What type of game was/is/should it be?

[axelnito 2]

Hello everyone,

I don't really think this is a suggestion but I guess I will try my luck.

I am asking myself what DayZ should really be (or better said what it has the potential of being). I will list a couple of things I think people want it to be and then I'll give my input.

a) An MMORPG with safe zones, so that we can all trade and feel safe at some point during our gameplay.

B) COD with the twist that you are not only going against people but also zombies

c) A real survival game.

I think what we have right now is B), but worse. Right now there is not even a need to look out for zombies, they are utterly useless and as soon as one learns 2 or 3 tricks you are never going to die from a zombie attack. Guns spawn left and right and I am not only talking about pistols but military grade guns, food is in every corner and medical equipment never goes bad. The survival is limited to eating, drinking and some basic healing.

I am pretty sure nobody wants a) and if they did they can just wait for warz.

Now to c). I say we should exploit the "survival issue" and I mean hardcore style. I have programmed (nothing with games) so I know some of this will sound really complex to make it into software, but lets leave that thinking to the devs. Surviving is really hard. We live in a world were we get everything we need at almost no work (i.e. you have to have money to get anything you want), but take that away and 90% of the population will find itself starving to death preatty fast. I am not even talking about hard stuff, I am talking about easy stuff "is this water potable?" "can I eat this meat?" "how do I bandage myself If I am the one injured" "How fast can I gather wood for a fire" "How long can I actually be productive in a day" "Do I have a good eyesight?" "Can I carry this big pile of things alone?" ... you get the idea. I mean the game should be people trying to survive on real world terms. I find it funny how we dont spawn with anything that might be used for defending, but as soon as we get an axe, a box of matches and a hunting knife, we become Rambo (i.e. we can chop down entire forests, gut a deer, start a fire, cook the meat, gut another deer in the process and so on). Also we can carry a toolbox, axe, primary weapon, secondary weapon, gps, map, our old grandmas and so on and we can still sprint like hell if we need to. Got bitten by a zombie? no problem bandage yourself (its not like its hard to bandage yourself when it is you who is in pain and stuff), got shot 2 times? no problem bandage yourself, have a broken leg? here this inyection will fix that not only instantly but with 0 side effects. Not even the batteries in our flashlights die off, really??.

I think the problem was that the devs werent really sure if the game should be survivable or not. There is another zombie game (I wont name it, because I dont know all the forum rules), where all you can hope to do is survive X amount of days. You are gonna die, it doesnt matter what you do you'll die. Food becomes bad, taking pain killers has side effects, not sleeping as side effects, carrying too much has side effects, trying to repair something for the first time has consequences (things explode when you dont do it right), being alone makes you crazy, etc. That game has the survival thing pretty worked out, but it lacks the FPS and game immersion that DayZ has.

I am pretty sure that if we make the game as hard (ok maybe not as hard but relatively hard) as real life, we will automatically see the number of bandits, the number of COD kiddies go down and the joy of play go up.

I really dont know what the dev team is trying to achieve, but I was lead to believe that this was a survival game not COD with added dumb zombies.

[twinturbonet (DayZ) 294]

Zombies are generally easy to deal with, but! Let that one stupid ass zombie hit you and break your leg, and that's a whole other story. There is always that one chance that a zombie will make your day THAT much worse. I wouldn't say they are completely useless.

Lol and you said you weren't going to mention another game, but you already did... WAR Z. DUH. :rolleyes:

Edited September 4, 2012 by twinturbonet

[Rugoz 2]

Well right now dayz' gameplay suffers from:

- Too much walking around. Seriously, 90% of the time you're just pushing down the 'w' button to get from one place to the other. I don't have the time or patience for this. There need to be more vehicles or some kind of teleport system (rather not).

- The zombies are no threat whatsoever. Just run into buildings or out of town, turn around and shoot them. They should be faster an kill you with 2-3 hits.

- No teamplay. Unless you're in a clan there is no teamplay whatsoever. One should not be able to survive in a town without someone else covering one's ass. There should be zones where people can meet and form groups.

- No long-term goals. Looting alone won't make me happy.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Rugoz

[axelnito 2]

@twinturbonet

Oh sorry about the warz thing, but I have seen it mentioned on other posts. I guess that is why I didnt think it twice.

I am no expert on the game, but zombies are a problem the first 10 max 20 mins of the game (which is the time it takes you to find an axe and an extra bandage). The rest of the time zombies are "does things getting in the way of me looting this place faster" instead of the reason you should really think about looting a place or not, and I think that is a major flaw.

