It shall not punish gameplay styles

[legwiz 0]

I know rocket has removed the bandit skin by saying he doesn't want to make things harder or punish anyone for their gameplay style, but think this way: Removing it doesn't do exctly the same to the ones who like co-op playing?

For instance, I'm a survivor and like the PvP, without it this mod wouldn't have half the fun, but I also like forming groups, and have no friends playing together.

Then, I found someone. Is he willing to kill, or to group-up? How can I possibly make friends and form parties, without even knowing what is his gameplay style, or his "reputation"? Will I ask him "friendly?". Words mean shit, the same guy who said that, may explode you head off in your back.

This system, while does simulate a real life situation, punishes who wants to find someone to play with, forcing them to shoot on sight and "trusting no one". This is a game, and sometimes making it more "real" breaks the experience. IRL, we'd have other ways of meeting/dealing, like putting guns down and stuff, things we don't have here.

And I don't see where you punish someone by changing their skin in murders. They said everyone would shoot them on sight, but now that's what happens to everyone, right?

And please, no QQ bout how you are hardcore and like your game difficult, this is supposed to be a discussion thread.

[richard_b 15]

The PvP system is flawed right now. In the past 3 days I've been killed 4 times by survivors. This needs fixing.

[imagelesskjc 35]

The PvP system is flawed right now. In the past 3 days I've been killed 4 times by survivors. This needs fixing.

Be more wary when around other players?

My character has been alive for over 30 days now. I don't seem to be having this problem so many are complaining about.

[osme_oxys 9]

Not giving people free access to any gun they please must break the game for anyone who plays coop too? But not the bandits of course. They dont get these.

How does not having magic break the game experience and make it unrealistic? You can put your gun down, salute, exactly what you say cant be done. Nobody was ever shot on sight except bandits. Survivors wernt even shoot on sight to bandits. You can find out a person reputation, sure. But you of have to heard of them first, dont you think? Its up to you to search for info on other people, not a game breaking mechanic that imposes another play style to be punished. Half the things in your thread arnt true in the least, as a fact, and the other half are opinions that are... In my opinion, bad opinions.

Edit: To add to this, weve come across 1 person who was hostile, 4 who didnt care about us, and 3 who were friendly and joined our group. So yes I ask, why do you think everything is shoot on sight? Have you considered that youre blind and dont notice the people looking at you? You only notice the hostile ones because they make themselves known.

[lunakhod 8]

There is no bandit/survivor problem currently - you just have to play your cards right if you want to team up. It's simple risk/reward; will you accept the danger of creating a party for the benefits said party gives you?

Additionally - do not trust people you have no reason to trust. It takes quite awhile to come upon a situation where you will be able to befriend someone without fear of them killing you, but when it does happen it's that much more enjoyable because you know how unlikely setting up a team in this game is.

[dallas 5195]

I believe he wants to add features to support players' humanity choices/play style, no to punnish or reward them. Whateverthehellthatmeans :D

[osme_oxys 9]

I believe he wants to add features to support players' humanity choices/play style' date=' no to punnish or reward them. Whateverthehellthatmeans :D

[/quote']

Hes saying that bandits have too much of an advantage without glowing in the dark and whatnot. Because not having magic makes it unfair to PvE players.

I suppose its better than people who suggest bandits should be mentally insane (So many of those threads. Each one dumber than the last), and have the bandit skin.

[JPalmer 3]

With the removal of OOC chats, the future removal of disconnecting when in a gun battle, and possibly the future removal of editing settings to turn night time into black and white time what will happen is people will become pussies.

And hopefully it reduces gun battles.

I hope for one day where groups stop praying on lone wolves to kill them. I would rather have you surround me, tell me to drop my gun and then give you all my shit.

I am okay with losing my stuff. I don't QQ about it. I just wish I lose my stuff a little more realistically. When you have numbers why waste ammo and put yourselves in danger. Do it like you would in real life.

Hope some features gets put in the standalone or ARMA 3 version that makes getting someone to surrender a better tactic than just killing.

[osme_oxys 9]

With the removal of OOC chats' date=' the future removal of disconnecting when in a gun battle, and possibly the future removal of editing settings to turn night time into black and white time what will happen is people will become pussies.

And hopefully it reduces gun battles.

I hope for one day where groups stop praying on lone wolves to kill them. I would rather have you surround me, tell me to drop my gun and then give you all my shit.

I am okay with losing my stuff. I don't QQ about it. I just wish I lose my stuff a little more realistically. When you have numbers why waste ammo and put yourselves in danger. Do it like you would in real life.

Hope some features gets put in the standalone or ARMA 3 version that makes getting someone to surrender a better tactic than just killing.

