DayZ has become Deathmatch / Team Deathmatch

[underscore 12]

Delays to logging in to servers after death won't alter the perceived value of other players lives' date=' only your own. Therefore you will be even more likely to shoot on sight to avoid lengthy waits.

[/quote']

That is a valid observation. Under the-lower-humanity-the-longer-you-wait system, however, you have the option not to murder. No murders means no wait. Now other players' lives have value.

Edit:

I don't think anyone can know for sure which alterations will work and which won't' date=' the important thing is for everyone here to be willing to try them out whilst also having a clear understanding of the initial hypothesis or goal of that change.

[/quote']

Couldn't agree more. it's quite possible, for instance, that any and all the ideas in this thread are complete shit. But, like you, I;m willing to try different things and see how the dynamic of the game changes. If the collective decides that certain mechanics suck, then we should scrap them without mercy. But, yes, let's experiment.

[CosmicOsmo 1]

Once' date=' there was an one-life event hosted, where if you died, you would get kicked off for the remainder of the event. Nobody wanted to come close to the enemy, tension, checking corners etc. Best time of that game, and i didnt fire many shots if any, beofre my internet timeouted and i was kicked off.

[/quote']

yes! That is exactly what Day Z needs. 1 life mode. If you die, you get kicked back to the respawn-enabled servers until the 1-life servers are reset for a fresh apocalypse.

[oktyabr 53]

I can't believe people actually think some sort of many hour re-spawn timer would be beneficial. Apply that to any other game you play and ask your self if it would work. BF3? CoD? EVE? WoW? No one would play it' date=' except for those that found a way to exploit it (sooner or later someone would).

[/quote']

Those are games for retarded kids, except EvE. Aimed at masses of morons and sheep. But BF3 and COD have 15 sec spawn or so on HC mode. Dayz has none.

Project Reality has 20 sec -5 min, depending on deaths and penalties. And even that isnt enough in my eyes. Despite it being a realism game, people tardrush, and generally fail to comprehend what the game is about, and ultimately paly it like COD. Once, there was an one-life event hosted, where if you died, you would get kicked off for the remainder of the event.

Nobody wanted to come close to the enemy, tension, checking corners etc. Best time of that game, and i didnt fire many shots if any, beofre my internet timeouted and i was kicked off.

Seconds are a lot different from 12-18 hours like some are suggesting.

DayZ isn't a "one life until end of mission" sort of game like CS, it's a constant respawn like all the rest. A minute or two even isn't a bad thing, gives me a chance to pee or go have a smoke. Half a day or more respawn punishment, for a game with an average player life expectancy of less than 30 minutes? Insane.

[Oddball_E8 1]

This game is becoming PvP-only because for some batshit insane reason Rocket decided to listen to the whiners about zombies instead of ignoring them completely. Now we have counts in the 600s for 255km^2 territory. There isn't any PvE for random players to group up against' date=' because for some reason, Rocket decided to listen to people who wanted to get rid of zombies [i']in a zombie game. Grouping is only useful for PvP because anyone can sneak through a town and get anything they need, but without PvE to encourage grouping, only communities from other games will be grouped up.

Zombie counts need to be at least doubled to 1200+, with respawn delays at ~20 minutes.

You DO know that zombies only spawn if players are nearby right?

So "upping" the count to 1200 instead of 600 "for 225km^2" wont make a lick of difference... Right now its about 10-20 zombies per player when you look at the servers (50 players and about 700-800 zombies usually when i play, and you have to take into account that not all players are somewhere where zombies spawn).

You could increase the number of zeds to 5000 and it wouldnt make a difference. They still wouldnt spawn for someone hiding on the top of a hill trying to snipe other players.

[oktyabr 53]

This game is becoming PvP-only because for some batshit insane reason Rocket decided to listen to the whiners about zombies instead of ignoring them completely. Now we have counts in the 600s for 255km^2 territory. There isn't any PvE for random players to group up against' date=' because for some reason, Rocket decided to listen to people who wanted to get rid of zombies [i']in a zombie game. Grouping is only useful for PvP because anyone can sneak through a town and get anything they need, but without PvE to encourage grouping, only communities from other games will be grouped up.

Zombie counts need to be at least doubled to 1200+, with respawn delays at ~20 minutes.

