Sleeping and dealing with Alt F4

[SlamSlayer 2]

Sleeping. Seems like something essential to survival. But not exactly something to you can tackle with too much authenticity in a game world. I think I've figured out something, and it would hit two birds with one stone in a sense. Being that DayZ tends to run on a real time 24hour day/night cycle, we have a lot we can do with the idea of sleep. The way you look at it now, every time you log off, you kind of go to "sleep". So why not make it just that, logging=sleeping. Logging off would take 15 seconds and you would be immobile as a laying down to sleep animation played out. Alt F4ing or trying to force log before the game logs you could be penalized. Not right away of course. Because sometimes your computer or the game just locks up. But there would be a log, keeping track of it and any patterns if that is possible (like always logging out under fire, or injured/shot). Ultimately it could result in you being insta killed upon re log. Or a loss of your gear or something. Though I've personally never come across a combat logger, it seems to be a problem and this could be a fix.

You would have a fatigue meter, just like the other meters. Where as 8 hours of sleep gives you 16 hours of activity. This would vary depending on what you're doing of course. So 8 hours for 16 hours is the best case. Doing some hunting, staying nourished through out your play time, not too much on foot traveling. But you WILL travel and you probably won't always be completely nourished. So that is going to skew that number a lot faster. That 16 hours worth of energy is going to get cut down in half, or more, if you spend a long time running from one end of the island to the other, being attacked, injured, malnourished and just generally an active "person". Being that this is a game and not real life, very few (possibly sick lol), if any players would actually live out a real 1:1 time schedule in game. But just like in real life, a lack of sleep can catch up with you. So if you wear yourself out and beyond, you're going to need more than 8 hours to recover (this could also lead into real time injury recovery). SO until you get that, you're going to be at different stages of fatigue. What happens when you're fatigued? Shakes, poor aim, higher chance of getting sick, slower movement speed and even a chance of getting knocked out at random (micro naps).

How would you recover fatigue? Sleeping of course (Duh)! For a goods night sleep you would need the right conditions. Night time, a tent, a sleeping bag and a fire. Sleeping during the day would only count as a "nap". A nap would only give you back a max of 2 hours of rest time, less without at least a tent, 1 hour. Sleeping during the night without a tent would give you back 4hours max (to use it, right click on it and scroll to sleep. Still takes 15 seconds to log though). With a tent, 6. With a sleeping bag 8 hours and beyond. You need to stay warm too of course, otherwise you could wake up with a cold. Sleeping with NOTHING is almost guaranteed to wake up with a cold at a 75/25 chance. Sleeping in just a tent is a 50/50 shot of waking up with a cold. Add a sleeping bag and you jump down to a 25/75 chance of getting sick and adding the fire guarantees you'll wake up fine. But a fire burns for an hour after you log off. Meaning that warm feeling comes with a price of your camp being spotted and raided while you sleep. You shouldn't be able to die, you can't wake up to defend yourself like in real life, but you could wake up to everything gone. As all of your possessions you had on your person can be seen from the tents gear as well.

Edited September 5, 2012 by SlamSlayer

[SystemiK 366]

I have to say I REALLY do not like this idea. Count me in for a no vote...

[SlamSlayer 2]

Could you elaborate why not?

[Bizmal 19]

I like the idea of having a timer to log off. But it should be higher. Like 2min. Other wise maybe have a camp fire or tent would allow instant logging. The dayz night/day cycle blows and take away from the game.

[SlamSlayer 2]

I dont know if you need longer log times. The idea of a log timer is to stop combat logging more than anything. If someone got sniped and survived to get to cover, the sniper probably wont move to go hunt them down. They would sit there for how ever long it takes for the person to move. So its not really changing that situation. But in the middle of combat, this makes it near impossible to run away from the server. Maybe 20 to 30 seconds, but I feel like that might be over kill. But I like the idea of a tent counter acting this otherwise.

What is your problem with the day/night cycle otherwise?

