Why does Rocket want us to have congenital insenssitivity?

[SillySil 295]

So I've been watching this http://uk.ign.com/videos/2012/08/30/lets-play-dayz-day-6-with-dean-hall-dogs-and-the-next-big-update and there was another place where he said that he wants to get rid of UI with food/temperature indicators. Instead you will be able to tell that you're hungry because your belly will rumble, or that you're cold because you will see your character shivering.

What is this? Am I unable to feel temperature, hunger or thirst? I don't need to see my body shiver to know it's cold, I can frigging feel it. I don't need my belly to start sounding like chewbacca to know that I'm hungry, I can constantly feel how full/hungry I am. I don't need my body to give me visible or audible signs, I can always tell those things. Only people with some kind of genetic diseases can't tell when they are hungry or cold. I know that Rocket is trying to give more immersion to DayZ by getting rid of the UI. But giving me all those rare genetic diseases is not going to make me feel more immersed. More like controlling some kind of a lifeless pupped or something.

Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?

[D3nty 114]

he said that he wants to get rid of UI with food/temperature indicators. Instead you will be able to tell that you're hungry because your belly will rumble, or that you're cold because you will see your character shivering.

Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?

Well i have a deaf friend who plays DayZ, the UI is a god send for him otherwise he wouldn't play it... Ill be interested in seeing what they do to accommodate for people like this.

[Professional N00b 347]

I agree fully.

A video game can only replicate the real world so much. There are some senses that your computer monitor and headphones just can't replicate though, and that's why certain game mechanics (like the UI) exist.

If you want it really realistic you might as well tell people to stop pushing buttons to move your character since, after all, you don't push buttons to move in real life.

[cfnz 15]

I wouldn't label it as a bad idea just yet, I want to test it out first, but I do wonder whether it's taking things too far. A UI may be gamey but if it remains the most effective way of communicating information to the player then leave it in.

[Max Planck 7174]

I think they should keep the UI but make it possible to hide it, just put it on a toggle. That way we'd have both the immersion and the information, and deaf people could play too.

The sound cues could still be there, stomach growling could be equal to 'flashy red' food bar.

[venthos 605]

So I've been reading this http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/84713-why-does-rocket-want-us-to-have-congenital-insenssitivity/ and there was a place where he said that he wants to get keep a UI with food/temperature indicators. Instead you will be able to tell that you're hungry because a bright fork and knife icon embedded in your eye will flash red, or that you're cold because you will see a bright thermometer icon embedded in your eye flash.

What is this? Am I unable to exhibit a more natural sense of temperature, hunger or thirst? I don't need a bright flashing icon to know it's cold, I can sense it through body language and sounds. I don't need a fork and knife icon flashing red like a stop light to know that I'm hungry, I can constantly sense how full/hungry I am through body language and sounds. I don't need these flashing icons to give me visible signs, I can always tell those things. Only people with some kind of genetic diseases can't tell when they are hungry or cold. I know that SillySil is trying to maintain more immersion to DayZ by not adding overtly choreographed body movements and sounds. But giving me all of these bright flashing icons and text like I'm wearing a Project Glass headset from Google is not going to make me feel more immersed. More like controlling some kind of a lifeless star bucks patron with a headset or something.

Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?

----

See how your argument is flawed and how I could spin that around and make the SAME argument you did? The UI isn't authentic either. Neither solution is "authentic". As you said, we can't feel what the character is feeling.

However, I think removing all UI elements presents you with more immersion by taking cues from your character versus cues from a UI overlay. Yes you yourself would be aware of hunger/thirst/temperate before exhibiting shakes/stomach rumbles/etc. But, there's no way for a computer to convey feeling to your body (yet?). I'm in the camp of removal of as much of the UI as possible and making all cues about the character be FROM the character.

[adamtheheretic 106]

I think they should keep the UI but make it possible to hide it, just put it on a toggle. That way we'd have both the immersion and the information, and deaf people could play too.

The sound cues could still be there, stomach growling could be equal to 'flashy red' food bar.

That, and still add in the stomach rumbling and such. Even with keeping the UI it would be a good addition.

[ptk (DayZ) 178]

inb4 teardrop rain commences. like max said, have it an option to have it or not. your character, your sandbox, decide how you want to survive...