You DO know that zombies only spawn if players are nearby right?

So "upping" the count to 1200 instead of 600 "for 225km^2" wont make a lick of difference... Right now its about 10-20 zombies per player when you look at the servers (50 players and about 700-800 zombies usually when i play, and you have to take into account that not all players are somewhere where zombies spawn).

You could increase the number of zeds to 5000 and it wouldnt make a difference. They still wouldnt spawn for someone hiding on the top of a hill trying to snipe other players.

Simple. Spawn half the zombies off the map and let them wander inland towards the coast. 1000 in and around the zoos... errr... towns, bases and deerstands... and another 1000 trying to get to those places IN THE WOODS where they should be.

[scarecrow119 1]

Okay I think there’s a few issues that need to be addressed.

There are clearly some divided opinions here.

As I believe there are probably some players that are in fact playing the game like CoD I don’t believe that is the problem. The mod in that regard doesn’t have anything to worry about because simply. CoD players will get bored quickly of the game. But I think maybe having a short respawn time will help with rampant killing at the start. 10 mins maybe?.

Electro and Cherno are just plain flat no go areas. The simple fact of the matter is the meta game has got to the point where its killed or be killed.

I’ll be the first to admit that with the bandit system. It was a little too easy. People didn’t shoot because they didn’t want a target on their back. Now everyone has a target. Its much easier to shoot than not shoot.

In my opinion the balance has shifted to the other side of the bar. Before it was better not to shoot a little too much, now its a lot better to shoot at another player.

As reference to my last post. I stopped going to Cherno and Electro early on. Bypassed them utterly because I knew how it was. But even away from them the meta game and the underlying reasons why people shoot/don’t shoot are the same.

I don’t believe punishing people to shoot first at players should be punished. The balance bar needs to be brought back. Each side of the coin should have its pro’s and cons.

I think the virus system is a good idea to start out from, One or two kills wont make a huge difference but it means shooting first without thinking isn’t the way to go. It also makes a good point if you want to be a rampant killer then your gonna have to put the effort in.

So in summery. This is just my opinion.

Virus system linked to humanity level. The less your humanity level the more the virus takes effect, you need to take medicine in order to keep going. If you’re a hardcore killer then you’ll be swallowing them like skittles. That means you need to keep finding them and keep putting yourself in risk in order to do so.

Some more zombies.

Short respawn time (5-10 mins)

[underscore 12]

I can't believe people actually think some sort of many hour re-spawn timer would be beneficial. Apply that to any other game you play and ask your self if it would work. BF3? CoD? EVE? WoW? No one would play it' date=' except for those that found a way to exploit it (sooner or later someone would).

[/quote']

But, I thought we agreed that "this isn't fucking WoW" or BF3 or whatnot? Nevertheless, I concede that the idea is in all probability too far out there, and any exploits will just lead to a level of shit the likes of which have yet to be seen. Plus, a lot of guys do bring up the valid point that it's really not cool when game systems pass moral judgements upon players from up high.

In the end, I do like your idea best, Oktyabr. It's simple and therefore the most robust. But, this leads me to ask whether the Humanity System should be scrapped altogether?

Nym' pid='80403' dateline='1338219821']

Cities should not be breachable without having to group up and mow some Zeds down. Raising the Zombie count in cities to a vary large number forces players to be more friendly because you gain a common interest. Staying alive. Currently 1 person can raid an entire city slip in unnoticed and back out unnoticed pretty quickly and easily. Up the Zombie count in major cities and you will start to see players band together just to try and make attempts at entering the city.

Yes. Could be a solution to all our problems.

[davidcastle 19]

unless they make zombies harder to fight, i find challenge in the pvp, not scavenging at pre-decided spawn points for some beans.

[Shazbot!! :D 0]

Leave Cherno/Elektro.

It's not even close to deathmatch outside of that

Actually I've been killed in many random areas including the woods, at my damn spawn point, and most recently me and some friends went into a store when some bandits server hopped in and shot my team-mates in the face. I got lucky and was only unconscious so i managed to get up and kill the bandits while they were occupied killing my team-mates.

the PvP is excessive in DayZ mainly because there's no repercussions.

[underscore 12]

I giggle at people who complain about how DayZ "has turned into DM" and that "bandits should be punished" it's part of the core gameplay.

