Day Z should be a constant battle for the resources you need, not a constant battle for something to do.

[Silent331 25]

Day Z is a zombie survival game, so why doesn't it feel like one? I am not going to get in to the duping of ammunition or anything like that that can give an unfair advantage. I am going to ignore all hacks and exploits and assume people play fair for the purposes of improving the game.

As of right now the games progresses in a manner of find food water supplies and guns, find better guns, find the best guns, go player hunting. The game only has one true objective, survive, but right now it should be more accurately stated as "don't get killed by other players". And why do other players kill you? Because they can, that's all it comes down to. This game only has one true objective, survive, now lets make the game revolve around true survival.

I am proposing that the spawn chances of food and water should be significantly reduced. Right now going into a city is like walking into a city that had a major bomb threat and had to be evacuated, and the dinner on the table is still warm. Not once while playing Day Z did I think that it did not have what i needed to survive. This is a zombie survival game, entire cities are turned into zombies, this all dident happen in a flash, it would take at least a week to infect so many people, and have the rest of the inhabitants either evacuated or killed. People would clear out their own homes, looters would have been in every room, the place would be filled with the things people found not worth their weight. Food would be hard to find as next to all of it was loaded up by either the inhabitants or the army and taken elsewhere, much of it consumed as well. Water would be shut off and sodas provide calories, those would all be taken too.

Right now I think that it is a bit ridiculous how common food and drink are. Assuming you are the first person to spawn items, walking into a school house you have a 80% chance of finding at least one drink, and a 40% chance of finding at least 1 can of food. These are far too high, if you wish to keep the trend of drink being more common than food than that is fine. The chances for food and drink in the school house should be around 15-25%. Another thing is how common meat is in the game, a cow should not be something that you find on your trip between cities every day, it should be god sent. It provides 8 steaks which makes sense, its supposed to feed alot of people, but a single person will barely go though 1/4th of a cow before it goes bad and you cant eat it. The meat should go bad after around 4 hours in game, too short to eat the entire cow, but give you ample time to find other food sources. This would also make it easier on players who are teaming up as a cow kill can feed a small squad for their days explorations. In addition to the meat rotting, cows should be much more rare than they are now, I go into some farm areas and count as many as 6 of them, I should be lucky to find even one.

I think once food and drink become rare enough, it will actually make the game once again about survival and less about how many murders you can get before you get taken out. Players would go into towns looking for food mainly, anything else they find would be a bonus, Bandits would not just be mass murders, but simply players trying to survive that would rather look where food is most common, on players. Routine trips to the NW airfield would be very costly as most players wouldn't have enough food to make it there and back, a trip like that would be a luxury for someone who made a big score. Not to say it wouldn't still be dangerous, players with military grade weapons would be staked out because they know that's where you want to be and they know you have the food they need.

Day Z should be a constant battle for the resources you need, not a constant battle for something to do.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Silent331

[mercuss 4]

I agree. DayZ in it's current state is not a zombie survival game. The only threat is other players. Players should be a threat of course, but so should the zombies, the elements and your own body. I agree with you that food is incredibly easy to come by, but I think the biggest problem is that the zombies are not a threat. Ideally even with the current amount of food/drink/supplies in the game, it should be difficult and dangerous to go into and out of a zombie infested city. But right now all you have to do is sprint in, go into a building and loot it and sprint out the back door. You will lose most of the zombies chasing you, but even if you don't there is no possible way for them to catch you.

There needs to be an endurance system so you can get tired from sprinting. If you screw up sneaking into a town and have a horde of zombies pouring down on you, you wouldnt be able to run for ever. You might be able to run for a bit and then HAVE to fight your way out instead of just sprinting untill you are in the clear.

You are right about the overabundance of food and drink. Not once have I ever been in a situation where I am starving to death. So I have never needed to kill another player for his food, which really is what banditry should be all about: killing for supplies to survive. Right now I can sprint through town, grab all the food and drink I need, get a decent weapon and I am set. At this point killing is simply because there isn't much else to do, im not preoccupied simply trying to survive.

