Zed Mechanics

[kebman 213]

I'm not going to talk about zed AI here, but the game mechanics surrounding the zeds.

As of today, zeds are only a bit annoying. They're necessary to make it a challenge to get gear, that's all. They're not the main challenge, even though they can become a challenge if you do something stupid. Also it's a nice experience to have to learn how to loose them. But when you already know that, they succumb to being a minor annoyance.

It would be very cool if the zeds could become more of a challenge - not more annoying, but for instance that it's more important to get rid of them, or that you are somehow better rewarded for killing them.

As of today, you are punished for shooting them. The punishment is loss of ammo, which is of course fine, but also that more will come, leading to more loss of ammo. And even if you clear out an area, they will just respawn after a while. Maybe that's really my biggest gripe - that I think they respawn to quickly - and not that you'll have to defend yourself against the horde if you do something stupid like shooting.

The winnings are at best temporary, that the zeds stops bothering you for a while. I think that's the thing that bothers me the most. They only go away for a while. Somehow that doesn't feel real to me. The whole thing with zeds spawning everywhere, it just doesn't seem right. Even though we're a lot of people on earth, there isn't an unlimited supply of "us", and especially not in small villages and remote areas.

I'm OK with aggroing zeds being used by enemies to spot where there are survivors. That's cool. However I'm uneasy with zeds only spawning where there are survivors. Sure, I see how you need to save computing recourses, however, with zeds only spawning where there are players, it becomes too easy to home in on survivors. Maybe a few roamers would mix things up, or a pack patrolling the highway.

On the other hand, with the lack of so many other clues as to the whereabouts of survivors, I guess you have to have something to reveal them by... However I wish game mech would present other and more ingenious methods for revealing survivor proximity, like, say, the clues a hunter or police investigator would look for.

I usually roleplay it a little, playing to myself that I'm awakening them by my proximity, but I don't completely buy it, most importantly because there is no way I'd awaken zeds over 100 metres away just by my mere proximity. Also I know more will come the moment I've finished killing a pack. It's not like there would be an unlimited supply of zeds in any given area, and it's not like they would react to gun shots several kilometres away either, even though their reaction to gun shots is something I really like.

To sum up I don't really have an answer to these problems, but I know they're there and that they can be improved upon in some way. Feel free to share your thoughts and ideas aobut how it could be done.

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

Interesting stuff indeed.

I've nothing major to add solutionwise other than to say I too agree that something is "broken" with the current mechanic.

I would prefer far less zeds about, but once encountered they should be a real threat as OP states, they are more of an annoyance at the moment.

Rgds

LoK

[kebman 213]

Aggreed!

Actually, sometimes the game is at its most spooky when I go into a city and don't see any zedz. Kind of like going into the wood and not hearing any birds singing. It gives an eerie feeling.

If you asked Hitchcock, he'd say that if you put too many of them in, the audience would simply get used to them, and not see them as enough of a threat.

Also, I kind of miss the part of the zombie lore that say that you should never be bitten by a zombie, lest you have a chance of getting sick and becoming one yourself.

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

Yes, the "don't get bitten" direction is missing IMHO, it needs some thinking to get it right but should be in game IMHO.

I also would be happy to see the occasional wandering group of zeds, perhaps attacking livestock. And possibly a Zed Swarm, but that should be very rare indeed( and would be horribly difficult to overcome, so maybe ultra rare if at all.)

The Hitchcockian / ALIEN (first film) / the THING style of Zed is much more my cup of tea rather than boat loads of irritating ones.

Rgds

LoK

[kebman 213]

As of now, they just roam around. What if you made them fewer, but more cunning? They could be standing behind a corner, waiting to get the drop on you, for instance. That would scare the shit outta me. Also, I'd love it.

Also lacking: That slow moving, but determined, horde...

[Ipurgepeople 106]

The thing that bothers me the most about zed mechanics is that if you aggro'd the horde, and begin killing the horde, they respawn pretty much as fast as you kill them, and will hence aggro to you as you continue to clear them out. This leads to an infinite (Or near infinite, as it seems after a few waves they slow down on the spawn rate).

For instance, my buddy shot his M24 on top of the ATC tower in Balota. I watched as every zed from the air strip, and some of the surrounding fields aggroed to us (about 20 in total), but none of the ones from the town or anything showed up. By the time we had finally finished killing the waves of zombies, we had gained around 50 kills (combined). He was watching from the roof as they spawned and immediately ran to us. It was ridiculous. And they weren't aggroing from gunshots, either, but simply decided they didn't like our faces.

[kebman 213]

The thing that bothers me the most about zed mechanics is that if you aggro'd the horde, and begin killing the horde, they respawn pretty much as fast as you kill them, and will hence aggro to you as you continue to clear them out. This leads to an infinite (Or near infinite, as it seems after a few waves they slow down on the spawn rate).

QFT

Yeah, that's a real problem, and even though it brings the "horde" aspect into play, it just doesn't feel authentic.

[Raventhorn 43]

Actually been thinking alot about this myself.

If they remove the respawn it will be too easy, if they don`t they just pile up forever and ever (is it even possible to clear something, other then small sites like heli crash or deer stands?)

I think it could be fun if they introduce diffrent types of zombies who have diffrent behavior, dmg and hitpoints. like with the military zombies only expand that idea.

