WTF - No PVP Servers?

[Angel Knight 427]

Nice attempt at creating a straw man argument there friend. I always play legit, I have never, in all my time playing DayZ logged out during a firefight or due to imminent death.

There is no non PVP aspect of DayZ because the game itself includes PVP encounters - in fact these are what add the most tension and paranoi to the game experience.

I don't think you understand what DayZ actually is. DayZ explicitly and by definition involves PVP as well as PVZ.

Creating Non PVP servers is directly against Rocket's intent for the game how the game was designed.

If I should go and play WOW (which I have never played in my life) then perhaps you should toddle off with your non PVP mates and play minecraft in creative mode so that you never have to get out of your comfort zone.

You accuse him of a straw man and then post this crap?

[Ipurgepeople 106]

Creating non hive servers is strictly against Rockets intent for the game, period. What he can do is learn from this though. If he caters for a wider audience in standalone then he will sell more. Having a non-pvp format would allow new players into the game without struggling with that learning curve. They would also allow casual players such as myself to play the game I want to play it without having players (which at the moment is only hackers) impose upon this and force me to play their game. Or he can sell his dumbed down version of Call of Duty to the PvPers whilst failing to bring in new followers and forcing people like myself to play a no pvp dayz mod. I wont mind playing a mod version of the game anyways, tbh, it will probably get more development than Rockets current version.

This made me think of a point I'd like to elaborate on a bit more. It was briefly touched earlier on, but I feel it desires more attention.

From what I can tell here, most of us who are alright with the non-PVP aspect of the game are that way because of the kill on sight (or COD-style) mentality. Personally, if I felt that I had a CHANCE of seeing someone and NOT getting killed instantly, I'd go and try to make friendly. Perhaps offer some beans, or a transfusion. Problem is, because of the majority of players holding a KoS mentality, it forces us friendly players into one of three groups:

1. Conforming the the general public's "KOS" mentality and/or becoming a bandit like everyone else
   
2. Spend more time dead and on loading screens than time alive since you won't kill someone who does you no harm
   
3. Move to low-pop, no-pop, or no-PVP servers to lower the chances of getting murdered while taking a bathroom break while hidden in a tree
   

This is the pattern I've seen. Most of these "friendly" players will start off as friendly, but after a few days of being killed by literally every single person they encounter, they will adapt, and go with the flow of banditry. The select few that don't are either those casual carebears who will absolutely not kill anyone, and those (like me) who simply choose to lower the chances of running into someone in order to play how they want to play.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Ipurgepeople

[sostronk 334]

Rocket has made it clear many times that he is not interested in making DayZ 'accessible' or easier, the fact that he removed morphine, the makarov, beans etc from starting equipment makes that pretty clear.

Yeah but your listing game components that are rediculously easy once youve played the game for a week or two. All of the survival components in this game are absurdly easy. The loot tables are way to generous right across the board. Theres too much food, water, weapons and ammo. Zeds barely slow you down. This I agree with Rocket (although I think his intent is to make the game easier in the long run than how I want it to be). The problem is the only threat in the game right now is players and more so hackers. And there is so much incentive to PvP and no drawbacks that what you end up with in Dayz is a lame Call of Duty: Cherno Deathmatch with players who have stuff camping the coast killing anyone they can. I believe they actually need to make the "PvE" components significantly hard, making loot drops much more rare and lower rates, Zombies to be much harder to deal with and alot more of them. What your pointing out are PVE componenents, which casual players want. Right now its lacking and absurdly easy.

Edited September 14, 2012 by sostronk

[Ipurgepeople 106]

Yeah but your listing game components that are rediculously easy once youve played the game for a week or two. All of the survival components in this game are absurdly easy. The loot tables are way to generous right across the board. Theres too much food, water, weapons and ammo. Zeds barely slow you down. This I agree with Rocket (although I think his intent is to make the game easier in the long run than how I want it to be). The problem is the only threat in the game right now is players and more so hackers. And there is so much incentive to PvP and no drawbacks that what you end up with in Dayz is a lame Call of Duty: Cherno Deathmatch with players who have stuff camping the coast killing anyone they can. I believe they actually need to make the "PvE" components significantly hard, making loot drops much more rare and lower rates, Zombies to be much harder to deal with and alot more of them. What your pointing out are PVE componenents, which casual players want. Right now its lacking and absurdly easy.

If you find the zeds to not be a challenge, do something silly and MAKE it a challenge. I will constantly look for ways to make it a challenge.