@Rugoz

Walking 2 hours to get to a place you have to get to is part of life. I think this is where I differ from most people. Most people want it to be a game and I want it to be someting close to a "Virtual world where I dont really have to go to class or something, but survive a zombie outburst". I would be ok with more realism in the game. I bet if the game were more "real" teamplay would come automatically because that one n00b you found on the coast is worth more alive than dead (which is true IRL). Learn term goal? survive. I really dont know about zombies being faster or not, I mean they are rotten flesh and def should not be able to sprint like we do, but they also have one advantage... they are dead, that means they shouldnt need the resting, healing and other stuff that we mortals still have to deal with. Granted really slow zombies would be just as useless, but I suggest if zombies perform 80% what humans can I would be ok with it (think that 80% from your normal jog is still pretty fast and you cant jog forever, but they can walk forever).

I also dont know why handguns, rifles are so easy to find, just laying around. Some countries have pretty tight gun control policies. Make lil towns have a police station and the woods have random "forest patrol houses" where you can find guns.

[twinturbonet (DayZ) 294]

@twinturbonet

Oh sorry about the warz thing, but I have seen it mentioned on other posts. I guess that is why I didnt think it twice.

I am no expert on the game, but zombies are a problem the first 10 max 20 mins of the game (which is the time it takes you to find an axe and an extra bandage). The rest of the time zombies are "does things getting in the way of me looting this place faster" instead of the reason you should really think about looting a place or not, and I think that is a major flaw.

Lol it's cool man, I don't really think anyone cares if you mention a game, as long as you're not just posting a thread solely to bash or saying that your are bashing within' their forums (heh heh <_<). I feel ya, the zombies are a bit easy once you receive the all mighty axe. However, if you run across that one zombie that breaks your leg (which is so dumb) then it can really piss you off, IF you don't have morphine.

All I know is that in the stand alone, zombies better not be able to break your bone so easily. IF they fix that, then yes... I agree with you that zombies are too easy.

[hatfieldcw 184]

I'd like to see survival more central, too. Many servers don't even have night anymore, just restarting every six hours so it's always daytime. You don't worry about getting cold, or wet, or sick. I've played a lot, and I've had antibiotics a few times, but I've never needed them. If you aren't bleeding or fractured, you're pretty much worry-free.

I used to play me some Clonk Planet, and the arctic level was my favorite. You had to stay inside almost all the time to keep from freezing, and even after you killed a seal and made an anorak and waterproofed it with blubber you were looking at a few minutes before you have to get back to the igloo. If you fall in the water, you've got about twenty seconds to get out and build a fire or you're done. That's some intense gameplay, with very little margin for error, even before your LAN buddy kayaks over there and starts chucking harpoons at you.

My dream for DayZ is a relentless roguelike experience. I want to die about as often as I do now, but instead of Elekro snipers and trigger-happy randoms on the road, I want to be brought down by zombies, by cold, by infection, by exposure. I want some Hunger Games crap going on out there, to the point where a chance encounter with a player almost always means an alliance. Here's my recommendation:

Reduced inventory space. We start out with 12 primary, 8 secondary and 12 belt slots, plus an 8-slot pack that can be expanded to 24, and is usually at 20. That's a lot of effing gear right there. You can carry everything you could possibly need right on your back. Plenty of food, drink, medicine, ammo, tools and materials. Unless you're hauling car parts, you're not hurting for space, even when you have a second primary in the pack. You're a mule. If you had to choose between ammo and medicine, there'd be less shooting going on, and bandits would really be living kill to kill, rather than having a whole carebear kit along with seven DMR magazines.

Drop main and secondary inventory by half, to 6 and 4 slots respectively. Restrict us to 4 tools, cut backpack size by half, start us out with a vest pouch and have the patrol pack take the place of the vest pouch in residential spawns and supermarkets. Hatchet can no longer be put on the belt, it's always a weapon, always ten slots. It retains its right-click wood harvesting ability when equipped. Primary weapons cannot be placed in packs, even ALICE and Coyote. Sidearms take only one backpack slot. Car wheels and engine parts, when carried, act like a body being carried, reducing travel speed and preventing the use of weapons.

This will seriously impact gameplay. It'll make it slower. It'll make it tougher. You can no longer carry all your gear plus a cow worth of raw meat, so you'll leave a lot behind when you butcher an animal. You won't be able to leave Cherno with three morphine injectors and two bloodbags every time, because you'll have no room left for ammo and food. Other players will be worth more alive than dead, because you'll want them around with the medicine and food you're unable to haul, and killing them will do you little good, since you can't carry away the stuff you need. Bandits will kill a guy, eat his beans right there on the spot, and head out looking for another guy to prey upon before they get hungry again. Medics will depend on a team to keep them protected, while the team will depend on them to have medicine. Everyone will want to be with "The guy with the ax". We'll have threads here about loadouts and equipment that don't end with, "And then as many primary mags and bandages as you can fit, I usually have 6 of each".

