Death should really be the end.

[Flam625 8]

Much simpler solution, when you die you're banned from the server for 24-72 hours. That way a bunch of other people have a fair go at your stuff.

Of course clans can always just move and resupply you, that will be far harder to solve.

That wouldnt be fair, BOOM HACKER. or if you cant connect to servfers due to the country you live in IE: Australia, they can only use there servers or they experience uber lag and shit

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Firstly, paying for a new copy of the game after every death was never mentioned by me, don't try and drag this discussions down to childish exaggerations.

It's neither childish nor an exaggeration. You wanted to know what place resurrection had in the game and I answered you. Without it, we would have to buy a new CD key every time we died. You can either come back to life after you die or not. It's that simple.

Secondly, are you seriously trying to suggest that the biggest penalty connected to death is losing your zombies killed counter? and that your experiences in this game exists within a sprite and that those experiences and memories of the games played vanish when that sprite dies? Is this a troll?, It is written in such a serious tone that I simply can't tell.

No troll, son. There's more to death than a gun and some tool-belt items. And, yes, part of that is losing connection with the history of the character. When I had a 42 Day old survivor I could look back on his life and recount all of the things he had gone through to get him where he was. The near misses, the life saving moments, the mistakes, the triumphs, etc. All of that was connected to my current survival, along with a mass of zombie kills, bandit kills, distance walked, and probably 70+ hours of survival in the game.

When I died, I lost all of it. No, I didn't magically forget all of the experiences, but they were no longer tied to my character. I could no longer say proudly "This is the same survivor that rescued you from that burning bus all those many weeks ago." I was newflesh again. All washed away.

And you think I thought for one solitary second about my gun or Map or a couple smoke grenades?

Equipment is not what makes a survivor. And losing it is not what makes death hurt. Not for me and not for other people I know who truly immerse themselves in the game and enjoy the sense of building a story and history around their character.

People like you who think the game is just about "stuff" might see the act of reacquiring your equipment after death as a violation of the concept of permanent death, but for myself it's an afterthought. Getting my old gun back doesn't give me my old life back, and it doesn't reconnect the history of my character with my newly spawned survivor.

Personally I prefer it that way. "Oh, no, I lost my stuff" should not be what's on your mind when you die. It should be "Oh, no. My survivor died and his story has come to an end." It's a lot more emotional that way. And personal.

[Flam625 8]

It's neither childish nor an exaggeration. You wanted to know what place resurrection had in the game and I answered you. Without it, we would have to buy a new CD key every time we died. You can either come back to life after you die or not. It's that simple.

No troll, son. There's more to death than a gun and some tool-belt items. And, yes, part of that is losing connection with the history of the character. When I had a 42 Day old survivor I could look back on his life and recount all of the things he had gone through to get him where he was. The near misses, the life saving moments, the mistakes, the triumphs, etc. All of that was connected to my current survival, along with a mass of zombie kills, bandit kills, distance walked, and probably 70+ hours of survival in the game.

When I died, I lost all of it. No, I didn't magically forget all of the experiences, but they were no longer tied to my character. I could no longer say proudly "This is the same survivor that rescued you from that burning bus all those many weeks ago." I was newflesh again. All washed away.

And you think I thought for one solitary second about my gun or Map or a couple smoke grenades?

Equipment is not what makes a survivor. And losing it is not what makes death hurt. Not for me and not for other people I know who truly immerse themselves in the game and enjoy the sense of building a story and history around their character.

People like you who think the game is just about "stuff" might see the act of reacquiring your equipment after death as a violation of the concept of permanent death, but for myself it's an afterthought. Getting my old gun back doesn't give me my old life back, and it doesn't reconnect the history of my character with my newly spawned survivor.

Personally I prefer it that way. "Oh, no, I lost my stuff" should not be what's on your mind when you die. It should be "Oh, no. My survivor died and his story has come to an end." It's a lot more emotional that way. And personal.

In standalone there going to track your record for survival time, kills, distance walked and ETC... so you always trieing to push that record and dieing resets your 1 hour a way record breaker to 0 so all progress made is GONE, plus the devs are thinking of a reward sysetm for breaking set records and making new ones. So now all that means much more than what it does now.

[wolfstriked 143]

It's one of those arbitrary rules that i tend to hate in games.

Its not perfect but it adds a more severe death penalty yet retains the game as it stands right now.This will make you actually strive to survive rather than just go to town and PVP for the Lulz...