If you can't handle that go find another game' date=' because you're playing the wrong one.

[/quote']

It's PART of the core gameplay? PART of it? Dude, it IS the gameplay. That's all there is to it now: TDM on a huge map.

Don't worry we can handle it. In fact, we've been playing this game for many years now. It's called... wait for it... ARMA. Wow. Whudda thunk it? The original design intent was for this to be a roleplaying game with multiple possibilities and interactions between surviovrs, bandits and various groups. We're brainstorming about how things can be put back onto the original track.

Don't worry, in the end we WILL get the game we deserve. Maybe not the one we truly want or had hoped for, but we, as a collective, will get exactly what we deserve.

[Oddball_E8 1]

Leave Cherno/Elektro.

It's not even close to deathmatch outside of that

Actually I've been killed in many random areas including the woods' date=' at my damn spawn point, and most recently me and some friends went into a store when some bandits server hopped in and shot my team-mates in the face. I got lucky and was only unconscious so i managed to get up and kill the bandits while they were occupied killing my team-mates.

[b']the PvP is excessive in DayZ mainly because there's no repercussions.

Just like there would be no real repercussions to killing someone in a post apocalyptic zombie infestation (well, except alerting zombies, but thats already in the game).

As for those bandits that "server hopped" in and shot your friends, i doubt they "server hopped" into that store knowing you were there. They most likely just logged out in that store and when they spawned you guys were right infront of them. Id shoot first if that was the case too...

[bovine3dom 0]

[...]

A minute or two even isn't a bad thing' date=' gives me a chance to pee or go have a smoke. Half a day or more respawn punishment, for a game with an average player life expectancy of less than 30 minutes? Insane.

[/quote']

Bingo! I couldn't have put it better myself - that's exactly why a respawn time of a few minutes is far too short. The respawn time needs to put a stop to your planned DayZ session, to punish you for making that stupid mistake that got you killed.

If a long respawn timer, ~8 hours (I changed my mind about 12 hours: - 8 hours would let you play in the morning / evening after at a weekend, after curiousepic pointed it out), was implemented I would be willing to bet £10 of my real money that the average life expectancy would increase massively, to something more like 4 hours.

[CosmicOsmo 1]

the PvP is excessive in DayZ mainly because there's no repercussions.

For the love of god' date=' [b']this is a PvP game, I can't see how anyone would see it differently. Avoiding zombies and collecting beans is not a game, it's grocery shopping. The zombies, the loot, the weather, it all exists only to give a context and drive meetings between groups of players, and those players trying to kill each other is the expected outcome.

There is some merit to reducing the amount of un-ArmA-like PvP (ie. makarov kamikaze deathmatch) in favor of ArmA-like PvP (in which you value your own life), but anyone who claims there is "too much" PvP just doesn't fucking get it.

[Outlaw (DayZ) 1]

Limiting PvP in a PvP game sounds like a strange idea to me.

[ArrThePirate 13]

Exactly, the 'You are playing it wrong, hurr' argument is stupid. Some people are just griefing and trolling. What is the point of playing for days, gathering stuff, only for an asshole to kill you after you've helped him?

And yes, some people would get away with killing in a 'real' zombie apocalypse but, for how long? Would they be able to lie and kill absolutely all the survivors in the planet? That's not an easy thing to accomplish without repercussions, without people knowing that you are a killer. With a distintion between Survivors and Bandits, I would think of Dayz like The Lord of the Flies.

[Redrick (DayZ) 72]

I like Oktybar (Im too lazy to look at your name) 's idea. The way he mentioned the tension from getting kicked if you died once sounds awesome. OBVIOUSLY, however, it shouldn't be that drastic. I don't really know what kind of time frame it should be, but yes, something needs to be done.

[BanditoTheBandit 23]

Go cry somewhere else

[Talskar 0]

Go cry somewhere else

Hope we all agree that an experiment requires experimentation and that claiming that, "DayZ is perfect the way it is, bugger off if you don't like it", is counter to the goal of an alpha test.

[musicrab 5]

I've always hated multiplayer games (crap internet connection - time it takes to get playing; and perhaps I'm an antisocial git) so tried this solo. I've been alive a few days (200+ kills) and am wondering if the "stay alive" aim is starting to wear a bit thin; ok there was a panic when I lost blood and couldn't find wood (the hatchet saved me) but what do I do next?