[/quote']

The dream is surrendering for a reason, problem is, the player doesnt value their characters life, they value the loot the player has. Nobody will ever surrender.

[dallas 5195]

Hes saying that bandits have too much of an advantage without glowing in the dark and whatnot. Because not having magic makes it unfair to PvE players.

Unlike now where bandits realistically can shoot and miss me and when I return fire, they click their heels and disconnect to Kansas. Atleast before, players who earned a reputation as murderers, could not just swap servers/alternate realities and shed their bandit reputation.

[osme_oxys 9]

Hes saying that bandits have too much of an advantage without glowing in the dark and whatnot. Because not having magic makes it unfair to PvE players.

Unlike now where bandits realistically can shoot and miss me and when I return fire' date=' they click their heels and disconnect to Kansas.

Before players who earned a reputation as murderers, could not just swap servers/alternate realities and shed their bandit reputation.

[/quote']

Ahh but thats the point. For you to know a persons reputation, you need to know their name and face. It would be up to you to find out information about people, not for it to be immediately given to you.

Its like asking you to figure out everything about my real world life by simply knowing my online username.

[worst2first 71]

The poor state of the alpha and / or the limitations of the engine severely limit cooperative play. You can team up with other players but the only practical way to do this is outside of the game. This isn't a tenable system.

The good news is that Rocket knows this and has repeatedly said that it is going to be addressed.

[robosheriff 13]

The dream is surrendering for a reason' date=' problem is, the player doesnt value their characters life, they value the loot the player has. Nobody will ever surrender.

[/quote']

They value the loot the player has. Nobody will ever surrender.

Nobody will ever surrender.

ever

dat guy right at least i know i wouldn't, unless im trying to rp wich i suck hard at it.

[FragMonkey 1]

The bandit idea was a flawed one to begin with. Having bandit skins introduced the idea of a "bandit class" or "playstyle." Such a thing does not exist. People only do things because they can, not because they want to play a certain class

[dallas 5195]

The Murder by Numbers thread indicated a noticable increase in murders and bandits, after the skin was removed, so it might have worked as a deterence after all.

[radioghost 2]

I appreciate that people have different opinions about banditry and PvP.

That being said, I think that people on both side of the fence need to sit back and let the game develop organically. We're in the beginning stages of Day-z right now--it's too early to make big decisions. I also applaud rocket for experimenting by adding and removing elements like the bandit skin.

The reason I like Day-z (personally) is that it forces ME to adapt to IT, instead of vice versa. It's truly a successful survival simulator in this regard.

I sincerely hope rocket doesn't cave to either side in this discussion.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

Bandit skin were introduced trying to compensate the consequence of killing someone in an artificial way, since this is a videogame, and killing a bunch of pixels doesn't produce any consequence, but often the opposite: in videogame it is fun, in real life (at least for most ppl) it is not, you don't kill other (few remained alive in the whole world due to an apocalypse) chaps just because you're bored.

It was the perfect solution? Nope it was not, but it shouldn't have been removed without an alternate solution, since the consequences were too obvious.. and in fact now we have 20 threads per day of ppl annoyed by the unstoppable death-match.

Again: none wanted to "punish" a certain playing style, but since this game is supposed to replicate an actual behavior, you need to find the right mechanic to compesate the absence of certain feelings:

- Scared to death: you are not scared to death in a videogame. You may be annoyed to loose your loot.. but not that much, and anyway it's so far to the real fear of being killed that i won't even imagine a comparision;

- Afraid to kill another person: in you are not in a video, instead it may be fun. In real life killing another person (even if under pressure) isn't like killing some pixels. But seems already too obvious to me.

- Fear: you're in a zombie apocalypse, you can die any moment, you would be scared to hell! The first thing you'll do is probably to team up with someone, imagine even basic things like sleeping alone during the night, having another couple of eyes (or even more) and doing shifts would save your life! But here.. you can just disconnect, you don't need anyone else skill, you can live alone forevere.. so you don't need the others, then: better to kill em.

This and many other (obvious) differences makes a videogame different than real life, some of them cannot be replicate digitally, so you need to apply certain solution to level the gameplay making it more like the real life. Bandit skin was one of those "compromises" .. not perfect, but it someway worked until a proper solution.

[legwiz 0]

With the removal of OOC chats' date=' the future removal of disconnecting when in a gun battle, and possibly the future removal of editing settings to turn night time into black and white time what will happen is people will become pussies.

And hopefully it reduces gun battles.

I hope for one day where groups stop praying on lone wolves to kill them. I would rather have you surround me, tell me to drop my gun and then give you all my shit.

I am okay with losing my stuff. I don't QQ about it. I just wish I lose my stuff a little more realistically. When you have numbers why waste ammo and put yourselves in danger. Do it like you would in real life.

