Thermal, Night Vision and Flashlights.

[Psychobob 155]

have you tried turning your gamma and hdr quality all the way up?? no reason to use your flashlight if youre scared of dying also only like 3-5% of the players have nvg according to the devs..

You obviously still don't get it. You might want to actually read entire posts before replying.

please explain to me how they defeat the purpose of night...unless the purpose of night is to let everyone know where you are with flares...a sniper is still going to kill you even without nvg or thermal if youre throwing flares or chemlights.

That's how it should be. They shouldn't be able to see you unless you give away your position, nobody should. That's the part I said is balanced. Night is supposed to be dark and frightening. Nightvision completely cancels both of those aspects out, they are easymode of nighttime play and that is what sucks the fun out of it. It also pretty much makes all other illuminating items almost completely worthless and detours players from playing at night because they don't have it.

Thermal just needs to be straight up removed, it's plain stupid.

Snipers can already see everything with Thermal or Nightvision + DMR. Without night vision they could only see those who give away their position or when they're working with a group that illuminates the combat area.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Psychobob

[BobDole (DayZ) 129]

You obviously still don't get it. You might want to actually read entire posts before replying.

That's how it should be. They shouldn't be able to see you unless you give away your position, nobody should. That's the part I said is balanced. Night is supposed to be dark and frightening. Nightvision completely cancels both of those aspects out, they are easymode of nighttime play and that is what sucks the fun out of it. It also pretty much makes all other illuminating items almost completely worthless and detours players from playing at night because they don't have it.

Thermal just needs to be straight up removed, it's just plain stupid.

i dont think you understand, you have no reasons to why they should be removed only cause you think theyre stupid...which they arent, they increase your chances of survival at night or with thermal during the day..also theyre extremely rare...everyday i come on the forums i see some kids whining about the extremely rare gear in the game..what would be the point of this game if there wasnt extremely rare items that would help you survive longer? hell, lets just remove all the items that increase someones chance of survivial and just spawn with lees with unlimited ammo and unlimited flares..its not unbalanced the game is about finding better gear to help you survive if you cant realize that or odnt like it go play something else.

[Zymi 64]

I agree. Only if they fix the gamma exploit though, otherwise it's pointless.

[Psychobob 155]

i dont think you understand, you have no reasons to why they should be removed only cause you think theyre stupid...which they arent, they increase your chances of survival at night or with thermal during the day..also theyre extremely rare...everyday i come on the forums i see some kids whining about the extremely rare gear in the game..what would be the point of this game if there wasnt extremely rare items that would help you survive longer? hell, lets just remove all the items that increase someones chance of survivial and just spawn with lees with unlimited ammo and unlimited flares..its not unbalanced the game is about finding better gear to help you survive if you cant realize that or odnt like it go play something else.

Just because an item is rare doesn't mean it's not overpowered and/or doesn't defeat the goal of the game. Thermal is a garbage mechanic and needs to be removed, you are near invincible once you have one and that isn't survival. It's just to much. The game is supposed to be a fight for survival, Nightvision removes pretty much all of the fight from the equation. Nightvision defeats the purpose of playing at night as well as making all of the illumination items near worthless. Nightvision coupled with the poor flashlight system detours players from wanting to play on servers that are night.

I also personally think they makes the game FAR more boring, try playing at night using only flares, chemlights and flashlights or drive using only headlights. It's WAY more interesting, scary and just plain beautiful than using nightvision.

Thermal and Nightvision subtract from the overall goal of the game which is fighting for survival. They make it far to easy, which is why they need to be removed. Keeping Nightvision on the rangefinder doesn't produce the same effect as NVGs or Nightvision weapons. It only adds balance for players who want to be snipers/scouts at night.

Flashlights need to be changed before removing nightvision is really an option though, which is why I suggested it changes for it. We need to be able to use them with EVERY secondary weapon. A headlamp item could be added that produces a much dimmer light than the normal flashlight but could be used with all weapons. All flashlights should require batteries which could be added to pretty much every loot table.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Psychobob

[Psychobob 155]

I agree. Only if they fix the gamma exploit though, otherwise it's pointless.

There are a plethora of simple and complex exploits that need to be fixed. Most, if not all, of them will be fixed in the standalone.

[Golgo82 28]

Headlamps (using a NVG/Bino/Rangefinder Slot)

YES

Removing anything whatsoever

NO

Adding a battery-lifetime system for electronic devices (Flashlight, NVG, Thermal/NV Optics, Headlamps, GPS)

YES

[GexAlmighty 54]

I totally agree.

PS. I also find it easier to read that dark green than i do the grey, so you aren't the only one.

[vfig 33]

I agree that flashlights need to be buffed, and NVGs/L85s need to be nerfed. Not sure total removal makes sense.

