The Hive - We Want Support, Not Permission

[guidez 180]

If the DayZ Development team officially supported Private Servers in addition to Public Servers, would you choose to host a Private or Public hive server?

The question here is not whether or not rocket condones and approves of private hives (he does), but rather why they are not officially SUPPORTED (developed) by the devs. Everyone’s eyes are currently focused on the bugs, issues, and hacks occurring in DayZ, as well as the upcoming features. I can assure you though, once DayZ is “finished”, the public hive will be the largest glaring issue with DayZ, and by then it will probably be too late.

Let’s take a quick over-view of the Pros and Cons of both hive types:

Public Hive:

Pros:

- If your favorite server goes down, you can simply jump onto another server and still have your gear

- I actually have no other Pros: Please supply me with some and I will update this

Cons:

- Administrators have little to almost no control over their server

- The devs have to police the servers, since clans could lock down a server and hoard their gear, then noob kill on another

- The hive goes down, NO servers work

- A lot of bandwidth overhead. Not only do users have to make connections to your server, your server has to makes connections to a central server

- Server hopping can never be fixed, so whether it’s hopping for gear or getting around barricades, the public hive allows it. This is one of the biggest issues for end game, which experienced players can get to VERY quickly.

Private Hive:

Pros:

- Administrators have some more control

- Characters only exist on that one server: No server hopping for gear or easy kills

- Can whitelist/password protect their server, minimizing/eliminating hackers. Since a clan would get easily bored with no ability to server hop, they would have to allow other players on or their server will die from boredom

- Database backups. Hacker messed up your server? Recover your automatically backed up database! (biggest win IMO)

- A LOT less bandwidth overhead. The database is local to your server, so not only do you not exceed your monthly limit but you also have FASTER and MORE RELIABLE responses from the local hive/database. My users log into my server in 10-90 seconds worldwide.

Cons

- Some would say that private hives ruin the core or image or idea that rocket had for DayZ, but please read-on

A lot of the plans for Standalone DayZ seem pointless to me. Why bother with “shoring up” a building / doorway, if I can simply server hop to another server? Why should I even bother making an entrenched camp, if someone can just hop over the non-existing barricades on another server? Games like World of Warcraft don’t allow you jump your character to another server (without a tedious server transfer process), so why can we do it in DayZ?

To ease the support-ability of private hives, the devs could create a “private hive image”, one that server owners could download along with DayZ updates. This database could be locked down, with only certain fields allowed for customizations. For example, altering the weather or time of day would be allowed, but everything else would be locked down, so the core image of DayZ stays the way that Public Hives were, with the exception of all the Pros that Private brings.

I had originally started this argument with the ability for private servers to customize whatever they want, but I believe customizations should actually still be limited, even on private servers. My private hive runs as vanilla as possible, with the exception of insta-kill on trying to go off-map and a customized day/night cycle, governed by my private hive community.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Guidez

[Legacy (DayZ) 1091]

[BigWurm 13]

I think the private hive serves a purpose now but not sure if it will after the full release.

[guidez 180]

It burns!!!

[Max Planck 7174]

I fully support the private hive concept, as we don't have the resources to manage the central hive at its peak of usage. Now that usage of the central server has dropped considerably, we can handle the load. Private hives are much better for being able to focus our efforts on develop and not have to conduct database maintenance all the time. Ander et al have done a very commendable job trying to keep things running, and it has not been easy for them.

[terex 322]

Private hive, more control over the server on what goes on. At least for the time being.

[guidez 180]

I think the private hive serves a purpose now but not sure if it will after the full release.

What will make full release any different? The same cons will apply to a "full" release of DayZ as it does to today. Private hives still have the core bugs and issues that public hive servers do.

But to name a few benefits that you will never have in a "full" version of DayZ public hive:

- No server hopping for gear (you can only impose so many mitigation's for this)

- No server hopping from fights, or hopping on a alternative server to sneak up on someone on a primary server

- You can let your player-community decide what they want out of their server (see http://theguidez.com/forums )

Rocket answered a question regarding shoring up doorways: What is the point of shoring up a doorway to a building if someone can just hop on another server?

[guidez 180]

rocket, on 19 September 2012 - 03:56 AM, said:

I fully support the private hive concept,

That is great and all, but like I mentioned (in a round about way), only the concept is supported. Break away from the whole central server idea altogether. Develop a PRIVATE server hive, so that us private hoster's don't have to wait for a third party developer to design a new database.

When dogs come out, I know for a fact that it's going to take weeks past the 1.7.3 release for a third party to create a new private hive/database. In fact, a new database needs to be created for almost every update. Private servers like mine find it hard to provide our users a playable experience when they have to start from scratch every update.