I believe that the difficulty should not just be due to other players, but due to trying to find the necessary supplies to stay alive. Bandits would be that much more dangerous and actually have a purpose in what they are doing. And hopefully more people would work together to survive.

[tatsuri 7]

Two people who have no insight to human nature ^

[Ipurgepeople 106]

I would agree on the not being able to run forever thing, but only if you have SOME manner of defending yourself when you spawn.

Give you a stick, like a wooden stick. that has like....12 uses and takes 4 hits to kill a zombie, that would give you 3 possible zombie kills. after 12 uses, it's gone.

Because as things stand now... if you LOOK at a zombie they will aggro you from 400 meters away without any hesitation while the one 20 feet to your left just grunts and hops around happily. Not being able to outrun stupid crap like that, or them hearing your breathing through a wall (happened to me at NEAF) while being perfectly still while waiting for it to pass so you can get into that building with the possibility of finding MAYBE a double barrel or POSSIBLY a Makarov if you're lucky? Sigh...

While I agree the survival aspect needs tuning, and would love to see some sort of endurance system brought in that's more than what currently in the game (the longer you run the longer it takes to get your breath back, and you do slow down a little after running for a while) unless there's a way to protect yourself, i'd have to disagree at its addition.

--> On the topic of sticks. I think you should be able to "loot" a bush, or maybe one of those small evergreen trees would be better, for a stick that has a small number of uses but is *SOME* way to defend yourself. Perhaps even just one zombie kill with it. Crack a skull with it and it breaks too.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Ipurgepeople

[Thaylor 0]

Yeah i agree, i say half the food and animal spawns but maybe triple the amount of time it takes to starve and make cans and meat only fill half the bar (you can go 4-6 weeks with out any food) Also maybe start the game on half hunger. Atm there is so much food when i find it i just eat it cos i got to much :P

And if animal spawns were more rare and maybe took 7 days to re-spawn on a server, People would trade food for ammo etc and make hunting party's

I vote yes to a harder Dayz

Edited August 18, 2012 by Thaylor

[Cpt.Vilja 15]

I am alive for 5 days now+, got a Dragunov with 2 mags and a FN FAL with 2 Mags...also i dont have that much room in my backpack for food (Always 2 Beans 2 Sodas)

And what can i say..its the best thing which happend to me. I mean you have to be SOOO carefull because you know : You aint find ammo for these Weapons that easy.

And you have always to find food and water. Before that live i had a M4 and a DMR with a shit tons of ammo..and it didnt feel right.. it was to easy..

1+ = Reduce Ammo,food,water

[Jepix 20]

Now when i spawn, i rush to get a hatchet, rush in cherno or elektro or balota airfield to get a military gun, go further in the city and shoot people. Why? Cuz there is literally NOTHING else to do :\ helping someone isn't rewarding enough, perk points should be added like a skill system perhaps? idk just make it more rewarding so people actualy help others

[Dartendal 19]

Rocket isn't interested in a skill tree. I don't know about skills in general. If they were worked right, and carefully, skills of a sort could be implemented and possibly keep the feel of the game. But that would take a lot of time and effort that Rocket may not be willing to put into it, since he's not interested in making this like an MMO, in that sense. Plans for making it more rewarding to group up with people are already in the works, by means of making teamwork oriented content.

Agreed, guns(Maybe) ammunition, food, and water should definitely be more of a rarity. But, you don't want to get too crazy on lower food/water, because then it might be too difficult to live without having to steal from other players.

[3rdparty 229]

Rocket isn't interested in a skill tree. I don't know about skills in general. If they were worked right, and carefully, skills of a sort could be implemented and possibly keep the feel of the game. But that would take a lot of time and effort that Rocket may not be willing to put into it, since he's not interested in making this like an MMO, in that sense. Plans for making it more rewarding to group up with people are already in the works, by means of making teamwork oriented content.

Agreed, guns(Maybe) ammunition, food, and water should definitely be more of a rarity. But, you don't want to get too crazy on lower food/water, because then it might be too difficult to live without having to steal from other players.