If batteries are required for flashlights, NVGs, L85s, then there needs to be common batteries for flashlights, and rare batteries for the other equipment.

[kebman 213]

IMO:

• NVG: Remove it, or at least nerf it with either batteries, or make them work only in "bino" mode
  
• Thermal: Remove it completely. It's just unfair and takes the edge away - although it's quite fun to try
  
• Headlamps: Yes, please implement!
  
• Flashlights: Fix flailing while running, also make them possible to use while holding a gun (possibly with slightly worsened aim)
  

Having NVG's work only in bino-mode would actually help cooperative groups, as you could have a spotter with you, and then the rest would have to rely on him. Otherwise, it would be ineffective for anything else than careful scouting at night. This is far better and more challenging then the kind of boring God Mode you get by permanent NVG's at night.

I'm really against batteries of any kind. It only makes gameplay frustrating. The life of flashlights and headlamps has only grown and grown with the advent of tech such as LED, and so on. I think it's better for gameplay to assume that they just work forever, or at least until the next time you find a similar battery-powered item. In any case, flashlights would have to be used sparingly given the nature of this game, thus lengthening battery-time. Also, in with NVG's in bino-mode, also the NVG would be used more sparingly, only when it's time to scout or spot.

However I would love for flashlights to have a kind of blinding effect (though much less than in BF3). I don't think it has ATM. At least up close and at night/in doors.

Edited August 15, 2012 by kebman

[snipes (DayZ) 12]

My thinking with the thermal is that it's a perfect fit for the game.

I do like the gun but it isn't the ultimate gun for a few reasons which I will explain. it can't see through buildings or bushes or trees which means you can hide from it. if you spot someone with the gun you will be sneaking up on them and hiding if they look at you.

Most people who hate the L85 are the snipers that sit in well known areas shooting at everyone, the reason they hate it is because it forces them to move or be seen.

The gun is basically useless at long range as the zeroing is great but it takes a few bullets over that sort of distance to do anything that wouldn't give you time to hide behind a tree and recover. At short range the constant zoom of the gun becomes a hinderance rather than a help if you are moving quickly it will be hard for the l85 guy to keep up with you properly with the scope.

People act as if the thermal sights are on the holder constantly, if the player is running they aren't using it if the player is walking they aren't using it if the player is in their inventory they wont see you. The only time they will see you is if they are actively looking for people in which case you are probably hiding somewhere like the hill on Stary or the hill in Elektro and IMO you deserve what you get.

As with all the guns there are counter strategies and ways to avoid it. It should stay definitely.

Also the night vision has to stay. It's so good at night on nightime servers but again there are counters to it. Throw a flare between you and a guy with NV and you have plenty of time while he is blinded or having to adjust his vision to get away or kill him.

shine a torch at a guy with NV you get the same effect. Had some great fun doing that when I didn't have NV and the guy i was stalking did.

Edited August 15, 2012 by snipes

[Bludy 324]

you can already use military flashlight on the shoulder...and nvg is amazing. i agree with thermal, it should be removed

[euryale 72]

Assassin's creed avatar: okay, you're not going to say anything that'll ever make the slightest impact in my life.

/thread

[antiskub2.0 17]

rolling with your friends at night with only flashlights and some flares to guide you can be really exciting and tense.

hacking needs to be dealt with first before we can really get a feel for how the spawn rates effect things

prioritys:

1. nip hacking/duping in the butt.

2. minimize loss of gear to bugs and such.

3. analyze stats and behavior and adjust spawn rates accordingly.

[bazbake 456]

you can already use military flashlight on the shoulder...

Unless something changed in the last two days, I have yet to see this option.

Flashlights should be accessable just like chemlights, from the F inventory while holding a weapon. Most flashlights don't weigh any more than flares.

If this doesn't change, then flashlights should be wieldable as maglights since they're supposedly just as heavy. That way we can kill zombies in the middle of the night.

Definitely need to change the flashlight animation. Why can I walk while aiming a rifle but I can't walk while aiming a flashlight? This violates any concept of reality and seems to be put in just to make life harder for new players. (Same with all the horrible pistol animations and limitations...who exactly is this game supposed to be hard for?)

[DR@GON (DayZ) 20]

- you cannot pin flashlights to shoulder in "offical dayz" - this is on Lingor Island version, would be cool to see it added

@snipes... the problem with hiding indoors from thermal is, any building you hide in will spawn zeds, and give your presence away, especially to thermal at night, because you might not have seen 1 thermal object showing up while scanning, but you're certainly gonna see all the zeds, and zeds dont spawn on their own.

If thermal isn't removed, than it's range should be nerfed, making it hard to pick up signatures past 500-600 meters maybe (I don't know if this is realistic to the way thermal really works tho). That and batteries should be worth a shot before outright removing them. However, the mod can only do so much and outright removal might be the only option. I think NVGs make night time ops interesting enough without thermal personally

Good news - in one of the ARMA3 showcase videos on youtube, the host mentioned a "modular weapon system", I look forward to this for many reasons, but attaching a flashlight to guns w/ a rail system is on topic for this thread... I imagine they would be one of the most common attachment items.