If I have an abundance of ammo, I may go and shoot off my DMR in a town, quickly switch to my other weapon, hunker down in a building (My favorite is currently churches for this) and get as many headshots as possible. Don't do body shots. Headshots.

I believe my record was something like 61 kills, 61 headshots before I got a body kill doing something like this. It makes it more challenging. Or, try NOT moving into a building to kill any aggroed zombies, without losing them in a bush.

The fact of the matter is, DayZ is what you make of it.

If you are one of those obnoxious COD-kiddies who will sit and camp cherno for kills, while I have absolutely NO respect for you whatsoever (And want to punch you for ruining the experience), then that's what you do. If you think zombies are not a problem because you use every available resource to make them as easy as possible, then that's your choice. If you want it to be difficult, then impose limits on yourself. That's the great thing about this game; it's possible to do that.

I know I've mentioned this before in other threads, but the concept of making it more challenging is nothing new. For instance, playing an RPG game with only items, no magic. Or doing it without leveling up your skills. Or playing through an FPS using only your pistol. It isn't that PVZ is too easy, it's that you're MAKING it too easy.

[S1ippery Jim 139]

Yeah but your listing game components that are rediculously easy once youve played the game for a week or two. All of the survival components in this game are absurdly easy. The loot tables are way to generous right across the board. Theres too much food, water, weapons and ammo. Zeds barely slow you down. This I agree with Rocket (although I think his intent is to make the game easier in the long run than how I want it to be). The problem is the only threat in the game right now is players and more so hackers. And there is so much incentive to PvP and no drawbacks that what you end up with in Dayz is a lame Call of Duty: Cherno Deathmatch with players who have stuff camping the coast killing anyone they can. I believe they actually need to make the "PvE" components significantly hard, making loot drops much more rare and lower rates, Zombies to be much harder to deal with and alot more of them. What your pointing out are PVE componenents, which casual players want. Right now its lacking and absurdly easy.

I completely agree that the PVP aspect of the game is unbalanced at the moment, and that there should be more of a benefit to not killing on sight than there is at the moment, however for people to make rules to completely remove what you call the only threat in the game (player killing, hackers are impossible to get rid of at the moment sadly) from their non hive servers is just cheap and pathetic.

[byrgesen 1341]

If you want a private hive, where you can KOS all day long, have a look at my signature.

Fast loadtimes, stability and good admins if i must say so myself ;)

[hawc 63]

Don't know why you complain OP, servers like this will draw in carebears who will stop complaining on forums how they suck at the game. They will be happy, normal players will be happy on normal servers.

And everyone will live happily ever after.

[sostronk 334]

I completely agree that the PVP aspect of the game is unbalanced at the moment, and that there should be more of a benefit to not killing on sight than there is at the moment, however for people to make rules to completely remove what you call the only threat in the game (player killing, hackers are impossible to get rid of at the moment sadly) from their non hive servers is just cheap and pathetic.

Tell me about why its "cheap" and "pathetic". Im actually interested in knowing why your thinking this. If somebody wants to play a mod a certain way and they invest their money to provide a place to play it that way, I don't see why thats "cheap", "pathetic" or "lame". The way I see it, we are playing a video game. Its something to be done casually to waste time in between parts of your real life. As long as its not a Public Hive I have no issue with it. If it is a public hive than its exploiting the system, although considering you can get the same result from joining an empty server (which there are alot of now) I dont have a major issue with it. But why do you think differently about private hives? I really don't understand. Why do you think a mod has and can only be played a certain way? Why is it important to you that everyone who plays any version of this Zombie survival mod plays it the way you are playing it?

[Ipurgepeople 106]

Tell me about why its "cheap" and "pathetic". Im actually interested in knowing why your thinking this. If somebody wants to play a mod a certain way and they invest their money to provide a place to play it that way, I don't see why thats "cheap", "pathetic" or "lame". The way I see it, we are playing a video game. Its something to be done casually to waste time in between parts of your real life. As long as its not a Public Hive I have no issue with it. If it is a public hive than its exploiting the system, although considering you can get the same result from joining an empty server (which there are alot of now) I dont have a major issue with it. But why do you think differently about private hives? I really don't understand. Why do you think a mod has and can only be played a certain way? Why is it important to you that everyone who plays any version of this Zombie survival mod plays it the way you are playing it?

I'm quite genuinely interested in this as well. You understand it's unbalanced, needs tweaking, and yet seemingly claim it to be the only way to play?

