40 Suggestions to Improve Realism and Immersion

[00dlez 22]

I agree with a lot of this but it's far too much to be specific. I will say that giving server admins more control than they have is a bad idea. I can think of at least ten servers that will restart over and over when certain people are online so they can farm heli crashes. Giving them control over loot spawning will end badly.

While making sniping and shooting in general more realistic would be great; it leaves a wide gap in player survival against zombies. It also would turn most players away because they do not want to learn how mil dots work or how to determine range without a range finder. You're asking everyone to learn what marine snipers spend months training for in a few hours. Windage should be out. However, a sniper should have to compensate for a 1000m shot. After reading your post, I perched myself on a hill about a 1000 meters from a target of sorts in an open plain. I put the crosshairs of my as50 on the target and let loose a round. It hit at least 20 meters in front of the target. So I think some skill requirements are in place already. It is not all too easy to snipe a player from a 1000 meters. I suppose if you just fired all 20 rounds from a DMR at them it is easy but then everyone also knows where you are.

That's much of my point. Learning to use mil dots and calculate/estiamte range is about as complex as shooting should be

(aside from realising that sprinting for 5 minutes then trying to fire a .50 calibur rifle, unbraced, while standing is going to be less accurate than firing that same rifle from the prone position with a bipod)

Anything that 95% of players can't readily grasp during gameplay is overly complex. The specifics don't matter as much as the concepts, so long as players can understand and adjust is all that matters.

GOOD:

"Huh, my rounds keep falling short, I guess if I aim 2 dots higher I can hit that guy..."

Player doesn't realise explicitly that each dot is used for 100m beynd the zeroed in scope range, but the concept is easily grasped, even through trial and error.

BAD:

"ZOMGWTFBBQQQQ! I had that bandit dead in my properly zoomed crosshairs just standing still and I missed high and right by 10 meters!?!! BS!"

Player doesn't realize that he was firing across a East-West Valley and the strong wind carried his round off target and the warm air in the sunny valley kept his bullet more aloft than normal, nor would he be able to conceptualize these things easily to figure it out through reasonable trial and error.

[deadlykenny 37]

Ok, to anyone complaining about snipers read this before you start spilling your mindless babble some mode:

1. "snipers go too far with no bullet drop".... Snipers are meant to go long distances with no bullet drop, but some snipers do it better than others, I.e. the CZ and the AS50, the CZ has a good enough zeroing but the AS50 has one of the best.

2."Snipers are overpowered".... they are meant to be, when the military first came up with the concept of sniper rifles they wanted them to be a 1 shot kill, kill the enemy before they know what is happening

3."The AS50 and m107 should be removed because they 1 shot you anywhere".... These are both anti-material sniper rifles, they are meant to take anything out, be it the tank driver, helicopter pilot or just infantry, they punch through most things, so the 1 shot kill feature for them is fine, perhaps if you keep getting shot by them, think about how its your fault for being out in the open when a bandit is looking for people to kill for fun, it isn't the sniper rifles fault, it has to be that way.

Just try to remember these things before you start blabbering off how snipers are overpowered or how they should be removed from the game

(P.S. I wrote this because i was tired of seeing stupid comments about sniper rifles by people who, from what they said, clearly know nothing about them)

[colekern 1364]

I recently learned that this is already an option for admins. A "private hive". Actions on these servers don't affect your master hive character at all, and some people seem to really enjoy playing on these servers. Hacking seems to be much less frequent, apparently.

I think he changed it. yesterday it said that there would be 24 hour wait before you switch servers.

[colekern 1364]

Ok, to anyone complaining about snipers read this before you start spilling your mindless babble some mode:

1. "snipers go too far with no bullet drop".... Snipers are meant to go long distances with no bullet drop, but some snipers do it better than others, I.e. the CZ and the AS50, the CZ has a good enough zeroing but the AS50 has one of the best.

2."Snipers are overpowered".... they are meant to be, when the military first came up with the concept of sniper rifles they wanted them to be a 1 shot kill, kill the enemy before they know what is happening

3."The AS50 and m107 should be removed because they 1 shot you anywhere".... These are both anti-material sniper rifles, they are meant to take anything out, be it the tank driver, helicopter pilot or just infantry, they punch through most things, so the 1 shot kill feature for them is fine, perhaps if you keep getting shot by them, think about how its your fault for being out in the open when a bandit is looking for people to kill for fun, it isn't the sniper rifles fault, it has to be that way.

