Death should really be the end.

[deercr0ssing 0]

Here's the thing, this is a simulation game. So you want to be realistic as possible. But it's also a strategy game. And storage is a fundamental part of strategizing. By getting around this it isn't cheating, You don't want to get your stuff back? Fine. So don't? I don't understand how this ruins your personal game play. Especially when someone can easily loot your body. Trust me, I LOVE the permadeath. That makes the game. But I don't think storage takes away from this. I'm not guaranteed my supplies. I can be killed along the way again. And every time I start back on the coast having to spend all that time walking again. I agree, the game is hard enough already. No reason to make the average life span to go from one hour to one minute.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

This doesn't have to get personal, but you are obviously someone who is afraid to play the game.

No, no. I like playing the game just fine. I wouldn't want to play your version of it because it's shallow, uninteresting and short-term which completely defeats the purpose of having a persistent world. Without storage, DayZ might as well play like ARMA 2 - instanced missions that come and go. What's the point of having a persistent world that saves its state if there is no method by which players can accumulate supplies over long periods of time?

There is nothing stopping you from cooperating with other players. There is nothing stopping your medic from carrying a rifle, 30 healing supplies, and 10 cans of food and soda. And he'll probably never use all of it. There is nothing stopping your mechanic from carrying two primary weapons, three wheels, and a jerry can just in case. There is nothing stopping a squad of players from dividing their loadout and traveling the world as a team with everything that team needs to survive and stay alive.

What if I want to recruit new players into my squad and outfit them quickly? What if I want to create a player-run hospital and supply my own medics with blood, morphine and antibiotics? What if I want to repair a vehicle (which requires more than 3 wheels and a jerry can)? What if I want to have a long-range loadout ready for days when I need to play over-watch and a short or medium range loadout in storage for days when I need to be prepared for urban combat? What if I want to extend the survivability of my team by stockpiling food and supplies so they do not have to enter populated areas and endanger their lives every time they get thirsty? What if I want to run a supply depot and trade weapons for car parts and medical supplies? What if I want to build a larger structure such as a fort or underground base, or repair and maintain the vehicles and equipment I get which will soon undergo degradation and disrepair as per rocket? What if I want to try and rebuild motherfucking civilization? I have to do it out of my backpack? Yes. Sorry. Insane and retarded both come to mind.

In what ridiculous fucking universe does it make any sense whatsoever that I wouldn't want to store some survival supplies and equipment somewhere? What kind of survivor says "Well, there's a lot of food and important supplies over there but there's no room in my backpack so I'm just going to let it rot." Fucking ridiculous.

And don't get me started on vehicles. How would removing vehicle storage hinder your ability to repair vehicles? I'm absolutely curious.

Because when I repair vehicles I don't do it like a retard. I find out what the vehicle needs, and then I go gather those parts slowly and methodically until I have every part I need and then I use one of my existing vehicles to drive in, repair the damaged vehicle quickly, and get out safely.

Instead of your method which would basically require running back and forth and forth and back and forth and back and forth over and over like a goddamn circus clown to bring items one at a fucking time from kilometers away just because you don't think a pick-up truck has a bed or a military supply vehicle a place to put motherfucking supplies.

The reason I haven't been convinced by you yet and generally try to ignore you is because your biggest complaint is, "But then if I die I have to start all over again!"

No, that's not even one of my complaints let alone the biggest. And it's not you I'm trying to convince. I can tell from reading your posts that you will never be convinced of anything. Instead I just plan on following you around and pointing out at every opportunity what a ridiculous loon you are with respect to player storage so that other players who come by and read the discussions won't mistake your ideas for legitimate contributions to the mod and wonder whether they might have to be afraid of the kind of de-evolution in mechanics and depth for which you constantly advocate.

What do you think permadeath means!? Hey, here's an idea -- don't die. What game do you think you're playing? This isn't World of Warcraft. There's no purple gear. There's nothing you can't find in 8 hours of gametime and no max-damage weapon you can't find in 4.

Okay, then what fucking difference does it make if I find it in 1 hour or 30 minutes because I have it stored in a tent? You just undermined your entire fucking argument.

You're right. Gear is not important. Finding it is not hard. So letting me store some in a tent doesn't really undermine the pain of death.