Also, for those of you who are maturely taking part in this wonderful debate, beans to you for attempting to keep it civilized!

[TheEx1le (DayZ) 6]

Pure server. And I am not a server hoster. I rent a server, which I admin...Soo I am a server admin.

I don't feel entitled to do so, I am stating the fact, that you can do so.

And No, I wouldn't implement a "no PvP" rule.

But having played back just before DayZ got really popular, I would definitely experiment with KoS deterrents. I dunno what it would be...but if I had the possibility, you bet I would. Mod was better when you could roll up to a random bandit, and you could fuck about together, get some beans, maybe a winchester and get mauled by laser guided zombies, not knowing that a bullet was coming for you in the next 30 seconds.

Some people really love Dubstep...I am not a fan. Some people really like Star Trek TNG/TOS, I am more of a DS9 guy myself. Some people like pirates of the Caribbean, I think it is utter crap. Some people drink beer, even when cider is available.

There is no accounting for taste, and somebody has setup a server according to his/her taste.

What we have here is you saying: "Dubstep is crap, fact. Rocket said so"

But what it is, is just a server host who likes Dubstep.

Back to the original point of, So fucking what? Now go play on one of the 300 other servers.

P.S. "however what I am saying is that it is super lame to do so...thats called an opinion" Why do you answer you own questions?

In his opinion KoS is "super lame", you like it....Agree to disagree.

P.P.S. "however what I am saying is that I think it is super lame to do so...that's called an opinion" there, I fixed it for you.

I have to agree. Gone are the days where you would roll into cherno looking for the survivor group huddled away hiding from the bandits ready to make the long road north together. There are certain aspects that you would expect to evolve as the mod did, but that wasn't one I was happy to see go.

Whilst playing obviously I have traveled the bandit route too, getting the skin and wearing it like a badge of honor. Pulling up to a bandit group and best deciding how to trust each other as well as slaughter survivors was one of the things that made this mod great. And these points are exactly what OP is missing, The PVP aspect of the mod is undeniable, but so is the CO-OP. Lots of people enjoy co-op far more than competitive multiplayer and this game is lacking in the former.

Also the paranoia aspect of this game is mooted as being one of the features that draw you in, but how can that be now when 99% of all encounters end in a KoS? The paranoia is gone because of it, its now simple in the eyes of new players and old players alike, kill or be killed. Thats exactly the reason you will see servers like this appear.

Edited September 14, 2012 by TheEx1le

[Ipurgepeople 106]

And these points are exactly what OP is missing, The PVP aspect of the mod is undeniable, but so is the CO-OP. Lots of people enjoy co-op far more than competitive multiplayer and this game is lacking in the former.

This right here. I couldn't have said it any better than this. I find the co-op experience to be invaluable. So much so that I will RARELY play alone. Only time I play alone is on a certain private server where I just goof around with the admins when I'm bored.

I've actually noticed a trend that on private servers people tend to be less likely to KoS as for most people the private server characters are just "alts" that they just mess around on. I've actually met 8 cool people on private servers in my first week playing on them, 4 of them on the same server on the same night, and 2 of them I actively play with, weeks later. I've only met ONE person in normal hive who didn't KoS. And he stabbed us in the proverbial back (technically he shot my buddy in the face) when we were rewarding him for his generosity in helping us. THAT was irritating, but is one of those paranoia factors.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Ipurgepeople

[evilsandwich2 (DayZ) 46]

Nice attempt at creating a straw man argument there friend. I always play legit, I have never, in all my time playing DayZ logged out during a firefight or due to imminent death.

There is no non PVP aspect of DayZ because the game itself includes PVP encounters - in fact these are what add the most tension and paranoi to the game experience.

I don't think you understand what DayZ actually is. DayZ explicitly and by definition involves PVP as well as PVZ.

Creating Non PVP servers is directly against Rocket's intent for the game how the game was designed.

If I should go and play WOW (which I have never played in my life) then perhaps you should toddle off with your non PVP mates and play minecraft in creative mode so that you never have to get out of your comfort zone.

As expected, you completely misunderstood the post even though I tried to explain it as simple as I could. Let me rephrase:

If non-pvp servers exist, then this game cannot be classified as a pvp game.

Shall I continue or will you continue to post without thinking?

