The Return of Starting With a Weapon

[Newsflash 6]

Exposition

(although I'm sure the forum trolls and idiots won't read at all, and will instead just skip to blasting any idea ever created for advancing this game):

I am not a new player. I am not a carebear that wants the game to be easy. I am not interested in camping spawn points. I am fairly resolved in my opinion, but I'm also open to discussion (and hoping for it [in an actual logical, thought out format]) about my hypothesis.

I've been playing DayZ for a few months now, starting somewhere in patch 1.5 or 1.6, and I have seen and experienced all the many changes that have happened during this time. Overall, the changes have been positive at least in a long term though process (Ex: Respawn disabled pretty much pisses everyone off, but in the long run will definitely help counter some imbalance and some cheating issues. Or perhaps shitty, annoying, static blockades and other nuisances that interrupt normal paths.) and I try to see everything in terms of how it will effect the future of the game, not just how it will effect my instant gratification... but... one change that I have pondered and pondered and I cannot find a logical explanation for is the removal of a starting gun.

Reasons for spawning without a gun:

-Realism: Understandable, but unobtainable and futile in general. This is a video game and always will be. As awesome as it would be to have a "zombie simulator," to practice for the coming end of days, it isn't going to happen. And the ability to observe the difference between reality and a game, while still becoming completely engulfed in the game, is very important for the experience and the enjoyment of it.

-Spawn Killing Prevention: Disabling a starting weapon did nothing to prevent this. In fact, if anything, it made it worse; the coasts used to be guarded by bandits with Makarov's, now they're guarded by bandits with AS50s and assault rifles. Pretty self explanatory.

-?: I really can't think of any other major reasons to spawn without a gun, but please let me know if you think of any and I will update accordingly.

Reasons for spawning WITH a gun:

Instead of bulleting this section I think I'll just flat out state my reasoning for spawning with the gun, because I feel that it is important enough to justify all the reasoning needed.

Spawning with a gun gives a sense of security, comfort, and to some, the sense of being a bandit whose story is the killing of others to survive. The covert and subconscious effect of spawning with a gun is the sense of freedom to do as you please. Spawning with a gun has always made me feel that I don't have to do anything... I can either: loot, kill, run, relax, kill or kill. Spawning WITHOUT a gun made me feel that instead of having no "quest" to complete, I needed to go and get everything I needed as soon as possible and have a regimented playstyle, whatever that may be. When I started with a gun and some beans I was the master of my destiny, this was MY story, but now I feel as if I'm playing the game's story. This small change has caused me to go from doing what I wanted, when I wanted, how I wanted, because I wanted to, to doing everything I need to do, because I NEED to do it. Which is a horrible feeling in a game that is supposed to be so open and so free.

The reason I am posting this is because I strongly believe that I am not the only one who feels this way, and I'd just like to see if that is the truth or if I'm a complete moron and don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

In Conclusion

The potential that this game had for me is slowly diminishing and I think that, in the long run, spawning empty handed will prove to be a killer and squashing it now will prevent much heartache from the developer team and many grievances from the players. Perhaps there is many additions and fixes that need to be added to the game to make a more full play experience, but this is a small fix that will work wonders and will appeal to the masses as this game becomes more mainstream and more stable to play.

Thanks for reading and please tell me what you think below.

[CerebralZombie (DayZ) 151]

For all the threads with this suggestion, at least this one was well thought out and put together very nicely.

I'd already posted in a thread about starting with a gun that was started today, so look out for flaming. ;)

[Newsflash 6]

The flaming is expected and not much I can do about. I just hope to get some actual input in between the bouts of retardation.

[CerebralZombie (DayZ) 151]

Well I don't mind at all not starting with a weapon. After dying so many times from bandits and hackers you become a pro at gathering gear n' weapons. Also the ability to doge zombies and be stealthy around other players. I always get mad when I lose all my great gear, especially when I shouldn't have died. In the end I find I enjoy starting new and find it very easy to start over from scratch. You can join a server with a lot of players if you want and head to a large town, (I prefer Elektro) than loot all the untouched dead bodies full of great gear, so when you die and lose it all it's no big deal. Also helps not being afraid to get into a fire fight with the risk of losing gear that took days to collect.

Just tonight I joined a server, than 2 minutes in everyone was teleported into insta-death...

But I already have medium/pretty damn good gear after 30min-1hr.

[Newsflash 6]

And I do apologize in advance for making another thread about this issue, but I felt that all my information was better displayed in a different thread.