Your problem is you think the game is about gear. When I die I don't give a flying fuck what gear I had. I care about my story, the history of my character, losing contact with friends, getting cut off from my squad, resetting my zombie kill count and days survived, etc.

Gear is not the point to the game. So storing it does not undermine anything let alone the "fundamental design" of the game.

Of course, according to the numerous polls on this forum, most people find your position to be unmoving. Not many people will take you seriously. Probably because they knew what they signed up for.

Link me to these polls where people agree that storage should be removed? Please?

LOL, yeah. I just finished watching a gamescom interview where Rocket pointed out that starting on the beach alone and disoriented is "fundamental" to the gameplay. You found a way around the point of the game, but that doesn't mean you're entitled to keep things the way they are.

Is that the same interview where he talked about letting squads build underground bases for persistent storage that wouldn't be able to be infiltrated while they were offline?

That rocket, and that interview?

You putz.

If you die you should be totally fucked. That's how the game was designed.

It's obviously not how the game was designed.

Hopefully, you take what I said to heart and cease begging me to tear into you again

Oh, please son. Tear into me all you want. Take all the time you need. I welcome your tiny little kitten claws. Meow.

That's really what this comes down to. You can't handle permadeath.

No, what it comes down to is that I understand that gear storage doesn't have any effect on how permadeath impacts me as a player. Because unlike you I realize the game isn't about gear or loot. It's about player interactions, stories, and creating and fostering an emotional presence in the world.

It's ironic you accuse me of wanting to play WoW when you're obviously the one who is obsessed about gear and equipment. If you really thing having some shit in a tent takes away the sting of death, then you value gear far more than I do.

Edited August 21, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[schrapple 119]

It's pretty simple, the most fun (and terror) I have experienced in this game is just fighting to survive. I don't see why reality should be completely ignored so that some kid who has become bored with BF3 can gather enough gear to become a one man army and turn this game into a FPS. Perma death doesn't have to make the game impossibly hard either, it will just need to be rebalanced, if you have reached a point in the game where surviving has become easy then the game mechanic is inherently flawed, the game should always pose a challenge and being able to die and almost instantly be restored to your former glory allows you to bypass the challenge of the game and return to a point where you are nearly untouchable.

At the end of the day reality has to be compromised to make games work, a game that was absolutely true to life would be unplayable. But bending the rules of the world so far that death is no penalty in a game the is about survival is a complete contradiction, if you are able to resurrect yourself in a survival simulation then what is the purpose of the game? it's no longer survival is it?

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

Yes, you got killed and it should change EVERYTHING. DayZ is meant to be a sim and death should be PERMANENT.

How can it be permanent if you spawn a new character and that new character "magically" knows right where to run to for the dead character's body or tent? In real life, you wouldn't know right where to run and re-gear, so it shouldn't be that way in this sim, either.

My vote is if you die, then your tents and/or vehicles die with you. As for the gear on your dead body, it SHOULD be available for others to loot, but not you yourself.

umm so what happens to the rest of your team if your traveling in said car, and teh driver dies.. does everyone in the car suddenly warp onto the roadside, cuz the car magicaly disappeared ???

sorry but its a bad idea that wont work in DayZ, unless theres a singleplayer version.. for that your idea would work perfectly

[SkrooLoose (DayZ) 143]

What if I want to recruit new players into my squad and outfit them quickly? What if I want to create a player-run hospital and supply my own medics with blood, morphine and antibiotics? What if I want to repair a vehicle (which requires more than 3 wheels and a jerry can)? What if I want to have a long-range loadout ready for days when I need to play over-watch and a short or medium range loadout in storage for days when I need to be prepared for urban combat? What if I want to extend the survivability of my team by stockpiling food and supplies so they do not have to enter populated areas and endanger their lives every time they get thirsty? What if I want to run a supply depot and trade weapons for car parts and medical supplies? What if I want to build a larger structure such as a fort or underground base, or repair and maintain the vehicles and equipment I get which will soon undergo degradation and disrepair as per rocket? What if I want to try and rebuild motherfucking civilization? I have to do it out of my backpack? Yes. Sorry. Insane and retarded both come to mind.

