Dogs: too early yet to implement them?

[kicktd 42]

So as we all know in 1.7.3 rocket plans on adding dogs into the game and they are suppose to be able to alert us to nearby players, hunt them down, attack infected etc. well my question to you all is this:

Is it too early to be adding something like dogs to the mod/game?

The reason as I ask is because after playing for a few days you can pretty well manage to sneak around or take out the infected with ease leaving only players as the true challenge. With the dogs being added in, now they will alert to players near by, hunt them down etc. which in MY EYES makes this game even more easier and no challenge for those with dogs.

Yes, it makes approaching someone with a dog mean a bit more planning but really it's as simple as: shoot dog, shoot player or just shoot player and ignore dog if they won't "auto attack" you. This in the end to me does not change anything with snipers as they are usually far away as it is.

I know "alpha" and I know this is the time for rocket to be adding his ideas in, but I think it's still a little early in the alpha to be adding something like this as far as game play goes, it's too "easy" as it is right now.

So what's your input on this? Let's not turn this thread into a flame war people. If it does I'll kindly ask a mod to lock this thread, as I simply want actual conversation and discussion and it be civilized instead of nothing but flames.

[wordplayuk@gmail.com 101]

I've wondered if it's too early to implament them, simarlarly I'm eagerly awaiting thier implementation. I worried that maybe having one would give away your location too easily. I dont even like to drink or eat unless I know no ones around, I've killed people that gave themselves away like that, and the while the whistle mechanic is good it's obviously not stealthy.

Overall though I think this is the time to try them and I think a mixture of new content and bug fixes it's whats needed at the moment not one or the other. We're not hitting beta till this game is "feature complete". So when else would we try?

Edited August 19, 2012 by Criminal

[datneko 4]

I personally think implementing dogs would make the game way too easy for the experienceds. Something should be done about the zombies, so zombies would be more of a challenge to balance the zombie|human scale. After something is done with the scale, dogs can be implemented.

[kicktd 42]

I personally think implementing dogs would make the game way too easy for the experienceds. Something should be done about the zombies, so zombies would be more of a challenge to balance the zombie|human scale. After something is done with the scale, dogs can be implemented.

That is my thoughts too. I'm excited about the dogs being added no doubt, but I feel it's still a bit too early in the alpha to be adding them until a decent balance with the infected is met as it stands right now like I stated in my OP anyone who plays for a couple of days/a week learn really fast how to avoid/take out the infected leaving only other players as a threat.

I crouch run through most towns or cities without worrying about the infected, only other players attacking me. I also agree with the other post about giving your position away, from what I saw on a video you can make them stay somewhere but if you take them with you and you're trying to be stealthy and it decides it wants to bark and give your position away well you're pretty much screwed. I've also used the eating/drinking sounds of other players to locate them/know when they are near by, especially when someone pops a soda.

Right now I believe adding dogs in at the current time of the game unless rocket adds some infected behavior modifications in 1.7.3 is going to be a double edged sword, it will make playing that much more easy for "veteran" players yet will have people having to rethink their approach to someone who has a dog, until of course it's figured out how to approach someone with a dog than it will be easy yet again.

I just also want to point out I play solo myself, I don't have a camp in the north but I do have a couple of tents that I keep stocked up and do supply runs when I need to and even as a solo player I've found the infected way too easy in their current state, I don't even see them as a challenge anymore like I did when I first started playing.

I just want to make clear I do want to see dogs in the game, but maybe a bit later in the alpha instead of in the current state of things, unless major tweaks are coming in the 1.7.3 update to the infected to make them an actual threat to you instead of something you just ignore and ditch using line of sight tricks.

[martin_sonderegger@bluewin.ch 141]

An alpha version exists to test features. If you don't implement said features, you can't really test them, can you?

[Night Stalker (DayZ) 9]

I could think of more important things. LOTS.

[datneko 4]

[Off-Topic] I'm not currently playing DayZ atm, cuz of reasons. I'm excited to play Dayz however I'm dreaded of all the BS currently ingame [hackers,various bugs and the typical hostile players]. Also, the fact that DayZ was intended to be a ZOMBIE survival game, but instead of players be afraid of the zombies. They afraid of players instead. That just ruin the experience imo. I know a lot of people bought this up too.

So yeah, Balance zombies|human scale, then add dogs. I will definitely play solo for the first few days when I get my hands on Dayz, a companion will help with the experience for sure, but I don't want the dog giving away my position xD.

[kicktd 42]

An alpha version exists to test features. If you don't implement said features, you can't really test them, can you?