Hope some features gets put in the standalone or ARMA 3 version that makes getting someone to surrender a better tactic than just killing.

[/quote']

The dream is surrendering for a reason, problem is, the player doesnt value their characters life, they value the loot the player has. Nobody will ever surrender.

Yeah, that is the point.

Even with a surrender system, life means nothing to anyone. The only difference between you before death and you after death is your gear, and the guy who killed you could get these with both actions. Which one do you think they would choose? My shot is the most quick and funny.

I don't agree with the guy whose nick I don't remind that said my first post was half lies, even though I'll not call him a liar.

First, talking about your so desired realistic level: What would make me preserve another person life in a real zombie apocalipse (if that is possible)? Well, just like is in the game, it's just a shot and everything he owns it's yours, but is one less human of few, and we know that nobody, in a real situation, would like to stay alone (saving for annoying/dangerous people).

You want some reality? Make just one life forever. You die, you quit, you throw 30 bucks on the trash. Of course this will never be implemented and I don't like it neither, but I bet if everyone you kill never return again, the solo game would be veeeery boring, and life would really worth. Unless someone likes to play PvE and kill zeds, but then I would recommend RE or something..

Second: You cannot put your guns to the ground and have a fair talk in a functionable system nowadays. And yes, most of unknown players fire first and ask later. You probably thinks different because: you are surrounded by acquaintances, or lucky to meet very friendly people until now. And if there were no problems of shoot on sight with bandits before the change, why did they change? And now this is a general issue.

The thing is: like someone said, it's hard to find ingame fellas to play with. I'm not criticizing murderers, neither the PvP (best thing), just the difficulty of forming ingame groups. Cause now I kill every guy I see, i don't know about his intentions, and so do he about mine. Would be nice to get a clue on it, and since nick reputation doesn't work (where should I search about? Which one of the hundreds of servers?), this is the only thing I see.

EDIT: Read WalkerDown's post by now and it figures perfectly from what i meant with "too much reality in something that doesn't have the same weight and importance and consequences like in reality".

[septuscap 42]

Hopefully rocket implements a friend list so you can enable tags on mouse-over for people you know (should be mutual so I give you tags iff you give me tags).

Regarding bandit reputation, it'd be cool if you could flag a player as a bandit and have it share that info with your friends. So if Max talks in direct, I see his name in red b/c I flagged him a bandit. Or I see his name in orange if one of my friends mentioned he was a bandit. Or I see his name in yellow if a friend of a friend mentioned he was a bandit. Etc.

Honestly I feel like this is all that's needed to create a robust social structure in the game.

[legwiz 0]

Hopefully rocket implements a friend list so you can enable tags on mouse-over for people you know (should be mutual so I give you tags iff you give me tags).

Regarding bandit reputation' date=' it'd be cool if you could flag a player as a bandit and have it share that info with your friends. So if Max talks in direct, I see his name in red b/c I flagged him a bandit. Or I see his name in orange if one of my friends mentioned he was a bandit. Or I see his name in yellow if a friend of a friend mentioned he was a bandit. Etc.

Honestly I feel like this is all that's needed to create a robust social structure in the game.

[/quote']

Yeah, with a friend list system implemented, pretty sure this would work just fine in order to build a social reputation system.

[Wüstenfuchs (DayZ) 105]

Obviously rocket didn't want the mod to turn into mindless kill-on-sight death match as it has turned in the past few weeks. This is the reason he implemented the humanity / bandit skin system in the first place, to have some kind of consequence for killing other survivors.

The bandit skin solution, while was not perfect, helped to calm down the kill-on-sight, because people would think twice before shooting someone. For several reasons bandit skins were eventually removed, but the humanity system is still in the game and I'm sure rocket will eventually re-introduce some kind of punishment for the murderers who end up with low humanity.

I'm sure rocket wants the stranger survivors to have also some other kind of interaction and communication besides shooting in the face. As for banditry, realistic banditry would be to rob you on gunpoint and leave you alive. In real life, very small percentage of people are so psychopaths that they can murder people on sight without any effects or consequences.

[osme_oxys 9]

Obviously rocket didn't want the mod to turn into mindless kill-on-sight death match as it has turned in the past few weeks. This is the reason he implemented the humanity / bandit skin system in the first place' date=' to have some kind of consequence (or punishment, as rocket said) for killing other survivors.

The bandit skin solution, while was not perfect, helped to calm down the kill-on-sight, because people would think twice before shooting someone. For several reasons bandit skins were eventually removed, but the humanity system is still in the game and I'm sure rocket will eventually re-introduce some kind of punishment for the murderers who end up with low humanity.