In standalone there going to track your record for survival time, kills, distance walked and ETC... so you always trieing to push that record and dieing resets your 1 hour a way record breaker to 0 so all progress made is GONE, plus the devs are thinking of a reward sysetm for breaking set records and making new ones. So now all that means much more than what it does now.

I do not care at all what my stats are.If I die and have 15 bandit kills it just means I screwed over 15 people and gives me no joy whatsoever.Now if I die after getting to the next map I would be pissed the mutha fucking off!!!LOL maybe its not a good thing to do then as it might make people not even want to play the game.Maybe 12 actual game played hours is less severe.

[SkrooLoose (DayZ) 143]

There's more to death than a gun and some tool-belt items. And, yes, part of that is losing connection with the history of the character. When I had a 42 Day old survivor I could look back on his life and recount all of the things he had gone through to get him where he was. The near misses, the life saving moments, the mistakes, the triumphs, etc. All of that was connected to my current survival, along with a mass of zombie kills, bandit kills, distance walked, and probably 70+ hours of survival in the game.

When I died, I lost all of it. No, I didn't magically forget all of the experiences, but they were no longer tied to my character. I could no longer say proudly "This is the same survivor that rescued you from that burning bus all those many weeks ago." I was newflesh again. All washed away.

I completely understand the point you're making, and fully appreciate it. After all, that IS how DayZ is meant to be played; survival for as long as possible.

Equipment is not what makes a survivor. And losing it is not what makes death hurt. Not for me and not for other people I know who truly immerse themselves in the game and enjoy the sense of building a story and history around their character.

But Zed, maybe you don't see it this way but many of us do; by being able to restock your new spawn at a tent saved from a previous life, you are robbing yourself from some of those very experiences which you say (and I agree with) are important to you.

By grabbing an Alice and food from a previous life's tent, you're missing out on the thrill of having to go in to town with nothing to defend yourself with. Never knowing if you're being hunted or not.

By grabbing a Coyote and (xxx) weapon from a previous life's tent, you're missing out on having to go in to military areas with nothing more than sticks-n-stones to defend yourself with.

And so on.

So yes, I completely agree with you when you say "Equipment is not what makes a survivor.". It's not about the equipment; but it is about the experiences which come with looting the equipment. And by being able to loot your previous life's tent, you're robbing yourself of those experiences.

Edited August 23, 2012 by OFC_Bill

[harley001 315]

No. Would break to much. I am currently basing with my fellow bandits. I set up all the tents. So if i die i am screwed? Dayz is hard enouth. ALL YOU PEOPLE ASKING FOR IT BE HARDER DOSENT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE ASKING FOR! Trust me.

[SkrooLoose (DayZ) 143]

Trust you why?

If you can't handle realism and are looking for an easy game to play, why do you want to play DayZ? What are you going to do when the duping bugs are fix? Are you going to quit playing then?

*edit

Just wanted to add that I don't mean that as an insult. You're entitled to your opinion and I completely respect that. I'm truly asking why you would want to play a simulation if it weren't hard and there weren't tough choices to make?

Edited August 24, 2012 by OFC_Bill

[Spart248 80]

This idea would only promote banditry, which in case you didn't know, doesn't need any more promoting.

No tents means that people are less likely to bother to form groups because they can't set up a small base camp with barbed wire and tents to store there stuff. Therefore, people will just go and be bandits rather than Heroes. Not only would this promote banditry, but it would also reduce endgame content. Right now (as well as in the future), endgame content includes collecting a vast amount of rare, valuable items in the game. You need a place to put those items, otherwise there is no point and it makes the game less fun.

Removal of vehiclce saves has a similar effect, but will just piss people off more and many people will leave the game. Vehicle disappears after 24 hours? That is bullshit. You play for weeks and one day you happen to actually find a Helicopter and you play with it for a while, hide it, then get off. All that time playing and searching for something as rare as that now.....gone.

No different than some of the glitches that ruin the game at times.

[SkrooLoose (DayZ) 143]

Your hidden loot dying with you when you die would only promote banditry?

Really?

It's be all the more reason to form groups (that is if those players feel the need to have gear simply handed to them, instead of requiring it). That way when you respawn you can just run to your buddies and they can re-arm you.

And you're saying that endgame is about who has the biggest stash of rare loot? In a sim where loot, both common and rare, respawn no later than each server restart?

I thought it was about survival.

[bazbake 456]

I don't see it, Spart248.