Edited August 15, 2012 by DR@GON

[Psychobob 155]

Headlamps (using a NVG/Bino/Rangefinder Slot)

YES

Removing anything whatsoever

NO

Adding a battery-lifetime system for electronic devices (Flashlight, NVG, Thermal/NV Optics, Headlamps, GPS)

YES

Thermal and NVGs/ Nightvision weapons need to be removed otherwise there is no reason to add headlamps or change the way flashlights work. The who point of removing them is to improve, balance and remain true to the theme of the game, Thermal and Nightvision fail to do that.

[Psychobob 155]

IMO:

• NVG: Remove it, or at least nerf it with either batteries, or make them work only in "bino" mode
  
• Thermal: Remove it completely. It's just unfair and takes the edge away - although it's quite fun to try
  
• Headlamps: Yes, please implement!
  
• Flashlights: Fix flailing while running, also make them possible to use while holding a gun (possibly with slightly worsened aim)
  

Having NVG's work only in bino-mode would actually help cooperative groups, as you could have a spotter with you, and then the rest would have to rely on him. Otherwise, it would be ineffective for anything else than careful scouting at night. This is far better and more challenging then the kind of boring God Mode you get by permanent NVG's at night.

I'm really against batteries of any kind. It only makes gameplay frustrating. The life of flashlights and headlamps has only grown and grown with the advent of tech such as LED, and so on. I think it's better for gameplay to assume that they just work forever, or at least until the next time you find a similar battery-powered item. In any case, flashlights would have to be used sparingly given the nature of this game, thus lengthening battery-time. Also, in with NVG's in bino-mode, also the NVG would be used more sparingly, only when it's time to scout or spot.

However I would love for flashlights to have a kind of blinding effect (though much less than in BF3). I don't think it has ATM. At least up close and at night/in doors.

NVGs and Nightvision weapon scopes should be removed but Nightvision should be kept on the rangefinder, it is a tool designed for scouting and it is also a type of binocular. It should also require batteries to use the nightvision aspect of them.

[Psychobob 155]

Assassin's creed avatar: okay, you're not going to say anything that'll ever make the slightest impact in my life.

/thread

The flaw with this is that I've contributed more than you have. You see how that works? Probably not.

[Psychobob 155]

My thinking with the thermal is that it's a perfect fit for the game.

I do like the gun but it isn't the ultimate gun for a few reasons which I will explain. it can't see through buildings or bushes or trees which means you can hide from it. if you spot someone with the gun you will be sneaking up on them and hiding if they look at you.

Most people who hate the L85 are the snipers that sit in well known areas shooting at everyone, the reason they hate it is because it forces them to move or be seen.

The gun is basically useless at long range as the zeroing is great but it takes a few bullets over that sort of distance to do anything that wouldn't give you time to hide behind a tree and recover. At short range the constant zoom of the gun becomes a hinderance rather than a help if you are moving quickly it will be hard for the l85 guy to keep up with you properly with the scope.

People act as if the thermal sights are on the holder constantly, if the player is running they aren't using it if the player is walking they aren't using it if the player is in their inventory they wont see you. The only time they will see you is if they are actively looking for people in which case you are probably hiding somewhere like the hill on Stary or the hill in Elektro and IMO you deserve what you get.

As with all the guns there are counter strategies and ways to avoid it. It should stay definitely.

Also the night vision has to stay. It's so good at night on nightime servers but again there are counters to it. Throw a flare between you and a guy with NV and you have plenty of time while he is blinded or having to adjust his vision to get away or kill him.

shine a torch at a guy with NV you get the same effect. Had some great fun doing that when I didn't have NV and the guy i was stalking did.

The problem with hiding from players is that they can easily remove files from their game and see/shoot through whatever they want with no consequences unless an admin monitors their server like a hawk 24/7. Thermal makes that especially bad.

Thermal is just completely unneeded as a mechanic in DayZ. It takes away from the fear and fight for survival which is the biggest reason it needs to be removed. I use the L85 when I go sniper hunting and I find it extremely boring and easy. I won't even use it in any other situation because of how boring it makes everything.

[Psychobob 155]

- you cannot pin flashlights to shoulder in "offical dayz" - this is on Lingor Island version, would be cool to see it added

@snipes... the problem with hiding indoors from thermal is, any building you hide in will spawn zeds, and give your presence away, especially to thermal at night, because you might not have seen 1 thermal object showing up while scanning, but you're certainly gonna see all the zeds, and zeds dont spawn on their own.