[Rugoz 2]

Walking 2 hours to get to a place you have to get to is part of life.

If you play 1h dayz every evening you want to experience more than just pushing down 'w' til your finger hurts. Realism is nice, but obviously people don't play dayz as if their lives were at stake, so lets not exaggerate.

Besides, the main issue with dayz wasn't even mentioned, namely that its not a MMO. The world of dayz should be persistent and thousands of players should play together, like in the MMORPG we know.

[Captain"hawkeye" 0]

@twinturbonet

Oh sorry about the warz thing, but I have seen it mentioned on other posts. I guess that is why I didnt think it twice.

I am no expert on the game, but zombies are a problem the first 10 max 20 mins of the game (which is the time it takes you to find an axe and an extra bandage). The rest of the time zombies are "does things getting in the way of me looting this place faster" instead of the reason you should really think about looting a place or not, and I think that is a major flaw.

@Rugoz

Walking 2 hours to get to a place you have to get to is part of life. I think this is where I differ from most people. Most people want it to be a game and I want it to be someting close to a "Virtual world where I dont really have to go to class or something, but survive a zombie outburst". I would be ok with more realism in the game. I bet if the game were more "real" teamplay would come automatically because that one n00b you found on the coast is worth more alive than dead (which is true IRL). Learn term goal? survive. I really dont know about zombies being faster or not, I mean they are rotten flesh and def should not be able to sprint like we do, but they also have one advantage... they are dead, that means they shouldnt need the resting, healing and other stuff that we mortals still have to deal with. Granted really slow zombies would be just as useless, but I suggest if zombies perform 80% what humans can I would be ok with it (think that 80% from your normal jog is still pretty fast and you cant jog forever, but they can walk forever).

I also dont know why handguns, rifles are so easy to find, just laying around. Some countries have pretty tight gun control policies. Make lil towns have a police station and the woods have random "forest patrol houses" where you can find guns.

zombies lack access to the adrenal gland which allows us to surpass are physical limits in times of dire need. so I suggest zombies run speed 110% of human run speed but we should be able to sprint to lets say 130% for 5sec or so.

[axelnito 2]

@Rugoz

I understand what you are saying, but that could be easily be fixed with a different level of difficulty (which already exist). I dont want DayZ to be an MMORPG in the sense that I would not like to see a "Medic" class an "Engineer" class and so on. One should be able to define when you create a character some kind of "past experience" which will make you more effective in some areas (so for example if you put medic, your bandage will hold longer and have less % of getting infected), but the twist is that even if you clicked on "medic" at the beginning and you fix 10 cars, you should be able to become more efficient in car repairing. Also these experiences should get deleted as soon as you die.

Also there are games like flight simulator where you actually can simulate a transatlantic flight.... and you can imagine how "boring" this could be for some, but for the people that always wanted to be a pilots this is "OMFG AWESOME!!!", so just because you dont find realism all that important in a game doesnt mean some people wont love it.

@a_professional_medic

Makes sense what you say, but I would say the devs should really think about how our "being alive" advantage should be translated into the game. I would really like the ability to sprint to decay after a short time, but be able to put some kind of distance between me and the zombie in this small amount of time. Picture this, yo go into town all sneaky and you turn a corner and see a zombie right infront of you, you then sprint in one direction as fast as you can for a couple of seconds and then have to slow down or even stop to take a breath behind a house, but you know the zombie saw you and will be moving in your general direction, while attracting more zombies.

One thing that I didnt really think about while doing the OP is the fact, that if teamplay is made to be so important (which would make it realistic) the problem becomes how to keep people together? Imagine you have a small group of friends, but 2 are in vacation and wont play what do you do with them?or the other way around you always play with a clan and decide today you dont want to pay cause its sunny outside... should your whole team have to say.. "ok.. I guess we will play tomorrow cause one person doesnt want to play today??"

Edited September 6, 2012 by axelnito

[Max Planck 7174]

Moved to General Discussion.

[sostronk 334]

I'd like to see survival more central, too. Many servers don't even have night anymore, just restarting every six hours so it's always daytime. You don't worry about getting cold, or wet, or sick. I've played a lot, and I've had antibiotics a few times, but I've never needed them. If you aren't bleeding or fractured, you're pretty much worry-free.