I had actually never even heard of a central hive or database used in this way before, if at all. It's understandable that DayZ was never planned to be this popular, so that's why central was used. But take a look at, say, World of Warcraft. You play on ONE server, and though you can get your character server transferred, there is no way for you to "server hop". Your character and STORY exists on one server.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Guidez

[Max Planck 7174]

I had actually never even heard of a central hive or database used in this way before, if at all. It's understandable that DayZ was never planned to be this popular, so that's why central was used. But take a look at, say, World of Warcraft. You play on ONE server, and though you can get your character server transferred, there is no way for you to "server hop". Your character and STORY exists on one server.

Eve Online does it similar, but bigger.

[guidez 180]

Eve Online does it similar, but bigger.

I'll admit I've never played Eve, but from what I am reading, changes on a server affect all servers in the "universe". If, say, shoring up your base in US111 also shored up your building in US222, then I would be all for a public hive. But we won't ever have that, will we? The gameplay of DayZ is so unique and open for possibilities that it makes too much overhead for a persistent world between servers.

[venthos 605]

Rocket has already stated in no uncertain terms that he condones and prefers Private servers. The reason stated (in that thread) is that it means the hive doesn't get as loaded and they don't have to worry about it as much.

Basically, do whatever you want -- private or public. It's all good.

/thread

[guidez 180]

Rocket has already stated in no uncertain terms that he condones and prefers Private servers. The reason stated (in that thread) is that it means the hive doesn't get as loaded and they don't have to worry about it as much.

Basically, do whatever you want -- private or public. It's all good.

/thread

Brought up earlier, but again: It's a LONG way from "condoning and preferring" to "supporting". My private hive community has asked me: How long will you keep this server up and running? And, quite sadly, I tell them "No idea". That's because I don't know how long until the private hive developer gives up and someone (if anyone) takes up his work.

Official support means I can tell my community: "Until you get sick of it"

Edited September 19, 2012 by Guidez

[torturedchunk 22]

I continue to stick with the public servers for one main reason.

It is the core of what DayZ is.

Lingor, Utes, Takistan. That's great you have more maps to play on now. The problem I have with the private hives, most aren't DayZ at all. Servers with 80+ vehicles, way too high loot spawns, extreme low damage to vehicles, etc. I know this isn't every server out there, but the majority I see are.

Where is the adventure? The Story? So you can jump an SUV 500m and drive away. You can spend hours at the race track, racing and jumping helicopters. Sounds like a hilarious time for youtubers and streamers. I bet you get a lot of views. Want some beans?

I have a friend who loves Lingor. He was telling me that he was just doing some laps around a race track. I asked him if you wanted to race, why not play a racing game? I never got an answer.

I guess it's not for everyone.

I have no plans for ever playing on these private hives because I enjoy making my own adventure. I like surviving! You don't survive on these overpowered private hives. You play. Welcome to Call of DayZ.

[guidez 180]

I continue to stick with the public servers for one main reason.

It is the core of what DayZ is.

Lingor, Utes, Takistan. That's great you have more maps to play on now. The problem I have with the private hives, most aren't DayZ at all. Servers with 80+ vehicles, way too high loot spawns, extreme low damage to vehicles, etc. I know this isn't every server out there, but the majority I see are.

Where is the adventure? The Story? So you can jump an SUV 500m and drive away. You can spend hours at the race track, racing and jumping helicopters. Sounds like a hilarious time for youtubers and streamers. I bet you get a lot of views. Want some beans?

I have a friend who loves Lingor. He was telling me that he was just doing some laps around a race track. I asked him if you wanted to race, why not play a racing game? I never got an answer.

I guess it's not for everyone.

I have no plans for ever playing on these private hives because I enjoy making my own adventure. I like surviving! You don't survive on these overpowered private hives. You play. Welcome to Call of DayZ.

What's stopping you from running a private server the way the Dev's want a public server run?

[torturedchunk 22]

What's stopping you from running a private server the way the Dev's want a public server run?

Nothing. I guess I was just stating that most private servers are over powered and that detracts my interest.

What makes the difference in running a private server if it runs just like the public?

[guidez 180]

Nothing. I guess I was just stating that most private servers are over powered and that detracts my interest.

What makes the difference in running a private server if it runs just like the public?

Database backups (restore on hacker incident)

Events for your community

Customization (User's on my server cannot leave the map boundaries. They insta-die if they try. No off-map hoarding)

The database backups are a big thing: I only restore on global incidents (I run a whitelist server, so we have had no hackers), but should we have an incident, users will only lose X amount of progress, where X is how often you backup the DB (I do it hourly).