Edited September 6, 2012 by SlamSlayer

[Bizmal 19]

I know it can't be changed but I think people simply move to another server when it starts to get dark. I think it should be shorter and people should have to survive through the night. Amagine the possible gameplay changes with a smaller day night cycle. Zombies being stronger at night or being forced to scavenge a town during the night.

As is day/nights cycles are pointless. I never see anything but day. Night servers are empty.

[SystemiK 366]

It's so many bad ideas I don't even know where to start.

You are suggesting a mechanic which would be completely skewed to benefit people who log out of the game when it is night (in game). Players who only play the game at night (in game) would be penalized in that they are generally active at night, and logging out in daytime (in game) would offer very little toward satisfying your "conditions". A game mechanic which penalizes any particular playstyle is a bad mechanic, plain and simple. Also, I don't know what day is like where you are at, but sleeping during the day works just fine for people who live on my continent.

Those "conditions" of tent/fire/night/sleeping bag to log out or suffer a penalty only adds unnecessary complication to the game and does not allow for many situations (for example, many people don't even HAVE a tent). Don't have a tent? Well too bad you are gonna log back in sick sometime in the next three days, dont have a sleeping bag? heh, you are fucked . Leave a fire burning in your camp for an hour after logout? What's the point of it? (and again, many players do not even HAVE a camp).

Ironically, you have also just given the real campers in this game (those who only camp the rooftops) a bonus in that they move around very little, yet players who are very mobile around the map are given a "movement" penalty. That part would be somewhat "authentic", but again, you are placing a penalty on players with certain playstyles and yet rewarding other styles of play. Bad mechanic.

Ultimately, your mechanic overly complicates something which is currently very simple (logging out of the game at the end of a play session). Can you even imagine trying to explain to a brand new player what they have to accomplish in order to log out of the game for the night without suffering a sickness or fatigue penalty?

I'm sorry, I think those are some terrible ideas...

Edited September 6, 2012 by SystemiK

[Bizmal 19]

It's so many bad ideas I don't even know where to start.

You are suggesting a mechanic which would be completely skewed to benefit people who log out of the game when it is night (in game). Players who only play the game at night (in game) would be penalized in that they are generally active at night, and logging out in daytime (in game) would have very little effect toward satisfying your "conditions". A game mechanic which penalizes any particular playstyle is a bad mechanic, plain and simple. Also, I don't know what day is like where you are at, but sleeping during the day works just fine for people who live on my continent.

Those "conditions" of tent/fire/night/sleeping bag to log out or suffer a penalty only adds unnecessary complication to the game and does not allow for many situations (for example, many people don't even HAVE a tent). Don't have a tent? Well too bad you are gonna log back in sick sometime in the next three days, dont have a sleeping bag? heh, you are fucked . Leave a fire burning in your camp for an hour after logout? What's the point of it? (and again, many players do not even HAVE a camp).

You have also just given players who only camp cities a bonus in that they move around very little, yet players who are very mobile around the map are given a "movement" penalty. That part would be somewhat "authentic", but again, you are placing a penalty on players with certain playstyles and yet rewarding other styles of play. Bad mechanic.

Ultimately, your mechanic overly complicates something which is currently very simple (logging out of the game at the end of a play session). Can you even imagine trying to explain to a brand new player what they have to accomplish in order to log out of the game for the night without suffering a sickness or fatigue penalty.

I'm sorry, I think those are some terrible ideas...

I disagree, it rocked in UO.

[SystemiK 366]

I disagree, it rocked in UO.

Shall we add some dragons while we are at it?

[SlamSlayer 2]

The idea of a sleeping penalty during the day is to help counter act exactly the other point, night servers are almost always empty. People dont fear the night, they simply switch server. I would bet you thats not what Rocket had in mind. Otherwise, yeah, we wouldnt even need a cycle. Whats wrong with punishing a player in a survival game? What game are YOU playing? No food? Starve to death. No heat pack, catch a cold. No bandage? Bleed out. No one to help you with a blood bag? Shitty vision. This game even literally knocks you out for up to 10 minutes at a time where you can not do ANYTHING. Youre already always being punished. If anything the game needs to be harder. Not to mention a broken leg means crawling until someone fixes it. Not limping, crawling. On an island....