[SillySil 295]

So I've been reading this http://dayzmod.com/f...insenssitivity/ and there was a place where he said that he wants to get keep a UI with food/temperature indicators. Instead you will be able to tell that you're hungry because a bright fork and knife icon embedded in your eye will flash red, or that you're cold because you will see a bright thermometer icon embedded in your eye flash.

What is this? Am I unable to exhibit a more natural sense of temperature, hunger or thirst? I don't need a bright flashing icon to know it's cold, I can sense it through body language and sounds. I don't need a fork and knife icon flashing red like a stop light to know that I'm hungry, I can constantly sense how full/hungry I am through body language and sounds. I don't need these flashing icons to give me visible signs, I can always tell those things. Only people with some kind of genetic diseases can't tell when they are hungry or cold. I know that SillySil is trying to maintain more immersion to DayZ by not adding overtly choreographed body movements and sounds. But giving me all of these bright flashing icons and text like I'm wearing a Project Glass headset from Google is not going to make me feel more immersed. More like controlling some kind of a lifeless star bucks patron with a headset or something.

Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?

----

See how your argument is flawed and how I could spin that around and make the SAME argument you did? The UI isn't authentic either. Neither solution is "authentic". As you said, we can't feel what the character is feeling.

However, I think removing all UI elements presents you with more immersion by taking cues from your character versus cues from a UI overlay. Yes you yourself would be aware of hunger/thirst/temperate before exhibiting shakes/stomach rumbles/etc. But, there's no way for a computer to convey feeling to your body (yet?). I'm in the camp of removal of as much of the UI as possible and making all cues about the character be FROM the character.

Except you make no sense. I never said flashing icons in corner of your vision are realistic. There are part of USER INTERFACE because you can't simulate feelings in video games. UI is a replacement for things you can't portray using monitor and speakers. And you can't portray hunger with audible signs, because hunger isn't a yes or no thing. It's a scale. Good luck portraying that using sound. What are you going to do, add a constant tone that changes depending on how hungry you are?

[Sticker704 121]

Keep both with an option to disable it. I mean immersion doesn't mean anything if a deaf person doesn't know when his character is hungry on not.

[Diddemz 4]

So I've been reading this http://dayzmod.com/f...insenssitivity/ and there was a place where he said that he wants to get keep a UI with food/temperature indicators. Instead you will be able to tell that you're hungry because a bright fork and knife icon embedded in your eye will flash red, or that you're cold because you will see a bright thermometer icon embedded in your eye flash.

What is this? Am I unable to exhibit a more natural sense of temperature, hunger or thirst? I don't need a bright flashing icon to know it's cold, I can sense it through body language and sounds. I don't need a fork and knife icon flashing red like a stop light to know that I'm hungry, I can constantly sense how full/hungry I am through body language and sounds. I don't need these flashing icons to give me visible signs, I can always tell those things. Only people with some kind of genetic diseases can't tell when they are hungry or cold. I know that SillySil is trying to maintain more immersion to DayZ by not adding overtly choreographed body movements and sounds. But giving me all of these bright flashing icons and text like I'm wearing a Project Glass headset from Google is not going to make me feel more immersed. More like controlling some kind of a lifeless star bucks patron with a headset or something.

Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?

----

See how your argument is flawed and how I could spin that around and make the SAME argument you did? The UI isn't authentic either. Neither solution is "authentic". As you said, we can't feel what the character is feeling.

However, I think removing all UI elements presents you with more immersion by taking cues from your character versus cues from a UI overlay. Yes you yourself would be aware of hunger/thirst/temperate before exhibiting shakes/stomach rumbles/etc. But, there's no way for a computer to convey feeling to your body (yet?). I'm in the camp of removal of as much of the UI as possible and making all cues about the character be FROM the character.

In case you haven't heard Bohemia Interactive is making the standalone... You will be lucky if it even works the first month, yet you want the characters to give visual queue's?

[CptBywater 10]

There are a lot more non-inherited diseases that do that to you than inherited ones.