No, what it comes down to is that I understand that gear storage doesn't have any effect on how permadeath impacts me as a player. Because unlike you I realize the game isn't about gear or loot. It's about player interactions, stories, and creating and fostering an emotional presence in the world.

You contradict yourself in your own post. You first argue that having storage would be necessary for your style of game play, then you later state that it wouldn't have any effect on you as a player.

So which is it?

I agree that storage is important, but I also believe that death should be final. Once a player dies, so too should his hidden loot.

Edited August 22, 2012 by OFC_Bill

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

You contradict yourself in your own post.

No, I really don't.

The first paragraph discusses group-based, squad-based, and community oriented gear storage goals.

The second says I don't care about my personal "load out" when I die meaning I'm not concerned about "epic lewts" for my "toon" but I do think that there should be long term goals that transcend single players and their individual lives.

I agree that storage is important, but I also believe that death should be final. Once a player dies, so too should his hidden loot.

So you agree if I share a storage space with 20 other people and I die that all of their equipment and gear and work should be arbitrarily erased as well simply because I'm the one who placed the storage container on the ground (understanding of course that any clan will simply purchase a single CD key to act as a storage mule who never plays the game and risks death)?

Or do you agree with the notion that no group of people should have shared storage (which in my opinion completely undermines the idea of community survival)?

Edited August 22, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Rocksteady (DayZ) 0]

^^

Removing shared storage does not prevent people from sharing, game balance is more important than petty realism.

[Rhygar666 26]

How about if you die, you are banned from this specific server for 24 hours?

so if i get killed and respawn lets say in elektro i need to switch the server fine ( well i only play on one server so that sucks) but oh well i switch server start and get sniped, time to search another server, so when im really unlucky i need to get to 2-10 server till i can really start playing, not a good idea, think of all the noobs just trying to switch servers all the time cause theyre banned 24 hours.

[speca 193]

Ultra hardcore mode = You buy the game, you get one life.

Lol, GG.

So, once you die it bans your ID?

[Flam625 8]

Before I start I understand that this probably isn't possible with the arma 2 engine, more an idea for the stand alone.

My suggestion is to make death for real. No more gear stashing, no more saved vehicles, no more getting your stuff back from your body or having a buddy pick it up for you. Once you die you start again at the coast with only the starting items and you will be unable to pick up anything you owned in your previous life. It will really add to the desperate survival aspect of the game.

Who's with me?

This wouldnt work, if your friends cant pick up your loot no one can since in-game no one is labled "Friend" or "Foe" that means killing a player is pointless because you cant get there loot. Because if your "Friends" cant neither can your murderer.

[schrapple 119]

The problem is that storage of things you can reclaim after death is basically resurrection, How on earth can someone claim that ressurrection has any place at all in a survival simulator?

On the community storage front the problem is that in this game a community with players that can resurrect and store gear has literally nothing to fear in this game, What is the point of being invincible in a survival simulator?

[schrapple 119]

This wouldnt work, if your friends cant pick up your loot no one can since in-game no one is labled "Friend" or "Foe" that means killing a player is pointless because you cant get there loot. Because if your "Friends" cant neither can your murderer.

It would have to be a standalone feature but all you need is to make it so an item you owned at the time of your death ( or near to time of death) is tagged and can't be picked up by you once you have respawned. It doesn't fix 100% of the problem but it will fix most of it, which is a lot better than the current system.

[McQueen (DayZ) 1]

I'd like to see a 24hour death ban for servers on the "Elite" difficulty setting. And server swapping between different difficulty levels disabled.

[Dartendal 19]

It's pretty simple, the most fun (and terror) I have experienced in this game is just fighting to survive. I don't see why reality should be completely ignored so that some kid who has become bored with BF3 can gather enough gear to become a one man army and turn this game into a FPS. Perma death doesn't have to make the game impossibly hard either, it will just need to be rebalanced, if you have reached a point in the game where surviving has become easy then the game mechanic is inherently flawed, the game should always pose a challenge and being able to die and almost instantly be restored to your former glory allows you to bypass the challenge of the game and return to a point where you are nearly untouchable.

At the end of the day reality has to be compromised to make games work, a game that was absolutely true to life would be unplayable. But bending the rules of the world so far that death is no penalty in a game the is about survival is a complete contradiction, if you are able to resurrect yourself in a survival simulation then what is the purpose of the game? it's no longer survival is it?

