the bare minimum:

- Czetch

- 1 bandage (without weapons, dying to a random zed hit bleeding you to death would ruin it).

- 1 soda (Not a refillable item. Those have to be found)

- 1 can (sardines, whatever).

Nothing else.

This would compensate for sometimes troublesome to find food, prevent people from living off a nearly infinite water supply, and allow one unlucky hit from a zed/hostile, while the bag has to be upgraded but still gives a low silhouette.

[/quote']

/this

[Deathstruck 0]

What the hell is Czetch? :P

[Castle (DayZ) 23]

I think you shouldn't have anything but bandages' date=' not even a backpack really.

Noone carries around all that stuff in everyday life, bandages can be made from your clothes though.

As far as food and water is concerned, you never spawn far enough from a place where you can find some before you starve, it would force you to get into the smaller villages and farms and it would make zombies a threat rather than the annoyance they are now, even indoors as you can't let yourself get cornered without gear. :)

[/quote']

This isn't every day life though. The apocalypse struck a long time ago, you were immune AND survived long enough to make it to the coast.

[Blaise 1]

Why did my character go to the coast? I always get away from there asap!

[Tubby McChubbles 0]

You can only really get rid of starter weapons when there are no issues left with losing zombies who are chasing you. Otherwise we would just have a stream of new spawns sprinting all along the map away from zombies, without time to pick up a weapon.

[Deuzerre 64]

What the hell is Czetch? :P

In my language, we say "Tchekoslovakie", so I tend to put a T in the name ><. It meant the Czech vest.

[el mariachi 10]

I don't care as much about getting spawned camp at the coast. It's a valid concern though, and I can see people doing it just to be spiteful.

Personally I look at it another way. The makarov is a crap ass weapon that everyone learns that is a weapon as a last resort. Now someone wants to take that away. I think its stupid. It's like rocket learned the wrong lesson about Chekov's Gun.

I also think that the people who think this game should be 'harder' are misguided.

You are all mistaking difficulty for gameplay.

Meaning that you think by making the game more difficult, it gives you more things to do.

Wrong.

It just makes it so it takes longer to sneak around zombies to find beans.

So, the problem isn't the game being 'too easy', its you.

There's one of two things that you're doing wrong:

1. You aren't taking any risks in the game to accomplish anything other than finding beans and/or living.

If you're just going to rinse/repeat that a billion times, of course you'd think the game is too easy because you aren't doing a damned thing at all in the game.

2. You think that by making it more difficult, it will make the game better.

Making zombies more difficult just makes the zombies more difficult, at the end of the day you're still just doing the same things. Taking away items and weapons just makes it take longer to get items and weapons. You aren't doing anything new, and nothing new has been added to the game. It just gives you more things to manage instead of doing things in the game.

Personally, I want to do things in this game. Focusing on the survival aspect of this game will be its death knell. It's one thing to have survival as a part of the game, its another thing to make it entirely the game.

[Deuzerre 64]

What do you do with a makarov?

You shoot when you've been detected by zeds, aggroing more zeds, or you kill players with a better loot in a trigger happy way. There is also the epic "Run out of town, turn around, shoot till all the followers are dead."

Basically, you don't use the weapon for good reasons before you find better guns.

Spawning with no weapon would make the start harder, but also help a lot with atmosphere. That's the gameplay reason why it shouldn't be there. It would be a reminder of the tough start, where infiltration is key.

Removing the guns initially with the change to Zed behavior that's been said will come would totally work: No gun doesn't mean benny hill running. It means running, and losing the zeds. Fear for the life.

First loot would have to be picked from Zed infested areas. nof from the dead body of the guy that did it a few seconds ago.

Saying that focusing on the survivor bit of the alpha will bring it downhill is... moronic. it's the basis of the game.

[aragos 1]

--random spawning of new players, near a random village or town, not just on the beach.

--increased # of hunting knives, etc. to allow people to kill food to survive or increased # of food cans in houses, etc.

--ability to kill animals w/o a gun, but also smarter 'moving' animals (few wild boar will just stand there) that may attack.

--bottom line: using the current system, being without a weapon at start means a zerg rush to the nearest grocery store or military camp. first one there gets the guns n' beans. everybody else dies.

[salty (DayZ) 39]

*snip*

My thoughts exactly.

I'd also like to spawn without a backpack. It'd make things just a little more difficult, and Czech vest pouches may actually see some use. :D

[zak757 146]

If bandits along the coast are using Makarov's and the ammo from dead players, then new starters are evenly matched against them. Kill them yourself or don't run along the coast like an idiot. Do some training in ARMA if you must.

[Yammazul 0]

YES

I support this. Its more realistic, its a drastic change which the only kind of change that could properly address the current "deathmatching".

Pro:

Fresh spawns shooting anyone they see since they have have nothing to lose will be a thing of the past.

Makes sense to team up with another survivor who has a gun if you are unarmed.

Trust will return in general on the beaches, you wont fear what cant kill you, co-op play will return, without nerfing the PvP for those that want it.

Bandits are drawn to beach spawn Makarov fire, no pistols, no gunfire, Bandits have a harder time tracking players.

Con:

No defense for fresh spawns against bandit campers along the coast.

IMO pros outwiegh cons, people fear change Rocket and may even resist it, dispite it being for the overall good of the game. You probably suggested this because you, at the very least, dont think its a terrible idea. Try not to let people sway your judgement on this one, you have a good idea, it is worth trying out, nothing to stop you removing it if it doesnt work in the end.

[Never 237]

Whats the old phrase?

'GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE DO.'

In this case that rings true.

I thought rocket wanted this game to be sandbox? By removing starting weapons all choice for you is removed until you find a gun. It actually FORCES people into a conflict because every new spawns going to head towards the closestloot spawn and hey guess what'll happen? Most likely some wanker with a gun sat there giggling as he takes potshots at defenseless fuckers.

For example. YOU CAN'T EVEN KILL THAT BANDIT YOU FIND CAMPING IN A HEDGE BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT? You haven't got a gun.

[zak757 146]

You are all mistaking difficulty for gameplay.

Meaning that you think by making the game more difficult' date=' it gives you more things to do.

Wrong.

It just makes it so it takes longer to sneak around zombies to find beans.

So, the problem isn't the game being 'too easy', its you.

There's one of two things that you're doing wrong:

1. You aren't taking any risks in the game to accomplish anything other than finding beans and/or living.

If you're just going to rinse/repeat that a billion times, of course you'd think the game is too easy [b']because you aren't doing a damned thing at all in the game.

2. You think that by making it more difficult, it will make the game better.

Making zombies more difficult just makes the zombies more difficult, at the end of the day you're still just doing the same things. Taking away items and weapons just makes it take longer to get items and weapons. You aren't doing anything new, and nothing new has been added to the game. It just gives you more things to manage instead of doing things in the game.

Personally, I want to do things in this game. Focusing on the survival aspect of this game will be its death knell. It's one thing to have survival as a part of the game, its another thing to make it entirely the game.

I have wanted to say this in every suggestion thread, but couldn't put it into words.

Agree completely.

[Refried 14]

Whats the old phrase?

'GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE' date=' PEOPLE DO.'

YOU CAN'T EVEN KILL THAT BANDIT YOU FIND CAMPING IN A HEDGE BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT? You haven't got a gun.

[/quote']

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that

any of you that really thinks spawning weaponless will fix your 'dying to players' problem are completely delusional