I never said don't add them to the alpha, I stated that it's a bit early in the alpha stage to add them yet as there is a balance issue as it stands with the infected being pretty much no real threat at the moment, so dogs are really just useful when hunting animals or other players and don't add anything in my eyes in the current stage of things. Let's see the infected get a bit more balanced out before adding in things like a companion/pet, but I agree it should be added during alpha but I don't see it needing to be added in YET, just my 2 cents of course.

[martin_sonderegger@bluewin.ch 141]

I never said don't add them to the alpha, I stated that it's a bit early in the alpha stage to add them yet as there is a balance issue as it stands with the infected being pretty much no real threat at the moment, so dogs are really just useful when hunting animals or other players and don't add anything in my eyes in the current stage of things. Let's see the infected get a bit more balanced out before adding in things like a companion/pet, but I agree it should be added during alpha but I don't see it needing to be added in YET, just my 2 cents of course.

I get you point, it's just that the balancing is mostly the problem of the beta. We know that the zombies "work", the guns work and the humanity system "works", so now we get new features. If the dogs will be bugged out beyond repair, they can be removed with a new build and Rocket knows that the beta (or standalone) shouldn't add dogs, or at least change them in some way. The feature must be implemented at some point, the sooner the better, so we have more time testing them, i.e. complaining on the forums about the same thing over and over again.

[Rusty Venture 2]

Also, the fact that DayZ was intended to be a ZOMBIE survival game

Are you sure about that?

[cfnz 15]

I don't think it's too early, the sooner dogs are added the more time there is to iron out bugs related to them. I'm not convinced 'challenge' for the player is or even should be a priority at this stage.

Edited August 19, 2012 by cfnz

[kicktd 42]

I get you point, it's just that the balancing is mostly the problem of the beta. We know that the zombies "work", the guns work and the humanity system "works", so now we get new features. If the dogs will be bugged out beyond repair, they can be removed with a new build and Rocket knows that the beta (or standalone) shouldn't add dogs, or at least change them in some way. The feature must be implemented at some point, the sooner the better, so we have more time testing them, i.e. complaining on the forums about the same thing over and over again.

I see your point. I agree we need to be testing things out and reporting bugs for rocket and the dev team, especially with crunch time coming up with the alpha of the stand alone coming soonish, I was just hoping we'd get to see a little bit better "AI" for the infected before the dogs were added in just to keep game play even, although I honestly right now have no idea how dogs will work but I did see from the videos they have an option to "attack" so I'm assuming they will be used to help with the infected, we shall see when 1.7.3 comes out, and hopefully it doesn't bring servers to their knees if/when everyone is running around with a dog.

[kicktd 42]

This is what I like seeing is everyone giving their view on the subject as it sheds light on it from all angels and helps not only players to see possible other things they weren't thinking of but the dev staff also. I'm loving everyone's replies so far and I'm keeping an open mind as I read each one, I hope rocket or one of the devs will see this thread perhaps and it will inspire them with even more ideas on things they have planned for dogs or the infected etc.

Most of all thanks to everyone for keeping it a civil discussion and expressing your side/views without resorting to any flame posting. :beans: for all the posters so far.

[martin_sonderegger@bluewin.ch 141]

I see your point. I agree we need to be testing things out and reporting bugs for rocket and the dev team, especially with crunch time coming up with the alpha of the stand alone coming soonish, I was just hoping we'd get to see a little bit better "AI" for the infected before the dogs were added in just to keep game play even, although I honestly right now have no idea how dogs will work but I did see from the videos they have an option to "attack" so I'm assuming they will be used to help with the infected, we shall see when 1.7.3 comes out, and hopefully it doesn't bring servers to their knees if/when everyone is running around with a dog.

I might be mistaken, but I think the restrictions from ARMA2 don't allow for a better infected AI, since there's no "melee" combat AI for humanoids like zombies included in a military simulator. The dogs, or other things included in 1.7.3., might crash the game completely, but updates so far have been a little "delayed" anyway. The majority of non-forum readers probably use Six Launcher, many of us use Dayz Commander or something similar. So the guys who are actually here complaining all the time, i.e. the forum crowd, will be playing 1.7.3. a little before the "rest", while many servers will remain on 1.7.2.5. for the first days anyway. As soon as the first servers start to ahve major problems, the dev team can tell the Six Launcher guys to not use the update and there won't be a major impact. And if all else fails, we can make a little rollback and Rocket can remove the dogs again.

I'm normally not one to say "it's an alpha" to every problem, but new features causing problems is pretty normal in this stage of development. And since Rocket and his buddies will test 1.7.3. a little before releasing it anway, it shouldn't be taht much of a problem.