Not really when ye think about it, the OP was just on about food and water spawns in cities and towns, its still possible to get your food from animals, and water from pumps and reservoirs.

+1 OP XD

ye may also be interested in this thread http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/20112-the-only-realistic-way-to-prevent-deathmatching-make-dayz-a-living-hell/, which links into the ideas your suggesting. Tis a huge read now but i always like to see it get bumped once in a while XD

[bazbake 456]

If you could only carry what's on your back, you'd have to make hard choices between food, ammo, and healing supplies. That would raise the tension and difficulty significantly. It would also make death's stakes a lot higher. Currently you can horde food until you need it. If you could only carry a limited amount of food at all times, then you would constantly be searching for food instead of stashing 20 cans of beans in your tent for later.

It all comes down to two different survival tactics. External storage is like agriculture/farming. Removing it returns players back to a subsistence hunter and gatherer state, which is a completely different challenge level and a completely different level of engagement.

[Paraplegic 9]

Make your own shit to do. Start a cult of Chernogorsk and worship the infection, sacrificing newspawns by breaking their legs and shooting an enfield.

[Ipurgepeople 106]

Paraplegic....saying to break someone's legs? Brilliant, mate. +1

Out of curiosity, those of you who complain about things being too easy, I'd like to ask, do you run solo or in a squad?

With just two people, it was extremely easy with coyote backpack + alice pack - he had med supplies out the ass, and I carried 10 steaks.

However, a couple days ago, I found an MP5SD6 and an M16A4 ACOG, so having a gun in my bag limits my space a bit. Last night my buddy found our first Sniper, so now we're limited on space (We were lucky enough to have found a ton of DMR ammo right about the same time as the rifle) - so now he's got a rifle, 5 blood packs, 3 morphines and 2 epi-pens in his bag, whereas I have ammo and a couple things of water/food in mine. It works out fine for us.

If I was solo, with a second primary in my bag, it would be pretty difficult to keep any amount of ammo and still be able to carry all the necessary supplies (medical, food, drink, etc) without having to constantly return to a hospital or a grocery store on a daily basis.

However, as it is, I have 8 clips for my M16 (Only because my buddy dropped his own M16 for the sniper) and 3 for my MP5 because I ended up using all my own morphine from glitching out of deer stands... It took us a good 5 hours to come from having no ammo to speak of to having some ammo - between the NWAF, Cherno, Balota and Deer Stands - 5 hours of constant searching, hauling ass through cherno to find heatpacks whilst being chased by 30 zombies we didn't have the ammo to kill, etc. When you have no supplies, it can get pretty brutal. If you're that worried about it, just go to Zelenogorsk or something and just start lighting up the zombies. Take out the whole town. After an hour or so of that, you won't have too much in the way of supplies if you piss off enough zeds. :)

[bazbake 456]

@Ipurgepeople

You're playing the way most people would play if we didn't have tents and vehicle storage -- limited supplies, making hard choices, teaming up for division of labor and equipment.

But most people don't play that way. Most people have tents full of extra equipment. They don't make difficult choices between carrying the gun or the blood pack. And when they die, all of that extra loot they never had to abandon and just hid away is waiting for them at the end of a fifteen minute run.

So while you are experiencing stress and danger all of the time, most of the server isn't playing like you. They're sitting on mountains of easily-acquirable food and drink because they never once had to make a hard decision between a gun or a can of beans.

[ravenger 10]

I dont have vehicles and tents hoarded away stacked with everything in the game I usually just have and alice pack stacked with everything and a primary and secondary usually a lee enfield and a m1911. I have got the l85 tws and the as50 before but Why waste my time when I can 1 shot everyone with such a common weapon like a lee enfield. I hit cherno elektro a few barns and Im set and what else is there to do? shoot people and i just do that until i die.