Bandits commit banditry 1) for fun and 2) to get good loot. By forcing bandits to risk everything they have to kill someone, bandits are less likely to kill for fun and less likely to gamble with the loot they have to kill a random stranger.

You don't need a vast supply of crap waiting back at home to group up. People group up in Battlefield and and CoD and Team Fortress all the time. You may be less likely to build camps, since you'd have nothing to put them in, but you might actually work harder to coordinate if your heavy gunner couldn't carry food or medicine. In fact, it would probably motivate groups in other ways to cooperate with each other.

Why would a lack of hoarding motivate banditry instead of heroism? The can of beans someone offers you as payment is far more valuable when you can't carry around 20 cans of beans. The blood bag you offer a dying player is that much more valuable when they don't have 8 steaks waiting at home for them.

And right now there's no such thing as endgame content. There's just item hoarding and boredom (seriously, read the boards). If people lost everything they had when they died, EVERYTHING would be endgame content because staying at endgame would last only a matter of days instead of months (unless you're awesome like that one dude who lived for 50 days and lost it all and was like, "Shit...oh well, this game is AWESOME!" Now THAT is someone I want to play beside.)

Long story short, if you have everything, you value nothing. If you can lose everything, you value it all. This applies to heroes and bandits. Now that is the game that not just I but you and everyone else signed up for. You've adapted to something different but that's not the game you thought you would be playing unless you had a friend who told you about storage ahead of time. It's definitely not the game Rocket pitched.

Actually, if helicopters respawned every 24 hours, they wouldn't be rare anymore...because people wouldn't be hoarding them....

It's like diamonds. They're only rare because they're all locked away in vaults. Let everyone have one and no one cares anymore.

[Spart248 80]

Your hidden loot dying with you when you die would only promote banditry?

Really?

It's be all the more reason to form groups (that is if those players feel the need to have gear simply handed to them, instead of requiring it). That way when you respawn you can just run to your buddies and they can re-arm you.

And you're saying that endgame is about who has the biggest stash of rare loot? In a sim where loot, both common and rare, respawn no later than each server restart?

I thought it was about survival.

I was not responding directly to the OP, bud. If you read the comments (including mine) you would realize I am addressing specific suggestions that are not necessarily all pat of the OP.

Technically, it is part of endgame to have the "biggest stash" of rare loot. Even though it respawns, some items are extremely rare and very few people have them. (Even rarer, Mountain Dew). It is about survival, but also many of the aspects that are associated with survival. The fact that many of the rarest items in the game are many of the best items in the game means that in order to excel at surviving, one does indeed need many of the rarest items in the game.

Just because they respawn every server restart (which isn't even that common) doesn't mean that everyone has them or has easy access to them.

[Delta Smoke 01 765]

Complete database wipe and a fix for duping would be the ideal solution. Likely for the standalone though as it would take a lot of work to fix the duping.

[bazbake 456]

People like you who think the game is just about "stuff" might see the act of reacquiring your equipment after death as a violation of the concept of permanent death, but for myself it's an afterthought. Getting my old gun back doesn't give me my old life back, and it doesn't reconnect the history of my character with my newly spawned survivor.

Personally I prefer it that way. "Oh, no, I lost my stuff" should not be what's on your mind when you die. It should be "Oh, no. My survivor died and his story has come to an end." It's a lot more emotional that way. And personal.

Well put. Which is why you don't care about storage and are completely on the side of losing everything you have when you die. Anything else would be an unnatural attachment to petty trinkets that don't shape your character at all.

[Spart248 80]

I don't see it, Spart248.

Bandits commit banditry 1) for fun and 2) to get good loot. By forcing bandits to risk everything they have to kill someone, bandits are less likely to kill for fun and less likely to gamble with the loot they have to kill a random stranger.

You don't need a vast supply of crap waiting back at home to group up. People group up in Battlefield and and CoD and Team Fortress all the time. You may be less likely to build camps, since you'd have nothing to put them in, but you might actually work harder to coordinate if your heavy gunner couldn't carry food or medicine. In fact, it would probably motivate groups in other ways to cooperate with each other.

Why would a lack of hoarding motivate banditry instead of heroism? The can of beans someone offers you as payment is far more valuable when you can't carry around 20 cans of beans. The blood bag you offer a dying player is that much more valuable when they don't have 8 steaks waiting at home for them.