[Newsflash 6]

I do have my sources of gear and I do sometimes enjoy getting geared as soon as I spawn, but I think that is also one of the issues that not spawning with a weapon is causing... You feel the NEED to go and get geared because you have absolutely nothing. Getting the best gear so quickly really takes so much fun out of the game.

[CerebralZombie (DayZ) 151]

I do have my sources of gear and I do sometimes enjoy getting geared as soon as I spawn, but I think that is also one of the issues that not spawning with a weapon is causing... You feel the NEED to go and get geared because you have absolutely nothing. Getting the best gear so quickly really takes so much fun out of the game.

Yeah it really depends. Every time is different for me, as there are many factors involved. (Server player count, spawn area, solo-play or co-op and how many team members, ect, ect.)

Also don't worry about this being another thread since you did it in the best way possible. Most players would just type one sentence saying, "I want a starting weapon... I can't play DayZ.". Not that you can't play, but I am making fun of the others. :P

[Newsflash 6]

Yeah, I'm definitely not complaining about the difficulty of the game as it stands. If they could make it harder while also adding in a starting gun I would suggest that. The biggest issue is the mentality of having no gun when you start the game.

[CerebralZombie (DayZ) 151]

Yeah, I'm definitely not complaining about the difficulty of the game as it stands. If they could make it harder while also adding in a starting gun I would suggest that. The biggest issue is the mentality of having no gun when you start the game.

Yeah I could see that. I had a suggestion thread where I said zombies should be able to lunge at you once they get close, instead of stopping completely, than attack air. Taking it one step further the ability to grab you after lunging. Now these two attacks could vary as to not do one all the time. Also the zombie could fall after a lunge onto his face, or just stumble. Once again either or. I went into more detail, but this would up the hardness of the zombies in DayZ. If they made the game hard enough than maybe start with a weapon/gun, but we will have to wait n' see for the stand alone version.

I've also heard players wanting intros and spawns all over the map. Intros that show why you're hear/how you got hear, and how/what gear you start with. Again that was highly detailed and I don't have time. :lol:

[indian_crowe (DayZ) 8]

i really cant agree with you mate, well put though. good essay format :D but i think they should abolish thermal, that would help alot.

[CerebralZombie (DayZ) 151]

i really cant agree with you mate, well put though. good essay format :D but i think they should abolish thermal, that would help alot.

Yeah I've had the a few times now, and it's way to easy.

I could go on n' on about it, but no point. It is fun when you're the one using it, but on the other end... :lol:

[mopster 4]

Good post, I also disagree however, but with your argument not specifically starting with a weapon or not.

If I understand correctly, your opposition to not having a spawn weapon is that it results in a sense of needing to do something rather than allowing you full freedom to launch into what you WANT to do, yes? Whilst I hopefully understand your point I think that logically it leads to an argument for starting with a full or partially full kit. I shall explain. Even if you start with a weapon, you are still obliged to set about doing things that you NEED to do rather than want. You still need food and water, you still need to find certain items of equipment. Even if spawning with a weapon gave you a feeling of independance you would still need to do certain things sooner or later, most likely sooner. If you wished to remove the coersive effect of needing to do/collect certain things almost immediately upon spawning then logically (to my mind anyway) you would need to spawn with at minimum food and water in addition to a weapon and ammunition. It would not be much of a stretch to use the same argument to start with an axe, matches, knife, morphine etc etc. I know that's not exactly what you are suggesting but I think that is where your logic leads.

What do you think?

My personal opinion: I am happy without a weapon but have no qualms about that changing. It might be interesting to have a random allocation of equipment upon spawning so that sometimes you start with some bits and bobs and sometimes maybe even nothing at all (this might reflect the variety of survivors and how they came to be washed up on Chernarus' beaches).

I agree with the above poster though that it'd be nice to have no thermal optics in the game.

:D

[pjano 34]

one thing this game doesn't need to bring back is freshly spawned noobs running around shooting half-decent people in the face

the game has enough trust issues as it is

Edited August 27, 2012 by pjano

[DemonGroover 8836]

I think starting without a weapon is intended to give that real sense of "Oh shit, now what do i do?" You start with nothing and have to proceed accordingly. Are you happy to find a hatchet and head for the woods or do you hit up Cherno/Elektro for better gear? Despite the protests of many i have yet to have any real trouble gearing up at Respawn - the Zeds at present are no threat and until they are improved Spawning without a weapon doesnt really make much of a difference.

I think you touched on the real issue, though - the fact that so many players have top tier weaponry, be it duped and/or stashed away in tents throughout the land. Too many players can get fully geared up 30mins after death. At present an AS50 is almost as common as a Makarov.