Just try to remember these things before you start blabbering off how snipers are overpowered or how they should be removed from the game

(P.S. I wrote this because i was tired of seeing stupid comments about sniper rifles by people who, from what they said, clearly know nothing about them)

I think in parts of that he just meant make it harder to snipe.

[00dlez 22]

Ok, to anyone complaining about snipers read this before you start spilling your mindless babble some mode:

1. "snipers go too far with no bullet drop".... Snipers are meant to go long distances with no bullet drop, but some snipers do it better than others, I.e. the CZ and the AS50, the CZ has a good enough zeroing but the AS50 has one of the best.

2."Snipers are overpowered".... they are meant to be, when the military first came up with the concept of sniper rifles they wanted them to be a 1 shot kill, kill the enemy before they know what is happening

3."The AS50 and m107 should be removed because they 1 shot you anywhere".... These are both anti-material sniper rifles, they are meant to take anything out, be it the tank driver, helicopter pilot or just infantry, they punch through most things, so the 1 shot kill feature for them is fine, perhaps if you keep getting shot by them, think about how its your fault for being out in the open when a bandit is looking for people to kill for fun, it isn't the sniper rifles fault, it has to be that way.

Just try to remember these things before you start blabbering off how snipers are overpowered or how they should be removed from the game

(P.S. I wrote this because i was tired of seeing stupid comments about sniper rifles by people who, from what they said, clearly know nothing about them)

Speaking of blabbering... I'm not sure this is an issue in any of the above posts...

[jaws4096 77]

Thanks for all the comments guys - I love the variety of opinions, and the fact that everyone seems to really be putting some thought behind their opinions.

A lot of people are pointing out that making sniping too complex will decrease the enjoyment of the game for more casual players. I think 00dlez made this point really well when he wrote the following:

Learning to use mil dots and calculate/estiamte range is about as complex as shooting should be (aside from realising that sprinting for 5 minutes then trying to fire a .50 calibur rifle, unbraced, while standing is going to be less accurate than firing that same rifle from the prone position with a bipod)

Anything that 95% of players can't readily grasp during gameplay is overly complex. The specifics don't matter as much as the concepts, so long as players can understand and adjust is all that matters.

GOOD:

"Huh, my rounds keep falling short, I guess if I aim 2 dots higher I can hit that guy..."

Player doesn't realise explicitly that each dot is used for 100m beynd the zeroed in scope range, but the concept is easily grasped, even through trial and error.

BAD:

"ZOMGWTFBBQQQQ! I had that bandit dead in my properly zoomed crosshairs just standing still and I missed high and right by 10 meters!?!! BS!"

Player doesn't realize that he was firing across a East-West Valley and the strong wind carried his round off target and the warm air in the sunny valley kept his bullet more aloft than normal, nor would he be able to conceptualize these things easily to figure it out through reasonable trial and error.

Well said, but when it comes to the physics of shooting, I always vote for modeling more complexity rather than less, whenever possible. If a player sees trees and grass blowing around wildly, he should know that long-range shots will be affected, and that hitting anything beyond a few hundred meters will be next to impossible. He'll either need to wait for better conditions, or get closer. That's realistic, and easily grasped by novice players. Things like atmospheric pressure, spin drift, and other minor influences on a bullet's flight path really only become significant factors at very long ranges, and can safely be ignored by most people. If that means that novice players can't make 1,000 meter shots, that's fine by me.

Shooting someone 1,000 meters away at a practice range is really, really hard for professional snipers, who do little else but train for just such a shot, and have the very best equipment available. Dayz is a game about beat-up survivalists, near starvation, using scavenged equipment to fend off the undead monsters and unfriendly humans that are constantly hunting them. Precision marksmanship would be extremely rare in that situation. I'm not saying sniping should be impossible, but making it realistically hard would push people to behave more like they would in an actual Dayz world... and that's a good thing.