[Alpha331 7]

It's true, half the people I've met have killed me, BUT the other half have been more than willing to share supplies with me because they realised that me alive would be more useful to me than risking aggroing ever zombie near us in a firefight that would leave one of us dead and the other in no state to survive. IMO reducing food would actually increase teamwork, rather than legitimise banditry, looting a zombie infested city would be much easier with a few mates covering you with their snipers aimed at ZOMBIES rather than players, which I thought was their main use for them, reducing food spawns and general equipment in the game as well as scarier zombies would make the game much better, because it makes teamwork necessary, not optional.

In a real zombie apocalypse I'm pretty sure most of us here would get cut down within the first week if we tried soloing ;)

[Silent331 25]

@alpha331

I would first like to note we have the same number :P But in all seriousness, you say it wouldn't legitimize banditry while I say it would. If food and water were so rare that you need to get it any way possible, Food and water are in 2 locations, in items spawns, and in players inventories, and when you are dieing of hunger and you cant find food at loot spawns, well you dont have much of a choice now do you.

@paraplegic

Brilliant.

@ipurgepeople

I play by myself most of the time and I never run into any storage issues, I dont even use tents. I usually have an M4 of some kind, a makarov, alice pack. I carry 2 bandages on my person and 6 makarov mags, filling my secondary ammo area. Then I carry at most 5 clips of main weapon ammunition (the main weapon is only used in PVP, you dont need 10 clips to stay protected,). That leaves me with 7 slots on my person for whatever, usually this contains 2 food, 2 water bottles 2 morphine and a grenade if i can find one. Thats all my essencialls and that doesent use my pack at all. Most people use a sniper rifle of some kind for long range engagements, I replace this with binos and patience. So now I have an alice pack, 20 slots of nothing I really need to use it for. In my pack I either carry 5 blood bags, 2 epi pens, 3 morphine, 5 bandages, any antibiotocs, not for survival because i will never need that for myself, just to have because i have slots to fill. in the last 5 slots i carry extra food and water, again because i have space to fill. If I have a second main weapon I will carry that and 5 mags, giving me 5 spaces of agian, nothing i really need. Usually I will fill this with a blood bag, morphine, a bandage, an epipen, and one food, because i can. I have done the 2 weapon sniper+rifle life style, and as much as its not how I like to play the game, I could heal up just fine from sub 5000 HP simply by killing a herd of cows that i find on a regular basis, water is abundant when you have a map. Its never a fight for survival.

[Ipurgepeople 106]

What servers do you play on that you find these mythical "herds" of cows? I run into goats fairly often in fields, but a cow is a rare sight for me, lol.

Nah, you don't need 10 mags to take on players, I guess, but that's not what I use it for.

I prefer the feeling of taking out zombies with a rifle than my pistol. Plus, aggroing the whole town is where the fun starts! Going through 2-3 clips taking on every zed in the NWAF, or the entire city of Gorka is just fun for me. Step into a building (so they can't sneak up behind you) and lead the lead fly. If I get a massive surplus of ammo, I'll just do something like this, camping in a spot for a while just slaughtering zombies. I just started doing this recently, though, because until recently, I hadn't had a ton of ammo for any military-grade gun.

My first military rifle was an M16 and I had 3 clips when I was gunned down from behind while eating a can of hotdogs.

My second military rifle was an AKM that I had 1 mag for - and for some reason couldn't find any more - which i dropped for an AK-74 which I ended up acquiring 5 mags for and then decided to go to elektro and got murdered.

Then this life I found an AKM, got up to 14 mags before I decided to go to prigo and just annihilate every zombie I could aggro. later I found an M16 ACOG and I had 3 clips for that until my buddy dropped his gun to which he had 8 mags because we were having rotten luck finding G17 ammo (his secondary). I just filled my slots.

Every other life I usually die early on, with a 1866 or Dinner Bell.

But, being an old Doom and Resident Evil player, I hoard ammo like it is nobody's business.