If thermal isn't removed, than it's range should be nerfed, making it hard to pick up signatures past 500-600 meters maybe (I don't know if this is realistic to the way thermal really works tho). That and batteries should be worth a shot before outright removing them. However, the mod can only do so much and outright removal might be the only option. I think NVGs make night time ops interesting enough without thermal personally

Good news - in one of the ARMA3 showcase videos on youtube, the host mentioned a "modular weapon system", I look forward to this for many reasons, but attaching a flashlight to guns w/ a rail system is on topic for this thread... I imagine they would be one of the most common attachment items.

Modular weapons are the the best way to go, it should always be like that. You find a base weapon then you find the attachments you want and built the gun you want. DayZ standalone is going to be improving a TON of the aspects that the mod has currently, the game engine is one of them.

[leckarsch 3]

lol, when i start a thread like this, i only get flame ..

http://dayzmod.com/f...9487-nvgs-imba/

Edited August 15, 2012 by leckarsch

[Diabolic Tutor 2]

Remove the thermal scoperifles...

*edit*

Or that battery idea on those, not like 5 hour lifetime on the batteries.

and i that weapon modification would be superb

Edited August 15, 2012 by Diabolic Tutor

[Psychobob 155]

lol, when i start a thread like this, i only get flame ..

http://dayzmod.com/f...9487-nvgs-imba/

Suggestions have to be designed to maintain the theme/goal of the game, keeping it balanced for everyone and making it more fun, if they accomplish this then people who disagree and/or make suggestions are helping to improve and contribute. People who flame are obvious morons and there will always be at least one. When they flame and don't contribute to the discussion, they are wasting everyone's time and not helping to improve the game. This is a major reason 99.9% of games nowadays are so terrible, good suggestions get stamped out by morons because it's not what they personally want and they don't care about the rest of the players or the game as a whole. It's best to just ignore em. Just stick with your idea and keep it alive, listen to the things people say and contribute to them, create an actual discussion.

We're all here to improve the game for everyone, not just ourselves.

[Dianeces 2]

Thermal and NVGs/ Nightvision weapons need to be removed otherwise there is no reason to add headlamps or change the way flashlights work. The who point of removing them is to improve, balance and remain true to the theme of the game, Thermal and Nightvision fail to do that.

Okay. Finally figured out why you would post this and what your problem was. You are trying to balance DayZ. Rocket has explicitly said that DayZ is not supposed to be balanced. Not all options are, or even ought to be, equally valid. It is possible to play at night only using flares, chem lights and flashlights. That is a method, and a valid one; another, more valid method of playing at night is to use NVGs for those fortunate enough to have them. They allow you to see as well as avoid exposing yourself. That this is "unfair" to those without is of no concern because it isn't supposed to be fair in the first place. You have built up this fantasy land notion that everybody should be on equal footing simply because you don't think it fits. Your sole reason for requesting this change is because you think it's unfair; by all means, feel free to come up with other reasons to propose this, but be aware that any sort of reason that references balacing is invalid.

[Psychobob 155]

Okay. Finally figured out why you would post this and what your problem was. You are trying to balance DayZ. Rocket has explicitly said that DayZ is not supposed to be balanced. Not all options are, or even ought to be, equally valid. It is possible to play at night only using flares, chem lights and flashlights. That is a method, and a valid one; another, more valid method of playing at night is to use NVGs for those fortunate enough to have them. They allow you to see as well as avoid exposing yourself. That this is "unfair" to those without is of no concern because it isn't supposed to be fair in the first place. You have built up this fantasy land notion that everybody should be on equal footing simply because you don't think it fits. Your sole reason for requesting this change is because you think it's unfair; by all means, feel free to come up with other reasons to propose this, but be aware that any sort of reason that references balacing is invalid.

Yes, it's sorta possible to play at night without nightvision but the system needs to be improved. There are plenty of mechanics other than nightvision and since nightvision doesn't fit with the theme of difficult survival and fear, it should be removed. Balance gained by removing them is just a positive side effect. All nightvision needs to be removed except from the rangefinder. NVGs and Weapons also deter players from wanting to play at night. If they were removed and the flashlight mechanic was improved more people would stick to a server even after it got dark.

The Rangefinder having nightvision doesn't have the same effect as NVGs or Nightvision weapons because they don't remove from the fear or difficulty of playing at night. They are needed by snipers to effectively play as a scout and assist with sniping at night without offering much of a combat advantage. You can't travel using the nightvision on the Rangefinder and you can't easily acquire and kill targets using only the rangefinder, you would only be aware of their presence.

Thermal removes pretty much all difficulty when interacting with any hostile living creature, which is why it should just be removed. It doesn't really matter how rare it is, thermal will always produce the same effect in the DayZ universe. They are just too much, they are practically an invincibility item in the right(or wrong) hands.

Balance is never and invalid reason. The game has to maintain some sort of balance or it will fall.