[S1ippery Jim 139]

"And these points are exactly what OP is missing"

How so? While the non PVP apologists that have posted above have tried to imply that I am somehow advocating KOS as the only way to play, thats not the case at all. I have been playing DayZ longer than most people on this thread, and I can tell you I appreciate both coop, lone wolf, care bear and bandit styles of play, as well as the more recent medic and trader roles.

I'm against mandatory server rules banning players for any kind of PVP. The choice should be there (as DayZ was designed) to PVP or not to PVP based on your individual choice, not on some arbitrary server admins idea of how people should be playing on a server he has made accessible to the public.

Why would anyone choose to play a realistic zombie apocalypse survival horror MMO and then rent a server so that they can make said zombie apocalypse safer by imposing their own divergent rules banning a key ability such as PVP? That's pretty much easy mode folks, I am going to assume people asking me why I think that's lame are being either ironic or moronic.

Don't take the sand out of the sandbox, you'll find its not that fun if you do.

[Ipurgepeople 106]

I'm against mandatory server rules banning players for any kind of PVP. The choice should be there (as DayZ was designed) to PVP or not to PVP based on your individual choice, not on some arbitrary server admins idea of how people should be playing on a server he has made accessible to the public.

In a perfect environment I would completely agree with you. If the KoS mentality wasn't so deeply ingrained within the player base right now, there would be no need for no-PVP servers. That's the point I'm trying to make.

In short, the necessity of non-PVP servers is definitely questionable, but to those of us who don't like to PVP, they're a nice alternative considering the insane amount of KOS currently in the game. Take away the 97% KoS rate (Figure pulled from my nether regions, but probably not too inaccurate) and the market of non-PVP servers will disappear for the most part. Not entirely, but mostly.

As I stated above, if the possibility of NOT being killed on sight wasn't lower than the chances of finding a legit M107, I would play on high populated servers (If we completely ignore the hacking problem. This is a perfect-world scenario, so I'll add that in as well) because I'd like to run into players and run the calculations of whether or not I'm likely to be killed by this guy I just encountered or not. I'd like to have that kind of feeling when playing. Some of us play on the safe side simply to allow the option of survival instead of dying every 10 minutes.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Ipurgepeople

[S1ippery Jim 139]

The number of people who Kos is greatly exaggerated, and appears higher than it actually is. The stats show that currently only 15% of people are actually bandits. I would suggest from that fact that a few people are doing most of the Kos which seems to be occurring, making it appear more widespread than it actually is. Personally, I still often choose to let other players live. But taking that choice away from players by imposing server rules banning PVP is absolutely weak.

[mibz0r 141]

I'm against mandatory server rules banning players for any kind of PVP. The choice should be there (as DayZ was designed) to PVP or not to PVP based on your individual choice

And how does a Non-PVP player choose to play Non-PVP if you are on the server with him, answer me that one if you are so clever?

I play with a Non-PVP style but I don't look for servers that enforce the rule and have no problem at all people doing what they want with a server they run/pay for, seriously your just here in the hope that we will agree with you and make you feel better about your hatred of Non-PVP players.

[S1ippery Jim 139]

And how does a Non-PVP player choose to play Non-PVP if you are on the server with him, answer me that one if you are so clever?

I play with a Non-PVP style but I don't look for servers that enforce the rule and have no problem at all people doing what they want with a server they run/pay for, seriously your just here in the hope that we will agree with you and make you feel better about your hatred of Non-PVP players.

Look, I could choose to adopt a zombie pacifist gameplay style if I wanted, getting f*cked up by the first infected I encounter would be the disadvantage of that particular style of play.

Choosing to rigidly play non-pvp would have the same disastrous consequences unless you are really really good at stealth.

However, having said that, sometimes in DayZ sh*t happens no matter what you do or how you choose to play.

[Kra 151]

Edit: I have nothing to say.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Kra

[rollo23 57]

I dont see a problem i play no pvp servers from time to time when i feel like it and there pretty fun imo

[evilsandwich2 (DayZ) 46]

I have over 2 million recorded kills in all games I've ever played.

I support non-pvp servers.

Am I a carebear?

If yes, go fuck yourself.

That is all.

[Entaro (DayZ) 33]

I mean, by all means make your own rules on private serves but don't expect any respect if you want to water down the game.

Guess what? Thats why they made a private server. Shut the **** up and go play on another server. (not defending no pvp but you seem like a chode)

Edited September 14, 2012 by Entaro

[adamtheheretic 106]

I just have to point out that at this moment in time, other players are the only interesting thing in the game.

Zombies? Anyone can escape them easily.

