cewinstherace

It's a bummer to be honest, It's been a while since I've had as much fun playing DayZ. Spawn frequencies, of all types, have been finely tuned. AI runs patrols (map wide). The ability to build bases, piece by piece, via the act of searching for the raw ingredients then constructing a given object is awesome. Initially I had worried ES123 was unique amongst the wide collection of DayZ servers. I have since found another. For those wishing to get a taste of this newness, you must first register for the white-list at http://forums.sernix.net. Once registered you must, next, login to their forum to find the password which is published monthly. Registered and with password in hand open Arma 2, enable your Taviana expansion, restart Arma 2, and filter for 'o23' in multiplayer. Have fun. Ps. Or, I suppose, you could simply log into ES123 and give it a try there. Again, a word of caution, it's my sense that those managing the server have less experience than what you would hope for in an Admin team. Or, at least, this was our experience. Perhaps yours will be different?

Not sure if folks have played DayZ Origins v.1.6. They've recently added a mechanic which allows folks to build buildings. A house, a garage, etc.. What you're capable of building is determined by your humanity. From level 1 through 3 for both hero and bandit. On the outside this looks to be a manifestation of the kind of thread started here. However, in practice what seems to be occurring is a large number of folks are scripting (ie. teleporting) around the map and killing players in order to accelerate the production of negative humanity in order to build a level 3 bandit building. It's my sense that the benefit of being a bandit is the lack of concern for causality (thanks Hoik for adding such a concept to this thread). As a bandit I can fire at will without concern for my humanity. My reward as a bandit is the loot I acquire. Coupling negative humanity with a value system like (improved building types) produces a very tangible benefit to those who would script.

I am posting this thread for one simple reason, to warn folks about the abusive admins on ES123 (DayZCraft). ES123 allows users to build custom bases from scratch. In addition to this great feature it also, heavily, populates the server with additional buildings, loot spawns, vehicles and the like. A group of friends and I recently discovered the server and in no time were looting, amassing and building base elements. By our third day playing upon ES123 half our team had been kicked from ES123. This is our tale. Day one included, loot, surviving AI/players/zombies, grouping up, scouting future build locations and ultimately starting the build. Not much to say here other than we had lots of fun. Day two started much the same way, our base was progressing nicely, the team was gearing up to a respectable level and starting to mobilize to nearby locations for raids. While scouting the map we had noticed a unique base which had been built at grid location 162073. I say unique because this base was built within a castle and included a 'warehouse' inside the castle grounds. A 'warehouse' inside the castle... As if spawning buildings inside a desirable castle was not enough, they had, just about, two of everything staged within the complex system of walls. As the day drew to a close we decided to fly into the well-fortified fortress and loot as much as possible. Our raid got a bit messy, we lost more than we gained. We called it a day. Day three, we log in bright and early to find that our base had been raided as well. We built within a tree stand at 013068. Someone had either parachuted into our base, which was quite small and under a canopy of trees, built a tower bunker near a wall and climbed over and/or made their way in by some other clever means. In either event, the looters moved a truck near a place where two cargo-containers met. They then filled the truck with our loot (guns, ammo, gear and such) and then reached into the truck from the outside of our base via the very small gap between the two cargo containers... Our response, we added additional walls to our base to ensure we didn't suffer from the same fate a second time. No complaints. We just fixed our base and got back to the job of building up our loot pile. Toward the end of the day, with our base fixed and some of our loot restored, we decided to take a second shot at raiding the enemy base located at 162073. Five of us hopped into our Mi-8. Upon arrival at the enemy base we were greeted with small arms fire from the top of one of the castle towers. We returned fire via the guns mounted on the Mi-8 and took out the opponent. We landed inside the outer ring of the enemy base. The base was broken into three tiers. Inside the first ring was at least one Mi-8 and an osprey. We quickly took the Osprey back to base. We then attempted to take what ended up being a damaged Mi-8. Trouble was it was too damaged to sustain flight. Our pilot spun out of control and crashed the bird. We then flew into the 2nd tier. Inside the 2nd tier, as I previously mentioned, was a warehouse. Here it was, backed up against the castle walls. The base builders had then placed three cement barriers, on the inside of the warehouse, blocking the warehouse entrance. In front of the warehouse were dragon's teeth. One of our group attempted to vault over the teeth. In doing so he also found that he could vault through a gap between the warehouse and the cement barriers. Now on the inside of the warehouse he backed a truck up to the gap. He filled the truck with loot. We then pulled a truck up, from the outside, and ex-filled the loot through the same gap. We used the same technique which had been used on us the day before. Not a glitch. This was a case of a poorly designed base. Had the creators taken better care to place their barriers, the gap, which was more than a foot wide, would not have allowed our teammate to vault through. At this point the person who was guarding the base, which we shot upon arrival, had made his way back. We were just then in the process of lifting the truck, filled with loot, and heading back to base. He immediately says we were cheating. That we glitched into his base and that we crashed a bird into base on purpose. None of which was true. We attempted to argue the point. Moments later, three of the five in our squad were kicked. We then re-logged. Once more we were kicked. Waited a few, attempted to re-log again. This time we were allowed to stay. We attempted to make our case. The Admin would not listen. We stated what was stated here in this thread. Again, he could give a shit. Press V in Arma and you will vault. If by pressing V you're able to vault over or past a barrier then by way of the games design you've succeeded. This is not a glitch or an exploit. Had these folks been more detail oriented they would not have left such a gap in their security in the first place. The Admins at ES123 (DayZCraft) have abused their powers by adding a warehouse to a castle location which is used for their express purpose. They have abused their admin powers by kicking our team which was in the process of raiding their base. Do not waste your time on ES123 (DayZCraft).