I'm playing in the NW (nice small towns with supermarkets) and am plucking up courage to go to the airstrip (approach from the N) but to do what? Just to say I've been there? I suspect I'll stop playing (the Alpha) when I eventually die. Guess that could be tonight... or next week. Guess that's why its FUN.

[Arnoldio 2]

Seconds are a lot different from 12-18 hours like some are suggesting.

DayZ isn't a "one life until end of mission" sort of game like CS' date=' it's a constant respawn like all the rest. A minute or two even isn't a bad thing, gives me a chance to pee or go have a smoke. Half a day or more respawn punishment, for a game with an average player life expectancy of less than 30 minutes? Insane.

[/quote']

Everybody would be afraid for his life. If you look from your own standpoint, it looks like "Oh shit, if i die, im screwed, and everybody is out to get me, because they are afraid too..."

But every player, more or less, has this feeling, wich means that everybody will be staying away from others, until some form a group and then snowball effect takes place, like it did now with bandits.

With the removal of global chat though, it will be very hard, so more stuff needs to get implemented, like droppable notes or something, to message players the old school way, by foot or leaving the note somewhere.

[scarecrow119 1]

I wasnt aware it was a PvP game. Sure Arma 2 is pvp. This is a freaking mod. It Changes the game to something different.

This is a survivor game!

If you get bored of surviving then that's down to lack of content at this stage.

You against the odds (this includes zed, starvation, dehydration and Yes even other players)

But when people will shoot you because they don't want shot themselves it takes away from the original point of the game, the experience and the whole point Rocket started making the mod.

[WeaponTheyFear7 10]

I have to agree with underscore's vivisection in post #84. Ynefel's representation of his position in his post (and the views of many other PvP-centric players) is essentially' date=' "you should get away from the coast, that stuff only happens in Cherno and Elektro." But, of course, Ynefel's post demonstrates that the incentive to simply kill and loot is much higher in the North. And he in fact states that is exactly what he does. This is not accusatory, it is simply what the game currently encourages. Ynefel is acting rationally given the game's architecture.

Someone else posted that, if this were real, we would have a tremendous incentive to team up. What if that person coming over the hill is a doctor? I'm a Cold War kid who has spent a LOT of time reading post-apoc novels. Do you know how incredibly valuable a doctor would be? Even a veterinarian or a nurse? How about a mechanic, or farmer who knew how to raise food? A woman, if you're a man (or vice versa)? Someone to watch while you slept? Point is, if realism is the goal, people should be VALUABLE.

In a zombie apocalypse, the zombies would be the enemy. If the game wants to create this scenario as realistically as possible, there should be some significant incentives for cooperation and some significant disincentives for killing and looting.

As to what those incentives should be, I am not quite sure. Obviously, the bandit skin was one attempt. I personally liked that approach. I think some positive incentives for co-operation would be good as well.

The way it is now, a rational person would simply head up from the coast a little ways, park themselves near to some spot people will likely stop at (say, a watering hole), then pop people in the head when they refill their canteens. I could do that easily. I could survive forever, and get lots of neat stuff. Is that a game that has staying power?

[/quote']

^THIS, so much!

Everyone wants to shoot down the idea of classes but that is exactly what this game needs. I just want realistic classes along the lines of "ex-professions" before the apocalypse.

[bovine3dom 0]

[...] Arma 2 is pvp.[...]

Actually, it's overwhelmingly PVE. There are very few PVP clans or servers.

[Virfortis 111]

I don't see why we can't kick players out of a server when they die. It would simulate losing the player completely because the servers fill up very quickly.

[Wüstenfuchs (DayZ) 105]

I can confirm our worst fears have come true. dayZ is now nothing more than just a deathmatch. The player base is way too retarded to enable any kind of meaningful cooperation. The current ratio for me meeting strangers is 2 good guys for every 8 bandits (those who shoot on sight). With such odds, it no longer makes sense to try to even co-operate with anyone. 80% chance of getting killed while doing it is just too big risk.

Even getting a revenge to the bandits is useless, as most people seem to just disconnect whenever they see a real danger of getting killed.