I used to play me some Clonk Planet, and the arctic level was my favorite. You had to stay inside almost all the time to keep from freezing, and even after you killed a seal and made an anorak and waterproofed it with blubber you were looking at a few minutes before you have to get back to the igloo. If you fall in the water, you've got about twenty seconds to get out and build a fire or you're done. That's some intense gameplay, with very little margin for error, even before your LAN buddy kayaks over there and starts chucking harpoons at you.

My dream for DayZ is a relentless roguelike experience. I want to die about as often as I do now, but instead of Elekro snipers and trigger-happy randoms on the road, I want to be brought down by zombies, by cold, by infection, by exposure. I want some Hunger Games crap going on out there, to the point where a chance encounter with a player almost always means an alliance. Here's my recommendation:

Reduced inventory space. We start out with 12 primary, 8 secondary and 12 belt slots, plus an 8-slot pack that can be expanded to 24, and is usually at 20. That's a lot of effing gear right there. You can carry everything you could possibly need right on your back. Plenty of food, drink, medicine, ammo, tools and materials. Unless you're hauling car parts, you're not hurting for space, even when you have a second primary in the pack. You're a mule. If you had to choose between ammo and medicine, there'd be less shooting going on, and bandits would really be living kill to kill, rather than having a whole carebear kit along with seven DMR magazines.

Drop main and secondary inventory by half, to 6 and 4 slots respectively. Restrict us to 4 tools, cut backpack size by half, start us out with a vest pouch and have the patrol pack take the place of the vest pouch in residential spawns and supermarkets. Hatchet can no longer be put on the belt, it's always a weapon, always ten slots. It retains its right-click wood harvesting ability when equipped. Primary weapons cannot be placed in packs, even ALICE and Coyote. Sidearms take only one backpack slot. Car wheels and engine parts, when carried, act like a body being carried, reducing travel speed and preventing the use of weapons.

This will seriously impact gameplay. It'll make it slower. It'll make it tougher. You can no longer carry all your gear plus a cow worth of raw meat, so you'll leave a lot behind when you butcher an animal. You won't be able to leave Cherno with three morphine injectors and two bloodbags every time, because you'll have no room left for ammo and food. Other players will be worth more alive than dead, because you'll want them around with the medicine and food you're unable to haul, and killing them will do you little good, since you can't carry away the stuff you need. Bandits will kill a guy, eat his beans right there on the spot, and head out looking for another guy to prey upon before they get hungry again. Medics will depend on a team to keep them protected, while the team will depend on them to have medicine. Everyone will want to be with "The guy with the ax". We'll have threads here about loadouts and equipment that don't end with, "And then as many primary mags and bandages as you can fit, I usually have 6 of each".

Some of this stuff is not going to happen. The problem is the game is designed so that lone wolves can play lone wolf. But reducing all these slots is going to heavily favor Clans who run in packs. Rocket has indicated he doesn't want that, he wants it to be balanced so players can play by themselves if they want.

[director 12]

Drop main and secondary inventory by half, to 6 and 4 slots respectively. Restrict us to 4 tools, cut backpack size by half, start us out with a vest pouch and have the patrol pack take the place of the vest pouch in residential spawns and supermarkets. Hatchet can no longer be put on the belt, it's always a weapon, always ten slots. It retains its right-click wood harvesting ability when equipped. Primary weapons cannot be placed in packs, even ALICE and Coyote. Sidearms take only one backpack slot. Car wheels and engine parts, when carried, act like a body being carried, reducing travel speed and preventing the use of weapons

i like this. backpack can stay same as now becouse you will need much more things to put there and it will be full very quickly. diferent tools, and other things, for ppl who play alone would block their backpack so they wont have space for spare weapon making them also to look for allies.

Of course they need to make more good tools becouse right now there is 3 good tools items and other arent very usefull.

[crockett (DayZ) 41]

This is a tactical PVP game. Zombies are just part of the backdrop or scenery.

If you want safe zones then go play WoW or some other glorified MMO. This is a PVP game that makes you choose how you intend to survive. You can either kill other players or try to be friendly.. It's up to you but because this is a sandbox so to speak, the others have the option to try & kill you even if you try to be friendly. ( there needs to be a reason to want to be friendly to try and balance this out)

IMO far too many play this game like they are trying to farm WoW gold all day. They play the game with out actually playing the game, it's like they are squirrels constantly collecting nuts to burry under a tree.

The only semi safe zones should be the ability to create a home base that gives you a little bit of safety out side of the crappy tent system. In real life it would be much easier to hide/protect your stuff than it is in this game. You should be granted a small amount of safety in that kind of manor but not invulnerability as you should always be in certain amount of danger.