*** MAJOR THREAD REVISION - SEE INITIAL POST FOR DETAILS ***

Hoik's post got me thinking...

Continuing to refine the concept... Those who run alone, in the world of DayZ, stand less of a chance at building a character worth defending. I guess my goal, in this thread, was to encourage the development of a set of rules which reinforced like minded folks banding together for the sake of rebuilding what the infection has taken. Light rules. Simple mechanics. Opportunities which, when achieved, simplify complex tasks. Increasing the amount of meat harvested from a given animal, enabling the ability to convert ammo from weapon A to weapon B. Improving firearm skills. Improve mechanical skills. Etc., etc.. Such a mechanic would reinforce community. By joining an existing community, of bandits, survivors or what not, your character would be capable of taking advantage of such knowledge trees unlocked by a given groups members. Now if only one player, within your group, has personally taken the time to learn and unlock the skill of ammo conversion and he or she dies and or leaves the group then the members of the group are no longer capable to using such skills from their personal skill tree until they either recruit a new group member who has such a skill and/or takes the time to learn such on their own.

The existence of a Humanity score, as I've suggested, doesn't punish any particular play style. Rather it enables opportunity for anyone who demonstrates a humane act. The original concept has two parts. A. Define reward system of opportunities. B. Define multiple paths to unlock such. Path A, exchange of loot. Path B, earn minimum humanity score. I suppose you could also follow a third path of A/B. Meaning if the Humanity score to unlock a given opportunity were 500 and you had a score of 250 and another $250 worth of goods to exchange than such an opportunity would be yours to take advantage of. Being good and being humane aren't necessarily joined at the hip. A bandit is capable of being humane if the act itself served a selfish goal. A lone wolf might extend support to a random friendly in order to trade for a much needed item. The level at which we care about the continuation of our species varies from person to person.

Society is the glue which enables the integrity of mans knowledge. Without our humanity, mans ability to maintain the knowledge which allows for the construction of everything from a light bulb to the most advanced micro processor erodes over time. Without our humanity, mans ability to train folks in the art of dance and brain surgery fades with future generations. Without our humanity the history of who we were and when we were here dissolves into the sands themselves. Collectively we represent humanity. Through our compassion we endeavor, from generation to generation, to improve our stake. If DayZ aims to accurately model the real world in a post apocalyptic setting then tools or mechanics which allow folks to do more than build tent camps and amass loot need to exist. Rocket, during the youtube vid he recorded with SideStafe ( ), suggests the creation of such tools are paramount to taking the game beyond one mans experiment. If you've not already watched the vid I suggest doing so. The man, Rocket, is very interested in the success of DayZ beyond enabling random folks with the ability to play out their ax murderer or bandit fantasies.

In the real world there are many numerous benefits to being an active member of a community. Some of which are gained through no effort of your own. Other benefits require your time and energy to realize. Such is the mechanic I believe necessary to enable the path of the humanity-reclaimers in the wold of DayZ. Again, what we're discussing is as follows: 1. A set of rewards unlocked by either the exchange of goods (value for value) or meeting a given opportunities minimum Humanity score. 2. Humanity is earned through, direct, peer to peer support. Hand a fellow survivor a can of beans earn the value of the beans in Humanity. Some suggestions for the types of opportunities unlocked: - learn to bandage wounds more efficiently - improved weapon accuracy - operate complicated vehicles - generate power - reinforce structures - etc..

I agree in principle however I wouldn't say the bandit has the most rewarding path. I would however say he has the quickest path to achieving some measurement of success. The rewards for choosing the virtuous path of reclaiming humanity-lost are strength in numbers and, potentially, accelerating ones ability to earn Humanity. The more folks in your group the more folks there are to support. The more support you offer the higher your humanity score. The higher your score the more opportunities are made available. How large of a group do you join? If you're the leader how large do you allow your group to become? The larger the group the more difficult your job in ensuring everyone is properly nourished. With a finite amount of resources available the competition for survival, within such a group, will be difficult to manage. Smaller groups would make necessities more readily available however the rate at which your Humanity score grows would be less than if you were to join a larger group. For bandits, whether alone or in groups, similar issues will arise. Banding together improves your ability to acquire loot. The more loot the more opportunities. The more opportunities the greater your capabilities to enforce your will upon the world. Though size enables a stronger force, with larger groups come the same issues found by those who choose the virtuous path. Enabling a mechanic such as a Humanity score doesn't change the nature of the game in my opinion. Bandits will still exist and honestly I see no reason to deter their behavior. I enjoy the chaos they bring to DayZ. Without them players would become bored with playing zombie whack a mole. What it boils down to is this: whether bandit, lone wolf or humanitarian, beyond mere survival, what does the game offer? With a reward system of opportunities and a means to earn such, whether through the acquisition of loot and/or humanity score, I believe paths would start to develop. Paths which lead to forces attempting to reclaim humanity, forces bent on anarchy and every shade of gray in between. All of which would give rise to players caring more about how they play their first 30 minutes and also how they play their last 5.