[Sir Diealot 46]

Hmm, although I like immersion and 'realism' in games, and would generally like more of it in DayZ, I'd like to keep the UI-theme somewhat as it is. OR the other extreme, just not get any 'ques' as to hunger or thirst and such, instead you'd have to guestimate it, but your character would only consume ie. water or beans up to the point of being 'full'. (So he wouldn't necessarily eat the whole can of beans in one sitting). l have never liked 'visual' or 'audial' ques in games, because they are usually just plain crap. So until the technology is there that my computer can actually make me feel what my character is feeling (hunger, thirst, cold), I'd rather see perhaps even just numbers on the screen. The immersion-factor doesn't suffer too much in a game such as this, when there's a whole lotta other stuff to keep you on your toes. (Imho, e.g. the current temperature-meter is just too vague. Although this might be just my perception of it, if I've never actually been cold enough to see any color changes or whatever the hell it tries to tell me)

:edit: Having said this, I'd agree that all this should be a serverside-option, whether you receive this information via a meter or the 'visuals' etc. Options and choices, that is what the world is about.

And that is what games should be about. (even the gameplay of DayZ is (mostly) based on your choices, so why not incorporate this method into the servers/UI and whatever-else)

Edited August 31, 2012 by Sir Diealot

[ptk (DayZ) 178]

sometimes, when, you know, I want immersion, I hook up a car battery to my testicles and "juice em."

I do this whenever my character feels like, you know, hooking up a car battery to his testicles and "juice em."

so yea, who's HARDCORE NOW?!

[Inception. 9443]

It's a horrible idea, because you will HAVE to play with only in-game sounds, not external music/whatever.

That really sucks. Argh, I absolutely despise that.

[Sir Diealot 46]

sometimes, when, you know, I want immersion, I hook up a car battery to my testicles and "juice em."

I do this whenever my character feels like, you know, hooking up a car battery to his testicles and "juice em."

so yea, who's HARDCORE NOW?!

Brucie..? Brucie Kibbutz, is that you? Hell yeah, V.I.P. How you doing? How's the bullshark-testosterone working for ya?

:D

[jdblair5 170]

So I've been watching this http://uk.ign.com/vi...next-big-update and there was another place where he said that he wants to get rid of UI with food/temperature indicators. Instead you will be able to tell that you're hungry because your belly will rumble, or that you're cold because you will see your character shivering.

What is this? Am I unable to feel temperature, hunger or thirst? I don't need to see my body shiver to know it's cold, I can frigging feel it. I don't need my belly to start sounding like chewbacca to know that I'm hungry, I can constantly feel how full/hungry I am. I don't need my body to give me visible or audible signs, I can always tell those things. Only people with some kind of genetic diseases can't tell when they are hungry or cold. I know that Rocket is trying to give more immersion to DayZ by getting rid of the UI. But giving me all those rare genetic diseases is not going to make me feel more immersed. More like controlling some kind of a lifeless pupped or something.

Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?

This is a joke right? Stomach rumbling?

[Thasik 79]

I just want to have a good time. All this sounds a little ridiculous.

[ruecanonrails 24]

I vote for some sort of USB add on with shock pads, simply attatch to your stomach when are about to play. A shock will tell you your hungry haha

That could be expanded upon for any type of physical feed back just pray they dont add a bladder system after.

I think a combination of both visual and hearing notifications of body status are needed. instead of it flashing red when you need to eat you keep the same darkening red theme but when you are really hungry your stomach wont stop making noise.

similar thing with thirst but you cough a little or something.

[Boof (DayZ) 75]

So I've been reading this http://dayzmod.com/f...insenssitivity/ and there was a place where he said that he wants to get keep a UI with food/temperature indicators. Instead you will be able to tell that you're hungry because a bright fork and knife icon embedded in your eye will flash red, or that you're cold because you will see a bright thermometer icon embedded in your eye flash.

What is this? Am I unable to exhibit a more natural sense of temperature, hunger or thirst? I don't need a bright flashing icon to know it's cold, I can sense it through body language and sounds. I don't need a fork and knife icon flashing red like a stop light to know that I'm hungry, I can constantly sense how full/hungry I am through body language and sounds. I don't need these flashing icons to give me visible signs, I can always tell those things. Only people with some kind of genetic diseases can't tell when they are hungry or cold. I know that SillySil is trying to maintain more immersion to DayZ by not adding overtly choreographed body movements and sounds. But giving me all of these bright flashing icons and text like I'm wearing a Project Glass headset from Google is not going to make me feel more immersed. More like controlling some kind of a lifeless star bucks patron with a headset or something.

Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?

----

See how your argument is flawed and how I could spin that around and make the SAME argument you did? The UI isn't authentic either. Neither solution is "authentic". As you said, we can't feel what the character is feeling.

However, I think removing all UI elements presents you with more immersion by taking cues from your character versus cues from a UI overlay. Yes you yourself would be aware of hunger/thirst/temperate before exhibiting shakes/stomach rumbles/etc. But, there's no way for a computer to convey feeling to your body (yet?). I'm in the camp of removal of as much of the UI as possible and making all cues about the character be FROM the character.

Man where's the 'Take beans and give a firm backhand' button...

[zak757 146]

I agree, this is a HORRIBLE idea.

Oh, did you go AFK for a minute? Are you hungry? I guess you'll never know.

[oby 5]

I would like to see the character needing to defecate and urinate also, visual and audio cues included of course. It completely breaks my immersion not having to shit and piss every 12 hours. Farting also, MUST be implemented, can`t be realistic without farting. Nope, it`s not that all people you meet are elite military personnel that can run forever and can take a shotgun to the gut and then just keep on running, that`s not immersion breaking, it`s that damnable UI ... also not being able to shit. Respawning for 50 trillion times after death is also highly realistic. But that fork, god damn that flashing fork just kills it for me. When i see that thing flashing it`s like i wake up from a trance and go HOLY SHIT THIS IS NOT REAL LIFE !

[venthos 605]

The missed point in all of this is that Rocket has basically already explained in the video the OP is talking about that he aims to remove every UI element possible. It's nearly a sure fire guarantee that this is happening. The only UI elements he's not sure if they can do with removing are the indicators of how visible/audible you are. So, this thread is pretty moot anyway.

Did you know he stated in another video he is removing the ammo counter for your gun? He wants it to be authentic in that you must count/remember as you fire in regards to how many rounds are left in the mag. Going to cry about that too? I also agree with the ammo change.

I completely agree with everything Rocket has stated thus far in his videos in terms of the design direction of the game. I <3 it so hard.

[Max Planck 7174]

Man, you guys are angry.

SillySil voiced a concern, we talked about it a little, then all of a sudden the thread explodes in aggressive one-liners and all caps.

Wanting less UI to intrude on the game does not make someone a bad person who needs to get shouted at.

I think a UI toggle would be best, it works in the Stalker games.

[SillySil 295]

The missed point in all of this is that Rocket has basically already explained in the video the OP is talking about that he aims to remove every UI element possible. It's nearly a sure fire guarantee that this is happening. The only UI elements he's not sure if they can do with removing are the indicators of how visible/audible you are. So, this thread is pretty moot anyway.

Did you know he stated in another video he is removing the ammo counter for your gun? He wants it to be authentic in that you must count/remember as you fire in regards to how many rounds are left in the mag. Going to cry about that too? I also agree with the ammo change.

I completely agree with everything Rocket has stated thus far in his videos in terms of the design direction of the game. I <3 it so hard.

How is this thread moot? A dev wants to make a change in the game, not everyone knows about it, I think it's a bad idea, and I wanted to talk about it. See if there are others thinking like me. Maybe no one has challenged Rocket about it yet. And seeing how he has a horde of "I completely agree with everything he said and will defend it no matter how stupid my arguments are" fanboys following him I wouldn't be surprised. You know you're not going to improve if you don't consider that what you're doing might be wrong or you can do better.

About the ammo. Yeah, I think it's a good idea. If I can refill my mags and somehow tell which one weights more than another.

And seriously. How the fuck am I crying? You fanboys make no sense. I gave good reasons why UI is necessary when it comes to things like hunger/cold. I raised a concern and gave reasons why his idea isn't good in my opinion. How is that crying? Seriously fanboy logic. "someone doesn't like something? no one can question Rocket. what a whiny, entitled codfag."

I'm not against the idea, I'm against making it obligatory. If it's going to be optional then I have no reason to be against implementing it.

Edited August 31, 2012 by SillySil