And right now there's no such thing as endgame content. There's just item hoarding and boredom (seriously, read the boards). If people lost everything they had when they died, EVERYTHING would be endgame content because staying at endgame would last only a matter of days instead of months (unless you're awesome like that one dude who lived for 50 days and lost it all and was like, "Shit...oh well, this game is AWESOME!" Now THAT is someone I want to play beside.)

Long story short, if you have everything, you value nothing. If you can lose everything, you value it all. This applies to heroes and bandits. Now that is the game that not just I but you and everyone else signed up for. You've adapted to something different but that's not the game you thought you would be playing unless you had a friend who told you about storage ahead of time. It's definitely not the game Rocket pitched.

Actually, if helicopters respawned every 24 hours, they wouldn't be rare anymore...because people wouldn't be hoarding them....

It's like diamonds. They're only rare because they're all locked away in vaults. Let everyone have one and no one cares anymore.

I can see what you mean that banditry is not very much promoted by by the removal of tents, but you are wrong about the Helicopters and endgame content.

First of all, just because a helicopter respawns every 24 hours does not mean it will be easy to get. People will still run to the spawn of it like mad, even more so than before because they know the chance of it being there is greater. However, the fact that so many individual people will be swarming there fighting each other means that probably only the big groups of super organized, well equip people will be able to acquire them, unless on a server with like 3 people, of course. They will be the only ones to successfully defend a helicopter spawn while repairing it and killing other single or small grouped players going for it. Not only that, but they can then just barricade the helicopter spawn with barbed wire and tank traps and make a little fortress there defending it until it spawns every 24 hours. This, obviously, will largely negate lone wolf gameplay.

And on no endgame content, sure, maybe there may not be any "endgame content" by the dictionary definition of the damn phrase. It should be pretty obvious I am referencing what to do in the late game. As in, what after Cherno and Stary when you have a few good weapons and food and what not. Well, there are a handful of things. Some of which are starting a group (like FTC or DrWasteland's group), killing players, laying waste on towns full of zombies, or collecting more weapons to stack up like snipers and more ammo and what not to keep in your small woodland tent-base (which usually precedes these other options).

[bazbake 456]

So in the current system people don't guard vehicles?

[gywidion@msn.com 80]

I'd like to see a 24hour death ban for servers on the "Elite" difficulty setting. And server swapping between different difficulty levels disabled.

I like this idea a lot. I think it would also inspire cooperation and less shoot on site. The problem right now is that death is not permadeath, it is pretty much the same as respawning in any number of games (COD, BF, ect). There is no real loss when you can respawn and regear in a short time and rejoin the fight. It should be more about survival as I think is the original intent of the mod, immersion.

Having this as an option like 3rd person, sights, and the like would be best as it would be a server option and not a game feature. This may even allow those who want safer servers to have some fun, banding together to kill a bandit preying on people in town, it would effectively remove that threat for a day, making it seem much more immersive.

As for storage, I say leave it alone, it needs to be there. Knowing that you will lose access for 24 hours on death, your stuff will likely be looted anyway.

You have my beans.

Edited August 24, 2012 by katniss

[miket 92]

Before I start I understand that this probably isn't possible with the arma 2 engine, more an idea for the stand alone.

My suggestion is to make death for real. No more gear stashing, no more saved vehicles, no more getting your stuff back from your body or having a buddy pick it up for you. Once you die you start again at the coast with only the starting items and you will be unable to pick up anything you owned in your previous life. It will really add to the desperate survival aspect of the game.

Who's with me?

So someone kills me, and they pick up my stuff. Later, I find them and kill them. Can I then pick up my stuff? If someone finds him and kills him first, can I pick my stuff off the third person? What about the fourth person an item is possessed by?

I personally know the story of an AK-74 which transferred hands about 6 times before being returned to the person who originally found it at a barracks. Would this person not have been able to retrieve his original AK-74 because he owned it several hours ago?

And finally, if two allies own the same gun, and one dies, won't those people just swap guns? This effectively means there will be no penalty for groups of players, but individual players will still be penalised.

Idea simply doesn't work.

[Hetstaine 10852]

Lol, GG.

So, once you die it bans your ID?

Close but no cigar..Rocket comes over and hatchets you to death when you open the door.

[SkrooLoose (DayZ) 143]

I was not responding directly to the OP, bud. If you read the comments (including mine) you would realize I am addressing specific suggestions that are not necessarily all pat of the OP.

Alright then, my bad.

