Churches & Repentance

[mdmonnik@deakin.edu.au 139]

I really like this idea!! Beans for you!

[3361 1]

Being religious shouldn't give you an advantage in this game, not IMO anyways. Yeah, I have no problem with adding the prayer feature, but it should not help you in any way what so ever! Also, add Mosques, Hindu Temples, Buddhist temples, Jewish Temples, and whatever else there is, Let religious people pray, but it shouldn't give them an advantage, It's not like it gives you an advantage in real life.

If praying makes you feel better, do it. But others will still see you as the bandit you are.

[heliman (DayZ) 26]

I could do without the trophies

Right about the trophies which I haven't talked much about. So as a bandit you would need to gather trophies from your victims rather than just wait on sniper hill and pick off targets. If someone else gets to the corpse before you do chances are they may bury the corpse before you can gather a trophy from your victim. Initially if you fail to gather a trophy from your victim, this would cause some level of anguish with your character in such a way that you would need to make up for that trophy by hunting more victims. For every lost opportunity to gather a trophy from your victim, you would need to compensate by 2 fold. The effects don't really settle in after perhaps a day or two. But this would only be for the first trophy lost. Losing more trophies of your victims will eventually cause the effects to settle in more rapidly (e.g. 1day, 18hrs, 14hrs etc..). Failing to gather trophies would eventually lead to suicide. The trophies of your victims would need to be carried with you for some time. But you may ask since this would burden your inventory eventually, so how would this work? Well the trophies of your latest victims perhaps the first 3-4 would be carried with you at all times. If you failed along the way on a particular trophy hunt then you would need to compensate for that with trophies from the latest 4-5 victims. Losing more trophies would eventually further burden your inventory with a chance that your latest victim trophies don't provide you much comfort from the effects. Perhaps it could be the 19th victim that removes the strife from the character. So what can you do about it. In this case if you are certain you have lost a fair number trophies from your victims, then whatever trophies you have gathered would need to stashed in a safe place (e.g. tent). If you feel the effects settling in even when you have gathered more trophies and carry them along with you, then you would have to go back to your tent and pick the trophy that eventually removes the anguish from your character.

Edited September 20, 2012 by heliman

[SystemiK 366]

^ Good lord, is your idea so bad it requires a giant bucket of orange paint to highlight the wall of text? It was bad enough that you ran out of paragraphs but the orange hurts my eyes. Not reading it.

[Bribase 251]

I could do without the trophies, but it's not a bad idea.

You could make it where if your humanity falls below 0 you have a limited time to seek "forgiveness" at a nearby church to prevent becoming a bandit.

In the same way that praying for forgiveness works IRL. You aren't really being forgiven; you are appealing to magic in order to find a way to forgive yourself. And just like IRL, your reputation for doing wrong and your debt to society is not payed because you asked baby Jesus to let you off. As in real life it should be in the game. Please, take a moment to pray after killing someone. Just don't expect it to do anything other than make you feel better about the harm you caused.

As it is truly said, there are no atheists in war.

http://militaryatheists.org

[birdman 108]

To quote from the "rocket said. . . " post. I believe this is absolutely in context.

"Whatever the system, I think the golden rule is that it should support the way you want to play with your character, not make any kind of judgement or anything, and not force you to play a particular way . . ."

That being said, I'm Christian, but no game needs to make anyone accept any religious ethos, practice or tradition. You see gods in God of War because it is about those the greek dieties. This zombie "game" has nothing to do with religion. It is about survival, whether team oriented or solo, against an infected enemy who has no morals and a community free to act as they please outside of the social norms of the "real world". Pray on top of your keyboard if you want, don't tell a player his humanity can't recede unless he humbles himself to a higher power that he may or may not believe in. If you force a player-character to pray you ask for a front page Yahoo! article on how this game is forcing religion on our kids. It is not worth the fight. I would rather dissapear in this game for a few glorious hours of fantasy and worry about my everlasting soul, work and my bills when I come out.

How else can this be stressed?

[terrvik 2409]

To quote from the "rocket said. . . " post. I believe this is absolutely in context.

"Whatever the system, I think the golden rule is that it should support the way you want to play with your character, not make any kind of judgement or anything, and not force you to play a particular way . . ."

That being said, I'm Christian, but no game needs to make anyone accept any religious ethos, practice or tradition. You see gods in God of War because it is about those the greek dieties. This zombie "game" has nothing to do with religion. It is about survival, whether team oriented or solo, against an infected enemy who has no morals and a community free to act as they please outside of the social norms of the "real world". Pray on top of your keyboard if you want, don't tell a player his humanity can't recede unless he humbles himself to a higher power that he may or may not believe in. If you force a player-character to pray you ask for a front page Yahoo! article on how this game is forcing religion on our kids. It is not worth the fight. I would rather dissapear in this game for a few glorious hours of fantasy and worry about my everlasting soul, work and my bills when I come out.