[DonkiiPuncH 6]

Awesome list, some very good ideas and alot of thought put into them. I think that most are great, however my concern is that making things too realistic could be a deterrent for alot of casual players. I completely understand that the emphasis is on realism, however alot of people might find that the controls/systems are too complicated an thus will not play. Now I know that alot of people will welcome that in a way as you wont have noobish players running about, however from a business perspective it doesnt make alot of sense as it will impact sales of the game. However in saying that, Rocket and co. have done a wonderful job so far so I'm sure they will get the balance right in the end product. The only thing I can really think of to add at this time, and it kind of carries on from the fishing suggestion( which id love to be included BTW) is to add more boats. There is a massive coastline in the game and something like 4 boats. Where are all the boats? If we want to talk realistic I would say that there would be boats docked all over the place as is the case with any coastline/body of water anywhere. Sure it might defeat the purpose of battling to survive the Zombie Apocalypse if im just floating about fishing in the ocean but isnt the game about surviving your way? Plus I think that there would be some military vessels around the place too considering all the other military bits and bobs around the place. It would be cool to search a Navy Battleship docked somewhere like Cherno. Anyway cool list congrats again!

[ZomboWTF 527]

11: there is allready a grass concealment layer, people outside of grass render range are invisible in grass if done right

29: Private Hive basically

40: The first few were about making realism higher, now if someone still has a working head he can be revived and healed by electric shocks? erm...

Also, most of the weapon stuff is allready in the game, weapons have a spread no matter how steady you aim (try hitting something with a PDW on 500 meters) the aim is also shaking a lot after running a lot, more would be pretty stupid

I love the ideas with the weigth/space of items, though this would make repairing choppers main rotors pretty much impossible

AFAIK, rocket and the devs work on a completely new item management system in the standalone

[Captain"hawkeye" 0]

yeah he should hire you i like the idea of berries and shrooms but booby trapping cars not good because hackers would booby trap every car in the server i dont like the north american setting as much because too many games have been set in america it just gets annoying with america america america the russian setting is a nice change the landscape is similar to the republic of ireland or scotland i think alaska would be a good setting for dayz

i live in alaska cherust me the landscape isint that similar

[deadlykenny 37]

Speaking of blabbering... I'm not sure this is an issue in any of the above posts...

In some of the above comments there was at least one person saying how snipers shoot too far with no bullet drop, i had just had enough with loads of people moaning about things they didn't understand, which is why i posted.

I think in parts of that he just meant make it harder to snipe.

Well I guess the wind would affect snipers at longer range, but the zeroing is there for a reason, it makes the bullet go to the target no problem, but i see many peoples point about making sniping harder, if perhaps the snipers that had bipods had to fired when prone to get maximum accuracy they would be realistic, and if they were being fired when not prone and other snipers without bipods would have to be steadied by holding your breath, as this is what has to happen in real life.

[Bearded McGee 121]

I agree with maybe 35 of them, so you have my beans for now.

The one I'm having a lot of trouble with is the defibrillator unit however.

That's not how they work.

Defibrillation is a treatment for dysrythmia, ventricular fibrillation and ventricular tachycardia (all three are forms of fibrillation, hence de-fibrillation) as opposed to the usually represented asystole condition (colloquially known as flatline or beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-herdoktorweharelojinghimharr!)

So yeah, a better alternative would be to inject the asystolic player with epinephrine and then give them a good beating .

Edited September 12, 2012 by Axelord FTW

[jaws4096 77]

11: there is allready a grass concealment layer, people outside of grass render range are invisible in grass if done right

29: Private Hive basically

40: The first few were about making realism higher, now if someone still has a working head he can be revived and healed by electric shocks? erm...

Also, most of the weapon stuff is allready in the game, weapons have a spread no matter how steady you aim (try hitting something with a PDW on 500 meters) the aim is also shaking a lot after running a lot, more would be pretty stupid

I love the ideas with the weigth/space of items, though this would make repairing choppers main rotors pretty much impossible

AFAIK, rocket and the devs work on a completely new item management system in the standalone

Zombo, can you go into a little more detail about how concealment works? I had no idea this mechanic existed.