Edited September 6, 2012 by crockett

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

I really just hope Rocket sticks to his vision of what the game should be. Really the player base and the corporate suits have no place in game design. Both have pigeon holed the whole industry.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Pendragon

[director 12]

@crockett

arent that what you talk about allready in ARMA ? rocket wonts something new. PvP isn't new. Than he can remove zombies and give us map without them with some other apocalypse scenario and put more players on servers. That would be nice PvP also but than that is not zombie survival game.

[hawc 63]

...

I think that would make it too hard and not fun. A better solution is to give items weight. So more weight means slower running and stuff like that.

[cfnz 15]

I really just hope Rocket sticks to his vision of what the game should be. Really the player base and the corporate suits have no place in game design.

I agree. I do wonder if the player base has twisted the game into something it wasn't really intended to be, though I guess there's been some good lessons learnt from it.

I know I'm hoping for a game that revolves around survival. If it doesn't turn out that way, so be it.

[CM LEGION 29]

I'd just like to see a few add ons, (bigger map, character customization)

Number one thing though, better fucking engine. Can't even play first person because you feel like your in a tier 3 earthquake.

[Jackftw 310]

It WAS a game about survival with your fellow man, it IS a deathmatch, and it SHOULD be about survival.

[axelnito 2]

Glad to see many people think the same way I do. The game feels like it deprecated into something we were lead to believe it wasnt going to be.

Could anyone post what Rocket actually said his view on what the game should be is/was?

[crockett (DayZ) 41]

@crockett

arent that what you talk about allready in ARMA ? rocket wonts something new. PvP isn't new. Than he can remove zombies and give us map without them with some other apocalypse scenario and put more players on servers. That would be nice PvP also but than that is not zombie survival game.

Arma is like most FPS where you already know who is on your side and who isn't. With DayZ you never know who is a good guy & who is a bad guy which is what gives it more depth. DayZ is like a tactical shooter with a social side and your job is to survive with lot of other people trying to do the same and compete for the same stuff.

Edited September 7, 2012 by crockett

[jdz (DayZ) 238]

To me, DayZ is the ultimate PVP game.

No other game is as intense, or anywhere near.

A lot of time can go into collecting all of this gear and 1 well placed sniper shot or shitty comms can undo all of that.

I understand that if I want purely PVP action that I could just go and play COD and/or BF3 but it's no where near as intense, I didn't go through hours of work just to die and respawn with uber leet gear again.

DayZ has and always will be about the PVP for me

Edited September 7, 2012 by jdz

[axelnito 2]

@jdz

That DayZ should have PVP is not really in debate. The problem is right now its PVP with the added factor that zombies walk around slowing down your PVP experience (like I said before right now zombies are the "things making your loot run slower"). I want (thought Dayz) was a game were the PVP action was mostly because "is killing this person easier than getting the exact same loot without him in the long run?". If zombies and other "external" influences are made harder one would think twice about shooting anyone and would add to the adrenaline rush we get (got before the game was full of hackers).

[christopherwright_75@hotmail.co.uk 109]

I think the people saying this game is meant for PvP need to go play ARMA, while this game has a PvP element it has so much more that is ruined by noskill wannabe snipers taking multiple shots from a few hundred meters with AS50's to kill weaponless new spawns (i.e. 90% of those that camp the main cities and coast)....... saying that they likely do it on DAYZ because they wouldnt last 3 seconds on vanilla ARMA where the OPFOR would be just as well armed.

Some of the PvP is great dont get me wrong I'm not a carebear, nothing beats the complex ambushes people plan and execute or even the skilled snipers that one shot you from inventive locations.

Survival needs to be made harder...... hell player numbers have dropped anyway, make survival harder and lose the 10000 wannabe sniper kids on the coast (they wont hack it) I bet doing so would regain many of the original audience.

[director 12]

Arma is like most FPS where you already know who is on your side and who isn't. With DayZ you never know who is a good guy & who is a bad guy which is what gives it more depth. DayZ is like a tactical shooter with a social side and your job is to survive with lot of other people trying to do the same and compete for the same stuff.

than you are not talking about zombie survival game. zombies in this game are made to be main enemy. If game dont go that way i dont wont to waste my time here. If we all play for PvP than those zombies are just free recon group for us as it is right now on most servers.

On the other hand i would like to see game with those thing about which you talking. But than give us diferent scenario, no zombies, only ppl who kill each other on huge map with loot and similar thing like in dayz. But honestly i would never played dayz if it was just another PvP. I came here becouse of survival zombie apocalypse, that is the thing which sell this game, not PvP.

PvP becomed most players choice becouse zombies are simply boring not becouse most ppl came here becouse of that.