And to be honest, I think the dogs will just be broken and in need of a patch anyway on launch. Yes, I'm a pessimist. But I also think that if they are introduced now, they won't cause that big of a problerm later when other features will be added.

Most of all thanks to everyone for keeping it a civil discussion and expressing your side/views without resorting to any flame posting. :beans: for all the posters so far.

Everyone but me sucks giant elephant dicks! Better? :D

Edited August 19, 2012 by daskleineviech

[kicktd 42]

Everyone but me sucks giant elephant dicks! Better? :D

:P

Yeah I expect them to be buggy or not work at all when they are added in, didn't know that arma 2 was limiting the AI of the infected THAT much but with it going stand alone I'm expecting that to be fixed of course. I just hope we don't see a case of the dogs being added and it causing servers to crash, as it is it's hard enough to find a "stable" server although this has me wondering now just exactly how/where will dogs spawn in at and how rare will they be and if there will be a limit per server. Only time will tell.

[clever 12]

The current game is pretty damn buggy, I'd much rather prefer if they iron out a few major bugs first before adding anything in. Even if it's an alpha, that doesn't mean Rocket should just keep introducing new features without fixing known bugs first.

[martin_sonderegger@bluewin.ch 141]

:P

Yeah I expect them to be buggy or not work at all when they are added in, didn't know that arma 2 was limiting the AI of the infected THAT much but with it going stand alone I'm expecting that to be fixed of course. I just hope we don't see a case of the dogs being added and it causing servers to crash, as it is it's hard enough to find a "stable" server although this has me wondering now just exactly how/where will dogs spawn in at and how rare will they be and if there will be a limit per server. Only time will tell.

I think Rocket once said the Zs use animal AI and there's no built-in alternative in ARMA2, so I don't expect a change there until the standalone. Like I said, I'm not sure, but knowing ARMA2, I can't imagine what routines should be available for the Zs now.

The dogs are a mystery to me to, to be honest. I don't know if they are server-side or not, they will probably be handled as "squad-member", but I don't kow how the HIVE saves this kind of information. If the other changes in 1.7.3. fix out some tent and vehicle related problems, those positive changes will probably iron out the problems introduced with dogs so it's as stable as it is now. But time will tell, and maybe the dogs are the first perfect feature with no problems what so ever, which would be new for DayZ and probably any kind of software in alpha state. :D

[Two in the Bush 3]

I would rather have rocket fix serious bugs and perfect whats already in the game before moving game changing stuff like this.

[DarkRaven123 602]

I get that this is the time to test features, but what about other things?

Like the car whoring.

Why not increase the amount of vehicles by 200%, while making gas only available at 2 or so places?

Dogs just seem like a silly gimmick addition at this point in game.

[martin_sonderegger@bluewin.ch 141]

I get that this is the time to test features, but what about other things?

Like the car whoring.

Why not increase the amount of vehicles by 200%, while making gas only available at 2 or so places?

Dogs just seem like a silly gimmick addition at this point in game.

You can't do much about car hoarding. If there's two times the amount of vehicles the clans will hoard those too. The only solution would be to reset the location back to the spawn points at a certain time, and even then most people will just get them back. That's just a thing that has to be monitored by admins, if they're not doing it themselves.

[JESUSARIUS REX (DayZ) 163]

I think, in the standalone version, that in cities there should be big hordes, and depending on the size of the city, the bigger the horde. I personally think zombies are

easy as hell 70% of time, only time they are annoying is when the respawn or a mob is chasing you through a field. Adding hordes, more like left 4 dead hordes would be better. Imagine being in city, shooting and all the zombies slowly walk towards you. Then when the get close enough, they run at you aggroed.

[cyanyde 165]

I'm curious about what is going on with the dogs.. they sound very interesting, but I feel like there are a billion other non-engine related issues to deal with first, before we deal with "companionship".

That said, I haven't read any other replies in this thread. I just wanted to post my opinion with an un-biased view.

Now I'll read the replies to the OP, that is, as long as it doesn't turn into another pissing contest held by socially repressed little twats.

;)

Edit: oh cool, I'm in the minority for once!

Edited August 19, 2012 by Cyanyde

[nicebasi 37]

We should all be happy that we can be here in that early Alpha and testing it free,open and with all youre Friends!

So take it as it comes " Yes cool we can test Dogs nice"

Think about other Games you like and want to play.But all you can do is wait Month over Month and watching Youtube Trailer and Screenshots ;)

http://www.tape.tv/musikvideos/Bobby-McFerrin/Dont-Worry-Be-Happy

[magicool 115]

YES

They should focus on the hacker issue and all the bugs!

[ZekkCC (DayZ) 51]

Woof woof bro. woof woof.