[00dlez 22]

Well said, but when it comes to the physics of shooting, I always vote for modeling more complexity rather than less, whenever possible. If a player sees trees and grass blowing around wildly, he should know that long-range shots will be affected, and that hitting anything beyond a few hundred meters will be next to impossible. He'll either need to wait for better conditions, or get closer. That's realistic, and easily grasped by novice players. Things like atmospheric pressure, spin drift, and other minor influences on a bullet's flight path really only become significant factors at very long ranges, and can safely be ignored by most people. If that means that novice players can't make 1,000 meter shots, that's fine by me.

Shooting someone 1,000 meters away at a practice range is really, really hard for professional snipers, who do little else but train for just such a shot, and have the very best equipment available. Dayz is a game about beat-up survivalists, near starvation, using scavenged equipment to fend off the undead monsters and unfriendly humans that are constantly hunting them. Precision marksmanship would be extremely rare in that situation. I'm not saying sniping should be impossible, but making it realistically hard would push people to behave more like they would in an actual Dayz world... and that's a good thing.

Maybe we just have to agree to disagree, then. I can't think of any other game where wind had an actual in game effect other than a background sound effect, let alone had an impact on bullet trajectory.

Without reading the wiki in depth, I highly doubt players would realize this is what is causing them to miss their shots based on every other game they've played.

Moreover, how would even an experienced player be able to calculate exact wind speed and direction to target? Would there just be a simple wind/no wind condition? Direction is still an issue. In RL It's a lot easier to gauge wind strength and direction based on what we feel, maybe plucking some grass to watch it drift... but our senses are limited in the game, as are the animations of grass, trees, etc...

It would almost make it lucky to pull off a shot, which might be what you prefer, but I imagine that a majority would like to see it as skill based as possible with out making it unaccessible to everyone.

[Dreathker 1]

I like some of your ideas, but I think this would make the game a bit to complicated for the newer players if they joined. It took me around 5 hours to learn the very basics. I've been playing this game for at least 100 hours so far and still haven't learnt their is everything to do with the game. I'm not saying no to them I just like the way DayZ is now Your ideas are about realism but can be very complicated. But you have my beans

[Bernd (DayZ) 134]

Nice list - I strongly agree about clothing types and weapon maintenance. Some of the lads think players shouldn't be automatically able to repair every vehicle. Character classes perhaps? Backstories? No one wants 'levelling up' brought into DayZ, mind.

One feature I'd like to see - kidnapping. This idea is so badass it glows red. How cool would it be to bag someone, tie them up and take them hostage? It would bring in an alternative to death or wounding, and with the introduction of handcuffs and an interactable radiator we could do the full 'Terry Waite'. You could even chain someone to the fence outside the fire station and fire off one single dinner bell round.

Naturally it allows for heroic saviours, siege situations, blackmail and all sorts of shenanigans. Bandit prison anyone?

[Deetwo 69]

One feature I'd like to see - kidnapping. This idea is so badass it glows red. How cool would it be to bag someone, tie them up and take them hostage? It would bring in an alternative to death or wounding, and with the introduction of handcuffs and an interactable radiator we could do the full 'Terry Waite'. You could even chain someone to the fence outside the fire station and fire off one single dinner bell round.

Naturally it allows for heroic saviours, siege situations, blackmail and all sorts of shenanigans. Bandit prison anyone?

I like this idea as well. Hell, it's already possible in the game. You could simply shoot someone in the leg to incapacitate them, drag them close to a car and force them into it by gun point. The only thing missing is not being able to physically drag someone into a truck and drive off.

That and being able to bound and gag the guy.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Deetwo

[Gordon Axeman 191]

Cool suugestions.

I have one more about the ammo system. We can shoot a mag partially, say from 30 rnd. AKM 15rnd is left. We can find an ammo box, where there are lots of single rounds. So we can load up fully/partially empty mags.

What do you think?

[00dlez 22]

Cool suugestions.

I have one more about the ammo system. We can shoot a mag partially, say from 30 rnd. AKM 15rnd is left. We can find an ammo box, where there are lots of single rounds. So we can load up fully/partially empty mags.

What do you think?

I get combining lots of partial magazines into one full magazine, but finding individual bullets seems silly to me... Why not just find a full mag and either drop the old one to replace it or hang on to the full and the partial.

[nyk_nunya 40]

Haven't sifted through all of it, but I will say the wind factor is a must. This game doesn't, and shouldn't be casual. It's meant to be an intense, rewarding experience that you get more out of the more you play, not the same thing over and over.