How else can this be stressed?

Thank you.

[deadlykenny 37]

if anything you should pray like this:

Our rocket, Who art in Bohemia, hallowed by thy name, Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, As earth as it is in coding, Give us this day our daily beans, and forgive us of our murders, as we forgive those who Plot against us, Lead us not into scripting, But deliver us from hackers,

Amen.

Just something I thought about :3

[deadlykenny 37]

if anything you should pray like this:

Our rocket, Who art in Bohemia, hallowed by thy name, Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, As earth as it is in coding, Give us this day our daily beans, and forgive us of our murders, as we forgive those who Plot against us, Lead us not into scripting, But deliver us from hackers,

Amen.

Just something I thought about :3

Edited September 20, 2012 by kenny29

[deadlykenny 37]

Urm, what the?, is my text got a white box around it?

[heliman (DayZ) 26]

That being said, I'm Christian, but no game needs to make anyone accept any religious ethos, practice or tradition. You see gods in God of War because it is about those the greek dieties. This zombie "game" has nothing to do with religion. It is about survival, whether team oriented or solo, against an infected enemy who has no morals and a community free to act as they please outside of the social norms of the "real world". Pray on top of your keyboard if you want, don't tell a player his humanity can't recede unless he humbles himself to a higher power that he may or may not believe in. If you force a player-character to pray you ask for a front page Yahoo! article on how this game is forcing religion on our kids. It is not worth the fight. I would rather dissapear in this game for a few glorious hours of fantasy and worry about my everlasting soul, work and my bills when I come out.

Doubt you have read the orange text on page 2 since you hate the color orange I suppose. With that sort of "reasoning" let me first start with this quote from good ol' wikipedia:

Glittering generalities are emotionally appealing words so closely associated with highly-valued concepts and beliefs that they carry conviction without supporting information or reason. Such highly-valued concepts attract general approval and acclaim.

With your "logic" I could say that they should remove churches from the game cause they are forcing religion on to me. Those pictures depicting Mother Mary in the Church of Electro should never exist in game. Yet you tolerate what already exists in the game. What absurdity is this? Clearly you fail to see the idea behind the veil cause you prefer to hate on it with the slightest tick of the nerve throbbing for your desire of rejection. I believe only people like yourself can prison themselves with such absurdity. May the good lord bless your face.

[terrvik 2409]

The game is set in a country where there are churches. How's that for absurd logic?

[heliman (DayZ) 26]

The game is set in a country where there are churches. How's that for absurd logic?

I believe you were a dumb idea. :)

[birdman 108]

As I said, I am Christian, and am not trashing religion. Showing someone a picture of something (a church) doesn't force them to do it or believe in it. Having them simulate a religious act (and it being fucking mandatory, as a fucking game mechanic!) is different. . .

I'm done.

[heliman (DayZ) 26]

As I said, I am Christian, and am not trashing religion. Showing someone a picture of something (a church) doesn't force them to do it or believe in it. Having them simulate a religious act (and it being fucking mandatory, as a fucking game mechanic!) is different. . .

I'm done.

No one is being forced into believing anything its only your mind that perceives such notions.

[iashford 73]

Um, what a needless feature. While I think some form of religion could be interesting, such an exploitable feature is really just dumb. You want to have good humanity? Go save some people, help them out and help them survive. Just like in real life, sitting around on your fat ass doesn't have any positive implications, only the ones that you make yourself 'feel'. I'm not bashing religion, but my question is: if you want to be good after doing bad, why should you not have to work at being good (ie helping survivors) when you could take the lazy option by merely kneeling at a pixelated alter?

By the logic of religion, if I shoot someone in the face, I should be rewarded by simply saying a few words in what people consider to be a holy place. No, that doesn't cut it. If I kill someone, I damn well have to get dirty to earn any kind of forgiveness.

[SystemiK 366]

Heh, the thread reminded me of this old gem....I know it's a bit out of context for this thread but a little levity is always good right?

I play games to get away from all the bullshit I have to deal with in life. There is a REASON you don't see religion factoring into many game mechanics...

Edited September 21, 2012 by SystemiK

[heliman (DayZ) 26]

I'm not bashing religion, but my question is: if you want to be good after doing bad, why should you not have to work at being good (ie helping survivors) when you could take the lazy option by merely kneeling at a pixelated alter?

Cause I never suggested what you are suggesting. This is about banditry not for survivors to exploit the humanity system.

