Humanity

[SquirrelGott 4]

Get a friend > Dupe supplies > Profit

I say no. DayZ shouldn't become another MMORPG, with FPS elements.

If this game goes in the direction of pvp fps then there is no point to waste time playing it. It takes too long to invest in gaining items, the game was supposed to be about zombies, not about killing other survivors. It is quickly turning into just another free for all fps game, which is utterly pointless to play and will ruin the game. If I wanted to play pvp fps I would play battlefield, call of duty, day of defeat, cs, etc. they are far better anyway. The game is quickly being ruined by others who just go around looting and killing others. The trust no one aspect of the game, is ruining it. If you want to argue about realism, in real life you would not simply run around killing everyone. You would die, that would be the end of it. So that line of argument is simply false, you may meet strangers and form alliances but this is far greater than just friends you know in real life. It may be similar to the movie The Postman but without that neo-fascist army. If you really wanted realism then random items would never spawn or respawn, your character would have to sleep, shit, piss and you would have to purchase a CD key every time your character dies… so do you really want “realism”? Also you would get tired after running certain distances. Guns would jam randomly when you need them to fire. If it were real, people would not play. As it is, Dayz will lose players exponentially and it WILL turn into just another worthless pvp fps game, with hackers and no point in going out to survive and collect items. Only children have the time and energy to spend all day searching for stuff, ironically they are the ones hacking the most.

[Lights Out 141]

I don't think humanity should allow you to do certain things. Just because you're a good person in real life doesn't mean you gain skills and or opportunities.

Many don't like this but I feel it's the only implementation that is realistic and encourages a team play without directly punishing those who want to take up the outlaw role. ( I personally love the fact that players takes the outlaw role, it adds to the game and tension)

Now as far as how to encourage team play. Well, you have to have some kind of worth. As in life, people only keep you around if you have worth to them. Whether is the company or a specific set of skills which are useful. Do I want a skill tree, perks and skill points? Hell No!

-But if I gut 100 animals in the game I think I should get good at it. Maybe I get 5 pieces of meat instead of 2 after a while.

-If I shoot a bunch of animals and people, I'm going to get good at it. Maybe I can hold a steadier shot with my gun.'

-If I fix thing all the time, well damn call me Macgyver and let me put some crazy shit together.

-If I bandage, and give blood bags to all my dumb friends that shoot an enfield next big towns and break their legs crawling through doors, well damn I should be able to do it more effectively and efficiently.

Would all these things work, maybe not. You shouldn't have any type of skill that is giving you a huge, lets say pvp type advantage. Like I run faster then everyone else, or I can shoot with zero recoil, or I can reload at super human speed. No, that I don't want and it would take time and multiple opinions and views to see what works.

What it comes down to is, if you want some type of team play outside the people that want to play with friends, socialize with a random person etc. etc. etc. Well, you have to give players some type of worth. They can't be the same exact person as everyone else with maybe different clothes or face. Differentiate the players, make them worth keeping around.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Lights Out

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

-snip- (Too lazy to remove your formatting.)

Why are you quoting ME with that wall of text? I said that it shouldn't become another MMO with FPS free-for-all.

[cewinstherace 2]

Many don't like this but I feel it's the only implementation that is realistic and encourages a team play without directly punishing those who want to take up the outlaw role. ( I personally love the fact that players takes the outlaw role, it adds to the game and tension).

The existence of a Humanity score, as I've suggested, doesn't punish any particular play style. Rather it enables opportunity for anyone who demonstrates a humane act.

The original concept has two parts.

A. Define reward system of opportunities.

B. Define multiple paths to unlock such.

Path A, exchange of loot. Path B, earn minimum humanity score. I suppose you could also follow a third path of A/B. Meaning if the Humanity score to unlock a given opportunity were 500 and you had a score of 250 and another $250 worth of goods to exchange than such an opportunity would be yours to take advantage of.

I don't think humanity should allow you to do certain things. Just because you're a good person in real life doesn't mean you gain skills and or opportunities.

Being good and being humane aren't necessarily joined at the hip. A bandit is capable of being humane if the act itself served a selfish goal. A lone wolf might extend support to a random friendly in order to trade for a much needed item. The level at which we care about the continuation of our species varies from person to person.

Edited August 29, 2012 by cewinstherace

[RaphielDrake 2]

And related to thread how....

Who pays the bounty, I can only hope its an invinciple sherif with aim bot and a mini gun...

Look at title...

Probably the same people who invented magical morphine that instantly fixes broken bones.

[rpatto92@hotmail.com 26]

Yer I really don't like the idea of turning DayZ into a RPG/MMO type game but I do however think you can use cleaver mechanics to implement things that just can't exist in a game; like the idea that you actual have something lose. Some of these ideas might work well but I think the focus should be on humanity being a kind of representation of a persons credibility; something in which you can gauge in real life using instinct and from reputation but not in game thus we have humanity as a judgement. Having your credibility or humanity however at face value for a person to see, leads to some humanity death traps were players kill players stuck as a bandit and can not escape from the cycle.