However, no company is going to cater strictly to people who want to play a game to it's full potential, there's not as much money to be made compared to catering towards casuals. It, like a good number of suggestions, could simply be a server option. Sniping would be so much more rewarding if it wasn't point and click, and as you stated, would coarse people into playing more like a survivor, and less like a sociopathic ex marine.

[kebman 213]

My first critique of this is that it almost only regards weapon systems. There is much more to survival than that.

However, there is a limit to the frustration I'm willing to take playing a game. In order for players to come back, there has to be a system of rewards. And only rewarding players who murder and kill on a high pop server is not the way to go.

Part of the game for me is going on low pop servers to find some sweet equipment and try it out without having to bother with a million KOSing and griefing bandits. Thus lowering the ratio for players who get that, would just alienate a lot of players, like - for instance - me. I don't really like the KOS aspect of this game - in fact I hate it - and a way of getting away from it, is going to low pop servers. It's a fair option. And without it I'd probably just - I dunno - play solitaire. Not that you care, but I'd certainly think it would be sweet to still be able to play this game in a rewarding manner, although I'm not a 14 year old nerd with no life only out to KOS and grief.

Also, making it non-rewarding to go on low pop servers would also alienate many of the lone wolves out there, and people - like me - who don't like to play in teams all the time. And let's face it, the only way to get any good gear on a high pop servers is being in some clan, unless you're a beast of a player (or a cheat). There should be an option for the more casual player, and that option is the low pop server that still rewards you with good gear.

Anyway... I'm pretty sure the real reason a lot of people have high end equip isn't low pop servers - no, it's hackers duping and spawning in stuff. Deal with them, and the un-even spread of good gear will vanish.

[00dlez 22]

Haven't sifted through all of it, but I will say the wind factor is a must. This game doesn't, and shouldn't be casual. It's meant to be an intense, rewarding experience that you get more out of the more you play, not the same thing over and over.

However, no company is going to cater strictly to people who want to play a game to it's full potential, there's not as much money to be made compared to catering towards casuals. It, like a good number of suggestions, could simply be a server option. Sniping would be so much more rewarding if it wasn't point and click, and as you stated, would coarse people into playing more like a survivor, and less like a sociopathic ex marine.

How would a veteran player gauge wind speed and direction in between them and their target accurately given the restrictions of the game world (no feeling or "customized actions" like tossing grass up in the air) and restrictions of the graphics to give precise visual cues (allowing trees to blow North-Northeast instead of either North or Northeast)?

Edited September 12, 2012 by 00dlez

[jaws4096 77]

Can anyone else comment on the mechanic for not rendering players who are prone in grass or other cover? My experience has been that players render at all distances, regardless of stance or surrounding terrain.

[nyk_nunya 40]

How would a veteran player gauge wind speed and direction in between them and their target accurately given the restrictions of the game world (no feeling or "customized actions" like tossing grass up in the air) and restrictions of the graphics to give precise visual cues (allowing trees to blow North-Northeast instead of either North or Northeast)?

Though a new system is better implemented in standalone, and item that's an anemometer.

[cptmackay 9]

Well written and I would love to see all of the suggestions implemented. Though I doubt the engine will support it.

Another suggestion in keeping with the sniper ideas: Targets you can set up and examine to see where you hit. Thus encouraging practice with snipers. and other weapons. To learn the quirks of your weapons and to practice.

Edited September 13, 2012 by cptmackay

[DemonGroover 8836]

Great post - have my stash of beans

Point 2 reminds me of the Biathlon in the Winter Olympics.

These Olympians travel on skis for hundreds of metres and then have to lie prone and shoot at targets. To compensate for the shaking aim due to fatigue etc they have to control their breathing and whatnot. They could not simply lie down, take aim and hit the targets. I am assuming that being Olympic athletes that these are some of the best shooters in the world - barring RL snipers.

And yet here we are, bozos waking up on a beach able to make 400m shots after running through the forest for 3 miles. It really breaks the game for me.

I really hope your suggestions are taken on board. When i make a headshot from 100m i want it to mean something, a feat to be proud of, not a shrug of the shoulders as i take aim at another head.