Ways you can prevent that are giving only one life. That's a bad idea, eventually then no one would be able to play because they died,

Completely remove storage. Retarded idea. It takes out a lot of possibilities that the mod and game have. Examples being a trading post, storing essentials that you and your group may have found, player created 'safe zones' like a player run hospital and shit like that.

And then, my personal favorite. The reason camps don't mean shit, is because everything is so easy to find. Weapons, food, water, etc. is incredibly common. There's no real difference in running to your camp, and running to an item's spawn area. Earlier in the thread, someone said your new character shouldn't know where the old one's body was. Well. using that logic, your new character shouldn't know where to find the good loot, where to avoid, etc. And that is impossible. You get better in the mod/game by learning with each of your lives. Also, camps can be found. They can have their things stolen. But it doesn't matter still, because it's easy to come across the majority of things needed to survive. If the essentials, and amazing items in the game are more rare, there will most likely be less camps, as there are less things to store.

[Flam625 8]

Problem 1: Retreiving loot: Getting your stuff back is pretty hard, especially if you die far from shore or by a player. So getting a chance to get it back is perfectly fine and reasonable.

Problem 2: Tent stashing: In real life do you say "Lets not have extra guns" Tents are pretty hard to find and do you like multiple guns? I do. But I dont bring all of them to waste space when I head out looking for supplies. Tent "Hoarding" is again completely fair.

3: Imagine the 100% realistic Zombie survival game, Your guy cant carry a LMG too heavy, Gun in backpack: Too heavy and wouldnt fit. Not enough vitamins. zombie bites you=Game over. Recoil. Gun jams, keep guns clean, zombies travel out of towns and into your camp. Die= Pay 60$ for new copy. OOOOH your sick, Got to take a shit.

Conclusion: Stop complaining, The game is balanced and there has to be a line from completely realistic and fun, alot of traits are cut out to keep it from fun and Part "3"

[schrapple 119]

Ways you can prevent that are giving only one life. That's a bad idea, eventually then no one would be able to play because they died,

Completely remove storage. Retarded idea. It takes out a lot of possibilities that the mod and game have. Examples being a trading post, storing essentials that you and your group may have found, player created 'safe zones' like a player run hospital and shit like that.

And then, my personal favorite. The reason camps don't mean shit, is because everything is so easy to find. Weapons, food, water, etc. is incredibly common. There's no real difference in running to your camp, and running to an item's spawn area. Earlier in the thread, someone said your new character shouldn't know where the old one's body was. Well. using that logic, your new character shouldn't know where to find the good loot, where to avoid, etc. And that is impossible. You get better in the mod/game by learning with each of your lives. Also, camps can be found. They can have their things stolen. But it doesn't matter still, because it's easy to come across the majority of things needed to survive. If the essentials, and amazing items in the game are more rare, there will most likely be less camps, as there are less things to store.

Problem 1: Retreiving loot: Getting your stuff back is pretty hard, especially if you die far from shore or by a player. So getting a chance to get it back is perfectly fine and reasonable.

Problem 2: Tent stashing: In real life do you say "Lets not have extra guns" Tents are pretty hard to find and do you like multiple guns? I do. But I dont bring all of them to waste space when I head out looking for supplies. Tent "Hoarding" is again completely fair.

3: Imagine the 100% realistic Zombie survival game, Your guy cant carry a LMG too heavy, Gun in backpack: Too heavy and wouldnt fit. Not enough vitamins. zombie bites you=Game over. Recoil. Gun jams, keep guns clean, zombies travel out of towns and into your camp. Die= Pay 60$ for new copy. OOOOH your sick, Got to take a shit.

Conclusion: Stop complaining, The game is balanced and there has to be a line from completely realistic and fun, alot of traits are cut out to keep it from fun and Part "3"

And still no one has been able to explain what place resurrection (or something very close to it) has in a survival simulator, what is the point to a survival game if death has basically no penalty???

[Zeppa 562]

How about when you die, your body changes place after specified time, lets say 5 minutes after so the killer has change of looting you. Tent changes place that you wont know where they are... for both something like random spawn spot in certain radius of the origin? So you still have a somewhat change to get your stuff back.