So I propose something different only allowing people apart of the same group as in bandit, survivor or hero to see your humanity with the possibility of it being revealed to other players though other means adding an element of danger to it and if you're killed by players in the same group; well all I can say is it comes with the territory your in.

I have a post on how I think it could be implemented: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/84176-humanity-what-is-it-good-for/#entry793267

[that 1 stranger 19]

I'm going to just admit to this before saying anything else, I have not fully read the entire thread. I've only skimmed through it. I believe to have the general idea, and will now throw my two cents into this because I believe it to be a worthwhile topic.

First and foremost, this is a game. I don't play games to simulate real life. Nobody does. If someone plays a game because they want to do what they do in real life, then that's just absolutely stupid. Instead, I play games to do things that I can't do in real life without consequence. We all know zombies don't really exist. We all know that we can't go out and shoot someone in the face with a M107. We all know that we can't con and scam people out of their hard earned and good luck rewards. We play video games because we want to do the things we can't do in real life. It's entertaining, dramatic, and therapeutic. We all want to live larger than our own lives.

Your reward system is already in the game. It's called the other players. If you are nice to people in the game, chances are they will be nice to you. You want a system that reflects society when society plays the game. You get taken advantage of, and take advantage of, in real life. The game reflects that by the actions of you and the other players. If you help someone, chances are they are going to reward you by not shooting you in the back. Face it, you don't help people in your daily life so that they owe you a favor. You help them because it makes you feel good about yourself. You want to be physically rewarded for that, and I can understand because life doesn't reward you for being nice to other people except for making you feel better about yourself. However, if you want it to be realistic as society would have it, then nothing needs to be changed.

[cewinstherace 2]

Continuing to refine the concept...

Those who run alone, in the world of DayZ, stand less of a chance at building a character worth defending.

I guess my goal, in this thread, was to encourage the development of a set of rules which reinforced like minded folks banding together for the sake of rebuilding what the infection has taken.

Light rules. Simple mechanics. Opportunities which, when achieved, simplify complex tasks. Increasing the amount of meat harvested from a given animal, enabling the ability to convert ammo from weapon A to weapon B. Improving firearm skills. Improve mechanical skills. Etc., etc..

Such a mechanic would reinforce community. By joining an existing community, of bandits, survivors or what not, your character would be capable of taking advantage of such knowledge trees unlocked by a given groups members.

Now if only one player, within your group, has personally taken the time to learn and unlock the skill of ammo conversion and he or she dies and or leaves the group then the members of the group are no longer capable to using such skills from their personal skill tree until they either recruit a new group member who has such a skill and/or takes the time to learn such on their own.

[hoik 415]

What it comes down to is, if you want some type of team play outside the people that want to play with friends, socialize with a random person etc. etc. etc. Well, you have to give players some type of worth. They can't be the same exact person as everyone else with maybe different clothes or face. Differentiate the players, make them worth keeping around.

IMO this is the foundation which needs to be built on. The OP's suggestion does do this to some extent, but is too focused on the term 'humanity' (IMO).

While I think skills are a good way to give indivduals value to each other (and themselves) - I also think that causality should also be considered as a means to influence peoples actions. If you make everyones actions (from PvP, to scavenging food/items, to running around the woods doing nothing, etc.) effect the world around them in a unbiast manner (it will still be good for some and bad for others) then you can let the players peers determin what is moral and what is immoral dependant on their point of view.

So high PvP could be linked to something like a long respawn countdown, but a weapon on spawn (simulating a rapid decrease in population/civility) or lower loot quality, but alot of it (simulating the lack of co-operation = less advanced technologys, but more of it to go around) etc ,etc.

This knowledge of concequence to ones actions is what could give players pause when it comes to taking certain actions. They can also weigh up their options and then act accordingly. IMO this type of system leaves the door wide open for interpretation while giving players a sense of responsibility for the negative out comes of their actions as well as the positive.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Hoik

[cewinstherace 2]

Hoik's post got me thinking...

Edited September 17, 2012 by cewinstherace

[cewinstherace 2]

*** MAJOR THREAD REVISION - SEE INITIAL POST FOR DETAILS ***

Edited September 17, 2012 by cewinstherace

[cewinstherace 2]

Not sure if folks have played DayZ Origins v.1.6. They've recently added a mechanic which allows folks to build buildings. A house, a garage, etc.. What you're capable of building is determined by your humanity. From level 1 through 3 for both hero and bandit. On the outside this looks to be a manifestation of the kind of thread started here. However, in practice what seems to be occurring is a large number of folks are scripting (ie. teleporting) around the map and killing players in order to accelerate the production of negative humanity in order to build a level 3 bandit building.

It's my sense that the benefit of being a bandit is the lack of concern for causality (thanks Hoik for adding such a concept to this thread). As a bandit I can fire at will without concern for my humanity. My reward as a bandit is the loot I acquire. Coupling negative humanity with a value system like (improved building types) produces a very tangible benefit to those who would script.

Edited April 26, 2013 by cewinstherace