[Newsflash 6]

i really cant agree with you mate, well put though. good essay format :D but i think they should abolish thermal, that would help alot.

I couldn't agree more, however that has nothing to do with this post. I'm not suggesting people spawn with thermal. lol

Good post, I also disagree however, but with your argument not specifically starting with a weapon or not.

If I understand correctly, your opposition to not having a spawn weapon is that it results in a sense of needing to do something rather than allowing you full freedom to launch into what you WANT to do, yes? Whilst I hopefully understand your point I think that logically it leads to an argument for starting with a full or partially full kit. I shall explain. Even if you start with a weapon, you are still obliged to set about doing things that you NEED to do rather than want. You still need food and water, you still need to find certain items of equipment. Even if spawning with a weapon gave you a feeling of independance you would still need to do certain things sooner or later, most likely sooner. If you wished to remove the coersive effect of needing to do/collect certain things almost immediately upon spawning then logically (to my mind anyway) you would need to spawn with at minimum food and water in addition to a weapon and ammunition. It would not be much of a stretch to use the same argument to start with an axe, matches, knife, morphine etc etc. I know that's not exactly what you are suggesting but I think that is where your logic leads.

What do you think?

My personal opinion: I am happy without a weapon but have no qualms about that changing. It might be interesting to have a random allocation of equipment upon spawning so that sometimes you start with some bits and bobs and sometimes maybe even nothing at all (this might reflect the variety of survivors and how they came to be washed up on Chernarus' beaches).

I agree with the above poster though that it'd be nice to have no thermal optics in the game.

:D

You've hit my point pretty well and I definitely understand your point. Where does it stop when you start to give people things to start with? I definitely DO NOT want people to start spawning with a full kit... When people spawned with a Makarov, a bandage, some beans and painkillers, it was the perfect amount to get you SOMEWHERE. Whether that be a city to get fully geared, or a small town to get more food and water and then move out, you could do it easily.

In the future I would not be opposed to random items upon spawn, but I think we're far off from that, and it isn't as crucial to add that in right now.

I think starting without a weapon is intended to give that real sense of "Oh shit, now what do i do?" You start with nothing and have to proceed accordingly. Are you happy to find a hatchet and head for the woods or do you hit up Cherno/Elektro for better gear? Despite the protests of many i have yet to have any real trouble gearing up at Respawn - the Zeds at present are no threat and until they are improved Spawning without a weapon doesnt really make much of a difference.

I think you touched on the real issue, though - the fact that so many players have top tier weaponry, be it duped and/or stashed away in tents throughout the land. Too many players can get fully geared up 30mins after death. At present an AS50 is almost as common as a Makarov.

Again, I have absolutely no problem getting geared or getting weapons and food... it's extremely easy. There was no benefit to removing a starting weapon because it didn't give that feeling that it was supposed to.

The duping of rare items is without a doubt a huge, HUGE issue, but it's definitely one of the most easy to recognize, OUT THERE issues. I think that everyone wants that to be fixed at this point and it's only a matter of time before it is... I'm trying to focus more on a covert issue that maybe needs to be thought more about.

[Bratalise 26]

I'm okay with not spawning with a weapon as of right now because there no threat that causes me to need one at spawn. I mean there's the other topic that someone mentioned how zombies aren't even a big threat which is ridiculous because they should be bigger or equal to bandits, right now its just run 10 feet from a zombie and no aggro is pulled, and if it is pulled you can lose them by running into a house or in the woods its no big deal. Anyway long story short if they ramped zombies up to the point where its difficult and when you shot you better get the fuck out of there then I would like to spawn with a weapon because it has a use now. Plus with the zombies more realistic then all the cod boy fans would stop running around Guns a blazing and would most likely stop playing since the game would be to difficult for most of them.

[Newsflash 6]

Sure, zombies should definitely be more of a threat, instead of just the occasional nuisance. But, again, this isn't about having a gun to defend yourself when you spawn, it's about having a gun to decrease the mentality of a regimented playstyle.

[hatfieldcw 184]

I played the game when you started with a gun, and I liked it. I play the game now that you don't, and I like it more.

[Newsflash 6]

Care to elaborate a bit more? Why is it better starting without a gun?

[miscology (DayZ) 18]

Starting with a gun Pros: You have a gun. Fun times.

Starting without a weapon: More challenging. Fun times.

Writing long articles. ???

[Newsflash 6]

Your logic is certainly undeniable... I may have to rethink my position on this one.