*edit*

I actually run DayZ as vanilla as possible on my private server. The map boundary and Day-time for both American and European users are basically the only changes I have made.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Guidez

[guidez 180]

I guess another question could be (and would love this to be answered): What is the biggest benefit to a central database/hive over a private hive? We don't have some sort of global economy going (EVE Online), so why even have a central server?

It is easier to manage and support a Central Database I suppose, but you could just as easily say "dev's only support untouched private databases" to avoid the kids complaining about corrupted DBs.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Guidez

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

I'd host a private hive but only if it was whitelisted.

[guidez 180]

That's a good subject in itself as well: Since the central server is used by all, the Dev's have to police the servers. So no whitelisting, no password protecting, etc. It makes sense why you have to do that today: A clan go gear up on a protected server, then cause noob grief all over the non-protected servers, the return to the safety of their server.

Since private hives mean that your character ONLY resides on that one server, there shouldn't be a need to police the servers nor even restrict the whitelisting/password protecting of a server.

Take a look at minecraft servers: A lot of the ones that are the most successful are those with restrictive gates (ie; Whitelist, password, etc) in place.

The central hive could still exist, but I'd say it would be better off with something akin to Valve public servers, where some wide open servers are hosted by Bohemia, but any private hosted servers are private hives.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Guidez

[torturedchunk 22]

"Database backups (restore on hacker incident)"

A good feature for a private hive. However, this feature only appeals to me on the Server specific items. Vehicles, Tents Etc. Also, I see this as a major way of possible admin abuse.

*Admin Logs into Camp*

*Where is the Chopper?*

*Admin rolls back server, deleting X amount of ALL player progress on that server*

Granted there is abuse now on the public hive with restarts and I wont deny that, but at least I don't lose any progress for my character.

"Events for your community"

Other than locking your server for giveaways or whatever event you may plan, how does this differ from a public hive?

"Customization (User's on my server cannot leave the map boundaries. They insta-die if they try. No off-map hoarding)"

Too much customization can be a bad thing as well.

I'm not trying to flame, private hives just aren't my cup of tea.

[guidez 180]

I have updated the first post to be more informative of what I am looking for here. Thinking about it, I am actually against a lot of customization's myself, especially considering that I run a vanilla-esque server.

And yes, DB Backups COULD be used as a admin abuse tool, but so could so many other things. But admin abuse will exist on a server, REGARDLESS of what restrictions are in place. It's the people that are the problem, not what they have the capability to do. Restricting what admins can do does nothing to eliminate admin abuse: It just makes it harder for them.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Guidez

[hawc 63]

Well at some point you have to trust someone to operate the server.

[thewardogkatana@gmail.com 5]

I personally prefer private hives to public hives, for all the specified reasons above, as well as the community. A Private whitelisted server has a community unlike many others. Everyone knows everyone, and stories and betrayal can cascade with a fluidity that just doesn't jell on a public server where everyone is a random. From my personal experience on the server that Guides Himself runs there is no admin abuse of the server. In fact he actually prefers the harsh brutality of death, and loss of product, even if its him that gets the rough end. Its what makes it fun, at least on our server.

Then there are the possibilities for events, like Hunger games, or other random fun things that mix up our standard playstyles and get us just goofing off with the community before returning back where we left off in the dark depth of the real, brutal DayZ.

I personally will never play on a public server again after playing on the private hive. I just don't enjoy public anymore.

[venthos 605]

I don't think DayZ Mod will ever be officially supported and developed for the private hive community. I could be dead wrong, of course, but it would involve too much development time taken from standalone and even more time supporting it. I just can't see that as a realistic or even logical step forward.

What does make sense is what it seems like Rocket will do, slowly relinquish control of it to the community. I could even see him turning down "The Hive" and just letting the community do with it what they will. I could see a small group of people stepping up to run the Community Hive in its stead to give some semblance of the former Hive. At that point, not even the current public hive servers would be "supported". That's how I see this going down, and how I'd want this to go down. I don't want Rocket stepping back, I want him driving forward while "looking back" to what we're doing with the mod as a community for testing and ideas.

That frees up all DayZ resources to drive forward with DayZ Standalone, while letting people play with the mod and potentially test/experiment with ideas they want to see in standalone. To me, if we start "officially supporting" anything (public or private) past DayZ Standalone release we're just holding back DayZ and delaying ourselves getting new features more quickly.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Venthos

[straw 5]

you join a server fuck up the whole admin camp & steal all vehicles......hive rollback.

server doesnt spawn enough as50's - tweak the hive

admin doesnt want other people to get military loot - tweak the hive

all your work lies in the hand of an admin - I would rent my own server if hives go private as everyone would do because it gives you all the power, players would spread over all the servers...

central hive is awesome since I can join my fiends on any server and dont need to spent 20h to collect all the stuff

my worst game experiences were on public hive servers like lingor & takistan