Those camping players still need to move to a literal camp when they decide to log or they wake up with a cold and cant aim over all the sneezing and coughing. Also, there goes their stealthy cover too. And I hope they didnt set up camp too close to their "spot" or its going to be raided real fast.

Edited September 6, 2012 by SlamSlayer

[SlamSlayer 2]

You already spawn with no map or weapon with a complicated buggy inventory system to deal with in a random spot and no direction. I dont see how explaining to them what sleeping is is going to scare them any more.

Edited September 6, 2012 by SlamSlayer

[TehKolo 10]

I know it can't be changed but I think people simply move to another server when it starts to get dark. I think it should be shorter and people should have to survive through the night. Amagine the possible gameplay changes with a smaller day night cycle. Zombies being stronger at night or being forced to scavenge a town during the night.

As is day/nights cycles are pointless. I never see anything but day. Night servers are empty.

The only thing Rocket could do about empty night time servers (without ruining the game) is make it more desirable. Adding higher chances of rare loot spawning/crashed helicopters and other things would be a good way to fix this. But if you make someone survive through the night, it will be no fun.

[Bizmal 19]

Shall we add some dragons while we are at it?

Negative there is no such things as dragons.. Now that you're clear on that. Let's talk about something more... Manly.

Zombie Dragons.. Now there's an idea.

Pssssft.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Bizmal

[Bizmal 19]

The only thing Rocket could do about empty night time servers (without ruining the game) is make it more desirable. Adding higher chances of rare loot spawning/crashed helicopters and other things would be a good way to fix this. But if you make someone survive through the night, it will be no fun.

I'm not so sure. If the day night cycles were short enough it wouldn't be an issue. But the game does need a dificulty boost.

[SystemiK 366]

The idea of a sleeping penalty during the day is to help counter act exactly the other point, night servers are almost always empty. People dont fear the night, they simply switch server.

So:

Sleeping (logging out) at night offers an advantage.

Sleeping (logging out) during daytime delivers a penalty.

Your mechanic would encourage people to leave their daytime server at the end of their play session and find a night time server (to log out in). Net 0.

[SlamSlayer 2]

You're still getting the two hours from a day sleep. Also its no different from peopld logging out to find a day server when the sun sets.... You could add sleeping pills to the game. Take those before you log and get the 8 hours no matter what (doesnt save you from a cold though, but sleeping during the day with the sun out keeps you warm anyway. Unless the server could keep track of if it rained while you were out....).

BUT if its still really "too hardcore" or too much, take the night/day penalty out of the equation. But you still need a full set up for the best nights sleep and it DOES balance out against campers as I said.

Edited September 6, 2012 by SlamSlayer

[SystemiK 366]

You could add sleeping pills to the game. Take those before you log and get the 8 hours no matter what (doesnt save you from a cold though, but sleeping during the day with the sun out keeps you warm anyway. Unless the server could keep track of if it rained while you were out....).

Ah yes, lets just keep adding more complications to the formula until we get it just right.

I'm going to file this suggestion away now, good luck with your idea...

[SlamSlayer 2]

Is that not the point? Expanding and adding? This is another layer to set the game apart. Why did you first play? The thrill of the idea of a real survival game. Not FFA death match.

Balancing the formula until you get it right is the point of an alpha. Beyond this potential problem I see no need to add or subtract much of anything. You either add sleeping pills or take out the night/day penalty. Simple.

Edited September 6, 2012 by SlamSlayer

[xximrtwoixx 104]

I like that being forced to survive through the night equals ruining the game.

I like the suggestion, the day penalty not so much because people adapt to whatever sleep patern they need.

I like the scale that the different items allow, and that fire can be used as a short cut with disadvantages.

[liquidcactus 719]

You have some good points in there but i dont really dig it at all.