[cab435 0]

Exposition

(although I'm sure the forum trolls and idiots won't read at all, and will instead just skip to blasting any idea ever created for advancing this game):

I am not a new player. I am not a carebear that wants the game to be easy. I am not interested in camping spawn points. I am fairly resolved in my opinion, but I'm also open to discussion (and hoping for it [in an actual logical, thought out format]) about my hypothesis.

I've been playing DayZ for a few months now, starting somewhere in patch 1.5 or 1.6, and I have seen and experienced all the many changes that have happened during this time. Overall, the changes have been positive at least in a long term though process (Ex: Respawn disabled pretty much pisses everyone off, but in the long run will definitely help counter some imbalance and some cheating issues. Or perhaps shitty, annoying, static blockades and other nuisances that interrupt normal paths.) and I try to see everything in terms of how it will effect the future of the game, not just how it will effect my instant gratification... but... one change that I have pondered and pondered and I cannot find a logical explanation for is the removal of a starting gun.

Reasons for spawning without a gun:

-Realism: Understandable, but unobtainable and futile in general. This is a video game and always will be. As awesome as it would be to have a "zombie simulator," to practice for the coming end of days, it isn't going to happen. And the ability to observe the difference between reality and a game, while still becoming completely engulfed in the game, is very important for the experience and the enjoyment of it.

-Spawn Killing Prevention: Disabling a starting weapon did nothing to prevent this. In fact, if anything, it made it worse; the coasts used to be guarded by bandits with Makarov's, now they're guarded by bandits with AS50s and assault rifles. Pretty self explanatory.

-?: I really can't think of any other major reasons to spawn without a gun, but please let me know if you think of any and I will update accordingly.

Reasons for spawning WITH a gun:

Instead of bulleting this section I think I'll just flat out state my reasoning for spawning with the gun, because I feel that it is important enough to justify all the reasoning needed.

Spawning with a gun gives a sense of security, comfort, and to some, the sense of being a bandit whose story is the killing of others to survive. The covert and subconscious effect of spawning with a gun is the sense of freedom to do as you please. Spawning with a gun has always made me feel that I don't have to do anything... I can either: loot, kill, run, relax, kill or kill. Spawning WITHOUT a gun made me feel that instead of having no "quest" to complete, I needed to go and get everything I needed as soon as possible and have a regimented playstyle, whatever that may be. When I started with a gun and some beans I was the master of my destiny, this was MY story, but now I feel as if I'm playing the game's story. This small change has caused me to go from doing what I wanted, when I wanted, how I wanted, because I wanted to, to doing everything I need to do, because I NEED to do it. Which is a horrible feeling in a game that is supposed to be so open and so free.

The reason I am posting this is because I strongly believe that I am not the only one who feels this way, and I'd just like to see if that is the truth or if I'm a complete moron and don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

In Conclusion

The potential that this game had for me is slowly diminishing and I think that, in the long run, spawning empty handed will prove to be a killer and squashing it now will prevent much heartache from the developer team and many grievances from the players. Perhaps there is many additions and fixes that need to be added to the game to make a more full play experience, but this is a small fix that will work wonders and will appeal to the masses as this game becomes more mainstream and more stable to play.

Thanks for reading and please tell me what you think below.

I miss those days of starting with a pistol and 2 clips.

The food and water was really nice too.

If not a pistol a random axe or crowbar would be nice to start with.

[WarpNinja 6]

knowing where to find things, even without starting with a gun you are almost certain to come across one within the first 15 minutes of playing so, why would you need to start with one if you're going to find one right away? also you missed the key point and reason to not spawn with a gun, the relative difficulty involved in surviving without one, that being said what i said earlier should also be taken into account, imo it is far too easy to find guns, you can find one in just about any loot spawn so why would you want to start with one? to stay comfortable for 15 minutes at the beginning of the game? which is (for me) the most exciting part of the game

[Newsflash 6]

So, to repeat myself, the mentality not starting with a gun creates is not beneficial for the game. And this mentality persists, it doesn't stop when you get a gun. Please refer to the original post for more details.

[hatfieldcw 184]

I disagree about the mentality. I believe that the brief period of harmlessness at the beginning of a character's life, combined with the utter worthlessness of the character at that time, makes for an amicable player. If I meet another unarmed dude on the coast, I'll definitely talk to him, and I expect him to respond in a peaceful way, since he has no means by which to be hostile. Later, when we've got guns, then there's a chance I'll get a little nervous and peace out when he's not looking, but if he seems like a solid dude, I might play with him for a couple hours, even after we're both semi geared up. The players I meet after we both have guns are far less likely to be friendly.