Well it would suck for group tent to be moved, tough it would make you more cautious not to die when your group will suffer from it too.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Zeppa

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

And still no one has been able to explain what place resurrection (or something very close to it) has in a survival simulator

The only alternative is permanent death which means you need to buy another copy of the game every time you die which I think you would agree is an unsustainable business model and a very unsatisfying game experience.

what is the point to a survival game if death has basically no penalty???

We have discussed that. Getting a gun and a few bullets doesn't give me back my 42 Day survival counter. It doesn't give me back my 1250 zombie kills or 30 bandit kills or 600km travel distance. It doesn't mean I spawn next to my friends able to assist them further in whatever armed conflict we were involved in when I died. It doesn't return the vehicle I was driving at the time or the contents therein. It doesn't connect my new survivor with all the experiences, story and history that my old one. Play DayZ a bit longer and you will realize that the pain of death has very little to do with dropping a gun and a few tools on the ground. The pain comes from losing your life which is how it should be.

Losing items is not the only or even primary penalty for death. If you believe it is and therefore think recovering a few items means there's "no penalty" then I submit that you place far too much value on equipment.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Still, the fear of death isn't present enough.

[C0LDKILL (DayZ) 34]

This would be better as a game mode. Myself and many people like me think this would be a TERRIBLE IDEA. The whole point of the game for me is building a nest. Getting settled in an surviving. If I die, I don't want all of my time and efforts being all but wasted because some hacker joined and mass killed everybody, or a door pinches me between the bench in the barracks at the northwest airfield. PvP will become even more rare than it already is because nobody will ever want to take the risk of dying.

Regular, Veteran, and Hardcore(lose everything) game modes.

[schrapple 119]

The only alternative is permanent death which means you need to buy another copy of the game every time you die which I think you would agree is an unsustainable business model and a very unsatisfying game experience.

We have discussed that. Getting a gun and a few bullets doesn't give me back my 42 Day survival counter. It doesn't give me back my 1250 zombie kills or 30 bandit kills or 600km travel distance. It doesn't mean I spawn next to my friends able to assist them further in whatever armed conflict we were involved in when I died. It doesn't return the vehicle I was driving at the time or the contents therein. It doesn't connect my new survivor with all the experiences, story and history that my old one. Play DayZ a bit longer and you will realize that the pain of death has very little to do with dropping a gun and a few tools on the ground. The pain comes from losing your life which is how it should be.

Losing items is not the only or even primary penalty for death. If you believe it is and therefore think recovering a few items means there's "no penalty" then I submit that you place far too much value on equipment.

Firstly, paying for a new copy of the game after every death was never mentioned by me, don't try and drag this discussions down to childish exaggerations.

Secondly, are you seriously trying to suggest that the biggest penalty connected to death is losing your zombies killed counter? and that your experiences in this game exists within a sprite and that those experiences and memories of the games played vanish when that sprite dies? Is this a troll?, It is written in such a serious tone that I simply can't tell.

[zak757 146]

I thought this thread was going to be "If you die in DayZ, you can no longer play". Thank God it wasn't.

Anyway, I'm indifferent on this honestly.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Zakatak

[wolfstriked 143]

I added this into another thread but it fits here also......what about you must survive for say 3 days and then your allowed to head further north where the real devastation of the infection has taken place.Say your crew is a bunch of boobs and still on Chenarus=you can get geared at your tent easily if you die.Problem though arises if your in the further north map and die....screwed over for 3 days until access is granted again.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I added this into another thread but it fits here also......what about you must survive for say 3 days and then your allowed to head further north where the real devastation of the infection has taken place.Say your crew is a bunch of boobs and still on Chenarus=you can get geared at your tent easily if you die.Problem though arises if your in the further north map and die....screwed over for 3 days until access is granted again.

It's one of those arbitrary rules that i tend to hate in games.

[Flam625 8]

And still no one has been able to explain what place resurrection (or something very close to it) has in a survival simulator, what is the point to a survival game if death has basically no penalty???

When you die you lose Zombie kills headshots murders, Too me thats what I love to get, High kills and what not. So when you die you lose that. The game is fair as it is and everyone who thinks it isnt must really shit because 80% of the players are thriving perfectly well.