Theres no real point to sleeping, i thought about the idea aswell. I just dont think that there is any real point at all ? its not as if the fatigue system has any true detremental effect on your overall wellbeing and or physical performance from running and gunning all day. Heck even broken bones dont mean shit if you have a morphine stick.

Anyway, i think untill some major health/fatigue blah blah game mechanic over hall happens, I dont think it seems necessary..

Plus there is so many other things(i think) that are so much more important that need to be implemented other than catching some zZz's (no pun intended) :P

[Hetstaine 10852]

We play at night just as much as we do during the day, more often than not without nvgs. We like the night. The main two night (our time zone) servers we frequent can have up to 20 people on, not everyone runs away when it gets dark, but they are no 3dp no nametag no ch servers. Playing only day to us is totally boring , we are even quiet happy with the full time cycle. The night is not for everyone ..and neither is the day but i hope Rocket does not decide to dumb it down with a 4-6 hour night/day cycle or something equally silly

I have faith in him on that though as he iis not here to pander to that sort of stuff even if it cause a player drop..

25/75 chance of a cold ..in a sleeping bag, in a tent...with a fire ? If chances were anywhere near that high, even without a fire, everyone would stay at home and never go camping, definitely no on that aspect. It is not hardcore, it is overkill. Couple of weeks and you will not see a healthy person in game.

I am all for hardcore but i dont want to be playing a game where everyone is sick and slow because of a flawed unrealistic game mechanic,.25/75 is way too high dude ;) You go camping much ? My kids get a lot sicker in the city watching tv than they ever have by being in the outdoors away from people. Rain, snow or sun. Use something like 0.5/100 in normal weather and maybe work your way up as conditions worsen.

What happens if you do not find a tent or sleeping bag spawn in a few weeks of playing ? Took me forever to find my first tent.Can i sleep in a house, in one of the beds, and reduce my chances even more as compared to the outdoors ? A sleep mechanic like you suggest needs a few more things added as well. I should not just have to be forced find a tent and sleeping bag. I could use a tarp and blankets, wood and tarps and sheets etc to make my spot, i could dig a hole and cover myself with a makeshift roof etc Heck i could sleep in a car with a sheep skin :)

I would not be taking sleeping tablets in an apocalypse or any grim world situation.

I believe there needs to be some sort of system for the alt f4/ combat logging deal for sure, but we have had plenty of times where for various reasons we have been kicked from a server, only ever once in close proximity to another player, but i bet you they thought i logged. If the 15 sec timer rule was in i would have been dead and looted. For a 1 in a hardly ever chance i know we could live with it as just unlucky, We never log so dont really consider it an issue whatever they come up with, plus we always log out in the forest under trees. Never in a built up area,

You may have the basis of an idea for sure , but it is the implementation that needs to be really well thought through :)

[Flipseytroll 0]

I think your idea of an 15 sec logout time is great. It would (hopefully) remove some of the log-out-in-combat problems that I'm experiencing with other players.

But the penalty thing... I just don't think it's a good idea to add "penalties" to a game if you just didn't log out in a good enough way. As others have said, not many people have tents, or matches - should they be punished because they haven't found good enough loot before logging out?

I mean, I have played for weeks, and found a tent just yesterday.

[Flipseytroll 0]

And also, I don't see the day/night cycle as a problem. There are good benefits of looting big towns in darkness, just lay down and the zeds lose you fast. Not to mention that it's harder for other players to see you as well.

[bob lee swagger* 1]

my idea is a countdown when the player press abort, like 20 seconds countdown and if the player moves a feet, the countdown stops counting, and if the player alt-f4, his character still stand there for 20 seconds. I'm gonna give a rediculous example of it, but it's just like Tibia (use to play when i was a kid :S) if you quit during a fight or very after a fight ur character still be in game for some time.

[rushcrush 20]

When people suggests things on Dayz, they just suggests things that will show the bright side of the suggestion.

You never talked about the side effect of this suggestion, and yes this is a horrible suggestion.