[heliman (DayZ) 26]

I play games to get away from all the bullshit I have to deal with in life. There is a REASON you don't see religion factoring into many game mechanics...

oh please... the term reason is too high of a caliber for you to be using it.

[iashford 73]

Cause I never suggested what you are suggesting. This is about banditry not for survivors to exploit the humanity system.

Enlighten me, because the biggest question I have is: How do you differentiate the difference between an exploiter and a believer? How does having a religious system in the way that you suggest add ANYTHING to the game, other then some trivial nonsensical feature for the religious? In my opinion, the problem you are trying to solve isn't for religion to get involved, there's a much more practical and reliable system, as people have suggested.

If you want to fight for religion in a post-apocalyptic situation, fine, go for gold. But when things such as politics, form over government and factions (ie religion) features are involved, I don't think the best way is to blatantly have these features automatically labelled as anything specifically. Give people the tools to be able to create things for themselves and make it mean what you want it to mean. If you want a religious community, build one in a church or whatever, recruit other religious people, call the community 'house of god' or whatever but label it Christianity on your own terms, don't let the game designate a title for you. You're trying to force religion on other people instead of giving things the meaning you want it to. I know compromise isn't the best thing to ask from highly devoted Christians/Catholics/etc. but when it comes to a game that has a large number of people from every market, you can't settle for 'my way or the highway'

[SystemiK 366]

oh please... the term reason is too high of a caliber for you to be using it.

I'm truly humbled. I do know a few other words, perhaps one of those will suit me better in the future...

[heliman (DayZ) 26]

Enlighten me, because the biggest question I have is: How do you differentiate the difference between an exploiter and a believer? How does having a religious system in the way that you suggest add ANYTHING to the game, other then some trivial nonsensical feature for the religious?

I feel I have answered most of your questions in the previous pages. However there is one question that remains as to how does the system add anything to the game. The game as it stands adds a hero skin, perhaps you may ask does it add anything to the game apart from a new skin. It feels also like some nonsensical feature implemented for survivors. Is there any point of raising your humanity to earn the hero skin, since the game as it stands is a pvp arena but having it as I had suggested gets you to think twice before you engage someone. Converts and would-be converts is a grey area which when survivors come across may begin to question their past actions and whether they truly are who they trying to be. Perhaps to further prevent exploiting such a system you could have your humanity reduced if you are ever found associating with someone with a negative humanity be it in the form of helping them out or getting too close to what would be considered as their personal space. In short

Bandits - Shoot on sight

Would-be Converts - Highly suspicious character

Converts - Converts can become would-be converts if seen associating with the above people. However if associating with bandits, they become bandits themselves. Converts can also be thought of as spies for would-be converts trying to associate themselves indirectly with a greater evil aka bandits.

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

Part of the humanity system should incorporate repentance whereby bandits would need to go a nearby church to ask for forgiveness if they are willing to have their humanity reduced. Bandits who have accepted this path of forgiveness would wear a cross. However those who don't seek repentance would eventually be stained with the blood of their crimes for the rest of their lives. This would be in the form of having to justify their killings with a trophy from their victims and having to carry it with them for the rest of their journey to remind them constantly of their past actions. Not obtaining a trophy from their victim would lead to anguish eventually having the character kill himself without consent. What you guys think of this idea?

I don't like it.

Your forcing a non religous player to wearing a cross I would find that offensive, Which, is an older symbolism and older than the church. Repentance is poor idea for a highly PVP game.

I certainly do not seek forgiveness in a game, an apology will do if one is required. How many bandits are going to want to follow your path? if they had a path to begin with they would not be bandits. the game offers a valid and proven way to allow players to change their ways. the hero skin has benefits, look it up. I would trust a complete stranger hero over any other type of player in game.

Backpacks are full of useful items no need for junk trophies. my hands will be forever stained in blood in this game as i have to defend myself. If you meant an item attached to a characters person, feel free to provide some sample models perhaps Rocket will utilise them?

By your logic a player without having a trophy will be so anguished they kill them self? without consent? It's a lame idea for a game where people survive isn't it.

it's too unworkable and pointless.

May I also state i respect anyones beliefs providing they are not promoting them when and where I dont want them.

[heliman (DayZ) 26]

I don't like it.

Your forcing a non religous player to wearing a cross I would find that offensive, Which, is an older symbolism and older than the church. Repentance is poor idea for a highly PVP game.

With this sort of grammar I prefer not to reason with individuals like yourself.

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

With this sort of grammar I prefer not to reason with individuals like yourself.

Sorry for that, It's a mobile device and has it's own mind, Unlike some.