Food, Drink and Temperature? All easy to account for.

If these are the things killing you, you're the players dragging our average life down to 1 hour. My longest life has been 25 days, only killed by a hacker... after regaining equipment, I had a further 14 day character before finally being shot doing my third camp raid of the night. Going down a No PVP path will just end up with everyone in the server hoarding things together. What's the point if there's no challenge? It's like me playing Mario on a flat level with no jumps or enemies, or Tetris in which a singular block falls down sequentially filling the bottom row then being destroyed over and over.

[sostronk 334]

I just have to point out that at this moment in time, other players are the only interesting thing in the game.

Zombies? Anyone can escape them easily.

Food, Drink and Temperature? All easy to account for.

If these are the things killing you, you're the players dragging our average life down to 1 hour. My longest life has been 25 days, only killed by a hacker... after regaining equipment, I had a further 14 day character before finally being shot doing my third camp raid of the night. Going down a No PVP path will just end up with everyone in the server hoarding things together. What's the point if there's no challenge? It's like me playing Mario on a flat level with no jumps or enemies, or Tetris in which a singular block falls down sequentially filling the bottom row then being destroyed over and over.

I agree with you to an extent. Although Im unfortunate with players, because of the way I play I think, that most of my encounters with players are with hackers. Thats a major reason I have no interest in PvP, although not the only reason. Right now, I just want to play PvE, theres no point to being involved in any PvP whatsoever when players have limitless advantages over to me where its at a point where I am guaranteed to die and its impossible for them to die. I got to a point where it was either quit the game or find a way to play the game the way I wanted. I found no pvp servers (which arent completely no pvp just alot less of it), single player hack and a way to setup a private server for free that you can password. Its unfortunate, but I get more enjoyment out of the game doing these things right now than I do playing in a legit hive server. But thats the way it is for me. Working hard to achieve goals for hours only to have it all ended by some kid just doesn't cut it for me. I want to achieve things and feel like I have at the end of a gaming session.

[adamtheheretic 106]

I agree with you to an extent. Although Im unfortunate with players, because of the way I play I think, that most of my encounters with players are with hackers. Thats a major reason I have no interest in PvP, although not the only reason. Right now, I just want to play PvE, theres no point to being involved in any PvP whatsoever when players have limitless advantages over to me where its at a point where I am guaranteed to die and its impossible for them to die. I got to a point where it was either quit the game or find a way to play the game the way I wanted. I found no pvp servers (which arent completely no pvp just alot less of it), single player hack and a way to setup a private server for free that you can password. Its unfortunate, but I get more enjoyment out of the game doing these things right now than I do playing in a legit hive server. But thats the way it is for me. Working hard to achieve goals for hours only to have it all ended by some kid just doesn't cut it for me. I want to achieve things and feel like I have at the end of a gaming session.

If there's still PVP, I'm fine with it but OP pointed out that some of these servers create rules to actually stop you from PVP'ing, so you'd most likely be kicked or prevented from joining the server again which isn't exactly fair. Also calling it a No PVP server when there's PVP is just silly. I would like less PVP, I used to get excited hearing someone respond when I asked "who's in that (fill in location)" rather than hearing nothing and having to shoot out of fear or hearing "friendly, friendly, friendly" as they sprint at me resulting in a dead player, be it bandit trickery or just idiots that run at players with M4's.

Anyhow, if the server is private hive then it's own rules can be created but should be advertised. If it's not a private hive then get that shit out of DayZ.

Even if I don't see the point of it, if it's not in the hive and feedback isn't being given to the dev's because of experiences in those servers then I'm fine with them being in their own concealed corner.

[Holykittens 5]

Dear OP,

Go back to wow please. You are the person playing in battlegrounds 24/7 whereas people like me are running the server's economy. Your ignorance is blatantly apparent because you actually took the time to write that post rather than considering the non-pvp aspect of the game. Now before you reply "this game is pvp only just like call of duty on a bigger map", why don't you take 5 minutes and write down all of the things you do when you aren't "pvping". You'll find that pvp doesn't even take 1% of your time in DayZ... Unless you login on a hill outside of Cherno, take 10 shots with your AS50, get 1 kill, then immediately log out because you're scared.

Go read a book or something.

Dear severly butthurt poster,

Shut the fuck up.

He never said he wanted every one to play CoD on a bigger map he was stateing that severs with no pvp seem kinda pointless and lack a big element in dayz.

Love, Holy