And maybe also set a limit for how many will spawn so you can clear for while and actually use your gun in a town. (now that is just silly).

A police zombie could have more hitpoints and do more dmg to you, and there could be places that you should avoid due to the zombies in that area.

Cheers :)

[jdu82 2]

Wow. Excellent points so far! I definitely like the wandering infected suggestion. Also decreasing the spawn rate and spreading them out with the occasional horde is a great one, too. Now, I'm not a player of Day Z, but I have had my interest peaked recently and have a few things to say. I can get a bit wordy with my opinions so please bare with me... it'll be worth the read for any Night of the Living Dead fans among us.

I was recently watching a first impression video of the Day Z modification for Arma II and it started out awesome. The player was roaming around by shore side in a crouched posture taking his time to check his surroundings. It was very immersive and realistic. I felt like if I were to be playing this game it would be the best true to life zombie apocalypse simulation that I could get my hands on. Then he spotted a zombie off in the distance and all was still good with the world. The way it was moving was perfect; like you would expect someone with a virus, a sickness, should move.

The player then gave away his position and the zombie approached the player in the blink of an eye... faster than humanly possible. The animations look ridiculous and it completely severed any emotional investment and immersion that I may have been feeling up to that point. Everything in this game looks so realistic and I was expecting some true George A. Romero's Night of the Living Dead zombies. Instead they turn out to be of the Danny Boyle (28 Days Later) variety! And that just killed it for me.

The video game Dead Island hit the nail on the head when they programmed their zombies. Some faster than others, some harder to kill than most. However, not even the "runners" moved faster that humanly possible and that's what made it feel so emotional; so real. I was hoping since they were remaking this game as its own entity from the ground up that this little deal breaker would be addressed... but so far no one has spoken on the topic.

Should the zombies run when alarmed? Yes.

Should ALL of the zombies run when alarned? No.

This IS a sickness we're dealing with afterall and it's going to infect different people in various ways. Zombies who once were human are infected with a "virus". It is certainly not going to improve their athletic capabilities nor make them superhuman for that matter. Since everything in the game is already so representative of real life it's my opinion that the zombies should maintain that realism and not break it (like the current state of the mod).

Also as in Dead Island, the infected should be more difficult to kill. This should only be accomplished through damaging the brain which is in actuality the only organ keeping the corpses animated. Body shots should not take these baddies down! Aim should play a bigger part; headshots, an Axe through the forehead, cutting the head off at the neck, beating the skull in with a blunt instrument or setting them on fire are all very proper and known ways of destroying an infected!

In short I guess I could have said: "All that's needed to make Day Z the greatest zombie apocalypse simulator ever created would be importing the zed mechanics from Dead Island". Heck, I know its a comedy, but even Shaun of the Dead did zombies the way they were meant to be.

Surely there are those of you who agree with me and certainly those that don't ... but these issues - these changes need to be put into affect, before any true zombie enthusiasts are on board.

Edited September 16, 2012 by jdu82

[habinero 8]

This IS a sickness we're dealing with afterall and it's going to infect different people in various ways. Zombies who once were human are infected with a "virus". It is certainly not going to improve their athletic capabilities nor make them superhuman for that matter. Since everything in the game is already so representative of real life it's my opinion that the zombies should maintain that realism and not break it (like the current state of the mod).

Also as in Dead Island, the infected should be more difficult to kill. This should only be accomplished through damaging the brain which is in actuality the only organ keeping the corpses animated. Body shots should not take these baddies down! Aim should play a bigger part; headshots, an Axe through the forehead, cutting the head off at the neck, beating the skull in with a blunt instrument or setting them on fire are all very proper and known ways of destroying an infected!

Yes!!

I would prefer that we not have "cunning" zombies as it feels too Left4Dead. While I agree there could be different zombies they shouldn't vary all that much, and their full run speed should be about 4/5s of the players normal run speed and they should move at a constant inside or out.

To address spawning, if they are gonna be spawned, spawn A lot of them from farther away and in many more places inside and out, and don't respawn them until players have left the area and come back. Also!! Those wandering hoards trigger respawns but respect a 50meter radius of a player. The hoard acts just like a player in that it spawns them in from...400m away?? just throwing out numbers.

What this means? well players could in theory clear an entire town out however, I would like to imagine that there's too many for a small group of players to do that. Possibly a band of 12 or more with a lot of ammo could, and then you could hold the town unless a hoard wanders up then more spawn within the town and then you have to clear it all over again or get out.

I'm sure this would load the servers a lot but its still a great idea i think.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Habinero

[jdu82 2]

Yes!!

I would prefer that we not have "cunning" zombies as it feels too Left4Dead. While I agree there could be different zombies they shouldn't vary all that much, and their full run speed should be about 4/5s of the players normal run speed and they should move at a constant inside or out.

I had a vision in my mind of actually varying the speed of the zombies randomly... like random generated code dependant on the condition of the infected. I see some that were healthy when turned, like you and me, and those will definitely go full out sprint (within the realm of reason) toward the survivor. There would also be some, say because of an injury, that wouldn't be able to muster up much more than a fast hobble or a clumsy skip. It would keep the anticipation up - never knowing when you'll be "bum-rushed" and frantic or have a moment for reflection and target practice.