Being as it's up to 4 pages and you were not responding to the topic, don't you think quoting what you were replying to would have been appropriate? Either way, my apologizes.

[Wiley 49]

It seems to me you guys who are in favor of the tents disappearing might be looking at things from the wrong end. Losing all your stuff on death isn't 'punishment' exactly, it's a result of you dying and your corpse keeping its items so the guy who killed you can loot it.

The philosophy Rocket seems to be proposing is, give us the tools, we do with them what we like. With some of the more ambitious ideas I've seen him mention to do with base building and so on, it seems to me that we may eventually have the possibility to do things like set up a trading post, or a hospital, or a casino, or whatever else comes into our heads. The difference between this game and what most people are expecting is, there will be no 'build trading post' button. It will have to be staffed and protected by players who set it up themselves.

We're early in game development right now, but I'd respectfully submit that you guys that are talking about 'survival being the point of the game' might be looking at it a bit shortsightedly.

Or maybe all my speculation is wrong.

[ytman18@gmail.com 9]

Unless of course your a coordinated bad ass team of gatherers I think future tent/camps will have very few supplies and hardly any spare guns .

This is still something he should address, not now, but some time after initial release. I mean DayZ started out really spartan with military grade loot and it just got out of hand quickly. Right now its terrible due to a hive glitch but... back before all of this our group had legitamately obtained ridiculous amounts of mil grade loot and spread it so far apart that you can't walk 400 meters in our server without become fully equipped.

[Uuni 74]

This would just result in more deathmatch so I am against it. Once your inventory full of good stuff it's either find more stuff or go shoot players. I rather hoard vehicles and items than go shoot players at the coastline

[wolfstriked 143]

I still think Chenarus should be starter map and the next map should be where advanced players go to upgrade to the better equipment and die.So by making Chenarus wiped clean of any advanced equipment(assault rifles/sniper/NVG stuff)you now have a way to make players feel death more as you will have to respawn in noob world till certain conditions are met.You also force a feeling of advancement that Dayz lacks by making new spawned players strive to survive to make it to the next kooler map.The next map can have more in terms of larger cities,junkyards,huge cemetaries,humongous military base etc to fight and survive in.

Edited August 24, 2012 by wolfstriked

[SkrooLoose (DayZ) 143]

So someone kills me, and they pick up my stuff. Later, I find them and kill them. Can I then pick up my stuff? If someone finds him and kills him first, can I pick my stuff off the third person? What about the fourth person an item is possessed by?

I personally know the story of an AK-74 which transferred hands about 6 times before being returned to the person who originally found it at a barracks. Would this person not have been able to retrieve his original AK-74 because he owned it several hours ago?

And finally, if two allies own the same gun, and one dies, won't those people just swap guns? This effectively means there will be no penalty for groups of players, but individual players will still be penalised.

Idea simply doesn't work.

Sure it would; the idea of losing your stashed gear/loot upon death would work just fine.

If it were real life, you were a loner and you died, your new character would not know where your old self died or stored loot was. But if your old life was part of a group and you died, that group re-gearing your new life would be no different than that group finding a stranger on the beach and taking him in and helping him out. This is because your respawn is a brand new person, as if you just fired up DayZ for the very first time, and not simply a respawn of your character who just died.

As for requiring your gear off of another player; if said player kills you and takes your gear, it's then their gear. So if you in return kill that player, you're not taking your old gear because it was never YOUR old gear. You are now a completely new human being (meaning within the realm of the game, naturally) and that old gear never belonged to you; it belonged to another who had died before you.

[keosan24 55]

Sure it would; the idea of losing your stashed gear/loot upon death would work just fine.

If it were real life, you were a loner and you died, your new character would not know where your old self died or stored loot was. But if your old life was part of a group and you died, that group re-gearing your new life would be no different than that group finding a stranger on the beach and taking him in and helping him out. This is because your respawn is a brand new person, as if you just fired up DayZ for the very first time, and not simply a respawn of your character who just died.

As for requiring your gear off of another player; if said player kills you and takes your gear, it's then their gear. So if you in return kill that player, you're not taking your old gear because it was never YOUR old gear. You are now a completely new human being (meaning within the realm of the game, naturally) and that old gear never belonged to you; it belonged to another who had died before you.

Alright so the thread maker had said if you died you wouldnt be able to pick up your old gun but it really wouldnt matter because your freshly spawned character isnt the same character who previously owned the gun so he should be able to pick it up right? or am i missing something?