As per your comment on tents, I've found one tent. And then as soon as I found it, the server I was on crashed, I lost my primary for some reason, and the tent had duped, getting rid of all my ammo as well. So, upon finding a gun, I dropped the tents for some ammo and food since at the time, my 12 slot bag was full of medical supplies since I was the one holding them at the time. From what i've heard/read, tents are unreliable at best, more likely broken, so why should I bother with them? Not only that, but they would require me to pick one server and make it my home, whereas my buddy and I are more nomadic considering the wide range of timeslots we play the game during. anywhere from 4pm to 4am means that many servers would be changing from day to night during a 12 hour period. As it is, we have 3 "main" servers we frequent, when they're working.

So, while you may be right, that my squad is in the minority, perhaps you should look into it if you're that bored? Forsake the tents. force yourself into making some difficult decisions. My buddy and I are constantly thnking of new ways to test the limits to our survivability. If you can't self-motivate, then you probably will be struck with boredom.

Try making it more challenging. Perhaps as I did - Try to survive without ever going into any place that is better than low-quality spawn. Stay away from deer stands, stores, hospitals, and no killing animals. Makes it a bit more challenging. Perhaps I'm just strange, as I'm one of those people who would jump into a game with the thought of doing it the hard way, such as only using items to beat a final fantasy game, or playing through halo with only the guns I start with.

[El Barto 227 25]

OP, i agree 100%. beanz.

[Cpt.Vilja 15]

Rocket isn't interested in a skill tree. I don't know about skills in general. If they were worked right, and carefully, skills of a sort could be implemented and possibly keep the feel of the game. But that would take a lot of time and effort that Rocket may not be willing to put into it, since he's not interested in making this like an MMO, in that sense. Plans for making it more rewarding to group up with people are already in the works, by means of making teamwork oriented content.

Agreed, guns(Maybe) ammunition, food, and water should definitely be more of a rarity. But, you don't want to get too crazy on lower food/water, because then it might be too difficult to live without having to steal from other players.

Better getting killed for food and not for fun ^^

[Alpha331 7]

@silent331, fair point, but I was getting at the fact that, if you kill a survivor in these hypothetical food shortages, you may gain 1 or two pieces of edible loot, however if you team up with them, you can then loot more effectively and gain 3 or four pieces of food (among other items) each.

But then again, the psych of most players in this gain is "shoot first..." and "oh look a piece of candy", they, IMO don't really give any thought to the fact that they're really fucking up someone's game, so this may not working out the way I predict and more the way you predicted.... this game really depresses me sometimes.

[rocu 24]

Great suggestion. The struggle for food and water should definitely be more prioritized. Also it would make more sense if drinking and eating restores only half or even less of your thirst and hunger bar.

You have my beans, kind sir.

[brent2 11]

Bumped for agreement. I also think that ammo. and especially guns, should be significantly more rare, too. Maybe cut the spawn rates by 50% and 90%, respectively. I want finding a Makarov to be a noteworthy event, rather than, "ugh, just another Makarov...".

[hoik 415]

@alpha331

But in all seriousness, you say it wouldn't legitimize banditry while I say it would.

Isn't the idea to legitamise banditry? If people kill other for a legitamate reson (thats within the context of DayZ - eg they are dying of thirst/hunger) there is nothing wrong with it - intigrate banditry into the game as much as possible - because you will never get rid of it. (P.S - I do not "bandit")

Edit: Appologies, i didn't take any notice of the date! - Though I dont see whats the issue??

Edited November 26, 2012 by Hoik

[Inception. 9443]

Isn't the idea to legitamise banditry? If people kill other for a legitamate reson (thats within the context of DayZ - eg they are dying of thirst/hunger) there is nothing wrong with it - intigrate banditry into the game as much as possible - because you will never get rid of it. (P.S - I do not "bandit")

Replying to month old posts is pointless, please don't do that.

[KetchupOnTheDog 41]

I keep thinking of the movie the road where theres no food and no one is friendly but your friends. Maybe theres no zombies in that movie but i still think food should be rare due to zombies and other survivors hogging all of it. It just makes sense really, and would actually be more fun killing someone to sustain yourself rather than killing someone just for that m4 he has or even simply just for your own enjoyment..

Edited November 27, 2012 by KetchupOnTheDog