Well said. Perhaps my altruism was showing through... The bandit chooses the quickest path at the cost of his morals. The lone wolf's lack of belief in anything drives him to seek his own rewards at his own pace. And those looking to reclaim humanity-lost have the most difficult path and arguably the most rewarding... Today, in the real world, we benefit from the efforts of those who came before us. So that, perhaps the relavant virtue you suggest plays more of a part during the building phase. Meaning, I could imagine the difficulty of building a group. Base of operations, etc.. Once built, however, my new community filled with like minded folks, all supporting each other, would accelerate my ability to bump my Humanity score and thus open the doors to opportunity that much faster.

I believe you and I, 00dlez, are closer in agreement than you suggest. Just as in the real world, the paths to opportunity are varied. The bandit, lone wolf and those looking to reclaim humanity-lost, provided the mechanic I suggest, would all have access to the same set of opportunities. What differs is the amount of energy required to enable such. The lone wolf, scratching his way through the world, would in time amass the goods necessary to exchange. The bandit would do the same through plundering his fellow survivors. Those looking to reclaim humanity-lost would do so by way of the Humanity score.

DayZ attempts to model realism in a fictitious world. Shouldn't the game encourage behavior which makes folks in the real world successful? I don't feel turning ones humanity into a means of enabling access/opportunity turns DayZ into 'another' MMORPG. Rather a proper development of ones humanity score, I believe, is the mechanic required to bring the game within balance. What motivates action in DayZ? If such a world were real, would you care of nothing more than what you could amass in a given day? Wouldn't you care about tomorrow, next week, next year? To suggest otherwise would be to ignore mans history. As I defined, building your Humanity score isn't required for success. Just as in the real world you have the option to choose your path. The bandit's path, void of humanity, is still capable of opening doors. Opportunity, in such a case, is earned through the trade of goods acquired in his travels. The individual who roams the world alone scratching out his way, the bandit who preys upon the unsuspecting and those with their eye on re-claiming humanity-lost all have paths to explore in such a world. The mechanic I suggest makes such possible.

*** MAJOR THREAD REVISION - SEE BELOW *** As I listened to SideStrafe's interview with Rocket ( ) I found myself thinking about ways in which the game could encourage behavior which more closely mirrored the real world.If I were alone on an island the amount of energy required to gather a meal which sustained my existence would be considerably greater than if I were to live in a large city. On the island, and alone, I only benefit from the energy I produce. Whereas in the large city folks all around me are working day and night to achieve success in one form or another. Because of my proximity to their efforts I am able to spend less time focusing on where my next meal is coming from and more time focusing my efforts on other goals. Goals Provide a series of rewards which, if unlocked, improve players ability to survive. Provide, voluntary, mechanism for promoting cooperation beyond mere survival. Reward Examples - Bandage wounds more efficiently - Improve weapon skill (based on specialization) - Improve ability to convert ammo from one weapon type to another - Harvest more meat per animal kill - Improve endurance (more efficiently use food and water) - Improve map reading (adds additional meta data to maps - Mechanics skills (keep vehicles alive longer) - Operate complex vehicles (aircraft) - Generate power - Reinforce structures - etc.. Unlocking Rewards All loot collectable via the world of DayZ has an associated value. Players have the option to either convert an item, directly, into base-skill or use such in the form of support to another player. Both actions produce the same result. The value of the item is added to the players base-skill. Via the skill menu players will have the option of unlocking skills when minimum thresholds, based on a players base-skill value, are met. Earning Base-skill 1) Bob the bandit loots an AK off an unsuspecting bambi. Bob, with an assault rifle already in his pack, accesses his experience menu in order to convert the AK into additional base-skill. 2) Sam the survivor has a friend, Frank, whose just been mauled by a horde of agro'd Zeds. Sam quickly dispatches the Zeds with his silenced pistol, apply's a bandage, epiepen, morphine and a blood bag. The value of the items applied are immediately added to Sam's base-skill. Now Frank is also out of ammo. Sam has extra AK ammo in his pack. Accessing the skill menu Sam places 3 mags in Franks pack. Note: assets, once transfered via the skill menu, no longer provide an increase to base-skill if transferred a second time. 3) Once learned, a skill can be taught to others. Sam having taken the time to unlock the 'Improve weapon skill' accesses Frank's skill menu in order to teach Frank how to better use his AK to ensure the Zeds don't continue to own his bambi tail.