I'm sure rocket wants the stranger survivors to have also some other kind of interaction and communication besides shooting in the face. As for banditry, realistic banditry would be to rob you on gunpoint and leave you alive. In real life, very small percentage of people are so psychopaths that they can murder people on sight without any effects or consequences.

[/quote']

As I see it, it should be the other way around for the whole idea of humanity. "Survivors" kill dozens of sick people for a bandage that they dont need, while "bandits" kill 1 for several days worth of supplies. There are those who mass murder for the sake of killing, and that should be punished, but in a way that doesnt net players. And no, those who hunt on the coast are not players.

[luciddose 23]

Not being able to trust everyone you meet is part of the game, just as important as your guns and gear and more challenging than any game of this caliber. If you eliminate this key aspect of the game you will take away from the spirit of the game, and the challenges you take.

I am glad the bandit skin is gone, it was too easy to identify player killers and it forced people to take sides, now you have a new level and dimension of gameplay which is mass paranoia and discovering for yourselves how you learn to trust one another.

Reputations while they play a key role also can be changed at will, anyone can change their name at anytime. Bandits always say they are friendly and how you deal with people you meet is up to you to decide. It is a freedom your given that not too many games explore. If you want to trade this freedom for what you deem as a personal security and comfort you are doing a disservice to the essence of the game experience.

It is less about being hard core than it is exploring options other games don't even touch. If something is not working for you then change things up, approach players differently, what players choose to do is up to them to decide and the game mechanics do not force me to play any way but how I choose and I hope this never changes.

[JPalmer 3]

With the removal of OOC chats' date=' the future removal of disconnecting when in a gun battle, and possibly the future removal of editing settings to turn night time into black and white time what will happen is people will become pussies.

And hopefully it reduces gun battles.

I hope for one day where groups stop praying on lone wolves to kill them. I would rather have you surround me, tell me to drop my gun and then give you all my shit.

I am okay with losing my stuff. I don't QQ about it. I just wish I lose my stuff a little more realistically. When you have numbers why waste ammo and put yourselves in danger. Do it like you would in real life.

Hope some features gets put in the standalone or ARMA 3 version that makes getting someone to surrender a better tactic than just killing.

[/quote']

The dream is surrendering for a reason, problem is, the player doesnt value their characters life, they value the loot the player has. Nobody will ever surrender.

Yeah, that is the point.

Even with a surrender system, life means nothing to anyone. The only difference between you before death and you after death is your gear, and the guy who killed you could get these with both actions. Which one do you think they would choose? My shot is the most quick and funny.

I don't agree with the guy whose nick I don't remind that said my first post was half lies, even though I'll not call him a liar.

First, talking about your so desired realistic level: What would make me preserve another person life in a real zombie apocalipse (if that is possible)? Well, just like is in the game, it's just a shot and everything he owns it's yours, but is one less human of few, and we know that nobody, in a real situation, would like to stay alone (saving for annoying/dangerous people).

You want some reality? Make just one life forever. You die, you quit, you throw 30 bucks on the trash. Of course this will never be implemented and I don't like it neither, but I bet if everyone you kill never return again, the solo game would be veeeery boring, and life would really worth. Unless someone likes to play PvE and kill zeds, but then I would recommend RE or something..

Second: You cannot put your guns to the ground and have a fair talk in a functionable system nowadays. And yes, most of unknown players fire first and ask later. You probably thinks different because: you are surrounded by acquaintances, or lucky to meet very friendly people until now. And if there were no problems of shoot on sight with bandits before the change, why did they change? And now this is a general issue.

The thing is: like someone said, it's hard to find ingame fellas to play with. I'm not criticizing murderers, neither the PvP (best thing), just the difficulty of forming ingame groups. Cause now I kill every guy I see, i don't know about his intentions, and so do he about mine. Would be nice to get a clue on it, and since nick reputation doesn't work (where should I search about? Which one of the hundreds of servers?), this is the only thing I see.

EDIT: Read WalkerDown's post by now and it figures perfectly from what i meant with "too much reality in something that doesn't have the same weight and importance and consequences like in reality".

I don't want 100% reality either. But, I guess you win. I just want the uniqueness and the immersion of the game to stay. That is what got me and many others hooked. Not every feature needs to be 100% connected to reality either. Dying forever is stupid, but sometimes realism in certain gameplay elements can add to the game. You are blind if you don't see that.

[Ejaculacid 19]

The PvP system is flawed right now. In the past 3 days I've been killed 4 times by survivors. This needs fixing.

Be more wary when around other players?

My character has been alive for over 30 days now. I don't seem to be having this problem so many are complaining about.

Then you must be avoiding high risk areas, living off the land. The lack of high population servers allows this to happen far too easily. Show me a 200 man server ;D

P.s. i miss my bandit skin